I guess if they were arguing THEN he got the gun then he'd made a choice but if he already had the gun in his hand then it could be a fit of rage.
Hold on I am considering that people argue with guns in their hand?!!! What has this case turned us all into - we just dont have this kind of thing here in the UK but it seems normal after this week on here to even consider it.
If it was started by an argument, this is the story I'd buy...
They were arguing, it got increasingly heated and violent, he grabbed the gun and started waving it around to scare her, she ran to the bathroom in fear, he followed, yelled at her to come out, she refused, he shot the door, with the intention of either shooting her or gaining entry.
I don't buy any story that involved her going to the loo, there being a gap, during which he thought he should kill her, goes to get the gun, returns, and shoots to kill.
Except, by the sounds of it, its a pretty serious gun, and those shots would have been fired within 2 seconds of each other.
I don't know much about guns, but presumably its a semi automatic type gun, and not something where he would have had to consciously stop, reload, fire for each shot.
To get any degree of accuracy, especially over a distance, they would have to recreate wind speed and direction ( if any), atmospheric pressure, temperature, voice levels, as well as taking into account individual hearing abilities. Difficult.
That's what forensics do - perhaps not exactly, but its certainly an avenue of investigation.
'Premeditated' in the SA justice system seems to mean 'there was at least a short period where the accused could be reasonably expected to think about what he was doing and exert restraint on himself'. It doesn't mean 'pre-planned'.
I would have agreed with you too until I worked out how far 600 or even 300m is and that in practice I don't hear anything from the high street at the top of our street. Give it a try, map out how far 300m is from your bedroom.
I agree. You might just hear something, but could you really know exactly which house it was coming from and exactly who was shouting?
Except, by the sounds of it, its a pretty serious gun, and those shots would have been fired within 2 seconds of each other.
I don't know much about guns, but presumably its a semi automatic type gun, and not something where he would have had to consciously stop, reload, fire for each shot.
I've no idea re the gun.
I still agree with "It's the four shots as well. He didn't intend to wound or he would have shot once and maybe retreated to the hall way" .
I didn't realise that his front door was unlocked never mind the windows. Why would someone so concerned with security go to bed with their front door unlocked?
I think we're all concerned about security, but still on occasion forget to lock a door.
As I said earlier, if he woke, realised that doors had been left open, and then heard an unexpected sound in the dead of night, its entirely plausible that he might have connected the two, lending credence to the suggestion that he thought there was an intruder.
Except, by the sounds of it, its a pretty serious gun, and those shots would have been fired within 2 seconds of each other.
I don't know much about guns, but presumably its a semi automatic type gun, and not something where he would have had to consciously stop, reload, fire for each shot.
I dont know much about guns either but I do know one thing .If you fire them four times into a tiny room they can kill .And so did Oscar know that fact .
I dont know much about guns either but I do know one thing .If you fire them four times into a tiny room they can kill .And so did Oscar know that fact .
Totally agree. To fire one shot, (up to the celing) to me would be a warning and that you meant business...3/4 shots is overkill for a warning imo (no pun intended btw).
It's possible though don't you think? He has the resources to flee and hide
I imagine the border between South Africa and the countries to the north may be considerably more easy to get across than to leave via airports or ports. Once out of SA, there is solid landmass and roads to Europe and Asia. There are plenty of places with the medical facilities to help him, and no extradition treaty with SA. As they pointed out, SA does have an extradition treaty with the UK, and they still can't get Dewani back to stand trial.
I think we're all concerned about security, but still on occasion forget to lock a door.
As I said earlier, if he woke, realised that doors had been left open, and then heard an unexpected sound in the dead of night, its entirely plausible that he might have connected the two, lending credence to the suggestion that he thought there was an intruder.
Somebody who arms themselves and who appears from his account to be terrified of the slightest noise is not going to leave the door unlocked and leave windows open.
Shooting blindly through a door is not a shot not to kill , its a shot that you have no clue if it will kill or not .If you shoot not to kill you aim at the ceiling once and shout out that the next one will be lower . Four blasts through a door in a tiny space can hardly be classed as avoiding a kill
I think we're all concerned about security, but still on occasion forget to lock a door.
As I said earlier, if he woke, realised that doors had been left open, and then heard an unexpected sound in the dead of night, its entirely plausible that he might have connected the two, lending credence to the suggestion that he thought there was an intruder.
I have never ever forgotten to lock my front/back door. It's as natural as breathing to me, no matter how tired or rushed I may be, I ensure locks are applied and windows shut.
Somebody who arms themselves and who appears from his account to be terrified of the slightest noise is not going to leave the door unlocked and leave windows open.
What, ever?
I expect none of us think we'd leave doors open, but I bet most of us do from time to time.
I imagine the border between South Africa and the countries to the north may be considerably more easy to get across than to leave via airports or ports. Once out of SA, there is solid landmass and roads to Europe and Asia. There are plenty of places with the medical facilities to help him, and no extradition treaty with SA. As they pointed out, SA does have an extradition treaty with the UK, and they still can't get Dewani back to stand trial.
I have never ever forgotten to lock my front/back door. It's as natural as breathing to me, no matter how tired or rushed I may be, I ensure locks are applied and windows shut.
I have to agree with this!
I live in London and it is what you do, surely the same would go if you lived somewhere like Pretoria? Gated community or not it is just sensible to lock your doors and windows?
I have never ever forgotten to lock my front/back door. It's as natural as breathing to me, no matter how tired or rushed I may be, I ensure locks are applied and windows shut.
So?
Would you like to go as far as to say that no-one, ever, has unintentionally not locked a door?
Maybe if he was calm and collected, and thinking straight.
But by all accounts, its highly likely that he was anything but calm and collected, and thinking straight.
But nobody knows for sure either way. The facts are he shot the gun more than once and, like I said earlier, that's overkill in my mind to simply warn/scare someone.
I live in London and it is what you do, surely the same would go if you lived somewhere like Pretoria? Gated community or not it is just sensible to lock your doors and windows?
Yes, of course its sensible.
The point her is that no matter how sensible it is, and how security conscious you are, people still, on occasion, forget.
Totally agree. To fire one shot, (up to the celing) to me would be a warning and that you meant business...3/4 shots is overkill for a warning imo (no pun intended btw).
That's my problem with it as well, one shot into the ceiling as a warning, Reeva screams out its her in the toilet, where she could have previously been keeping quiet, intent on hiding from the intruder, four shots towards the room, however he angled them, that's an attempt to kill or seriously maim imo.
Would you like to go as far as to say that no-one, ever, has unintentionally not locked a door?
Because I'd bet my house that wasn't true.
If I don't lock my door it would mean I don't have my keys and I'd not be able to get back in so I can hand on heart say in the 3 years I've lived where I do now if I am the last one out the door has been locked! OH is the same as I've never been the first one home to an unlocked house.
That's my problem with it as well, one shot into the ceiling as a warning, Reeva screams out its her in the toilet, where she could have previously been keeping quiet, intent on hiding from the intruder, four shots towards the room, however he angled them, that's an attempt to kill or seriously maim imo.
Comments
If it was started by an argument, this is the story I'd buy...
They were arguing, it got increasingly heated and violent, he grabbed the gun and started waving it around to scare her, she ran to the bathroom in fear, he followed, yelled at her to come out, she refused, he shot the door, with the intention of either shooting her or gaining entry.
I don't buy any story that involved her going to the loo, there being a gap, during which he thought he should kill her, goes to get the gun, returns, and shoots to kill.
Except, by the sounds of it, its a pretty serious gun, and those shots would have been fired within 2 seconds of each other.
I don't know much about guns, but presumably its a semi automatic type gun, and not something where he would have had to consciously stop, reload, fire for each shot.
That's what forensics do - perhaps not exactly, but its certainly an avenue of investigation.
I agree. You might just hear something, but could you really know exactly which house it was coming from and exactly who was shouting?
I've no idea re the gun.
I still agree with "It's the four shots as well. He didn't intend to wound or he would have shot once and maybe retreated to the hall way" .
I think we're all concerned about security, but still on occasion forget to lock a door.
As I said earlier, if he woke, realised that doors had been left open, and then heard an unexpected sound in the dead of night, its entirely plausible that he might have connected the two, lending credence to the suggestion that he thought there was an intruder.
I dont know much about guns either but I do know one thing .If you fire them four times into a tiny room they can kill .And so did Oscar know that fact .
i think you may be right
Totally agree. To fire one shot, (up to the celing) to me would be a warning and that you meant business...3/4 shots is overkill for a warning imo (no pun intended btw).
I imagine the border between South Africa and the countries to the north may be considerably more easy to get across than to leave via airports or ports. Once out of SA, there is solid landmass and roads to Europe and Asia. There are plenty of places with the medical facilities to help him, and no extradition treaty with SA. As they pointed out, SA does have an extradition treaty with the UK, and they still can't get Dewani back to stand trial.
Somebody who arms themselves and who appears from his account to be terrified of the slightest noise is not going to leave the door unlocked and leave windows open.
If they were angled down they could have been.
I have never ever forgotten to lock my front/back door. It's as natural as breathing to me, no matter how tired or rushed I may be, I ensure locks are applied and windows shut.
Maybe if he was calm and collected, and thinking straight.
But by all accounts, its highly likely that he was anything but calm and collected, and thinking straight.
What, ever?
I expect none of us think we'd leave doors open, but I bet most of us do from time to time.
It's feasible isn't it. He could abscond.
I have to agree with this!
I live in London and it is what you do, surely the same would go if you lived somewhere like Pretoria? Gated community or not it is just sensible to lock your doors and windows?
So?
Would you like to go as far as to say that no-one, ever, has unintentionally not locked a door?
Because I'd bet my house that wasn't true.
But nobody knows for sure either way. The facts are he shot the gun more than once and, like I said earlier, that's overkill in my mind to simply warn/scare someone.
Yes, of course its sensible.
The point her is that no matter how sensible it is, and how security conscious you are, people still, on occasion, forget.
That's my problem with it as well, one shot into the ceiling as a warning, Reeva screams out its her in the toilet, where she could have previously been keeping quiet, intent on hiding from the intruder, four shots towards the room, however he angled them, that's an attempt to kill or seriously maim imo.
You stated" I think we're all concerned about security, but still on occasion forget to lock a door. " and I said I haven't. So?
If I don't lock my door it would mean I don't have my keys and I'd not be able to get back in so I can hand on heart say in the 3 years I've lived where I do now if I am the last one out the door has been locked! OH is the same as I've never been the first one home to an unlocked house.
Totally agree Agent.