Well then, you can't really argue that The BBC is not offering anything distinct from commercial radio can you.
Andy, my argument over Radio 2 is that it is indistinct in genres plyaed in the day from other stations. 3, 5 , 5Live & 7 are distinct. I have no beef of those stations.
I hope that clears the misunderstanding up.
I think you might find that those stations do pretty well on Saturday evenings, don't forget listening behaviour is very different in 2010 in these areas then they were in a city like Liverpool 30 years ago. Richard Spendlove's show does pretty well also.
My contention is that these off-peak hours are when The BBC should be putting out these specialist programmes. Those people who do have an interest in these niche programmes can make an appointment to listen at these times. This is a key part of The BBC's public service obligations.
.
I quite agree but you might as well pod or internet them for the few hundred listening.
I am being drawn in to a campaign to suggest a 70 years local presenter should be on radio 2.
Is that A) Because of his choice of tracks? Because he is old?
Yours etc
59 years old ex BBC guy who can also link records:o
(and looks aged)
I quite agree but you might as well pod or internet them for the few hundred listening.
old pilot,
I'm really disappointed with your recent postings.
Pod or internet specialist 10.00pm programmes? Do you think people always want to sit in their computer room/area listening to webcasts of their favoutite music? I don't think so. Certainly not good music recorded and meant to played in hi-fi stereo.
Part of the enjoyment of listening to radio is that you share your enjoyment with thousands of others at the sme time, it's just more satisfying that way.
Ghosh that does not say much for the rest of the output..The music is fine but he sounds as dull as fen ditch water.
Sadly it doesn't say much for the rest of the output. true there are some good shows, but not many.
Dull - disagree. Informed, intelligent, well presented.
I'm really disappointed with your recent postings.
Pod or internet specialist 10.00pm programmes? Do you think people always want to sit in their computer room/area listening to webcasts of their favoutite music? I.
Three points John
1. Laptops
2. Wifi streaming from your computer to any other part of the home
3. Podcasts can be listened to on any MP3 player, at home, in the car or in the middle of the open countryside. Or at work.
Two hours of intelligent, thought provoking, varied, swinging music that matters, presented by an acknowledged, expert , professional broadcaster.
From jazz to big bands, popular as opposed to 'pop' vocalists, light music, British dance bands, occasional comedy and steam trains
There's nothing wrong with wanting, for example, more shows that focus on big band music. There are plenty of people today who are fans of such genres-Jools Holland and Phil Collins come immediately to mind. However what troubles me about your post are the references such as 'popular as opposed ot 'pop' vocalists' (a phrase i haven't heard used for over 30 years) and 'steam trains'.
It makes me suspect that what you're really after is not a different musical focus on Radio Two. Its more about trying a recreate a Britain of the past-of steam trains, warm beer and the Light Programme. Speaking for myself, regardless of the music I do or don't like, I want to live in the modern world, not the past and for radio to reflect that world. That doesn't mean that I want the only music to be played to be from the here and now. There's music I like from many different decades but I do want to look to the future and not live in nostalgia and I speak as someone who's 47 not 17.
There's nothing wrong with wanting, for example, more shows that focus on big band music. There are plenty of people today who are fans of such genres-Jools Holland and Phil Collins come immediately to mind. However what troubles me about your post are the references such as 'popular as opposed ot 'pop' vocalists' (a phrase i haven't heard used for over 30 years) and 'steam trains'.
It makes me suspect that what you're really after is not a different musical focus on Radio Two. Its more about trying a recreate a Britain of the past-of steam trains, warm beer and the Light Programme. Speaking for myself, regardless of the music I do or don't like, I want to live in the modern world, not the past and for radio to reflect that world. That doesn't mean that I want the only music to be played to be from the here and now. There's music I like from many different decades but I do want to look to the future and not live in nostalgia and I speak as someone who's 47 not 17.
what troubles me about your post are the references such as 'popular as opposed ot 'pop' vocalists' (a phrase i haven't heard used for over 30 years)
TUC, I'm afraid it is you who are out of touch; the terms 'popular vocalist' and 'pop vocalist' are very much in modern use to distinguish the differing merits of performers.
If you try hard enough even you TUC can make a list of the two, I'll start you off,
There's nothing wrong with wanting, for example, more shows that focus on big band music. There are plenty of people today who are fans of such genres-Jools Holland and Phil Collins come immediately to mind. However what troubles me about your post are the references such as 'popular as opposed ot 'pop' vocalists' (a phrase i haven't heard used for over 30 years) and 'steam trains'.
I'm not suggesting stream trains on radio 2 and to be fair, Paul only plays steam trains very occasionally.
As for the terms poo and popular, it is a useful distinction. It is the same as distinguishing New Orleans Jazz from Be-bop. You know what you are getting.
It makes me suspect that what you're really after is not a different musical focus on Radio Two. Its more about trying a recreate a Britain of the past-of steam trains, warm beer and the Light Programme.
When I first posted this thread months ago, I did it to highlight what an excellent variety of music was on offer on Paul's show. That hasn't changed. A few critics have complained about his presentation style, but he is far removed from the Chris Evans style and thank heaven for that.
Speaking for myself, regardless of the music I do or don't like, I want to live in the modern world, not the past and for radio to reflect that world. That doesn't mean that I want the only music to be played to be from the here and now. There's music I like from many different decades but I do want to look to the future and not live in nostalgia and I speak as someone who's 47 not 17.
I'm 56 so I'm not yet in my dotage, despite what some others on here may believe. I think the style of presentaion offered by Barnsey and the late Malcolm Laycock and by Russell Davies is fine - but maybe you would like to suggest how to improve it?
2. Wifi streaming from your computer to any other part of the home
3. Podcasts can be listened to on any MP3 player, at home, in the car or in the middle of the open countryside. Or at work.
Mapperley, that is fine for us technophiles who can cope with it. What's wrong with just switching on a FM radio?
I use podcasts, but I couldn't get them on the move without paying megabucks.
I'm sure these things will come in time, but we are here, now and I can see what John means about sharing a brodcast as it happens.
In Paul's case, he takes e-mail messages from listeners who react with the show at times. You lose that on a podcast.
With this show it has clearly seen the benefit of being available on the net as he has regular listeners on the West Coast USA and in China, amonngst other places.
Sorry Howard, is that really the best you can manage?! TUC made some very valid points.
He suggested there is a place for a wider selection of music on the radio as a whole and all you can do is effectively stick your tongue out. Perhaps you should realise that just because someone has a different view of how things should be, that doesn't give you licence to mock them.
Mapperley, that is fine for us technophiles who can cope with it. What's wrong with just switching on a FM radio?
I use podcasts, but I couldn't get them on the move without paying megabucks.
Nothing wrong with it at all. However, my contention is that people of all ages are perfectly capable of dowloading a podcast (or an entire show) with just a basic knowledge of the technology.
I'm not sure what you mean about podcasts on the move costing "megabucks". If you mean the cost of an MP3 player, I reckon you could get something that would hold a good couple of hours of downloads for about £30 these days - perhaps a fraction more. Of cours,e if you also want to carry your music library around with you, you'll need more capacity. I have a rather ancient (by today's standards) Ipod which has a 20GB drive on it. It cost me
£50 on ebay two years ago and it works just fine.
Nothing wrong with it at all. However, my contention is that people of all ages are perfectly capable of dowloading a podcast (or an entire show) with just a basic knowledge of the technology.
Some people can cope with it. Others won't or can't.
I'm not sure what you mean about podcasts on the move costing "megabucks". If you mean the cost of an MP3 player, I reckon you could get something that would hold a good couple of hours of downloads for about £30 these days - perhaps a fraction more. Of cours,e if you also want to carry your music library around with you, you'll need more capacity. I have a rather ancient (by today's standards) Ipod which has a 20GB drive on it. It cost me
£50 on ebay two years ago and it works just fine.
I'm in danger of agreeing with you today!
The point I perhaps made clumsily was that it is expensive to dowload if you are on the road i.e.listening on the web. This will get cheaper of course as we progress.
My Ipod has largely replaced the CD player as it is so convenient.
I'm in danger of agreeing with you today!
The point I perhaps made clumsily was that it is expensive to dowload if you are on the road i.e.listening on the web. This will get cheaper of course as we progress.
My Ipod has largely replaced the CD player as it is so convenient.
Well there's a first for everything
You're right on that point. Although many hotels do offer wifi, too many still charge a small fortune for unlimited access. But I guess for weekly shows the best option - for those who do use the technology - is to download from IPlayer and it'll stay current for 28 days.
To the name of Paul Barnes I woul add Gary Copley who has been doing the big band business on Radio Leeds on Monday Nights 7 till 10 for many a year. Plus John Hellings on Radio Shropshire 7 till 9 Wednesdays. There's also the legend that is Frank Wappat on Radio Newcastle on Sundays 7 until 10.
You can also add Roger Day's 50s hour on Fridays(BBC South), Sandie Dunleavy (Radio York Mondays at 7), Colin Bunyan(Tees Sundays at 2) and Anne Hopper (Cumbria Sundays at 4).
On a more general note the track record of BBC Local Radio Presenters making a successful move to national radio isn't a good one. Two examples come to mind are Liz Green (Leeds) and Mark Page(ex what is now TFM).
Forgive me if I am being thick but isn't the real problem that there is nowhere on any BBC Station either local or national where you can during the daytime hear regularly from artists such as
Diana Krall, Peggy Lee, Jane Monheit, Carly Simon, Peter Paul and Mary, Karen Carpenter, Julie London, Ella Fitzgerald, June Christie, Sarah Vaughan, Linda Rondstadt, Fats Domino, Guy Mitchell, Sammy Davis, Edward Woodward, Matt Monro, Peter Grant, John Gary, Perry Como, Dickie Valentine and Mr. Sinatra.
I am sure people could add others of that genre . Now I am sure there are many who would look at that list and think that's not my scene. That's fine but I do think John P has a point when he says that the many many fans of the above have no outlet at all anywhere. Commercial Operators have an excuse such stuff does not bring in the advertisers. For the BBC however to run two FM Stations and two Digital ones(1 Extra and 6 Music) devoted to more hard edged daytime output and offer nothing to those who simply want a more melodic station to which they could listen is in my view wrong. Please also don't get me started on the anodyne Local Radio playlists.
For me I would alter 6 Music and offer an easy listening daytime schedule featuring many of the above. They could use the now defunct Primetime as a role model. It won't happen of course because the BBC would be scared of how many would desert Radio 2 to listen to it.
To the name of Paul Barnes I woul add Gary Copley who has been doing the big band business on Radio Leeds on Monday Nights 7 till 10 for many a year. Plus John Hellings on Radio Shropshire 7 till 9 Wednesdays. There's also the legend that is Frank Wappat on Radio Newcastle on Sundays 7 until 10.
You can also add Roger Day's 50s hour on Fridays(BBC South), Sandie Dunleavy (Radio York Mondays at 7), Colin Bunyan(Tees Sundays at 2) and Anne Hopper (Cumbria Sundays at 4).
On a more general note the track record of BBC Local Radio Presenters making a successful move to national radio isn't a good one. Two examples come to mind are Liz Green (Leeds) and Mark Page(ex what is now TFM).
Forgive me if I am being thick but isn't the real problem that there is nowhere on any BBC Station either local or national where you can during the daytime hear regularly from artists such as
Diana Krall, Peggy Lee, Jane Monheit, Carly Simon, Peter Paul and Mary, Karen Carpenter, Julie London, Ella Fitzgerald, June Christie, Sarah Vaughan, Linda Rondstadt, Fats Domino, Guy Mitchell, Sammy Davis, Edward Woodward, Matt Monro, Peter Grant, John Gary, Perry Como, Dickie Valentine and Mr. Sinatra.
I am sure people could add others of that genre . Now I am sure there are many who would look at that list and think that's not my scene. That's fine but I do think John P has a point when he says that the many many fans of the above have no outlet at all anywhere. Commercial Operators have an excuse such stuff does not bring in the advertisers. For the BBC however to run two FM Stations and two Digital ones(1 Extra and 6 Music) devoted to more hard edged daytime output and offer nothing to those who simply want a more melodic station to which they could listen is in my view wrong. Please also don't get me started on the anodyne Local Radio playlists.
For me I would alter 6 Music and offer an easy listening daytime schedule featuring many of the above. They could use the now defunct Primetime as a role model. It won't happen of course because the BBC would be scared of how many would desert Radio 2 to listen to it.
Phil, this derseves a proper answer, which I will do later as I'm in antenna errecting mode today. More later.
Commercial Operators have an excuse such stuff does not bring in the advertisers. For the BBC however to run two FM Stations and two Digital ones(1 Extra and 6 Music) devoted to more hard edged daytime output and offer nothing to those who simply want a more melodic station to which they could listen is in my view wrong. Please also don't get me started on the anodyne Local Radio playlists.
For me I would alter 6 Music and offer an easy listening daytime schedule featuring many of the above. They could use the now defunct Primetime as a role model. It won't happen of course because the BBC would be scared of how many would desert Radio 2 to listen to it.
My understanding is that Saga radio was bringing in the advertising revenue. GMG perhaps did it and its older listeners a dis-service by completely changing the format. The commercial radio sector has no excuse whatsoever - it should get its house in order instead of continually attacking the BBC.
I partly agree with your suggestion that one of the BBC's digital stations should and could cater for the light music audience. But I don't think the BBC is particularly "scared" of trying new things. If that had been the case Five Live would never have launched because the BBC would be "scared" that it would lose listeners from R4.
I think the most amicable compromise would be to combine light music with the kind of archive stuff you hear on BBC7.
Forgive me if I am being thick but isn't the real problem that there is nowhere on any BBC Station either local or national where you can during the daytime hear regularly from artists such as
Diana Krall, Peggy Lee, Jane Monheit, Carly Simon, Peter Paul and Mary, Karen Carpenter, Julie London, Ella Fitzgerald, June Christie, Sarah Vaughan, Linda Rondstadt, Fats Domino, Guy Mitchell, Sammy Davis, Edward Woodward, Matt Monro, Peter Grant, John Gary, Perry Como, Dickie Valentine and Mr. Sinatra.
There is something a bit odd about putting Diana Krall, Peggy Lee and Peter Paul and Mary in the same sentence as [a] Edward Woodward and each other. I've heard Peggy Lee played on US alternative/college stations and there was an article about Peter, Paul and Mary in either MOJO or Uncut recently; in other words, both are seen as "credible" artists by serious music fans. Diana Krall is obviously a different kettle of fish because she's still producing work of a high quality, but she's not hip the way Peggy Lee and Peter, Paul and Mary once were. I don't think Edward Woodward was ever seen as a hip, credible musician, was he?
Yes, there should be space for many of those artists on British radio but their appeal is different and to lump them together as light or easy-listening music is part of the problem not part of the solution. It would certainly be good to see changes to 6 Music to include older artists who are still influential and respected, but not so good if its mission to play the music that matters were abandoned in favour of a surfeit of middle-of-the-road oldies.
Trying to condense this thread to a few lines it appears that there is a suggestion that Radio 2 should have a wider brief on its playlist and an acceptance that Paul is OK for his time slot on local radio.
For what it is worth a friend of mine here in SE Asia drives around with Chris Evans and Wogan blaring from his car everyday.
My understanding is that Saga radio was bringing in the advertising revenue. GMG perhaps did it and its older listeners a dis-service by completely changing the format. The commercial radio sector has no excuse whatsoever - it should get its house in order instead of continually attacking the BBC.
Actually that's incorrect. SAGA gained a large audience but did not attract advertising revenue as advertisers did not wish to target older listeners.
Comments
Andy, my argument over Radio 2 is that it is indistinct in genres plyaed in the day from other stations. 3, 5 , 5Live & 7 are distinct. I have no beef of those stations.
I hope that clears the misunderstanding up.
I quite agree but you might as well pod or internet them for the few hundred listening.
I am being drawn in to a campaign to suggest a 70 years local presenter should be on radio 2.
Is that A) Because of his choice of tracks?
Yours etc
59 years old ex BBC guy who can also link records:o
(and looks aged)
old pilot,
I'm really disappointed with your recent postings.
Pod or internet specialist 10.00pm programmes? Do you think people always want to sit in their computer room/area listening to webcasts of their favoutite music? I don't think so. Certainly not good music recorded and meant to played in hi-fi stereo.
Part of the enjoyment of listening to radio is that you share your enjoyment with thousands of others at the sme time, it's just more satisfying that way.
John W
A real show with a creative varied and imaginative playlist[/QUOTE]
Ghosh that does not say much for the rest of the output..The music is fine but he sounds as dull as fen ditch water.
Dull - disagree. Informed, intelligent, well presented.
Three points John
1. Laptops
2. Wifi streaming from your computer to any other part of the home
3. Podcasts can be listened to on any MP3 player, at home, in the car or in the middle of the open countryside. Or at work.
It makes me suspect that what you're really after is not a different musical focus on Radio Two. Its more about trying a recreate a Britain of the past-of steam trains, warm beer and the Light Programme. Speaking for myself, regardless of the music I do or don't like, I want to live in the modern world, not the past and for radio to reflect that world. That doesn't mean that I want the only music to be played to be from the here and now. There's music I like from many different decades but I do want to look to the future and not live in nostalgia and I speak as someone who's 47 not 17.
What a collection of outdated cliches!
As is The Late Paul Barnes
TUC, I'm afraid it is you who are out of touch; the terms 'popular vocalist' and 'pop vocalist' are very much in modern use to distinguish the differing merits of performers.
If you try hard enough even you TUC can make a list of the two, I'll start you off,
Popular: Michael Buble, Diana Krall, Jack Jones
Pop: Cheryl Cole, Mariah Carey, Will Young, JLS
I'm not suggesting stream trains on radio 2 and to be fair, Paul only plays steam trains very occasionally.
As for the terms poo and popular, it is a useful distinction. It is the same as distinguishing New Orleans Jazz from Be-bop. You know what you are getting.
Mapperley, that is fine for us technophiles who can cope with it. What's wrong with just switching on a FM radio?
I use podcasts, but I couldn't get them on the move without paying megabucks.
I'm sure these things will come in time, but we are here, now and I can see what John means about sharing a brodcast as it happens.
In Paul's case, he takes e-mail messages from listeners who react with the show at times. You lose that on a podcast.
With this show it has clearly seen the benefit of being available on the net as he has regular listeners on the West Coast USA and in China, amonngst other places.
I'm saying nowt..
I did laugh though
Sorry Howard, is that really the best you can manage?! TUC made some very valid points.
He suggested there is a place for a wider selection of music on the radio as a whole and all you can do is effectively stick your tongue out. Perhaps you should realise that just because someone has a different view of how things should be, that doesn't give you licence to mock them.
Nothing wrong with it at all. However, my contention is that people of all ages are perfectly capable of dowloading a podcast (or an entire show) with just a basic knowledge of the technology.
I'm not sure what you mean about podcasts on the move costing "megabucks". If you mean the cost of an MP3 player, I reckon you could get something that would hold a good couple of hours of downloads for about £30 these days - perhaps a fraction more. Of cours,e if you also want to carry your music library around with you, you'll need more capacity. I have a rather ancient (by today's standards) Ipod which has a 20GB drive on it. It cost me
£50 on ebay two years ago and it works just fine.
Oh dear, didn't spot that typo:):)
I'm in danger of agreeing with you today!
The point I perhaps made clumsily was that it is expensive to dowload if you are on the road i.e.listening on the web. This will get cheaper of course as we progress.
My Ipod has largely replaced the CD player as it is so convenient.
Well there's a first for everything
You're right on that point. Although many hotels do offer wifi, too many still charge a small fortune for unlimited access. But I guess for weekly shows the best option - for those who do use the technology - is to download from IPlayer and it'll stay current for 28 days.
You can also add Roger Day's 50s hour on Fridays(BBC South), Sandie Dunleavy (Radio York Mondays at 7), Colin Bunyan(Tees Sundays at 2) and Anne Hopper (Cumbria Sundays at 4).
On a more general note the track record of BBC Local Radio Presenters making a successful move to national radio isn't a good one. Two examples come to mind are Liz Green (Leeds) and Mark Page(ex what is now TFM).
Forgive me if I am being thick but isn't the real problem that there is nowhere on any BBC Station either local or national where you can during the daytime hear regularly from artists such as
Diana Krall, Peggy Lee, Jane Monheit, Carly Simon, Peter Paul and Mary, Karen Carpenter, Julie London, Ella Fitzgerald, June Christie, Sarah Vaughan, Linda Rondstadt, Fats Domino, Guy Mitchell, Sammy Davis, Edward Woodward, Matt Monro, Peter Grant, John Gary, Perry Como, Dickie Valentine and Mr. Sinatra.
I am sure people could add others of that genre . Now I am sure there are many who would look at that list and think that's not my scene. That's fine but I do think John P has a point when he says that the many many fans of the above have no outlet at all anywhere. Commercial Operators have an excuse such stuff does not bring in the advertisers. For the BBC however to run two FM Stations and two Digital ones(1 Extra and 6 Music) devoted to more hard edged daytime output and offer nothing to those who simply want a more melodic station to which they could listen is in my view wrong. Please also don't get me started on the anodyne Local Radio playlists.
For me I would alter 6 Music and offer an easy listening daytime schedule featuring many of the above. They could use the now defunct Primetime as a role model. It won't happen of course because the BBC would be scared of how many would desert Radio 2 to listen to it.
Phil, this derseves a proper answer, which I will do later as I'm in antenna errecting mode today. More later.
My understanding is that Saga radio was bringing in the advertising revenue. GMG perhaps did it and its older listeners a dis-service by completely changing the format. The commercial radio sector has no excuse whatsoever - it should get its house in order instead of continually attacking the BBC.
I partly agree with your suggestion that one of the BBC's digital stations should and could cater for the light music audience. But I don't think the BBC is particularly "scared" of trying new things. If that had been the case Five Live would never have launched because the BBC would be "scared" that it would lose listeners from R4.
I think the most amicable compromise would be to combine light music with the kind of archive stuff you hear on BBC7.
Yes, there should be space for many of those artists on British radio but their appeal is different and to lump them together as light or easy-listening music is part of the problem not part of the solution. It would certainly be good to see changes to 6 Music to include older artists who are still influential and respected, but not so good if its mission to play the music that matters were abandoned in favour of a surfeit of middle-of-the-road oldies.
For what it is worth a friend of mine here in SE Asia drives around with Chris Evans and Wogan blaring from his car everyday.
Downloaded to MP3 every night while he is asleep.
Who wants to go back to am/fm?
I think the Trust is concerned about the over-50's resident in UK with only an FM radio in their hi-fi or on the mantelpiece.
John W
Actually that's incorrect. SAGA gained a large audience but did not attract advertising revenue as advertisers did not wish to target older listeners.