So your quite happy for an 88 year old to drive around with a loaded gun, worse he forgot it was loaded! I agree a prison sentence is not what was required, and he should of had his guns taken away. But the Police must take some blame, if he showed a total lack of care over his guns, when they visited him before, why weren't they taken from him then?
Where did I say I am happy for people to drive around with loaded guns?
I'm not happy for people to do that - but I think two years in prison is excessive.
It would take 20 seconds to load a shotgun. So the difference between having a shotgun on your back seat and two cartridges in your pocket, compared to having the cartridges in the shotgun, is two years in prison.
Sorry but it's not. If a forgetful old person kills someone with their car because they hit the accelerator rather than the brake, they are still responsible for that death. They chose to get into the car knowing they were perhaps no longer fit to drive it.
This guy has taken a loaded gun out in public where it could have posed a danger (particularly if it'd been stolen). Forgetfulness is no excuse. He also failed to comply with any of the laws to do with how he must safely store his guns at home. That's a worrying and downright dangerous disregard for the regulations that, as a responsible gun owner, you have to stick to.
We can't let people off for serious crimes simply because of their age. The UK's gun law are tough for a reason and they work.
Yes the gun laws are tough but you find that most gun crime in this country is done with illegaly held firearms. I don't deny this old boy was stupid but 2 years inside is wrong. It should have been a suspended sentence.
It's not an illegal firearm. It's a legally-held shotgun. And the old boy is 88 and of a confused state of mind. He may have simply forgotten to unload it. That's reasonable to presume, and with that being the case, two years in prison is excessive.
In my opinion, two years in prison for forgetting to unload your shotgun would be excessive if it was a 28 year old.
Which is even worse as he is not fit to hold a gun license.
Would we be as sympathetic if the "confused old boy" accidentally shot someone because he thought it was unloaded?
Which is even worse as he is not fit to hold a gun license.
Would we be as sympathetic if the "confused old boy" accidentally shot someone because he thought it was unloaded?
But he hasn't.
If a drunk driver loses control and crashes into a tree, damaging his car, the outcome for him isn't going to be the same as if he'd lost control in exactly the same way, and ploughed into a bus stop full of people, killing several of them.
Where did I say I am happy for people to drive around with loaded guns?
I'm not happy for people to do that - but I think two years in prison is excessive.
It would take 20 seconds to load a shotgun. So the difference between having a shotgun on your back seat and two cartridges in your pocket, compared to having the cartridges in the shotgun, is two years in prison.
It takes no where near 20 secs to load a shotgun, case is a confused person was driving around with a loaded gun.. end of story.
Now should that person have had access to a gun, no he shouldn't and there I lay the blame with the Police.
If a drunk driver loses control and crashes into a tree, damaging his car, the outcome for him isn't going to be the same as if he'd lost control in exactly the same way, and ploughed into a bus stop full of people, killing several of them.
True the exception is if you are driving a Bin Lorry in Glasgow.
If a drunk driver loses control and crashes into a tree, damaging his car, the outcome for him isn't going to be the same as if he'd lost control in exactly the same way, and ploughed into a bus stop full of people, killing several of them.
But when someone does, will you be screaming "why didn't the police act sooner"
You may have noticed that I also said that I think 2 years in prison is excessive even for a 28 year old who has forgotten to unload their shotgun.
I don't. If you have a gun licence there's a huge amount of responsibility that comes with it. You need to be aware of the consequences and not careless.
That said, he is NOT GUILTY based on what I read above. It was an easy mistake that anyone could have made and I wouldn't have thought he's much of a threat to the public, unlike the the many, many people I read about.
He is if he leaves loaded guns in his car and doesn't secure them properly in his home. Easy targets for criminal thieves (which is part of the reason WHY you are legally required to store them securely).
We get it, you're quite happy to see a frail, defenceless old man go to jail for 2 years, just for a momentary lapse of memory, forgivable at any age, let alone his.
His momentary lapse of memory was over a loaded gun - that's a damn serious lapse! As I said, if he'd had a lapse of memory in his car and killed someone, he'd still be liable, no matter how old. He took on a position of responsibility when he took on a gun licence. If he knew he was likely to be forgetful then it was his responsibility to hand them in. He was unfit to hold a gun licence and showed a serious disregard to several terms of his licence.
The normal minimum sentence for carrying a loaded gun is 5 years. He was given 2. He'll undoubtedly be out in less.
He also failed to secure his weapons which can also carry a prison sentence or hefty fine. Considering he broke 2 serious laws the sentence is fair.
True the exception is if you are driving a Bin Lorry in Glasgow.
Indeed - how come he's lied about his blackouts, killed several people and avoids prosecution, yet the old boy who hasn't lied, hasn't killed anyone, but simply had a lapse in memory, gets prosecuted and two years inside?
The law is literally an "ass", strict liability offence in the old boy's case, or no ^_^
June Roper, 68, of Hilgay, said: “I’m telling you, my dad wouldn’t harm a fly.”
She added: “I haven’t yet heard from him, but I have written to the prison governor to see if he can be transferred to Watton. “That would be much easier. But dad doesn’t like a fuss; he isn’t a fussy man.”
While a spokesman for the Crown Prosecution Service in the East of England said: “An expert firearm report confirmed that the gun was in working order and after reviewing the evidence from the police, we decided there was sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction and, given the serious risks of having a loaded firearm in public, that it was in the public interest to prosecute.”
(IE he was an easy target).
Also this article shows he lives in Salters Lode which is 9 miles from Emneth. That area has been plagued with crime and break in's. The break in's at his house were not reported to the police. Due to the fact they still don't do anything. The Tony Martin incident changed nothing.
The only thing that the CPS cares about now - the crime figures are 'improved', but you can run about major towns and cities form Thursday to Sunday, act like drunken hoodlums and nothing is done.
Society is safe now this old man has been locked away.
The only thing that the CPS cares about now - the crime figures are 'improved', but you can run about major towns and cities form Thursday to Sunday, act like drunken hoodlums and nothing is done.
Society is safe now this old man has been locked away.
Which is more than his housebound wife is. Now it's known she is on her own and vunerable. The chance of another break in is much higher.
The police in Wisbech about 10 miles away from Salters Lode still have not found the people who broke in and murdered an 86 year old woman then burnt her remains.
This was 2 years ago and they police at the time thought it was an accident.
Which is even worse as he is not fit to hold a gun license.
Would we be as sympathetic if the "confused old boy" accidentally shot someone because he thought it was unloaded?
I would like to think he is not the type of person who would point a gun loaded or unloaded at someone in the first place with the risk of shooting them accidently.
If he was the type, then I personally wouldn't have any sympathy as it would be irresponsible for anyone to point a gun at someone even if they thought it was unloaded.
I think this is quite heartless of the judge, considering this man's age, frail health including that of his wife's who he was caring for.
I Agree. Who is going to care for his wife now? maybe she'll have to go in a home.
The Police would have a field day in our village. I reckon most of the old farmers have loaded shotguns in their trucks.
poor old boy will probably die in prison. I know young men who have been done for very serious driving offences, almost killing people and they get just a fine. My friend is now in a wheelchair thanks to one of them. He got a few points and a fine.
The problem here is how much should someone's age matter when they commit a criminal offence. Had a 28 year old done this would people be so outraged? I doubt it - but the offence is the same and the penalties, which are not kept secret, should surely be the same. Of course sentencing could take account of circumstances - such as the difficulties of an elderly man in the current prison system, or the fact that he is the carer for his elderly wife.... but if the 28 year old had a disability or was a single parent should they be treated leniently?
Whatever some idiot youths have done, this man has no right to carry a loaded gun around. To even insinuate that was the reason is deeply worrying. If it was the reason then he deserves the prison sentence.
If, as he claims, he forgot it was loaded then he's clearly not fit to hold a firearms licence. Whether that warrants a custodial sentence is 50/50. He's old, he made a mistake. But at the same time it's a potentially very danger mistake and the UK takes gun law very seriously and I wouldn't want to see them relaxed.
It also says that when they visited his home he showed blatant and dangerous disregard for the storage of his guns (all of which have since been removed). The normal minimum sentence for these offences is 5 years. He was lucky to get 2. Seems like a fair sentence to me in the circumstances.
He didn't say that, he said he was 'sure he had unloaded before he got in his car' which is quite possible and doesn't necessarily mean he'd forgotten.
Adding what you said in the last para I'm wondering if the cops said it was loaded so they could have the gun off him and also his licence.
Sorry but it's not. If a forgetful old person kills someone with their car because they hit the accelerator rather than the brake, they are still responsible for that death. They chose to get into the car knowing they were perhaps no longer fit to drive it.
This guy has taken a loaded gun out in public where it could have posed a danger (particularly if it'd been stolen). Forgetfulness is no excuse. He also failed to comply with any of the laws to do with how he must safely store his guns at home. That's a worrying and downright dangerous disregard for the regulations that, as a responsible gun owner, you have to stick to.
We can't let people off for serious crimes simply because of their age. The UK's gun law are tough for a reason and they work.
Surely a fine and confiscation of his guns would have been sufficient? By all accounts, the local yobs don't face any penalties for their crimes. This old man has never harmed anyone or broken any laws till now.. Seems a brutal sentence to me considering all the circumstances.
Which is even worse as he is not fit to hold a gun license.
H
Would we be as sympathetic if the "confused old boy" accidentally shot someone because he thought it was unloaded?
But he didn't. You get sentenced according to what you have done. In this case, mercy would have een appropriate.
Do we want loaded guns on our streets, no we don't , but removal of his licence and a suspended sentence would have been suffice especially bearing in mind his home circumstances and caring for his wife.
This lady stabs her partner "by accident" and gets a suspended sentence
Personally whilst I agree the man was wrong and if he forgot it was loaded then he should not have the gun I do believe the CPS and court have used him to make an example in an easy case.
Comments
Where did I say I am happy for people to drive around with loaded guns?
I'm not happy for people to do that - but I think two years in prison is excessive.
It would take 20 seconds to load a shotgun. So the difference between having a shotgun on your back seat and two cartridges in your pocket, compared to having the cartridges in the shotgun, is two years in prison.
Yes the gun laws are tough but you find that most gun crime in this country is done with illegaly held firearms. I don't deny this old boy was stupid but 2 years inside is wrong. It should have been a suspended sentence.
Which is even worse as he is not fit to hold a gun license.
Would we be as sympathetic if the "confused old boy" accidentally shot someone because he thought it was unloaded?
Straw man.
But he hasn't.
If a drunk driver loses control and crashes into a tree, damaging his car, the outcome for him isn't going to be the same as if he'd lost control in exactly the same way, and ploughed into a bus stop full of people, killing several of them.
It takes no where near 20 secs to load a shotgun, case is a confused person was driving around with a loaded gun.. end of story.
Now should that person have had access to a gun, no he shouldn't and there I lay the blame with the Police.
True the exception is if you are driving a Bin Lorry in Glasgow.
But when someone does, will you be screaming "why didn't the police act sooner"
I don't. If you have a gun licence there's a huge amount of responsibility that comes with it. You need to be aware of the consequences and not careless.
He is if he leaves loaded guns in his car and doesn't secure them properly in his home. Easy targets for criminal thieves (which is part of the reason WHY you are legally required to store them securely).
His momentary lapse of memory was over a loaded gun - that's a damn serious lapse! As I said, if he'd had a lapse of memory in his car and killed someone, he'd still be liable, no matter how old. He took on a position of responsibility when he took on a gun licence. If he knew he was likely to be forgetful then it was his responsibility to hand them in. He was unfit to hold a gun licence and showed a serious disregard to several terms of his licence.
The normal minimum sentence for carrying a loaded gun is 5 years. He was given 2. He'll undoubtedly be out in less.
He also failed to secure his weapons which can also carry a prison sentence or hefty fine. Considering he broke 2 serious laws the sentence is fair.
Indeed - how come he's lied about his blackouts, killed several people and avoids prosecution, yet the old boy who hasn't lied, hasn't killed anyone, but simply had a lapse in memory, gets prosecuted and two years inside?
The law is literally an "ass", strict liability offence in the old boy's case, or no ^_^
The only thing that the CPS cares about now - the crime figures are 'improved', but you can run about major towns and cities form Thursday to Sunday, act like drunken hoodlums and nothing is done.
Society is safe now this old man has been locked away.
Which is more than his housebound wife is. Now it's known she is on her own and vunerable. The chance of another break in is much higher.
The police in Wisbech about 10 miles away from Salters Lode still have not found the people who broke in and murdered an 86 year old woman then burnt her remains.
This was 2 years ago and they police at the time thought it was an accident.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-who-slit-elderly-womans-5434997
I would like to think he is not the type of person who would point a gun loaded or unloaded at someone in the first place with the risk of shooting them accidently.
If he was the type, then I personally wouldn't have any sympathy as it would be irresponsible for anyone to point a gun at someone even if they thought it was unloaded.
I Agree. Who is going to care for his wife now? maybe she'll have to go in a home.
The Police would have a field day in our village. I reckon most of the old farmers have loaded shotguns in their trucks.
poor old boy will probably die in prison. I know young men who have been done for very serious driving offences, almost killing people and they get just a fine. My friend is now in a wheelchair thanks to one of them. He got a few points and a fine.
He had a loaded gun in his car.
Looks like the legal advice he had was terrible.
Should have simply said it was a foolish mistake and he had given up his licence.
Talking about his troubles was a terrible idea in this case as they will link the two and not to his benefit.
Yes I thought that was all a bit odd.
Maybe he had divulged it to the Police when he was arrested - thinking they might have sympathy with him.
I don't think his age matters you can't let people get away with crimes just because they are old.
And as said if he really did forget to unload it then he could have hurt anyone inc himself or his wife.
He didn't say that, he said he was 'sure he had unloaded before he got in his car' which is quite possible and doesn't necessarily mean he'd forgotten.
Adding what you said in the last para I'm wondering if the cops said it was loaded so they could have the gun off him and also his licence.
I'm with Elyan on this.
But he didn't. You get sentenced according to what you have done. In this case, mercy would have een appropriate.
This lady stabs her partner "by accident" and gets a suspended sentence
http://www.buryfreepress.co.uk/news/local/latest-news/bury-st-edmunds-woman-gets-suspended-sentence-for-stabbing-partner-1-6872491
Sexual assault, nine months suspended
http://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/newnham_man_given_suspended_sentence_after_sexually_assaulting_girl_1_3855822
Carrying a machete, suspended sentence
http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/suspended_sentence_for_carrying_knife_1_724564
Personally whilst I agree the man was wrong and if he forgot it was loaded then he should not have the gun I do believe the CPS and court have used him to make an example in an easy case.