I think the point perhaps is did such events not occur pre the referendum? Did no Poles have property vandalised or become the victim of violent attacks?
"The Polish Embassy in London said its consuls have intervened 15 times in recent weeks over reports of xenophobic incidents.
A Number 10 spokesman said: "The Prime Minister called Prime Minister Szydlo this afternoon to express her deep regret at recent attacks on Polish citizens in the UK."
Recent attacks. Post Referendum.
Could be a coincidence I suppose? That appears to be what you are desperately clinging on to.
It is a bit like posting that a defendent is a murder trial must be a bit crazy - even though the defence team have already said otherwise. It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid the alternative explanations....
A great example is the town of Slough - built on the backs of Irish, Welsh and Scots work seekers, then absorbing both Polish and London East End over spill after Second World War, followed by Caribbean and then Asian arrivals, the latter in significant numbers since the 1970s. And it voted to Leave, 54.3%, despite having a well thought of pro-Remain Labour woman MP for nearly 20 years.
Exactly right.
Newham was almost 50 50 despite having a white British population of Only 16 per cent.
A lot of Commonwealth citizens and people originating from those countries felt the EU was discriminatory as freedom of movement put mostly white Europeans ahead of the queue over their relatives and countrymen. They voted leave partly because they thought the EU was racist and discriminated against them.
"The Polish Embassy in London said its consuls have intervened 15 times in recent weeks over reports of xenophobic incidents.
A Number 10 spokesman said: "The Prime Minister called Prime Minister Szydlo this afternoon to express her deep regret at recent attacks on Polish citizens in the UK."
Recent attacks. Post Referendum.
Could be a coincidence I suppose? That appears to be what you are desperately clinging on to.
It is a bit like posting that a defendent is a murder trial must be a bit crazy - even though the defence team have already said otherwise. It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid the alternative explanations....
And there are 3000 violent crimes every day and 21000 every week in the UK. Given there are at least half a million Poles in the UK the fact that there were 15 cases in several weeks seems quite low relative to their population share. By the law of averages - and ignoring most Poles here are likely to be aged 18 to 30 so are more likely to be violent crime victims due to their age - 180 Poles a week should be victims of violent crime if they were as likely to be victims as everyone else.
Seems no one in the media cares about the 3000 mostly British victims of crime every day. But you can't blame Brexit for those can you.
I don't deny Poles experience being victims of violent crimes like everyone else does. But 15 cases over several weeks seems quite small relative to their population share compared to the 21000 violent crimes in the UK each week.
Violent crimes rose 27 per cent in the year to September 2015 - is that Brexits fault too? Cos that happened a year before we voted! Beware statistics being used by remain politicians with an agenda!
Steady! Someone will accuse you of you know what! ;-)
Pfft, let them. I'm more bothered by the barrage of "hate speech" directed against my wife (alongside half the voting population) for daring to hold the sincere belief that the EU is a bloated and undemocratic institution that is likely to drag us all down with it....
I don't entirely agree with her but then hey, I'm not going to wet the bed over a differing political opinion.
"The Polish Embassy in London said its consuls have intervened 15 times in recent weeks over reports of xenophobic incidents.
A Number 10 spokesman said: "The Prime Minister called Prime Minister Szydlo this afternoon to express her deep regret at recent attacks on Polish citizens in the UK."
Recent attacks. Post Referendum.
Could be a coincidence I suppose? That appears to be what you are desperately clinging on to.
It is a bit like posting that a defendent is a murder trial must be a bit crazy - even though the defence team have already said otherwise. It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid the alternative explanations....
The desperate clinging comes from those who take small (numbers of) isolated incidents and portray them as the definitive overall picture. The desperate clinging comes from those that then peddle the cause of the assumed overall picture as a result of a single incident (in this case the referendum). This clinging must also include the shutting out of any other thinking or looking anywhere except "over here, look". Suddenly all other sources of information, data or the past are not relevant, as if this (HNH view) is an enlightening, "look how our society has become". Truth is, our society has always had elements of unsavouriness of this ilk and probably always will and from more than the one angle potrayed. Turth is, our society has actually never been so accommodating, understanding and inclusive. Truth is our society has never had such echo chambers of MSM and social media to make things appear as they are not, in reality.
Violent crimes rose 27 per cent in the year to September 2015 - is that Brexits fault too? Cos that happened a year before we voted! Beware statistics being used by remain politicians with an agenda!
You could start a thread about it? This thread is about the aftermath of the Referendum campaign.
You have made no attempt to explain why the Prime Minister has phoned the Polish Prime Minister to apologise for an increase in hate crimes.
You must surely have a view about why the PM did not phone before the Referendum to apologise for an increase in hate crimes?
You must surely be able to imagine what was discussed. Do you think they were only discussing the hate crimes reported in the Plymouth Herald?
It seems you wish to dismiss hate crimes reported in the media since the Referendum.
It seems you also wish to dismiss hate crimes investigated by the Police since the Referendum.
It seems you also wish to dismiss anecdotal evidence (of post Referendum hate crime) from individuals who have a platform to relate their personal experiences (black and asian journalist/broadcasters, including Trish Adudu, Sima Kotecha, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown). They cannot all be liars?
Surely there is now only one option open to you?
Cut out the middle man - that you don't trust to inform you.
Visit some Polish shops and "chat with them". Because the graffiti and the broken glass is only one part of the hate from the newly emboldened.
You could start a thread about it? This thread is about the aftermath of the Referendum campaign.
You have made no attempt to explain why the Prime Minister has phoned the Polish Prime Minister to apologise for an increase in hate crimes.
You must surely have a view about why the PM did not phone before the Referendum to apologise for an increase in hate crimes?
You must surely be able to imagine what was discussed. Do you think they were only discussing the hate crimes reported in the Plymouth Herald?
It seems you wish to dismiss hate crimes reported in the media since the Referendum.
It seems you also wish to dismiss hate crimes investigated by the Police since the Referendum.
It seems you also wish to dismiss anecdotal evidence (of post Referendum hate crime) from individuals who have a platform to relate their personal experiences (black and asian journalist/broadcasters, including Trish Adudu, Sima Kotecha, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown). They cannot all be liars?
Surely there is now only one option open to you?
Cut out the middle man - that you don't trust to inform you.
Visit some Polish shops and "chat with them". Because the graffiti and the broken glass is only one part of the hate from the newly emboldened.
I just look at wider statistics. Do you deny there are 21000 violent crimes a week in the UK? So 15 cases is tiny as relatively is the increase on reported hate crimes.
This thread is about the aftermath of the Referendum campaign.
And as you can see there was no 400% increase and incidents of hate crime have returned to a similar level as they were before the referendum, the week/month following the referendum wasn't indicative of a wider trend.
'Hate not hope' banned me from their Facebook just for posting a link to the UKIP LGBTQ group. They are the epitomy of the regressive left and it was so funny when their founder got no platformed by the NUS
I just look at wider statistics. Do you deny there are 21000 violent crimes a week in the UK? So 15 cases is tiny as relatively is the increase on reported hate crimes.
Which is not the thread topic.
What we are discussing is that.....you (and others on this thread) think that the increase in hate crime after the Redferendum was just a coincidence. That is the clear impression you are giving during the brief moments that you are not deflecting. (If Deflecting for Little England was an Olympic Sport.....then........ )
If you actually wish to deny, in public , the link......the non coincidence.......that triggered the PM's apology..........of course I defend your right to do so.
But Theresa May does not agree with you. And neither do I.
What we are discussing is that.....you (and others on this thread) think that the increase in hate crime after the Redferendum was just a coincidence. That is the clear impression you are giving during the brief moments that you are not deflecting. (If Deflecting for Little England was an Olympic Sport.....then........ )
If you actually wish to deny, in public , the link......the non coincidence.......that triggered the PMs apology..........of course I defend your right to do so.
But Theresa May does not agree with you. And neither do I.
Theresa May is doing PR.
Did she personally apologise and call the extra 185000 violent crime victims last year under her watch.
Or is no one much interested when it's Brits being mugged, battered, shot and stabbed?
Cos maybe crimes are just up anyway - but if you don't say it's a hate crime no one is that interested.
Interesting how in an article about the misuse of statistics, lying and winding people up they choose to include these on the page. See if you can spot the difference.
Hate crimes soar by 400 PER CENT since Brexit as police warn of 'increase in tension towards migrants'
Reports of hate crimes soared by 400% in the immediate aftermath of the referendum.
Now not only is there a difference of what actually happened but there is a clear misuse of the statistics.They're comparing a weekly average over an entire year with those of a particular month. The week following the referendum reports of hate crimes rose and fell by 100%.
Well said. I saw a policeman at a talk confirming that people were registering Nigel Farage as a hate crime. And that's the thing, just because reporting of hate crimes is going up doesn't mean that hate crimes are actually going up as the verification for whether something is a hate crime is now decided by the possible victim rather than some outside authority.
This thread is like many of the regurgitated myths and unsubstantiated rubbish emanating from progressive liberals these days.
If you keep repeating it often enough it will be seen as truth and fact - It is not.
Plus it's from the Daily Mirror.
Well said. I saw a policeman at a talk confirming that people were registering Nigel Farage as a hate crime. And that's the thing, just because reporting of hate crimes is going up doesn't mean that hate crimes are actually going up as the verification for whether something is a hate crime is now decided by the possible victim rather than some outside authority.
Plus the vast majority are unsubstantiated and uncorroborated.
Did she personally apologise and call the extra 185000 violent crime victims last year under her watch.
Or is no one much interested when it's Brits being mugged, battered, shot and stabbed?
Cos maybe crimes are just up anyway - but if you don't say it's a hate crime no one is that interested.
We cannot stop deflection in threads.
Someone on page 1 has mentioned Rotherham! But imagine where that will lead. In no time at all that will lead to me mentioning the hundreds of thousands of British Men who travel to another country every year to assault young girls and children. Why do they do that? Well....because the girls and children are from another culture and are therefore "worthless". Why are they not prosecuted? Just be patient.
So deflection should be avoided to make the threads more focused.
The impact of information - including various snippets of evidence - is cumulative. Everybody started out thinking it was just a few people who had got over excited about the Referendum.
But when I post a few examples of individual jounalists/broadcasters who have reported anecdotal evidence......their own experiences......you ignore the names and continue deflecting.
The cumulative effect on me is to move from: Slightly concerned (about friends), to: More Concerned.
But it seems that the cumulative effect on you is to prompt your fingers to move slightly further into your ears. The Polish Shop Tour was a serious suggestion.
Plus the vast majority are unsubstantiated and uncorroborated.
Which is why you never see any detailed analysis reported of these reported new hate crimes - unless I missed them - just a percentage increase on what was a low number anyway. Cos percentages look so much more significant than say 40 extra cases in a country of 60 million.
How many involve violent crimes and how many are complaints about tweets by Katie Hopkins or others. How many arrests were made and how many convictions have occurred? And when is one of the 3000 daily violent crimes - rising 27 per cent a year - a hate crime or just a crime. Who decides and who knows what the motives were. It's all subjective!
Cos anyone can report anything via an online form. Was that Poiish guy who got hit outside a pub following a drunken night out a hate crime victim but the English guy he punched first just a victim of a crime. Who decides - but call it a hate crime and you are more likely to get the law on your side taking action,
The impact of information - including various snippets of evidence - is cumulative. Everybody started out thinking it was just a few people who had got over excited about the Referendum.
But when I post a few examples of individual jounalists/broadcasters who have reported anecdotal evidence......you ignore the names and continue deflecting.
The cumulative effect on me is to move from: Slightly concerned (about friends), to: More Concerned.
Ironically that is the claim being made by hope not hate except you seem to be suffering from a sort of inverse effect and believe it's much greater than it actually is instead of being motivated to cause it. Was there an increase in reported hate crimes after the referendum? yes, does correlation equal causation? no and what's even more absurd is trying to pin it on the actions of two men. There was an almost identical uptick in hate crimes in february to june 2014 where incidents rose by roughly 100% so what happened then and who do we blame?
This thread is like many of the regurgitated myths and unsubstantiated rubbish emanating from progressive liberals these days.
If you keep repeating it often enough it will be seen as truth and fact - It is not. Plus it's from the Daily Mirror.
Indeed (former) but (BIB) don't go down that route, the 'reporter/newspaper' is not relevant in this case other than they choose to make it news, others do not... "Giving evidence to the Home Affairs Select Committee". The newspaper hasn't doctored the footage.
Which is why you never see any detailed analysis reported of these reported new hate crimes - unless I missed them - just a percentage increase on what was a low number anyway. Cos percentages look so much more significant than say 40 extra cases in a country of 60 million.
How many involve violent crimes and how many are complaints about tweets by Katie Hopkins or others. How many arrests were made and how many convictions have occurred? And when is one of the 3000 daily violent crimes - rising 27 per cent a year - a hate crime or just a crime. Who decides and who knows what the motives were. It's all subjective!
Cos anyone can report anything via an online form. Was that Poiish guy who got hit outside a pub following a drunken night out a hate crime victim but the English guy he punched first just a victim of a crime. Who decides - but call it a hate crime and you are more likely to get the law on your side taking action,
And how many are online activists making multiple complaints about their interpretation of the same poster.
Anybody who does not believe that Farage and the UKIPers did not stir up anti immigration and then Brexit, is deluded
The majority who voted for Brexit claim that they did so because of too much immigration
Trump did the same in the USA with promise to deport millions of illegals, to deal with Muslims, and build a wall between USA and Mexico
Anybody who does not believe that Farage and the UKIPers did not stir up anti immigration and then Brexit, is deluded The majority who voted for Brexit claim that they did so because of too much immigration
Trump did the same in the USA with promise to deport millions of illegals, to deal with Muslims, and build a wall between USA and Mexico
If concern over uncontrolled immigration and it's effects on our public services and wider society hadn't been treated as a taboo subject for the last 20 years we probably wouldn't be leaving the EU now.
If concern over uncontrolled immigration and it's effects on our public services and wider society hadn't been treated as a taboo subject for the last 20 years we probably wouldn't be leaving the EU now.
Brexit is a self-inflicted injury.
On the other hand, you could argue Brexit itself was an overreaction to any issues surrounding immigration. That bloke who claims to be the architect of the Leave campaign (I forget his name) admits the strategy was to reduce it to a couple of core issues of "take back control" and "immigration". UKIP and the Leave campaign received enormous help from their pals in the media of course. Keep hammering home the claim that immigration is "out of control" and the only way it can be reined in is to leave the EU.
Anybody who does not believe that Farage and the UKIPers did not stir up anti immigration and then Brexit, is deluded
The majority who voted for Brexit claim that they did so because of too much immigration
Trump did the same in the USA with promise to deport millions of illegals, to deal with Muslims, and build a wall between USA and Mexico
Justiified concern over there being far too much uncontrolled immigration is hardly incitement for supposed "hate crimes"
Comments
"The Polish Embassy in London said its consuls have intervened 15 times in recent weeks over reports of xenophobic incidents.
A Number 10 spokesman said: "The Prime Minister called Prime Minister Szydlo this afternoon to express her deep regret at recent attacks on Polish citizens in the UK."
Recent attacks. Post Referendum.
Could be a coincidence I suppose?
It is a bit like posting that a defendent is a murder trial must be a bit crazy - even though the defence team have already said otherwise. It sounds like a desperate attempt to avoid the alternative explanations....
Exactly right.
Newham was almost 50 50 despite having a white British population of Only 16 per cent.
A lot of Commonwealth citizens and people originating from those countries felt the EU was discriminatory as freedom of movement put mostly white Europeans ahead of the queue over their relatives and countrymen. They voted leave partly because they thought the EU was racist and discriminated against them.
And there are 3000 violent crimes every day and 21000 every week in the UK. Given there are at least half a million Poles in the UK the fact that there were 15 cases in several weeks seems quite low relative to their population share. By the law of averages - and ignoring most Poles here are likely to be aged 18 to 30 so are more likely to be violent crime victims due to their age - 180 Poles a week should be victims of violent crime if they were as likely to be victims as everyone else.
Seems no one in the media cares about the 3000 mostly British victims of crime every day. But you can't blame Brexit for those can you.
I don't deny Poles experience being victims of violent crimes like everyone else does. But 15 cases over several weeks seems quite small relative to their population share compared to the 21000 violent crimes in the UK each week.
Violent crimes rose 27 per cent in the year to September 2015 - is that Brexits fault too? Cos that happened a year before we voted! Beware statistics being used by remain politicians with an agenda!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12112024/Violent-crime-jumps-27-in-new-figures.html
Pfft, let them. I'm more bothered by the barrage of "hate speech" directed against my wife (alongside half the voting population) for daring to hold the sincere belief that the EU is a bloated and undemocratic institution that is likely to drag us all down with it....
I don't entirely agree with her but then hey, I'm not going to wet the bed over a differing political opinion.
The desperate clinging comes from those who take small (numbers of) isolated incidents and portray them as the definitive overall picture. The desperate clinging comes from those that then peddle the cause of the assumed overall picture as a result of a single incident (in this case the referendum). This clinging must also include the shutting out of any other thinking or looking anywhere except "over here, look". Suddenly all other sources of information, data or the past are not relevant, as if this (HNH view) is an enlightening, "look how our society has become". Truth is, our society has always had elements of unsavouriness of this ilk and probably always will and from more than the one angle potrayed. Turth is, our society has actually never been so accommodating, understanding and inclusive. Truth is our society has never had such echo chambers of MSM and social media to make things appear as they are not, in reality.
You could start a thread about it?
This thread is about the aftermath of the Referendum campaign.
You have made no attempt to explain why the Prime Minister has phoned the Polish Prime Minister to apologise for an increase in hate crimes.
You must surely have a view about why the PM did not phone before the Referendum to apologise for an increase in hate crimes?
You must surely be able to imagine what was discussed. Do you think they were only discussing the hate crimes reported in the Plymouth Herald?
It seems you wish to dismiss hate crimes reported in the media since the Referendum.
It seems you also wish to dismiss hate crimes investigated by the Police since the Referendum.
It seems you also wish to dismiss anecdotal evidence (of post Referendum hate crime) from individuals who have a platform to relate their personal experiences (black and asian journalist/broadcasters, including Trish Adudu, Sima Kotecha, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown). They cannot all be liars?
Surely there is now only one option open to you?
Cut out the middle man - that you don't trust to inform you.
Visit some Polish shops and "chat with them". Because the graffiti and the broken glass is only one part of the hate from the newly emboldened.
I just look at wider statistics. Do you deny there are 21000 violent crimes a week in the UK? So 15 cases is tiny as relatively is the increase on reported hate crimes.
And as you can see there was no 400% increase and incidents of hate crime have returned to a similar level as they were before the referendum, the week/month following the referendum wasn't indicative of a wider trend.
https://postimg.org/image/8sl4zpu5z/e18b7871/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/18/nick-lowles-hope-not-hate-nus-ban-talk-islamophobic-_n_9263068.html
Which is not the thread topic.
What we are discussing is that.....you (and others on this thread) think that the increase in hate crime after the Redferendum was just a coincidence. That is the clear impression you are giving during the brief moments that you are not deflecting. (If Deflecting for Little England was an Olympic Sport.....then........
If you actually wish to deny, in public
But Theresa May does not agree with you. And neither do I.
Theresa May is doing PR.
Did she personally apologise and call the extra 185000 violent crime victims last year under her watch.
Or is no one much interested when it's Brits being mugged, battered, shot and stabbed?
Cos maybe crimes are just up anyway - but if you don't say it's a hate crime no one is that interested.
If you keep repeating it often enough it will be seen as truth and fact - It is not.
Plus it's from the Daily Mirror.
Plus the vast majority are unsubstantiated and uncorroborated.
I don't recollect Farage doing the same.
Why would he?
We cannot stop deflection in threads.
Someone on page 1 has mentioned Rotherham!
But imagine where that will lead. In no time at all that will lead to me mentioning the hundreds of thousands of British Men who travel to another country every year to assault young girls and children. Why do they do that? Well....because the girls and children are from another culture and are therefore "worthless". Why are they not prosecuted? Just be patient.
So deflection should be avoided to make the threads more focused.
The impact of information - including various snippets of evidence - is cumulative. Everybody started out thinking it was just a few people who had got over excited about the Referendum.
But when I post a few examples of individual jounalists/broadcasters who have reported anecdotal evidence......their own experiences......you ignore the names and continue deflecting.
The cumulative effect on me is to move from: Slightly concerned (about friends), to: More Concerned.
But it seems that the cumulative effect on you is to prompt your fingers to move slightly further into your ears. The Polish Shop Tour was a serious suggestion.
Which is why you never see any detailed analysis reported of these reported new hate crimes - unless I missed them - just a percentage increase on what was a low number anyway. Cos percentages look so much more significant than say 40 extra cases in a country of 60 million.
How many involve violent crimes and how many are complaints about tweets by Katie Hopkins or others. How many arrests were made and how many convictions have occurred? And when is one of the 3000 daily violent crimes - rising 27 per cent a year - a hate crime or just a crime. Who decides and who knows what the motives were. It's all subjective!
Cos anyone can report anything via an online form. Was that Poiish guy who got hit outside a pub following a drunken night out a hate crime victim but the English guy he punched first just a victim of a crime. Who decides - but call it a hate crime and you are more likely to get the law on your side taking action,
Ironically that is the claim being made by hope not hate except you seem to be suffering from a sort of inverse effect and believe it's much greater than it actually is instead of being motivated to cause it. Was there an increase in reported hate crimes after the referendum? yes, does correlation equal causation? no and what's even more absurd is trying to pin it on the actions of two men. There was an almost identical uptick in hate crimes in february to june 2014 where incidents rose by roughly 100% so what happened then and who do we blame?
Indeed (former) but (BIB) don't go down that route, the 'reporter/newspaper' is not relevant in this case other than they choose to make it news, others do not... "Giving evidence to the Home Affairs Select Committee". The newspaper hasn't doctored the footage.
(Can't believe i'm defending the Mirror)
And how many are online activists making multiple complaints about their interpretation of the same poster.
The majority who voted for Brexit claim that they did so because of too much immigration
Trump did the same in the USA with promise to deport millions of illegals, to deal with Muslims, and build a wall between USA and Mexico
If concern over uncontrolled immigration and it's effects on our public services and wider society hadn't been treated as a taboo subject for the last 20 years we probably wouldn't be leaving the EU now.
Brexit is a self-inflicted injury.
On the other hand, you could argue Brexit itself was an overreaction to any issues surrounding immigration. That bloke who claims to be the architect of the Leave campaign (I forget his name) admits the strategy was to reduce it to a couple of core issues of "take back control" and "immigration". UKIP and the Leave campaign received enormous help from their pals in the media of course. Keep hammering home the claim that immigration is "out of control" and the only way it can be reined in is to leave the EU.
Justiified concern over there being far too much uncontrolled immigration is hardly incitement for supposed "hate crimes"