I have learned to accept that those on the left never accept reality, all people are vulnerable except bastards with more money than them and that no one on benefits ever deceives the state and more importantly, everyone is deserving of what they have even if they're not! That is why the country is up shit creek and the Labour party are imploding.
Its not because they can walk. It's due to the change of criteria from DLA to PIP. They changed the walking criteria from 50m to 20m to get the enhanced rate. That's why so many are losing out. Plus the fact that the assessments aren't accurate enough.
Get your facts right before making a smart arse comment.
My facts were correct as it is about walking - I have seen enough of your complaining about your benfefits being reduced to know why this is being done.
There is no reason why you/they can't buy and run their own car as others do, but they got used to having a new car every few years with no running costs.
If the young woman I know of is one of them then good. How she ever got a car in the first place is beyond any understanding. She says it's because an operation on her leg years ago yet she uses her car to go out clubbing.
Have you reported her for fraud to the DWP giving the reason you believe she is claiming fraudulently, that she claims she can't walk very far but goes out clubbing by which I assume you mean she can dance?
One of my customers has had an operation on her ankle and uses a mobilty scooter. She doesn't drive but was eligible for a motability car which she got, even though she doesn't drive. She told the authorities her son was her carer and that she needed the car so he could drive her around. She lives in West Berkshire. Her son lives in Southampton! She said "well, my son can't afford a car of his own."
Have you reported her for fraud to the Motability scheme?
I have learned to accept that those on the left never accept reality, all people are vulnerable except bastards with more money than them and that no one on benefits ever deceives the state and more importantly, everyone is deserving of what they have even if they're not! That is why the country is up shit creek and the Labour party are imploding.
This country is up shit creek it strikes me because posters on the right are aware of fraudsters but it seems are failing to report them. Why do posters on the right not find fraud unacceptable to the point they actually notify the DWP and motability scheme as appropriate. Why are they willing to be so tolerant of dishonesty committed by people they know. Since benefit fraud is actually rare how come posters on the right actually know fraudsters. And why do they think dishonesty is widespread.
I don't know anyone committing benefit fraud and if I did I would without hesitation notify the DWP or motability as appropriate. But then I find fraud unacceptable.
You could never self assess. If you could, then every claim would be successful (most claims were turned down) and every claimant would get both higher rate mobility and care. The vast majority don't get both higher rates (15% of working age recipients do). You always had to provide GP and consultant details on the claim form. I always collect copies of any health related correspondence and send them with the claim forms. I did not need a face to face for either DLA or PIP as the evidence I sent in (from 10+ different sources) was enough. That does not mean that I self assessed. All decisions are done by the DWP decision maker.
A staggering 6 out of 10 cases that go to appeal at tribunal are overturned but that only partly addresses the unfairness as the new 20 metre rule for higher rate mobility is ridiculously harsh imo, so a seriously disabled person with almost no mobility can still not meet the PIP criteria.
Re reviews, under DLA most had indefinite awards although others had awards for a defined period. I would assume that indefinite awards were only made to those where there was no realistic chance of recovery, although obviously I don't have access to the DWP's assessment decisions. Under PIP the maximum award is 10 years, which I don't have a huge issue with.
Sorry, I've just reread the report. It doesn't say self assess, it says they complete their own application. My mistake.
My facts were correct as it is about walking - I have seen enough of your complaining about your benfefits being reduced to know why this is being done.
There is no reason why you/they can't buy and run their own car as others do, but they got used to having a new car every few years with no running costs.
Motability was set up as a charity so it could also raise funds and make grants, in order to provide Scheme customers with a complete mobility package, even if their allowance would not cover the type of car and adaptations that they needed.. So people who get the high rate mobility give the PIP or DLA over to Motability to lease a car. And its Motability policy to change cars every few years as they have a better resale value to them
Must admit don't really know how Motability works, does the car owner make a contribution to owning the vehicle?, who pays the servicing costs?, and how long does/can the owner keep the vehicle?, sorry so many questions
It's pretty shocking but not suprising. The whole point of PIP is to save money. How the DWP can say PIP is fairer, when so many genuine disabled are losing out is beyond me.
It's all very well for the disabled minister saying people can appeal, they lose the car anyway and it's a waste of taxpayers money if the decision was wrong first time, thus costing the taxpayer double.
I was always taught that quality is getting it right first time, the percentage of error in all these reforms prioves tat this is more than incompetence, it is a wilful plan to cause harm to disabled people
If the young woman I know of is one of them then good. How she ever got a car in the first place is beyond any understanding. She says it's because an operation on her leg years ago yet she uses her car to go out clubbing.
Have you noticed how when ordinary people are found to be defrauding the tax payer, action is taken, but when rich people are found defrauding us of millions, be they tax dodgers, bankers and the like, it's rare that any action is taken. Sometimes there's negotiation to decide what penalty they should pay, while the disabled have to appeal to a tribunal.
Some bloke said 'we're all in this together', but he was only joking.
If the young woman I know of is one of them then good. How she ever got a car in the first place is beyond any understanding. She says it's because an operation on her leg years ago yet she uses her car to go out clubbing.
My facts were correct as it is about walking - I have seen enough of your complaining about your benfefits being reduced to know why this is being done.
There is no reason why you/they can't buy and run their own car as others do, but they got used to having a new car every few years with no running costs.
Shows your total ignorance about disability when even 50m is quite a short distance. You think only bring able to walk 50m makes people walk normally?
You also forget that a lot of disabled people drive with adaptions which are very expensive. These aren't affordable to people on low income. Motability fit these for free.
I've never mentioned that my benefits are reduced. I haven't even been assessed for PIP yet. Not that it's any of your business.
The only reason they changed DLA to PIP is to save the Government money. It had nothing to do with fraud.
14000 people out of 650,000 also arent the majority.
2% are losing their entitlement.
Not true. As per the government impact assessment, around 280,000 who qualify for the higher rate mobility component in 2015/16 will lose it by the time the migration from DLA has been completed. Around 1 in 3 recipients of the higher rate mobility component use the Motability scheme. That is not the majority but is obviously a very large number of people (more than 25%) with very serious disabilities that will lose out with most going onto the lower rate, which does not qualify for Motability.
Have you reported her for fraud to the DWP giving the reason you believe she is claiming fraudulently, that she claims she can't walk very far but goes out clubbing by which I assume you mean she can dance?
Have you reported her for fraud to the Motability scheme?
This country is up shit creek it strikes me because posters on the right are aware of fraudsters but it seems are failing to report them. Why do posters on the right not find fraud unacceptable to the point they actually notify the DWP and motability scheme as appropriate. Why are they willing to be so tolerant of dishonesty committed by people they know. Since benefit fraud is actually rare how come posters on the right actually know fraudsters. And why do they think dishonesty is widespread.
I don't know anyone committing benefit fraud and if I did I would without hesitation notify the DWP or motability as appropriate. But then I find fraud unacceptable.
I assume it is because these are the sort of people the right wingers mix with, their friends and family even sometimes the posters themselves. If I knew someone was acting fraudulently they would not stay a friend for long and I would definitely see it as my duty to report it and not to be in collusion with criminals
If the BBC article is correct, it implies that under DLA you could self assess and once you got the allowance there was no review.
I find it hard to believe that any government would introduce a process like that and makes any effort to reform difficult because you have a large number of people who gain a sense of entitlement.
I feel sorry for anybody who has lost a benefit they need and I hope the appeal process sorts them out.
DLA (and PIP) have you fill in a form with details of your condition as the first step of the claim process.
It was then assessed by the DWP who would look at additional information such as your medical records, an assessment by an independent person and then they would make a decision.
It would be reassessed on average every 2-5 years depending on the condition and how likely it was to change (there is little point doing yearly reassessments for something that is only going to get worse short of a miracle).
One of the nastier myths about DLA that a lot of papers and politicians liked to push, was that it was easy to get and never checked up on.
The reality is that the forms ran to something like 30+ pages of questions (which were often enough to put off seriously ill people from completing them), then medical evidence, a medical assessment (often by someone with little knowledge of you condition so likely to underestiment the problems you had).
Very few people got it for an "indefinite" period, and in some ways the "indefinite" awards were worse than short term ones, as an indefinite award could be reassessed at any time.
Motability was set up as a charity so it could also raise funds and make grants, in order to provide Scheme customers with a complete mobility package, even if their allowance would not cover the type of car and adaptations that they needed.. So people who get the high rate mobility give the PIP or DLA over to Motability to lease a car. And its Motability policy to change cars every few years as they have a better resale value to them
And now they are going to check who really needs them and who should buy and run their own car.
Some were upset when the government set up this car tax checking site as it showed they had a mobilty car and they they didn't want to be careful around their neighbours. It didn't casue a problem for the genuine claimants though. https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax
And now they are going to check who really needs them and who should buy and run their own car.
No they are not going to check who needs them, the peoples disability has not changed or got better, the government has just move the goal posts again, and we will have to see if this means some of the people losing there job
Must admit don't really know how Motability works, does the car owner make a contribution to owning the vehicle?, who pays the servicing costs?, and how long does/can the owner keep the vehicle?, sorry so many questions
Motorbility is only available to people who have been awarded DLA/PIP for the mobility component at the higher rate.
Basically it is a lease scheme for the car where in return for you handing over most/all of your DLA/PIP mobility money you got a car.
Many people never grasped that, and it was not helped by politicians and the news papers basically given very distorted information about it when trying to make it seem like a waste, or that it was being abused.
For example on the Scheme you used to be able to get all sorts of cars, ranging from a Corsa to a high end BMW.
However, and this is something a lot of people never realise, you never own the car and for anything other than a cheap/basic car you usually had to put a non refundable upfront payment towards it.
So if you wanted a nicer car you might have had to pay £5k+ upfront, then the whole of your mobility allowance, and at the end of the lease the car went back and you were left back at square one (minus whatever the upfront payment was).
The cars are usually on 3 year leases.
Usually the Motobility leases worked out at a break even, or profit for the scheme regardless of the car model as the total depreciation of the car was worked out in advance and the upfront paymen + monthly payments covered that.
Because of the fuss about "scroungers given new Merc's" etc, the scheme pulled a lot of models, which in some cases was a problem as depending on the disability you can find that you need very specific cars or features (it can be cheaper to buy a much more expensive car that will do straight off, than to buy a cheaper car and adapt it).
For example I know people that had to go with things like Zafira's over Astra's because despite them being based on the same chassis, the Zafira was taller and thus easier to get into (it also had far more boot space, a big concern if you have a wheelchair).
Remember PIP and DLA are not means tested benefits - they are intended to cover the additional costs of living that come with being disabled, so for example as an able bodied person a car is often a bonus, for a disabled person a car (or mobility scooter) might be an absolute essential as you can't even reach public transport.
Or if you didn't get a car, you might be spending the money on taxi's etc (although the level of the mobility component didn't pay for many taxi's).
It's a great scheme if you're disabled and need a car but can't afford it otherwise, however it means you're always at the mercy of the government's ever changing policies for disability, and very much at the mercy of decision makers who have little if any medical training (and from the experience of a couple of friends very little ability to understand basic letters and reports from their own medical staff), the car can be taken away from you whilst you're still fighting a decision.
One of my friends used to have a motorbility car, and when they lost it due to incompetence at the DWP they were screwed. However when about 12 months later they finally to to a tribunal and won they had enough money from the backdated award to outright buy a reasonable car.
Over the next 5-7 years they saved most of the DLA and then bought a brand new car straight out when they needed a new one. Unfortunately if you need a lot of adaptations that option isn't open.
If the young woman I know of is one of them then good. How she ever got a car in the first place is beyond any understanding. She says it's because an operation on her leg years ago yet she uses her car to go out clubbing.
Father in-law had a stroke, mother in-law got a car for 12 years until he died, he sat in it about 3 times a year .
No they are not going to check who needs them, the peoples disability has not changed or got better, the government has just move the goal posts again,
so that only those who really need them, get them.
so that only those who really need them, get them.
Why can't they buy their own car? Other people who use their car to get to work, buy their own car.
As i said moving the goalposts . It's due to the change of criteria from DLA to PIP. They changed the walking criteria from 50m to 20m to get the enhanced rate. So nothing to do with there disability changing or getting better
so that only those who really need them, get them.
Why can't they buy their own car? Other people who use their car to get to work, buy their own car.
Defined "who really needs them"
At the rate the government is going it's pretty much going to be only those in Iron Lungs (and then the argument will be "why do they need to get out").
If you're disabled enough to get DLA under the old rules you pretty much had no option but to have assistance to get around, or some form of mobility aid be it a car or motorised wheelchair (or both).
This isn't a lifestyle choice to get a car, but it being essential to any ability to get out of the house without massive assistance.
And it's not just about getting to work, but little things like getting to medical appointments, basic mobility as you can't get out on foot/bike.
The government is going to be in for a nasty shock if they suddenly find that mobility scheme users are resorting to things like hospital transport.
Comments
CBB is dire this year.:o
Well, it's not serious, but knowing this government, their supporters and the press it's bound to become policy the way things are are going
Stop the whinging and report it simple
My facts were correct as it is about walking - I have seen enough of your complaining about your benfefits being reduced to know why this is being done.
There is no reason why you/they can't buy and run their own car as others do, but they got used to having a new car every few years with no running costs.
Have you reported her for fraud to the Motability scheme?
This country is up shit creek it strikes me because posters on the right are aware of fraudsters but it seems are failing to report them. Why do posters on the right not find fraud unacceptable to the point they actually notify the DWP and motability scheme as appropriate. Why are they willing to be so tolerant of dishonesty committed by people they know. Since benefit fraud is actually rare how come posters on the right actually know fraudsters. And why do they think dishonesty is widespread.
I don't know anyone committing benefit fraud and if I did I would without hesitation notify the DWP or motability as appropriate. But then I find fraud unacceptable.
Sorry, I've just reread the report. It doesn't say self assess, it says they complete their own application. My mistake.
If these hypothetical fraudsters even exist. Which I suspect most of them don't.
Motability was set up as a charity so it could also raise funds and make grants, in order to provide Scheme customers with a complete mobility package, even if their allowance would not cover the type of car and adaptations that they needed.. So people who get the high rate mobility give the PIP or DLA over to Motability to lease a car. And its Motability policy to change cars every few years as they have a better resale value to them
It's paid for from a person's mobility allowance.
http://www.motability.co.uk/understanding-the-scheme/allowances/
I was always taught that quality is getting it right first time, the percentage of error in all these reforms prioves tat this is more than incompetence, it is a wilful plan to cause harm to disabled people
Have you noticed how when ordinary people are found to be defrauding the tax payer, action is taken, but when rich people are found defrauding us of millions, be they tax dodgers, bankers and the like, it's rare that any action is taken. Sometimes there's negotiation to decide what penalty they should pay, while the disabled have to appeal to a tribunal.
Some bloke said 'we're all in this together', but he was only joking.
14000 people out of 650,000 also arent the majority.
2% are losing their entitlement.
Have you reported her?
You also forget that a lot of disabled people drive with adaptions which are very expensive. These aren't affordable to people on low income. Motability fit these for free.
I've never mentioned that my benefits are reduced. I haven't even been assessed for PIP yet. Not that it's any of your business.
The only reason they changed DLA to PIP is to save the Government money. It had nothing to do with fraud.
Not true. As per the government impact assessment, around 280,000 who qualify for the higher rate mobility component in 2015/16 will lose it by the time the migration from DLA has been completed. Around 1 in 3 recipients of the higher rate mobility component use the Motability scheme. That is not the majority but is obviously a very large number of people (more than 25%) with very serious disabilities that will lose out with most going onto the lower rate, which does not qualify for Motability.
I assume it is because these are the sort of people the right wingers mix with, their friends and family even sometimes the posters themselves. If I knew someone was acting fraudulently they would not stay a friend for long and I would definitely see it as my duty to report it and not to be in collusion with criminals
DLA (and PIP) have you fill in a form with details of your condition as the first step of the claim process.
It was then assessed by the DWP who would look at additional information such as your medical records, an assessment by an independent person and then they would make a decision.
It would be reassessed on average every 2-5 years depending on the condition and how likely it was to change (there is little point doing yearly reassessments for something that is only going to get worse short of a miracle).
One of the nastier myths about DLA that a lot of papers and politicians liked to push, was that it was easy to get and never checked up on.
The reality is that the forms ran to something like 30+ pages of questions (which were often enough to put off seriously ill people from completing them), then medical evidence, a medical assessment (often by someone with little knowledge of you condition so likely to underestiment the problems you had).
Very few people got it for an "indefinite" period, and in some ways the "indefinite" awards were worse than short term ones, as an indefinite award could be reassessed at any time.
And now they are going to check who really needs them and who should buy and run their own car.
Some were upset when the government set up this car tax checking site as it showed they had a mobilty car and they they didn't want to be careful around their neighbours. It didn't casue a problem for the genuine claimants though.
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax
No they are not going to check who needs them, the peoples disability has not changed or got better, the government has just move the goal posts again, and we will have to see if this means some of the people losing there job
Motorbility is only available to people who have been awarded DLA/PIP for the mobility component at the higher rate.
Basically it is a lease scheme for the car where in return for you handing over most/all of your DLA/PIP mobility money you got a car.
Many people never grasped that, and it was not helped by politicians and the news papers basically given very distorted information about it when trying to make it seem like a waste, or that it was being abused.
For example on the Scheme you used to be able to get all sorts of cars, ranging from a Corsa to a high end BMW.
However, and this is something a lot of people never realise, you never own the car and for anything other than a cheap/basic car you usually had to put a non refundable upfront payment towards it.
So if you wanted a nicer car you might have had to pay £5k+ upfront, then the whole of your mobility allowance, and at the end of the lease the car went back and you were left back at square one (minus whatever the upfront payment was).
The cars are usually on 3 year leases.
Usually the Motobility leases worked out at a break even, or profit for the scheme regardless of the car model as the total depreciation of the car was worked out in advance and the upfront paymen + monthly payments covered that.
Because of the fuss about "scroungers given new Merc's" etc, the scheme pulled a lot of models, which in some cases was a problem as depending on the disability you can find that you need very specific cars or features (it can be cheaper to buy a much more expensive car that will do straight off, than to buy a cheaper car and adapt it).
For example I know people that had to go with things like Zafira's over Astra's because despite them being based on the same chassis, the Zafira was taller and thus easier to get into (it also had far more boot space, a big concern if you have a wheelchair).
Remember PIP and DLA are not means tested benefits - they are intended to cover the additional costs of living that come with being disabled, so for example as an able bodied person a car is often a bonus, for a disabled person a car (or mobility scooter) might be an absolute essential as you can't even reach public transport.
Or if you didn't get a car, you might be spending the money on taxi's etc (although the level of the mobility component didn't pay for many taxi's).
It's a great scheme if you're disabled and need a car but can't afford it otherwise, however it means you're always at the mercy of the government's ever changing policies for disability, and very much at the mercy of decision makers who have little if any medical training (and from the experience of a couple of friends very little ability to understand basic letters and reports from their own medical staff), the car can be taken away from you whilst you're still fighting a decision.
One of my friends used to have a motorbility car, and when they lost it due to incompetence at the DWP they were screwed. However when about 12 months later they finally to to a tribunal and won they had enough money from the backdated award to outright buy a reasonable car.
Over the next 5-7 years they saved most of the DLA and then bought a brand new car straight out when they needed a new one. Unfortunately if you need a lot of adaptations that option isn't open.
Father in-law had a stroke, mother in-law got a car for 12 years until he died, he sat in it about 3 times a year .
so that only those who really need them, get them.
Why can't they buy their own car? Other people who use their car to get to work, buy their own car.
Disabled people are also more likely to occur other costs due to their disability, so might not afford to buy their own car.
Explain how the 20m rule is fair, when 50m isn't a particular long distance either?
As i said moving the goalposts . It's due to the change of criteria from DLA to PIP. They changed the walking criteria from 50m to 20m to get the enhanced rate. So nothing to do with there disability changing or getting better
Defined "who really needs them"
At the rate the government is going it's pretty much going to be only those in Iron Lungs (and then the argument will be "why do they need to get out").
If you're disabled enough to get DLA under the old rules you pretty much had no option but to have assistance to get around, or some form of mobility aid be it a car or motorised wheelchair (or both).
This isn't a lifestyle choice to get a car, but it being essential to any ability to get out of the house without massive assistance.
And it's not just about getting to work, but little things like getting to medical appointments, basic mobility as you can't get out on foot/bike.
The government is going to be in for a nasty shock if they suddenly find that mobility scheme users are resorting to things like hospital transport.