Apart from it being a bit of a trek over to the states. Are there any real problems with becoming a state within the USA, rather than becoming a state in the EU?
None at all...except since we keep being told India/China/Brazil are the solution to all our economic problems why don't we apply to be a state within one of them and adopt their laws and customs...
Apart from it being a bit of a trek over to the states. Are there any real problems with becoming a state within the USA, rather than becoming a state in the EU?
The far right of the Conservative Party - I mean the ECONOMIC far right, rather than the 'deport all foreigners/it's all a Zionist plot/bring back hanging/flogging/grammar schools' far right of the Conservative Party have long backed the UK leaving the EU and applying to join the NAFTA - some even going so far as to back the dollarisation of the UK economy.
But no, there's never been a serious proposal for the UK to be the 51st State, though it has felt that like on occasion, particularly when Maggie T was PM.
".., the EU continues its downward economic spiral.
According to the commission’s latest forecasts, published on Monday, the eurozone will be in recession this year, as in each of the past three years.
At the same time, the Commonwealth is growing at 7.2 per cent a year.*
Indeed, every continent in the world is growing except Europe. That is what makes Lord Lawson’s case so persuasive.
Nick Clegg was at it yesterday, preposterously claiming that 'up to three million jobs' depended on the EU.
That figure, which came from a paper by a Brussels-funded London academic more than a decade ago, has been disowned even by its author.*
In any case, it relates to trade with Europe, not to trade dependent on EU membership.*
One of the few jobs that genuinely would disappear is mine, as an MEP.
Norway exports two-and-a-half times as much per head to the EU from outside it as we do from inside; Switzerland four-and-a-half times as much. Both countries are free to sign independent trade accords with non-EU states.*
Switzerland, for example, is negotiating a trade deal with China — something that Britain, bound by the EU’s protectionist common trade policy, cannot do.
You may have noticed that Norway and Switzerland are doing rather well, with low debt, low taxes, low unemployment, low inflation and high growth.*
Small wonder that, in both cases, around 80 per cent of their people prefer the status quo to EU membership.
Seven million Swiss and four million Norwegians, relying on a *series of trade agreements, are able to give their people, respectively, the third-highest and the highest standard of living on the planet.*
Are we supposed to believe that the UK, with a population of 62 million, a maritime nation connected by language and law, commerce and kinship, habit and history to every continent, could not prosper under its own laws? Are we truly so diminished as a people?
Being in the EU doesn't stop us being like Norway or Switzerland.
Thatcher having squandered much of our North Sea oil revenue on the mass long term welfare dependency she created stops us being like Norway and not being the world's tax evaders bank of choice stops us being like Switzerland.
We can still export to China and the Commonwealth - indeed, being in a common trading bloc helps our bargaining position.
They gave us a state of the art sidewinder missile that cold fire at on coming planes for the war...
IIRC - the AIM-9L was already equipped by the FAA. However as part of NATO commitments to maintain suitable war stocks against a possible conflict against the Warsaw Pact - to use these weapons would reduce the war stocks to below the required levels.
The US agreed to loan the UK a portion of their 9-Lima stockpiles in order to get around these treaty obligations.
You're odd, not being able to compete against producers "Dumping" is not a sign of inefficiency but of unfair trade, the likes of which we can much easier withstand as part of a bloc.
What we need is a simple free trade agreement, like the one Iceland has just negotiated with China.
You're odd, not being able to compete against producers "Dumping" is not a sign of inefficiency but of unfair trade, the likes of which we can much easier withstand as part of a bloc.
Sounds so simple, doesn't it?
If the Chinese are really selling solar panels at a loss, surely the best thing we could do would be to buy as many of them as we can get at the price, because they'll never be that cheap again? That would have the effect of driving the Chinese producer (our competitor) out of business and allow us to re-sell the cheap panels at a profit, killing two birds with one stone.
If the Chinese are really selling solar panels at a loss, surely the best thing we could do would be to buy as many of them as we can get at the price, because they'll never be that cheap again? That would have the effect of driving the Chinese producer (our competitor) out of business and allow us to re-sell the cheap panels at a profit, killing two birds with one stone.
You need to look up why dumping is bad for the consumer in the long term, which is why we are lucky we are part of a larger bloc who can stand up to such anticompetitive pricing.
You're odd, not being able to compete against producers "Dumping" is not a sign of inefficiency but of unfair trade, the likes of which we can much easier withstand as part of a bloc.
Sounds so simple, doesn't it?
You haven't answered the question. Why should net contributors subsidise lazy French farmers through CAP?
So this represents the entire state of US education in your opinion then?
Are you typing your answer on a US developed Apple system using US developed chips and technology, or just typing it on a US developed good old Windows computer?
No of course not, What it does represent is a countries values that are so incompatable with ours that it would be impossible to marry those two up. The fact that such education is not illegal in America, shows how different we are.
I love the USA but some parts of its political and education systems are as backwards as ****.
PS. I am typing on a Taiwanese based phone, running a British processor. On a customised American Operating system developed by someone who studied at the University of Helsinki.
The EU isn't a trading block. There would be no problem if the EU was like Nafta. Instead it's the socialist utopian dream
we're in now which is fast becoming a living nightmare for most of its citizens.
I see you've caught hyperbolitis. Seems to be a common complaint amongst those who are anti-EU.
I see you've caught hyperbolitis. Seems to be a common complaint amongst those who are anti-EU.
Pot - kettle?
It isn't those against the EU who claim that 3 million jobs would be lost if we rejected membership. Lets face it, both sides are at fault for over-egging the pudding.
It isn't those against the EU who claim that 3 million jobs would be lost if we rejected membership. Lets face it, both sides are at fault for over-egging the pudding.
Those statistics are matters for debate, claiming that the EU is a socialist Utopia is hyperbolic however.
what is to debate - even the author of the original report has disowned the claim..:D
It is still within the realms of mainstream possibility that 3 million jobs could be lost . What is not in the realms of mainstream possibility is that the whole of Europe will become a Leninist version of Disneyland. :rolleyes:
It is still within the realms of mainstream possibility that 3 million jobs could be lost . What is not in the realms of mainstream possibility is that the whole of Europe will become a Leninist version of Disneyland. :rolleyes:
It's within the realms of possibility that 3 million jobs could be lost now. The EU is not exactly growth and job creating is it?
No of course not, What it does represent is a countries values that are so incompatable with ours that it would be impossible to marry those two up. The fact that such education is not illegal in America, shows how different we are.
I love the USA but some parts of its political and education systems are as backwards as ****.
PS. I am typing on a Taiwanese based phone, running a British processor. On a customised American Operating system developed by someone who studied at the University of Helsinki.
Well Im justified that the Americans are in there somewhere!
There are many anomalies in the British way of life as well, but they dont represent all of Britain thankfully.
I disagree with you that the countries are incompatible, there are a great many common values we share, such as freedom values for instance. And I'd also say that there are a great many values in other European countries that are probably as far from British ones as the example you gave.
To me, the answer to the question lies in past example. Yes it took a great deal of persuasion on Churchill's part, but America did come to Britains aid against Hitler in the war whan the chips were down.
Somehow, I find that if the reverse were true, Hitler had come to power in the USA and threatened invasion across the Atlantic, it exceptionally difficult to believe that our current 'European partners' would have committed themselves to Britain's cause in the same way.
Everyone knows what the plus points of the EU are. We're in the single market and the EU's institutions are where the laws that govern the single market are made. If we want to protect our interests on the continent - which, like it or not, matter to our economy - then we benefit from having a seat at the table.
Well Im justified that the Americans are in there somewhere!
There are many anomalies in the British way of life as well, but they dont represent all of Britain thankfully.
I disagree with you that the countries are incompatible, there are a great many common values we share, such as freedom values for instance. And I'd also say that there are a great many values in other European countries that are probably as far from British ones as the example you gave.
To me, the answer to the question lies in past example. Yes it took a great deal of persuasion on Churchill's part, but America did come to Britains aid against Hitler in the war whan the chips were down.
Somehow, I find that if the reverse were true, Hitler had come to power in the USA and threatened invasion across the Atlantic, it exceptionally difficult to believe that our current 'European partners' would have committed themselves to Britain's cause in the same way.
The American concept of "freedom" is rather different to the British concept of freedom. Erm your history is rather inaccurate. America didn't enter the war based on churchills presuasive techniques. America entered the war after the Japanese bombed the **** out of one of its harbours. Even then America didn't declare war on Nazi Germany.
It's good at making it easy to identify those who make arguments that aren't based on logic or evidence. There are plenty of good reasons to leave the EU, just as there are many to stay, but all I usually see on here are distortions and lies created by tabloids and posted as justification for leaving.
Everyone knows what the plus points of the EU are. We're in the single market and the EU's institutions are where the laws that govern the single market are made. If we want to protect our interests on the continent - which, like it or not, matter to our economy - then we benefit from having a seat at the table.
So how do countries in Nafta manage to have a single market without losing sovereignty? If we could have a proper answer and not a fudge please. There would be an outcry in Canada if the Canadians had laws from the United States which overuled Canadian laws like we have from Brussels.
So how do countries in Nafta manage to have a single market without losing sovereignty? If we could have a proper answer and not a fudge please. There would be an outcry in Canada if the Canadians had laws from the United States which overuled Canadian laws like we have from Brussels.
The reason is that NAFTA is essentially a more primitive version of the EU. We tend to speak about "free trade" as if it's just something you establish with a treaty: draft a document which gives countries free trade with each other, sign it, and suddenly everything's perfect. In reality free trade doesn't work like that, it's more like a scale in which you start off with eradicating tariffs and end up with having complementary regulatory systems that allow goods and services to move uninhibited across a market.
The further you go with free trade the greater the economic benefits, but the deeper you go the more you have to co-operate on negotiating joint-regulations and pooling sovereignty. If the EU were like NAFTA then we wouldn't have to pool our sovereignty in the same way, but we'd also have to write off a significant chunk of our prosperity that we currently get from being part of the world's largest single market.
Comments
None at all...except since we keep being told India/China/Brazil are the solution to all our economic problems why don't we apply to be a state within one of them and adopt their laws and customs...
But no, there's never been a serious proposal for the UK to be the 51st State, though it has felt that like on occasion, particularly when Maggie T was PM.
Thatcher having squandered much of our North Sea oil revenue on the mass long term welfare dependency she created stops us being like Norway and not being the world's tax evaders bank of choice stops us being like Switzerland.
We can still export to China and the Commonwealth - indeed, being in a common trading bloc helps our bargaining position.
Should make the Northern Ireland problem go away as well.
Then Scotland could drift off into the Arctic
If not they could always collect in New York to supply arms to the IRA ........................................OH Wait.:eek:
IIRC - the AIM-9L was already equipped by the FAA. However as part of NATO commitments to maintain suitable war stocks against a possible conflict against the Warsaw Pact - to use these weapons would reduce the war stocks to below the required levels.
The US agreed to loan the UK a portion of their 9-Lima stockpiles in order to get around these treaty obligations.
No, it doesn't. We keep getting involved in pointless trade wars in order to protect inefficient French and German producers.
Like this one
http://euobserver.com/economic/117084
What we need is a simple free trade agreement, like the one Iceland has just negotiated with China.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/business/global/16iht-iceland16.html?_r=0
If the Chinese are really selling solar panels at a loss, surely the best thing we could do would be to buy as many of them as we can get at the price, because they'll never be that cheap again? That would have the effect of driving the Chinese producer (our competitor) out of business and allow us to re-sell the cheap panels at a profit, killing two birds with one stone.
You need to look up why dumping is bad for the consumer in the long term, which is why we are lucky we are part of a larger bloc who can stand up to such anticompetitive pricing.
You haven't answered the question. Why should net contributors subsidise lazy French farmers through CAP?
No of course not, What it does represent is a countries values that are so incompatable with ours that it would be impossible to marry those two up. The fact that such education is not illegal in America, shows how different we are.
I love the USA but some parts of its political and education systems are as backwards as ****.
PS. I am typing on a Taiwanese based phone, running a British processor. On a customised American Operating system developed by someone who studied at the University of Helsinki.
I see you've caught hyperbolitis. Seems to be a common complaint amongst those who are anti-EU.
'Living nightmare'
Pot - kettle?
It isn't those against the EU who claim that 3 million jobs would be lost if we rejected membership. Lets face it, both sides are at fault for over-egging the pudding.
Those statistics are matters for debate, claiming that the EU is a socialist Utopia is hyperbolic however.
what is to debate - even the author of the original report has disowned the claim..:D
Ok. So do tell us plus points of the EU.
It is still within the realms of mainstream possibility that 3 million jobs could be lost . What is not in the realms of mainstream possibility is that the whole of Europe will become a Leninist version of Disneyland. :rolleyes:
It's within the realms of possibility that 3 million jobs could be lost now. The EU is not exactly growth and job creating is it?
Well Im justified that the Americans are in there somewhere!
There are many anomalies in the British way of life as well, but they dont represent all of Britain thankfully.
I disagree with you that the countries are incompatible, there are a great many common values we share, such as freedom values for instance. And I'd also say that there are a great many values in other European countries that are probably as far from British ones as the example you gave.
To me, the answer to the question lies in past example. Yes it took a great deal of persuasion on Churchill's part, but America did come to Britains aid against Hitler in the war whan the chips were down.
Somehow, I find that if the reverse were true, Hitler had come to power in the USA and threatened invasion across the Atlantic, it exceptionally difficult to believe that our current 'European partners' would have committed themselves to Britain's cause in the same way.
Everyone knows what the plus points of the EU are. We're in the single market and the EU's institutions are where the laws that govern the single market are made. If we want to protect our interests on the continent - which, like it or not, matter to our economy - then we benefit from having a seat at the table.
The American concept of "freedom" is rather different to the British concept of freedom. Erm your history is rather inaccurate. America didn't enter the war based on churchills presuasive techniques. America entered the war after the Japanese bombed the **** out of one of its harbours. Even then America didn't declare war on Nazi Germany.
It's good at making it easy to identify those who make arguments that aren't based on logic or evidence. There are plenty of good reasons to leave the EU, just as there are many to stay, but all I usually see on here are distortions and lies created by tabloids and posted as justification for leaving.
So how do countries in Nafta manage to have a single market without losing sovereignty? If we could have a proper answer and not a fudge please. There would be an outcry in Canada if the Canadians had laws from the United States which overuled Canadian laws like we have from Brussels.
The reason is that NAFTA is essentially a more primitive version of the EU. We tend to speak about "free trade" as if it's just something you establish with a treaty: draft a document which gives countries free trade with each other, sign it, and suddenly everything's perfect. In reality free trade doesn't work like that, it's more like a scale in which you start off with eradicating tariffs and end up with having complementary regulatory systems that allow goods and services to move uninhibited across a market.
The further you go with free trade the greater the economic benefits, but the deeper you go the more you have to co-operate on negotiating joint-regulations and pooling sovereignty. If the EU were like NAFTA then we wouldn't have to pool our sovereignty in the same way, but we'd also have to write off a significant chunk of our prosperity that we currently get from being part of the world's largest single market.