No, paedophile groups of all races have been going on for years. It's really hard to prosecute them without evidence.
I took a guy to court for abuse. It went like this:
Magistrate: what colour was his carpet?
Me: I don't remember
Magistrate: what kind of wallpaper did he have?
Me: I don't remember.
Case was then dismissed as I had proved to have a bad memory and wasn't reliable. Never mind that I could remember everything that he had done to me. They didn't even ask me about that. My experience of how the courts deal with these things is very common and only recently attitudes have started to change.
Not true that though is it?
It would have been stopped straight away and if the police didn't stop it then the Asian community would have stopped it.
1400 Asian kids abused by white men and Rotherham would be rubble.
The inquiry team noted fears among council staff of being labelled "racist" if they focused on victims' description of the majority of abusers as "Asian" men.
Yes thats what I said, but nothing in the article to suggest they werent pursued and prosecuted because of race.
With today's report about Asian rape/sexual exploitation gangs in Rotheram, there surely can be no doubt left that we, as a society, have developed a massive problem with discussing the issue of race. People in the position to act on reports of these crimes were hesitant to do so fear for of causing offence, being labelled as "racist". This must certainly have contributed to a culture whereby those perpetrators could continue to commit their horrible crimes with impunity.
But I can't help but feel some small measure of sympathy with their position. It's something we see all the time in the media now, any mention of race (other than white, of course) is a potential fire-storm. You can't say anything as a public figure the least bit negative or critical without the professional complainers and pressure groups demanding your job at the very least, often even insisting on criminal charges being looked into!
I just can't understand how or why it has come to this. We're now at a position where we're allowing the mass abuse of children rather than run the risk of upsetting a small section of the populace. How did minorities come to wield such fearsome power, and do you think this will signal the beginning of a decline in such backwards logic, or are we doomed to just keep going further down this path where certain groups can just do what they like, knowing if they're caught out they can cry "racism!" and avoid any comeback whatsoever?
I can't find anything at all which states that the ethnicity of the perpetrators hampered this enquiry or anyone from coming forward. I've read every link from the page you gave. I did find this
Thousands of crimes
The abuse of young girls in Rotherham, and also in Rochdale, Greater Manchester, came to light after a series of investigations by The Times.
The newspaper claimed documents it obtained show agencies were aware of extensive and co-ordinated abuse of white girls by some Asian men in Rotherham for which no one has been prosecuted.
The paper said a confidential 2010 police report warned that thousands of such crimes were committed in South Yorkshire each year.
South Yorkshire Police have previously denied any suggestion they had been reluctant to tackle child sexual abuse and pointed to a series of successful criminal convictions.
Mr Crompton was asked today if "ethnic origin was a factor" in the Crown Prosecution Service charging suspects. "No, it's not a factor at all," he said.
Will you tell me where it says otherwise please if this as their ethnicity seems to be major part of your objection to the atrocious handling of this case?
I can't find anything at all which states that the ethnicity of the perpetrators hampered this enquiry or anyone from coming forward. I've read every link from the page you gave. I did find this
Will you tell me where it says otherwise please if this as their ethnicity seems to be major part of your objection to the atrocious handling of this case?
The inquiry team noted fears among council staff of being labelled "racist" if they focused on victims' description of the majority of abusers as "Asian" men.
...
'Racism' fear
The report found: "Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so."
Not sure how you could miss, or misinterpret, that really.
It would have been bad enough if they had been using the girls for their own personal sexual uses,. The real telling thing is the way that they trafficked the girls around the country and made use of drugs and violence to control them. That shows the kind of attitudes they have.
On the original link I provided:
Not sure how you could miss, or misinterpret, that really.
Yes to the inquiry team looking at the mismanagement of the case. What has that got to do with the ethnicity of the perpetrators hampering the police in their job and others from coming forward? As I posted before it has been categorically denied that ethnicity had anything to do with their gross incompetence.
Yes to the inquiry team looking at the mismanagement of the case. What has that got to do with the ethnicity of the perpetrators hampering the police in their job and others from coming forward? As I posted before it has been categorically denied that ethnicity had anything to do with their gross incompetence.
I think you'll find that's more of an issue for the thread discussing the ins and outs of the case itself (although it puzzles me how you can't see that social services reluctance to identify a racial trend in the perpetrators could hamper the case). This thread is about the issue of racial over sensitivity and it's negative impact on society.
I think you'll find that's more of an issue for the thread discussing the ins and outs of the case itself (although it puzzles me how you can't see that social services reluctance to identify a racial trend in the perpetrators could hamper the case). This thread is about the issue of racial over sensitivity and it's negative impact on society.
No the fact is you stated that it had hampered the case and stopped people coming forward , not the inquiry into the mismanagement. Now you've changed it to a racial trend. Bit of a red herring?
People in the position to act on reports of these crimes were hesitant to do so fear for of causing offence, being labelled as "racist
"
Guess what there's a trend for child abuse of every kind across all races.
No the fact is you stated that it had hampered the case and stopped people coming forward , not the inquiry into the mismanagement. Now you've changed it to a racial trend. Bit of a red herring?
If you're going to play the argumentative pedant card it's important you get it right, I said nothing of the kind.
Guess what there's a trend for child abuse of every kind across all races.
So let's identify all trends we can and do something about them, instead of shying away for fear of upsetting big babies.
If you're going to play the argumentative pedant card it's important you get it right, I said nothing of the kind.
So let's identify all trends we can and do something about them, instead of shying away for fear of upsetting big babies.
I quoted you saying just that. Not pedantic just realistic. I am not arguing that child abuse should not be taken more seriously either, having been professionally involved in the outcome of it for years. This is hardly something new. Shying away? If that does happen it's a tiny fragment of the whole picture. Children are often not believed , feel they are the guilty party, have no-one they would dare tell for fear of embarrassment or punishment from the person they tell, or are under threat to keep quiet. Sort that lot out and it will be a miracle.
You really didn't. You misinterpreted what I did say and ran with it, if you go back you'll see I didn't say the perpetrators' race "hampered the investigation and stopped people coming forward".
What I said was...
People in the position to act on reports of these crimes were hesitant to do so fear for of causing offence, being labelled as "racist". This must certainly have contributed to a culture whereby those perpetrators could continue to commit their horrible crimes with impunity
Not surprised in the slightest to read people bending over backwards to deny that race, or rather the atmosphere of fear created around the mention of race (or religion, or culture, or anything that might distinguish a minority), played any part in hampering the investigations into this abuse.
It's patently obvious to everybody except those being disingenuous or burying their heads in the sand that, despite their protestations to the contrary, the inconvenient fact that the vast majority of these abusers were Asian (or more specifically Pakistani) and the vast majority of their victims white will have made the authorities reluctant to tackle this problem with the same rigorousness they would under other circumstances.
The fear of provoking a reaction in a minority community, and accusations of racism and a witch hunt from activists and the media, will inevitably have played a part in the authorities' negligence, despite their mealy-mouthed denials.
Even now, the reaction from some in the media, questioning the scale of the coverage and the language used, offers a small glimpse into the sort of critical reaction the authorities will have been fearful of.
If people can desperately try to play down the issues of race and culture, even after multiple instances of such abuse, thorough investigations and with the patterns of abuse staring them in the face, then imagine what the reaction would have been when the abuse was not so painfully stark and evidenced.
Frankly, all those still crying foul and desperately trying to downplay the racial (and religious and cultural) elements of this abuse are merely proving the OP's point about the environment of fear and over-cautiousness that has been created in this country around the issue of race.
These people often quote the abuses committed by those in the Church as an example of how other abuses have been ignored or suppressed. However, if somebody claimed that the fact that those abuses took place in the Church was irrelevant and that a fear of tackling such a thorny issue in such a sensitive organisation played no part in the authorities' reluctance to tackle the issue, they would rightly shoot them down. Yet dare to point out a prominent common denominator in these abuses and suggest that it may have played a part in the failure to deal with the issue, and those same people will go to desperate lengths to dismiss the relevance.
When people are so desperately eager, still, to downplay and gloss over pertinent factors in these abuses then it really shows the extent to which some people put their personal and political ideologies ahead of what's best for society, and even the most vulnerable in society.
You really didn't. You misinterpreted what I did say and ran with it, if you go back you'll see I didn't say the perpetrators' race "hampered the investigation and stopped people coming forward".
What I said was...
The first part of that sentence is what I was referring to. Now who's being pedantic? People were not hesitant to act on the reports, from anything I've read, just on the naming of ethnicity to the inquirers into the mess. If that wasn't what you meant fair enough but I can't see what the ethnicity of the perpetrators has to do with anything of importance, which was what you were basing the thread around.
I did try to take the discussion to the reasons for legally dealing with child sexual abuse or otherwise not being quite as simplistic as many believe, just for you, rather than dwell on ethnicity, which seemd to be the point of the thread, as you requested. !:D
This whole case has really shocked me. It really gives you faith in the authorities who are supposed to be there to protect us doesn't it? I'm fairly liberal, but even I can see that we've come to a point where political correctness can actually be dangerous. However I'm sure those in the police involved will, as usual, get the chance to resign with dignity, maybe with a nice payout too. They close ranks and protect themselves.
The first part of that sentence is what I was referring to. Now who's being pedantic? People were not hesitant to act on the reports, from anything I've read, just on the naming of ethnicity to the inquirers into the mess. If that wasn't what you meant fair enough but I can't see what the ethnicity of the perpetrators has to do with anything of importance, which was what you were basing the thread around.
It's a pretty important trait in helping to identify them. Bit silly to leave it out, kind of like when you get those crime appeals that will mention a suspect's age, height, clothing etc...but not their skin colour, lest anyone be offended!
I did try to take the discussion to the reasons for legally dealing with child sexual abuse or otherwise not being quite as simplistic as many believe, just for you, rather than dwell on ethnicity, which seemd to be the point of the thread, as you requested. !:D
Feel free to do that in the thread about child sexual abuse if you like, it seems more fitting.
With today's report about Asian rape/sexual exploitation gangs in Rotheram, there surely can be no doubt left that we, as a society, have developed a massive problem with discussing the issue of race. People in the position to act on reports of these crimes were hesitant to do so fear for of causing offence, being labelled as "racist". This must certainly have contributed to a culture whereby those perpetrators could continue to commit their horrible crimes with impunity.
But I can't help but feel some small measure of sympathy with their position. It's something we see all the time in the media now, any mention of race (other than white, of course) is a potential fire-storm. You can't say anything as a public figure the least bit negative or critical without the professional complainers and pressure groups demanding your job at the very least, often even insisting on criminal charges being looked into!
I just can't understand how or why it has come to this. We're now at a position where we're allowing the mass abuse of children rather than run the risk of upsetting a small section of the populace. How did minorities come to wield such fearsome power, and do you think this will signal the beginning of a decline in such backwards logic, or are we doomed to just keep going further down this path where certain groups can just do what they like, knowing if they're caught out they can cry "racism!" and avoid any comeback whatsoever?
See people regardless of their race, or background can commit crimes. Anyone can commit crimes. Why does ethnicity matter so much?
Should we be afraid of white people because of the recent paedophilia from likes of Jimmy Saville? Is there something genetic or a cultural problem?
So easy to cast stones.
Yes, the people in your post happen to be of Asian Background and they certainly aren't the first nor the last to commit heinious crimes. The question should not be race or ethnicity but rather the death penalty for these types of crimes.
See people regardless of their race, or background can commit crimes. Anyone can commit crimes. Why does ethnicity matter so much?
Should we be afraid of white people because of the recent paedophilia from likes of Jimmy Saville? Is there something genetic or a cultural problem?
So easy to cast stones.
Yes, the people in your post happen to be of Asian Background and they certainly aren't the first nor the last to commit heinious crimes. The question should not be race or ethnicity but rather the death penalty for these types of crimes.
Actually it can matter if there are cultural, or religious reasons motivating the crimes.
Well it's the only answer you want to hear. There have been questions on whether cultural and racial sensitivity affected investigation. Sure talk about but please stop talking bollocks about lefty liberals and Guardian readers. You sound like The Daily Mail.
Not surprised in the slightest to read people bending over backwards to deny that race, or rather the atmosphere of fear created around the mention of race (or religion, or culture, or anything that might distinguish a minority), played any part in hampering the investigations into this abuse.
It's patently obvious to everybody except those being disingenuous or burying their heads in the sand that, despite their protestations to the contrary, the inconvenient fact that the vast majority of these abusers were Asian (or more specifically Pakistani) and the vast majority of their victims white will have made the authorities reluctant to tackle this problem with the same rigorousness they would under other circumstances.
The fear of provoking a reaction in a minority community, and accusations of racism and a witch hunt from activists and the media, will inevitably have played a part in the authorities' negligence, despite their mealy-mouthed denials.
Even now, the reaction from some in the media, questioning the scale of the coverage and the language used, offers a small glimpse into the sort of critical reaction the authorities will have been fearful of.
If people can desperately try to play down the issues of race and culture, even after multiple instances of such abuse, thorough investigations and with the patterns of abuse staring them in the face, then imagine what the reaction would have been when the abuse was not so painfully stark and evidenced.
Frankly, all those still crying foul and desperately trying to downplay the racial (and religious and cultural) elements of this abuse are merely proving the OP's point about the environment of fear and over-cautiousness that has been created in this country around the issue of race.
These people often quote the abuses committed by those in the Church as an example of how other abuses have been ignored or suppressed. However, if somebody claimed that the fact that those abuses took place in the Church was irrelevant and that a fear of tackling such a thorny issue in such a sensitive organisation played no part in the authorities' reluctance to tackle the issue, they would rightly shoot them down. Yet dare to point out a prominent common denominator in these abuses and suggest that it may have played a part in the failure to deal with the issue, and those same people will go to desperate lengths to dismiss the relevance.
When people are so desperately eager, still, to downplay and gloss over pertinent factors in these abuses then it really shows the extent to which some people put their personal and political ideologies ahead of what's best for society, and even the most vulnerable in society.
It's pretty despicable.
Excellent post which pretty much nails the entire thing.
BBC news interviewed a woman now in her 20's who was the victim of a Pakistani child sex abuse gang at the age of 14. She says that the authorities knew all about one of the ringleaders but refused to act, because the fear of causing racial/religious tension between the different communities was treated as more important than children being sexually abused and exploited. This was to the extent that the perpetrator in question became cocky and started to view himself as invincible.
The authorities are going to have to bite the bullet on this one, and if it causes tensions, that's too bad. I think to the vast majority of decent people, that will be preferable to little girls being sexually abused and raped.
Comments
Not true that though is it?
It would have been stopped straight away and if the police didn't stop it then the Asian community would have stopped it.
1400 Asian kids abused by white men and Rotherham would be rubble.
Yes thats what I said, but nothing in the article to suggest they werent pursued and prosecuted because of race.
The UK has never been close to left-wing.
I can't find anything at all which states that the ethnicity of the perpetrators hampered this enquiry or anyone from coming forward. I've read every link from the page you gave. I did find this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-19966721
Will you tell me where it says otherwise please if this as their ethnicity seems to be major part of your objection to the atrocious handling of this case?
Yes to the inquiry team looking at the mismanagement of the case. What has that got to do with the ethnicity of the perpetrators hampering the police in their job and others from coming forward? As I posted before it has been categorically denied that ethnicity had anything to do with their gross incompetence.
http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/inquiry
No the fact is you stated that it had hampered the case and stopped people coming forward , not the inquiry into the mismanagement. Now you've changed it to a racial trend. Bit of a red herring? "
Guess what there's a trend for child abuse of every kind across all races.
I quoted you saying just that. Not pedantic just realistic. I am not arguing that child abuse should not be taken more seriously either, having been professionally involved in the outcome of it for years. This is hardly something new. Shying away? If that does happen it's a tiny fragment of the whole picture. Children are often not believed , feel they are the guilty party, have no-one they would dare tell for fear of embarrassment or punishment from the person they tell, or are under threat to keep quiet. Sort that lot out and it will be a miracle.
What I said was...
It's patently obvious to everybody except those being disingenuous or burying their heads in the sand that, despite their protestations to the contrary, the inconvenient fact that the vast majority of these abusers were Asian (or more specifically Pakistani) and the vast majority of their victims white will have made the authorities reluctant to tackle this problem with the same rigorousness they would under other circumstances.
The fear of provoking a reaction in a minority community, and accusations of racism and a witch hunt from activists and the media, will inevitably have played a part in the authorities' negligence, despite their mealy-mouthed denials.
Even now, the reaction from some in the media, questioning the scale of the coverage and the language used, offers a small glimpse into the sort of critical reaction the authorities will have been fearful of.
If people can desperately try to play down the issues of race and culture, even after multiple instances of such abuse, thorough investigations and with the patterns of abuse staring them in the face, then imagine what the reaction would have been when the abuse was not so painfully stark and evidenced.
Frankly, all those still crying foul and desperately trying to downplay the racial (and religious and cultural) elements of this abuse are merely proving the OP's point about the environment of fear and over-cautiousness that has been created in this country around the issue of race.
These people often quote the abuses committed by those in the Church as an example of how other abuses have been ignored or suppressed. However, if somebody claimed that the fact that those abuses took place in the Church was irrelevant and that a fear of tackling such a thorny issue in such a sensitive organisation played no part in the authorities' reluctance to tackle the issue, they would rightly shoot them down. Yet dare to point out a prominent common denominator in these abuses and suggest that it may have played a part in the failure to deal with the issue, and those same people will go to desperate lengths to dismiss the relevance.
When people are so desperately eager, still, to downplay and gloss over pertinent factors in these abuses then it really shows the extent to which some people put their personal and political ideologies ahead of what's best for society, and even the most vulnerable in society.
It's pretty despicable.
The first part of that sentence is what I was referring to. Now who's being pedantic? People were not hesitant to act on the reports, from anything I've read, just on the naming of ethnicity to the inquirers into the mess. If that wasn't what you meant fair enough but I can't see what the ethnicity of the perpetrators has to do with anything of importance, which was what you were basing the thread around.
I did try to take the discussion to the reasons for legally dealing with child sexual abuse or otherwise not being quite as simplistic as many believe, just for you, rather than dwell on ethnicity, which seemd to be the point of the thread, as you requested. !:D
you do know there were plenty of non irish paedophiles in the Catholic Church right?
Feel free to do that in the thread about child sexual abuse if you like, it seems more fitting.
Recent
Jimmy Saville -white British and Christian
Rolf Harris - white and Athiest
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333420/Paedophile-ring-groomed-young-girls-abusing-cottage.html
See people regardless of their race, or background can commit crimes. Anyone can commit crimes. Why does ethnicity matter so much?
Should we be afraid of white people because of the recent paedophilia from likes of Jimmy Saville? Is there something genetic or a cultural problem?
So easy to cast stones.
Yes, the people in your post happen to be of Asian Background and they certainly aren't the first nor the last to commit heinious crimes. The question should not be race or ethnicity but rather the death penalty for these types of crimes.
Seems so. Which means we are also destined to repeat history if we don't learn from the report that was produced.
There is no such thing as a 'Celtic' race. Irish people are just Caucasian.
Actually it can matter if there are cultural, or religious reasons motivating the crimes.
Excellent post which pretty much nails the entire thing.
BBC news interviewed a woman now in her 20's who was the victim of a Pakistani child sex abuse gang at the age of 14. She says that the authorities knew all about one of the ringleaders but refused to act, because the fear of causing racial/religious tension between the different communities was treated as more important than children being sexually abused and exploited. This was to the extent that the perpetrator in question became cocky and started to view himself as invincible.
The authorities are going to have to bite the bullet on this one, and if it causes tensions, that's too bad. I think to the vast majority of decent people, that will be preferable to little girls being sexually abused and raped.