I really rated Scholes. I really did. But let's not get it twisted. As good as he was, he wasn't good enough to build the English team around. Not in the middle. It was madness Sven sticking him on the wing and I always felt his best/natural position was the No 10, but let's not forget even SAF shifted Scholes around to accomodate Veron.
I never blamed him for walking away from England and I don't know what he's said about Rooney but if it motivates Wayne to play better then it's all good.
As for transfers, Cesc would have been a definite asset but I'm not too fussed about missing out on him. Not when we've got Mata. I do hope Van Gaal has his players in mind though and isn't swayed just because someone comes out of nowhere like Schillaci (one for the kids there ) and has a blinding world cup.
The treatment David Beckham got after 1998 was just disgusting. Although it did spur him on to stick two fingers up to the press by letting his football do the talking in the next season, so something good did come out of it.
You have just highlighted my favourite reason why I think Becks was a much better winger than Ryan Giggs ever was. Half the talent, twice the heart.
I have just found out that we have the joint most players from one club (along with Bayern) at this World Cup (along with one manager), not bad for a club without European competition to look forward to is it?!
I do hope Van Gaal has his players in mind though and isn't swayed just because someone comes out of nowhere like Schillaci (one for the kids there ) and has a blinding world cup.
You could always rely on him to Hold The Line......
You have just highlighted my favourite reason why I think Becks was a much better winger than Ryan Giggs ever was. Half the talent, twice the heart.
I remember his free kick flying in against Leicester, and his reaction... Basically 'Boo me all you like you arseholes, you're just spurring me on' The way the players celebrated that goal, said everything you needed to know about that team- it just cemented their 'us vs everyone else' mentality even more.
United players don't exactly get an easy ride from the England fans/press- it does make you wonder why they bother.
England exit a tournament and it's like the fans/press immediately look for a United player to make a scapegoat.... Happened to Beckham, Phil Neville, Rooney countless times. Then if they can't find an English United player to go for then a foreign one will do- Ronaldo and the wink.
The treatment David Beckham got after 1998 was just disgusting. Although it did spur him on to stick two fingers up to the press by letting his football do the talking in the next season, so something good did come out of it.
Correct.
Probably the main reason that I can't get behind England too much.
You have just highlighted my favourite reason why I think Becks was a much better winger than Ryan Giggs ever was. Half the talent, twice the heart.
I wouldn't say that he had half the talent of Giggs, Becks was a very talented player in his own right! He was better at crossing, and deadballs than Giggs for sure, where Giggs was better was in the running win the ball, and his speed.
So there was plus and minus for both really.
We have been lucky to have had both of them at the club and as team-mates, as both were amazing to watch, boy how we could do with a peak era Becks and Giggs now! (Rather than Young/Nani/Valencia!)
I remember his free kick flying in against Leicester, and his reaction... Basically 'Boo me all you like you arseholes, you're just spurring me on' The way the players celebrated that goal, said everything you needed to know about that team- it just cemented their 'us vs everyone else' mentality even more.
He always had that mentality, it is what drove him, it is one of the reasons why he even tried his half way line goal, or so many other great goals he scored for us.
His mentality was a winners one, and that just motivated all of those around him, he was a fantastic person to have in the side, he never really needed any extra motivation, but that season (1998/199) brought out the very best him, which was very much to our benefit.
Beckham was one of the most mentally strong players England have had in the modern era - as luck would have it he needed to be.
I would also put Gary Nevile in the most mentally strong players category, he certainly had his own way of doing things (who else would try and get his fellow players to go on strike as he did famously once??!), and was very sure of himself.
So it falls into reason, that both he and Becks were best friends (and still are), as they have that same winners mentality, and drive to succeed, that alot of other players simply do not have.
I would also put Gary Nevile in the most mentally strong players category, he certainly had his own way of doing things (who else would try and get his fellow players to go on strike as he did famously once??!), and was very sure of himself.
Well there is Evra for starters. A lot of players probably would if the circumstances were right.
Beckham was one of the most mentally strong players England have had in the modern era - as luck would have it he needed to be.
Except when it came to kicking out at Argentines. Although kicking out might be a bit strong to describe the incident, "gently caressed" may be closer to the mark.
I think United players may get an easier ride because we're a bit pants at the moment.
well you haven't done a good job of explaining why, the issues you mentioned are the same with every major football nation. gerrard and lampard are still playing for england at 34 and 35 so they obviously haven't found it to be an impossible job, i am glad they didn't throw the towel in like scholes did...
Gerrard and Lampard have been the golden boys forever, why would they give that up? I really wish that other combinations had been tried over the years and then just maybe we might have done better in tournaments. It has never really worked but seemed impossible to break up.
Ever since the treatment handed out to Becks, I could not give a monkeys about international football.
Live in England, used to support England but am actually 25% Scottish so that's my get out clause for now
It'll be "why are Man U players getting selected, they aren't a good team anymore" instead now.
Yep, seen a few people say that. They seem to generally be the same people who had been calling for more players from non-champions league teams for years just to add to the stupidity.
You could always rely on him to Hold The Line......
I Won't Hold You Back from making puns like that.
[QUOTE=batdude_uk1;73019781]I wouldn't say that he had half the talent of Giggs, Becks was a very talented player in his own right! He was better at crossing, and deadballs than Giggs for sure, where Giggs was better was in the running win the ball, and his speed.
So there was plus and minus for both really.
We have been lucky to have had both of them at the club and as team-mates, as both were amazing to watch, boy how we could do with a peak era Becks and Giggs now! (Rather than Young/Nani/Valencia!)
He always had that mentality, it is what drove him, it is one of the reasons why he even tried his half way line goal, or so many other great goals he scored for us.
His mentality was a winners one, and that just motivated all of those around him, he was a fantastic person to have in the side, he never really needed any extra motivation, but that season (1998/199) brought out the very best him, which was very much to our benefit.
[/QUOTE]
I suppose I could get out of it by saying that I was talking about playing off the pitch - but I won't. You're probably right. But "four-fifths the talent", isn't as snappy a line....
.... why hasn't the world cup started already? Everyone's getting crocked in the (not-so) friendlies....
Beckham was one of the most mentally strong players England have had in the modern era - as luck would have it he needed to be.
Agreed. Unfortunately he was also the most vainglorious, solipsist, narcissistic player to ever wear a United shirt. Ultimately his desire to envelop himself in the lore of celebrity cauterized his career.
Agreed. Unfortunately he was also the most vainglorious, solipsist, narcissistic player to ever wear a United shirt. Ultimately his desire to envelop himself in the lore of celebrity cauterized his career.
David Beckham worked hard, and maximised every drop of potential he had. I don't think he has many 'what ifs' or regrets about his career, despite what happened with United.
Ronaldo probably beats him on the vain front too.
Agreed. Unfortunately he was also the most vainglorious, solipsist, narcissistic player to ever wear a United shirt. Ultimately his desire to envelop himself in the lore of celebrity cauterized his career.
Agreed. Unfortunately he was also the most vainglorious, solipsist, narcissistic player to ever wear a United shirt. Ultimately his desire to envelop himself in the lore of celebrity cauterized his career.
Are you serious? I worry for you, if you are.
His career was so 'cauterized' that he went on to play for Real Madrid and AC Milan. Brilliant player, decent bloke, massively underrated.
Comments
I never blamed him for walking away from England and I don't know what he's said about Rooney but if it motivates Wayne to play better then it's all good.
As for transfers, Cesc would have been a definite asset but I'm not too fussed about missing out on him. Not when we've got Mata. I do hope Van Gaal has his players in mind though and isn't swayed just because someone comes out of nowhere like Schillaci (one for the kids there
You have just highlighted my favourite reason why I think Becks was a much better winger than Ryan Giggs ever was. Half the talent, twice the heart.
You could always rely on him to Hold The Line......
I remember his free kick flying in against Leicester, and his reaction... Basically 'Boo me all you like you arseholes, you're just spurring me on' The way the players celebrated that goal, said everything you needed to know about that team- it just cemented their 'us vs everyone else' mentality even more.
Correct.
Probably the main reason that I can't get behind England too much.
I wouldn't say that he had half the talent of Giggs, Becks was a very talented player in his own right! He was better at crossing, and deadballs than Giggs for sure, where Giggs was better was in the running win the ball, and his speed.
So there was plus and minus for both really.
We have been lucky to have had both of them at the club and as team-mates, as both were amazing to watch, boy how we could do with a peak era Becks and Giggs now! (Rather than Young/Nani/Valencia!)
He always had that mentality, it is what drove him, it is one of the reasons why he even tried his half way line goal, or so many other great goals he scored for us.
His mentality was a winners one, and that just motivated all of those around him, he was a fantastic person to have in the side, he never really needed any extra motivation, but that season (1998/199) brought out the very best him, which was very much to our benefit.
I would also put Gary Nevile in the most mentally strong players category, he certainly had his own way of doing things (who else would try and get his fellow players to go on strike as he did famously once??!), and was very sure of himself.
So it falls into reason, that both he and Becks were best friends (and still are), as they have that same winners mentality, and drive to succeed, that alot of other players simply do not have.
Well there is Evra for starters. A lot of players probably would if the circumstances were right.
Except when it came to kicking out at Argentines. Although kicking out might be a bit strong to describe the incident, "gently caressed" may be closer to the mark.
I think United players may get an easier ride because we're a bit pants at the moment.
Gerrard and Lampard have been the golden boys forever, why would they give that up? I really wish that other combinations had been tried over the years and then just maybe we might have done better in tournaments. It has never really worked but seemed impossible to break up.
Ever since the treatment handed out to Becks, I could not give a monkeys about international football.
Live in England, used to support England but am actually 25% Scottish so that's my get out clause for now
Yep, seen a few people say that. They seem to generally be the same people who had been calling for more players from non-champions league teams for years just to add to the stupidity.
[QUOTE=batdude_uk1;73019781]I wouldn't say that he had half the talent of Giggs, Becks was a very talented player in his own right! He was better at crossing, and deadballs than Giggs for sure, where Giggs was better was in the running win the ball, and his speed.
So there was plus and minus for both really.
We have been lucky to have had both of them at the club and as team-mates, as both were amazing to watch, boy how we could do with a peak era Becks and Giggs now! (Rather than Young/Nani/Valencia!)
He always had that mentality, it is what drove him, it is one of the reasons why he even tried his half way line goal, or so many other great goals he scored for us.
His mentality was a winners one, and that just motivated all of those around him, he was a fantastic person to have in the side, he never really needed any extra motivation, but that season (1998/199) brought out the very best him, which was very much to our benefit.
[/QUOTE]
I suppose I could get out of it by saying that I was talking about playing off the pitch - but I won't. You're probably right. But "four-fifths the talent", isn't as snappy a line....
.... why hasn't the world cup started already? Everyone's getting crocked in the (not-so) friendlies....
Agreed. Unfortunately he was also the most vainglorious, solipsist, narcissistic player to ever wear a United shirt. Ultimately his desire to envelop himself in the lore of celebrity cauterized his career.
I never swallow.
David Beckham worked hard, and maximised every drop of potential he had. I don't think he has many 'what ifs' or regrets about his career, despite what happened with United.
Ronaldo probably beats him on the vain front too.
I blame Victoria.
Are you serious? I worry for you, if you are.
His career was so 'cauterized' that he went on to play for Real Madrid and AC Milan. Brilliant player, decent bloke, massively underrated.
Rebecca Loos says hi. ;-)
A vacuous, fame-seeking tart? I'll leave her to it, thanks.
That's as maybe, but it still takes two to tango.
Do you know for certain that anything actually happened?