I'm in the minority but I feel the same way. At the end they were talking about psychiatrists and psychologists (plural) and that sounds to me like a veritable team!
So long as these people are unbiased and professional I do not believe they could be conned by OP - I know this sounds rude but after his appearance on the witness stand I concluded we weren't exactly dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed.
If he does in fact suffer from a disorder of any kind, fine. I just want the truth.
Yes I agree. The trouble with general mental disorders are that they are on the whole self reported, but a team working together should be able to get to the truth of the matter, and the truth is really all that does matter.
I'm in the minority but I feel the same way. At the end they were talking about psychiatrists and psychologists (plural) and that sounds to me like a veritable team!
So long as these people are unbiased and professional I do not believe they could be conned by OP - I know this sounds rude but after his appearance on the witness stand I concluded we weren't exactly dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed.
If he does in fact suffer from a disorder of any kind, fine. I just want the truth.
It's the fact he can go in and out when he please that bugs me - not that I think they will be biased too him . I would have liked a full assessment there day and night - won't kill him will it ffs
He killed someone! Would you be happy to have him wandering about? ... guns go off when he so much as looks at them. He could very well ... 'unintentionally' ... kill you.
He has been referred for assessment, not to get him off the streets because he is a danger to others, and, as far as I understand it, not for compulsory treatment. This is not a punishment, however much people want it to be.
I am still trying to fathom the prosecutor's reason for pushing for the assessment.
Watching his cross examination tactics, he appears to cover both bases with his line of questioning, seeking a win-win situation wit hwhat he elicits from the witness.
I am sur t he referral puts him in such a win-win but I can't see the full picture.
If after the assessment Pistorius is found not to be suffering a serious condition, I can undertand how the prosecution will use it - for one there can be no diminished responsibility argument.
On the other hand, if a condtion is confirmed, how will that aid the prosection's position?
If it is confirmed, then the prosecution is in the same place as it would have been had DrVs diagnosis would have remained on the record.
I see it as - dismiss DrV's evidence or some of it, and the defense to say they won't push for 'diminished responsibility' at any time.
Then the referral could have not happened.
However, Nel said that OP could sack his Counsel and STILL use it.
On the record without proper challenge and testing, it COULD be used still.
So - it is better for the prosecution that it is AT LEAST confirmed and dealt with.
Because IF this happens, Nel and the prosecution will have info from the examination, and also may be given professional opinion which could HELP refute the idea that OP is not criminally responsible to any degree.
Or at least to ascertain to WHAT degree, and have that on record.
It's GAD, and he doesn't seem to suffer seriously from what we've heard, Dr Vs examination seemed brief and incomplete to the point of bias.
It very well may be that the state experts will come to a different conclusion as to it's IMPORTANCE.
And at the same time, the door will be firmly CLOSED, to use this 'GAD' willy nilly, without the ability to argue, in the trial, or at appeal.
Of course he has rights but the big problem I have is that he has blatantly been getting preferential since the start because he is famous, rich and white. If poor black people accused of murder were treated like this as well then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Exactly , the latter are incarcerated in jail for years at a time awaiting trial.
It does not show SA justice in a good even handed light to the world
He has been referred for assessment, not to get him off the streets because he is a danger to others, and, as far as I understand it, not for compulsory treatment. This is not a punishment, however much people want it to be.
Agree, it has to be done, how it's done doesn't matter. And he's on bail anyway.
I would have thought if OP does suffer from a debilitating psychiatric disorder it would be far more beneficial for him to be observed 24/7, unless of course he doesn't believe he has one at all.
His mental state has changed since the killing IMO. He now has anxiety due to possibility of losing his former glory status.
Of course, and the psychiatric team will take all that into account. They're doing this kind of thing on a daily basis, and know all the tricks and traits. The good thing is, we're going to get an independent evaluation of Oscar's mental state, which means that justice will be able to proceed. Surely that's what everyone wants.
Having looked at MINDS categories for psycopaths, sociapaths, narcissists and GAD Pistorius' rage if he is a narcissist (very possible) is NOT caused by the anxiety. I wonder if he hurt animals when he was around aged 15 as this is what pysychopaths and sociopaths start off doing. If he didn't he's none of these 2 either!!!! So he WILL go to prison.
Judge Masipa even opened the door for him to use it as a defense now if they find he has any kind of mental "illness." To wit: a general anxiety disorder. It's just been handed to Roux as a gift.
I would bet a mortgage payment they will. Dr Vorster sat on panels for referrals and she didn't even think he should be referred.
Anyway, he might be assessed and be found to have something that would make him more likely to kill his girlfriend, such as being an angry self centred gun loving psychopath. So long as he knows right from wrong that ain't gonna help him.
His name is Oscar- he should get one. He can act normal when under no threat, he will be primed how to be, say and do. IMO
No really??? This trial has been going on for months and I've been calling him Fred. -__-
I'm using my phone, I'm in a rush (getting dressed for a meeting while I have a quick chat) I made a post just before USING HIS NAME so I chucked a he in. I almost always use OP.
While I am aware he will be primed by the defence and be told what GAD entails, won't they see through? Or has no one have faith in the psychiatrists and psychologists that will observe/assess him.
It;s going to be an assessment for everything, not just GAD.
Well Nel stepped in it now---took a perfectly poor case to begin with and made it even less likely for conviction.
I'm ready for another bet. Who wants to take a swing at this pinata?
The psychiatric panel will find the same thing that Dr. Vorster did and it will give great credence to his actions as he testified.
Also if you listened to Judge Masipa, she even gave a clue to her thoughts and how she was thinking as the trial has developed to this point.
My hat is off to that cagey Rouxmeister.
Well played.
So who was it said at 2514……
I don't think the application will be approved. There was never any reference to mental illness in the doctor's report or even mental "defect." And furthermore his individual circumstances would be exacerbated by the GAD which is a form of phobia rather than a mental deficiency. Roux will effectively stop it and by reexamination of the doctor have her confirm that a mind issue in his particular case was not remotely relevant to his understanding of right vs wrong.
…ring any bells?
So might I suggest if you don’t stop your clueless rantings Masipa will be granting an order for you next.
Also, all this anger at the judge. She *is* being careful but she's covering any opportunity for appeal IMO. Very clever. Remember what Nel said yesterday? The state will argue that OPs evidence on the stand was so unreliable it should not be accepted as truth. A full psych evaluation will be able to establish that he was able and competent to give his version if events - that he wasn't "confused" by a mental disorder but by his own evidence.
Somehow I can't see that happening. It would surely be too inhumane,.
Looking at MIND, anxiety does not cause even psycopathic or sociopathic rage and OP cannot pretend to have a mild anxiety as he has no physical symptoms and does not even qualify for post traumatiic stress disorder. He may have things SINCE he murdered Reeva because of guilt.
Judge Masipa even opened the door for him to use it as a defense now if they find he has any kind of mental "illness." To wit: a general anxiety disorder.
And anyone else that wants to as well. As long as they`re white and wealthy.......
Well Nel stepped in it now---took a perfectly poor case to begin with and made it even less likely for conviction.
I'm ready for another bet. Who wants to take a swing at this pinata?
The psychiatric panel will find the same thing that Dr. Vorster did and it will give great credence to his actions as he testified.
Also if you listened to Judge Masipa, she even gave a clue to her thoughts and how she was thinking as the trial has developed to this point.
My hat is off to that cagey Rouxmeister.
Well played.
I'm not sure where you are getting this idea.
If OP has a psychiatric evaluation, the outcome should still include whether he is fit to stand trial.
They can be depressed, anxious or bipolar and still fit to stand trial.
You can have GAD, BAD or SAD and you are still not allowed legally to kill your girlfriend.
It can also be seen as a move on Roux's part to get him leniency in sentencing.
The only problem I see with a psych evaluation is that it seems to buy into OP's version of events ( that there was a legitimate sound that he magnified) instead of an argument pre-shooting that he denies.
Comments
And I'm sure the qualified psychologists and psychiatrists will know what to look for and will be able to establish that.
Yes I agree. The trouble with general mental disorders are that they are on the whole self reported, but a team working together should be able to get to the truth of the matter, and the truth is really all that does matter.
I am not so shure. He could not even fake a good testimony although he had a year to prepare.
I would not be in the least bit surprised.
It's the fact he can go in and out when he please that bugs me - not that I think they will be biased too him . I would have liked a full assessment there day and night - won't kill him will it ffs
He has been referred for assessment, not to get him off the streets because he is a danger to others, and, as far as I understand it, not for compulsory treatment. This is not a punishment, however much people want it to be.
Spot on!
If it is confirmed, then the prosecution is in the same place as it would have been had DrVs diagnosis would have remained on the record.
I see it as - dismiss DrV's evidence or some of it, and the defense to say they won't push for 'diminished responsibility' at any time.
Then the referral could have not happened.
However, Nel said that OP could sack his Counsel and STILL use it.
On the record without proper challenge and testing, it COULD be used still.
So - it is better for the prosecution that it is AT LEAST confirmed and dealt with.
Because IF this happens, Nel and the prosecution will have info from the examination, and also may be given professional opinion which could HELP refute the idea that OP is not criminally responsible to any degree.
Or at least to ascertain to WHAT degree, and have that on record.
It's GAD, and he doesn't seem to suffer seriously from what we've heard, Dr Vs examination seemed brief and incomplete to the point of bias.
It very well may be that the state experts will come to a different conclusion as to it's IMPORTANCE.
And at the same time, the door will be firmly CLOSED, to use this 'GAD' willy nilly, without the ability to argue, in the trial, or at appeal.
Exactly. How he is now is not relevant to how he was 15 months age.
Exactly , the latter are incarcerated in jail for years at a time awaiting trial.
It does not show SA justice in a good even handed light to the world
Agree, it has to be done, how it's done doesn't matter. And he's on bail anyway.
Of course, and the psychiatric team will take all that into account. They're doing this kind of thing on a daily basis, and know all the tricks and traits. The good thing is, we're going to get an independent evaluation of Oscar's mental state, which means that justice will be able to proceed. Surely that's what everyone wants.
So why are YOU right..?
A young woman lost her life. No sign of intruders, just a woman with her brain blown to bits by OP and his bull-s stories.
Judge Masipa even opened the door for him to use it as a defense now if they find he has any kind of mental "illness." To wit: a general anxiety disorder. It's just been handed to Roux as a gift.
I would bet a mortgage payment they will. Dr Vorster sat on panels for referrals and she didn't even think he should be referred.
How stupid can Nel be.
I'm using my phone, I'm in a rush (getting dressed for a meeting while I have a quick chat) I made a post just before USING HIS NAME so I chucked a he in. I almost always use OP.
While I am aware he will be primed by the defence and be told what GAD entails, won't they see through? Or has no one have faith in the psychiatrists and psychologists that will observe/assess him.
It;s going to be an assessment for everything, not just GAD.
So who was it said at 2514……
I don't think the application will be approved. There was never any reference to mental illness in the doctor's report or even mental "defect." And furthermore his individual circumstances would be exacerbated by the GAD which is a form of phobia rather than a mental deficiency.
Roux will effectively stop it and by reexamination of the doctor have her confirm that a mind issue in his particular case was not remotely relevant to his understanding of right vs wrong.
…ring any bells?
So might I suggest if you don’t stop your clueless rantings Masipa will be granting an order for you next.
Better still – why not just shut
Looking at MIND, anxiety does not cause even psycopathic or sociopathic rage and OP cannot pretend to have a mild anxiety as he has no physical symptoms and does not even qualify for post traumatiic stress disorder. He may have things SINCE he murdered Reeva because of guilt.
Not at all. His remorse is only for what he's landed himself in IMO...
And anyone else that wants to as well. As long as they`re white and wealthy.......
Don't engage, just ignore. ;-)
I'm not sure where you are getting this idea.
If OP has a psychiatric evaluation, the outcome should still include whether he is fit to stand trial.
They can be depressed, anxious or bipolar and still fit to stand trial.
You can have GAD, BAD or SAD and you are still not allowed legally to kill your girlfriend.
It can also be seen as a move on Roux's part to get him leniency in sentencing.
The only problem I see with a psych evaluation is that it seems to buy into OP's version of events ( that there was a legitimate sound that he magnified) instead of an argument pre-shooting that he denies.
He should have been evaluated before the trial and then his plea could have been diminished responsibility if appropriate.
But defence were happy for him to be tried as a "normal" person.
Now when they see they are losing they bring in yet another possible plea.
It's a total disgrace especially to the ordinary people of SA.