Gazza has nothing in his life. He leads an aimless life. The siren call of the bottle will be stronger in those circumstances. Pete D has his music, although he could always overdose and be a goner, he has an interest and a career and a purpose.
Gazza has nothing in his life. He leads an aimless life. The siren call of the bottle will be stronger in those circumstances. Pete D has his music, although he could always overdose and be a goner, he has an interest and a career and a purpose.
I know what you are thinking poppy but unfortunately addiction doesn't work like that
You can everything,have everyone round you and still be a hopeless addict,
Gazza has a lot of people around him he has a lot in his life if only he could see it,he's just signed for a Sunday league club,he's been asked to join and help youngsters play football,Tony Adams sporting life program triesto give Gazza support,he has a family who love him,-some addicts have nothing and no one in life but Gazza does ,
He walks about aimlessly because he's an alcoholic that's why and he cannot or will not help himself ,it's very sad when he has so much going for him,:(
Gary Lineker has just said on the evening news that it's a very sad situation but the only person who can help Gazza now is Gazza. He implied that his old mates from the footballing community have helped him out time and time again. I know that his rehab has been funded by former colleagues and associates on more than one occasion. Sounds like those who have stayed loyal to him are both disheartened and exasperated with him. Does seem like his alcoholism has been fuelled by other underlying mental health issues and he just can't beat them.
He had everything, a wife, kids, cars, celebrity, international acclaim, talent, multiple opportunities to redeem himself and get himself together... while he is a sad state at this point, there is nothing that can be done that hasn't been offered or tried. He has plenty of reasons to get himself together but if he can't see that and won't do right for himself and others, I can't blame others for no longer trying. If his kids begging him didn't work, I think perhaps he's just sociopathic and doesn't care for himself or others, even if they care for him. As for Gazza... Gazza was a talented football prodigy, this is just Paul Gascoigne, chronic alcoholic. I think most will always hold the legend in high esteem but his personal life has been tragic.
He had everything, a wife, kids, cars, celebrity, international acclaim, talent, multiple opportunities to redeem himself and get himself together... while he is a sad state at this point, there is nothing that can be done that hasn't been offered or tried. He has plenty of reasons to get himself together but if he can't see that and won't do right for himself and others, I can't blame others for no longer trying. If his kids begging him didn't work, I think perhaps he's just sociopathic and doesn't care for himself or others, even if they care for him. As for Gazza... Gazza was a talented football prodigy, this is just Paul Gascoigne, chronic alcoholic. I think most will always hold the legend in high esteem but his personal life has been tragic.
Robin Williams had all that too but wasn't able to get himself together either. Some people are just not as able to cope with life as others. PG is committing suicide slowly RW chose a faster route.
He had everything, a wife, kids, cars, celebrity, international acclaim, talent, multiple opportunities to redeem himself and get himself together... while he is a sad state at this point, there is nothing that can be done that hasn't been offered or tried. He has plenty of reasons to get himself together but if he can't see that and won't do right for himself and others, I can't blame others for no longer trying. If his kids begging him didn't work, I think perhaps he's just sociopathic and doesn't care for himself or others, even if they care for him. As for Gazza... Gazza was a talented football prodigy, this is just Paul Gascoigne, chronic alcoholic. I think most will always hold the legend in high esteem but his personal life has been tragic.
Or, he's a chronic alcoholic and, sadly, has never been able to gain control over his addiction?
Listing all the reasons why you think he should have been able to overcome it suggests you don't really understand what chronic addiction is.
that first picture of Gazza should be used as anti alcohol education in schools. He looks like a corpse:(
He really does. Reminiscent of how Alex Higgins looked in his last few months - the walking dead.
I've never been Gazza's greatest fan - or of any addict who is in the very fortunate position of being able to pay for the best rehab but still cannot get their act together - however, it would take the hardest of hearts not to feel some kind of emotion when seeing those photographs of him.
I can't help but feel death will come as a welcome relief both to him and his long suffering family. Whatever you think of Sheryl and Bianca, it was quite obvious in that documentary they did a while ago that there is real affection for him there - he just throws it back in their faces time and time again and was so unbelievably vile to them. Most of all, I feel sorry for his biological son, Reagan, who more or less disowned his father some time ago. No child should have to make that choice.
I really wish I hadn't looked at the first picture He genuinely does look as if he hasn't got much longer to live, so sad when you remember how he was, when he was playing football.
We're witnessing someone die right before our eyes. His friends and family are desperately trying to help - even after he's thrown that help back in their faces over the years. Problem here is that he now looks totally beyond help. Those pics of him were so upsetting to see when you think of him in the prime of his life scoring goals for England.
Or, he's a chronic alcoholic and, sadly, has never been able to gain control over his addiction?
Listing all the reasons why you think he should have been able to overcome it suggests you don't really understand what chronic addiction is.
He has plenty of reasons to stop and has had many chances, that he hasn't and apparently cannot weigh up the pros and cons, see the damage he has done and is doing to himself and others, suggests he cares more about the demon in the bottle than getting a handle on his health.
Also, if you're going to be patronising, please elaborate on the nature to which you have a greater understanding of addicion and alcoholism in comparison to myself based on your assumptions. Although it is none of your business, I deal with the consequences of my family's previous addictive tendencies on a daily basis, with their problems ranging from dementia to migraines to degenerative nerve disorders. I am quite aware of the nature of these problems but I also know if people want to get sober, they need support and proper motivation. If it is provided and not appreciated, then the onus lies on the addict not wanting to change and not caring for the support provided. So please, go ahead and explain to me your superior position of knowing on these matters? Or perhaps next time before you opine about other people you don't know, you shouldn't think you have grounds to do so simply because their views contradict your own, giving you the assumed right to judge them as inferior intellects on such matters without bothering to substantiate your own argument before making sniping judgements with no basis.
Perhaps you'd care to discuss the subject, not make assumptions about people you don't know, I think that'd be best rather than acting like Sherlock Holmes on an internet forum. Even if you are yourself a social worker or addiction counselor, then you'd know that people only get clean and sober if they want to and have good reason to do so, particularly if they lack value in themselves but are valued by others who can help to impart that ego and support required unto them. It's the basis for the Sponsor Support system, the chip monthly and yearly tokens of abstinence, going to AA and NA meetings rather than down the pub, reaching for the phone and calling your sponsor rather than reaching for a bottle... but you have to want to get better and reach out to the right people at times of weakness, not just keep buying booze and pushing out the people than want you to heal and stay in their lives. Addiction is not uncontrollable or something that cannot be conquered, but if Paul Gascoigne would rather spend money on cheap gin than time with his kids or getting clean, that's a choice he is making.
He has plenty of reasons to stop and has had many chances, that he hasn't and apparently cannot weigh up the pros and cons, see the damage he has done and is doing to himself and others, suggests he cares more about the demon in the bottle than getting a handle on his health.
Also, if you're going to be patronising, please elaborate on the nature to which you have a greater understanding of addicion and alcoholism in comparison to myself based on your assumptions.
<--- snip ---->
but if Paul Gascoigne would rather spend money on cheap gin than time with his kids or getting clean, that's a choice he is making.
I really wasn't meaning to be patronising so apologies for that. But you listed things that you felt should influence him and I was just pointing out that for a chronic alcoholic, those are just not things that matter or have any impact.
And I just don't understand how anyone who professes to know about chronic addiction can use the term 'choice'.
He has plenty of reasons to stop and has had many chances, that he hasn't and apparently cannot weigh up the pros and cons, see the damage he has done and is doing to himself and others, suggests he cares more about the demon in the bottle than getting a handle on his health.
Also, if you're going to be patronising, please elaborate on the nature to which you have a greater understanding of addicion and alcoholism in comparison to myself based on your assumptions. Although it is none of your business, I deal with the consequences of my family's previous addictive tendencies on a daily basis, with their problems ranging from dementia to migraines to degenerative nerve disorders. I am quite aware of the nature of these problems but I also know if people want to get sober, they need support and proper motivation. If it is provided and not appreciated, then the onus lies on the addict not wanting to change and not caring for the support provided. So please, go ahead and explain to me your superior position of knowing on these matters? Or perhaps next time before you opine about other people you don't know, you shouldn't think you have grounds to do so simply because their views contradict your own, giving you the assumed right to judge them as inferior intellects on such matters without bothering to substantiate your own argument before making sniping judgements with no basis.
Perhaps you'd care to discuss the subject, not make assumptions about people you don't know, I think that'd be best rather than acting like Sherlock Holmes on an internet forum. Even if you are yourself a social worker or addiction counselor, then you'd know that people only get clean and sober if they want to and have good reason to do so, particularly if they lack value in themselves but are valued by others who can help to impart that ego and support required unto them. It's the basis for the Sponsor Support system, the chip monthly and yearly tokens of abstinence, going to AA and NA meetings rather than down the pub, reaching for the phone and calling your sponsor rather than reaching for a bottle... but you have to want to get better and reach out to the right people at times of weakness, not just keep buying booze and pushing out the people than want you to heal and stay in their lives. Addiction is not uncontrollable or something that cannot be conquered, but if Paul Gascoigne would rather spend money on cheap gin than time with his kids or getting clean, that's a choice he is making.
Sorry.but your last two sentences show that even you cannot understand the complexities of addiction and what it entitles
,I'm a recovering alcoholic and Gazza is in the mist of addiction and his choice at the moment has been taken away he needs help more than you could ever know,of course Gazza wouldn't want to spend money on cheap gin but that's the only thing that will stop the shaking and DTs thankfully now he's in hospital again they can help him detox,I just think what with Gazzas bi polar and other mental issues that he needs so much more help that a short stint in rehab ,some people can never ever stay sober it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and every day I'm a step away from a drink a day at a time and it does get easier but then some days I have to go back to AA and I'm right back at day 1 when I feel like I'm at the beginning again,Gazza has never got that far but it took me years to get it too,
Also having ago at Bela whose posts I find on the subject very precise was harsh ,you didn't need to pull her view apart when in fact she was very honest as to why Gazza is drinking like he is,
Sorry.but your last two sentences show that even you cannot understand the complexities of addiction and what it entitles
,I'm a recovering alcoholic and Gazza is in the mist of addiction and his choice at the moment has been taken away he needs help more than you could ever know,of course Gazza wouldn't want to spend money on cheap gin but that's the only thing that will stop the shaking and DTs thankfully now he's in hospital again they can help him detox,I just think what with Gazzas bi polar and other mental issues that he needs so much more help that a short stint in rehab ,some people can never ever stay sober it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and every day I'm a step away from a drink a day at a time and it does get easier but then some days I have to go back to AA and I'm right back at day 1 when I feel like I'm at the beginning again,Gazza has never got that far but it took me years to get it too
Also having ago at Bela whose posts I find on the subject very precise was harsh ,you didn't need to pull her view apart when in fact she was very honest as to why Gazza is drinking like he is,
Great post Ella & thanks for sharing, it's always interesting to read a comment from someone who knows first hand
I suspect if he was an average Joe he would have gone by now. The last minute interventions and expensive rehabs have kept him alive but he is unable to remain sober for any length of time. I can't believe Paul is anything other than desperately unhappy. He isn't living. As someone else said letting him slip away would probably be a release.
Robin Williams had all that too but wasn't able to get himself together either. Some people are just not as able to cope with life as others. PG is committing suicide slowly RW chose a faster route.
Robin Williams like me was a long time in sobriety but suffered from dreadful mental illness so sometimes it's impossible to get yourself together from that,the brain isn't wired right just like Gazza and his mental illness which you will find a lot of addicts suffer from as well,so no amount of telling someone they have a wife,children etc will help when they are in the mist of depression it depends how depressed that person is IMO ,
I honestly believe some people with such depressive minds cannot live a normal life -look at poor Robin Williams
Great post Ella & thanks for sharing, it's always interesting to read a comment from someone who knows first hand
That's ok BEL it does annoy me when people confess to know about addiction and they are not going through it day after day for the rest of their lives,it's a shame that even now people see addiction as weak and pathetic when it's nothing to do with that ,I think I've read so many studies and tests I've driven myself mad!
What I cannot understand is why alcoholism is called a "disease" and apparently an incurable one at that. I have attended support groups for families of alcoholics and the term disease is used frequently. Does this only apply to alcoholics or do other addictions get classed as a disease as well?
Are nicotine addicts smoking 20 cigarettes a day who find it so hard to stop also suffering a disease? (Nicotine is more addictive than all of the hard drugs and alcohol) Are heroin users? People who are addicted to gambling? I could go on. None of these addictions seem to gain much sympathy in comparison to that shown to Gazza and his drinking problem.
To say he doesn't have a choice is ludicrous, of course he does.
Sorry.but your last two sentences show that even you cannot understand the complexities of addiction and what it entitles
,I'm a recovering alcoholic and Gazza is in the mist of addiction and his choice at the moment has been taken away he needs help more than you could ever know,of course Gazza wouldn't want to spend money on cheap gin but that's the only thing that will stop the shaking and DTs thankfully now he's in hospital again they can help him detox,I just think what with Gazzas bi polar and other mental issues that he needs so much more help that a short stint in rehab ,some people can never ever stay sober it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and every day I'm a step away from a drink a day at a time and it does get easier but then some days I have to go back to AA and I'm right back at day 1 when I feel like I'm at the beginning again,Gazza has never got that far but it took me years to get it too,
Also having ago at Bela whose posts I find on the subject very precise was harsh ,you didn't need to pull her view apart when in fact she was very honest as to why Gazza is drinking like he is,
I am glad you are in recovery. My mother will be for the rest of her life and my uncle drank himself into dementia rather than get help despite our insistence and support.
But please, continue to opine in ignorance as if I know nothing. It entertains me the delusions others will construct to support their arguments from points of ignorance. Here's the thing: neither of you know me. But presume to do so and judge me.
This is where I stop caring about the entitled opinions of others assuming more than they truly know.
My mother has been sober for 21 years. My uncle barely remembers me from week to week when I visit. The difference is the enduring will to correct and invest in themselves rather than submit to their addiction.
While I will support your investment in your own recovery, I could care less for your opinion because you are not me but have assumed more than you have any information prior to this point to do so. So, perhaps you might want to tuck your opinion in your back pocket and not presume too much off of too little to give credence to your personal opinion without personal knowledge of the person you are addressing. Addiction is a problem but continually dismissing the efforts of others to help, support and provide you means to get clean and sober is just as egotistical as assuming you know more about the trials of strangers who you don't have personal associations with to argue against them in ignorance. So, it is no wonder to me you support the same mindset when you purport it.
Please reconsider opining from a point of personal opinion towards strangers when you are ignorant of their experience. Perception is personal, experience is subjective. I'm not presuming or assuming more about you than has been presented so please do not the same towards me. It is immature and trivial in practice. Your trials are your trials but to assume they are the same as others or even Paul Gascoigne's outside of the basic accepted tenets of reformed practices to work against addictive behaviours... that's naive and self serving. If at this point Gascoigne cannot accept his actions affect others, his behaviour is selfish and self destructive, his way of living is not productive or sustainable... he is either selfish, sociopathic or mentally deficit to the degree interventionist social care should be implemented.
Comments
I know what you are thinking poppy but unfortunately addiction doesn't work like that
You can everything,have everyone round you and still be a hopeless addict,
Gazza has a lot of people around him he has a lot in his life if only he could see it,he's just signed for a Sunday league club,he's been asked to join and help youngsters play football,Tony Adams sporting life program triesto give Gazza support,he has a family who love him,-some addicts have nothing and no one in life but Gazza does ,
He walks about aimlessly because he's an alcoholic that's why and he cannot or will not help himself ,it's very sad when he has so much going for him,:(
Robin Williams had all that too but wasn't able to get himself together either. Some people are just not as able to cope with life as others. PG is committing suicide slowly RW chose a faster route.
Or, he's a chronic alcoholic and, sadly, has never been able to gain control over his addiction?
Listing all the reasons why you think he should have been able to overcome it suggests you don't really understand what chronic addiction is.
He really does. Reminiscent of how Alex Higgins looked in his last few months - the walking dead.
I've never been Gazza's greatest fan - or of any addict who is in the very fortunate position of being able to pay for the best rehab but still cannot get their act together - however, it would take the hardest of hearts not to feel some kind of emotion when seeing those photographs of him.
I can't help but feel death will come as a welcome relief both to him and his long suffering family. Whatever you think of Sheryl and Bianca, it was quite obvious in that documentary they did a while ago that there is real affection for him there - he just throws it back in their faces time and time again and was so unbelievably vile to them. Most of all, I feel sorry for his biological son, Reagan, who more or less disowned his father some time ago. No child should have to make that choice.
He has given up drink before, so he can do it if he wants but he seems in a very dark place.
I just wish the press would leave him alone.
You would have to be pretty hard hearted not to.
I think it was the 'kebab shop' incident prior to the one World Cup.
He seemed to go downhill from there!
He has plenty of reasons to stop and has had many chances, that he hasn't and apparently cannot weigh up the pros and cons, see the damage he has done and is doing to himself and others, suggests he cares more about the demon in the bottle than getting a handle on his health.
Also, if you're going to be patronising, please elaborate on the nature to which you have a greater understanding of addicion and alcoholism in comparison to myself based on your assumptions. Although it is none of your business, I deal with the consequences of my family's previous addictive tendencies on a daily basis, with their problems ranging from dementia to migraines to degenerative nerve disorders. I am quite aware of the nature of these problems but I also know if people want to get sober, they need support and proper motivation. If it is provided and not appreciated, then the onus lies on the addict not wanting to change and not caring for the support provided. So please, go ahead and explain to me your superior position of knowing on these matters? Or perhaps next time before you opine about other people you don't know, you shouldn't think you have grounds to do so simply because their views contradict your own, giving you the assumed right to judge them as inferior intellects on such matters without bothering to substantiate your own argument before making sniping judgements with no basis.
Perhaps you'd care to discuss the subject, not make assumptions about people you don't know, I think that'd be best rather than acting like Sherlock Holmes on an internet forum. Even if you are yourself a social worker or addiction counselor, then you'd know that people only get clean and sober if they want to and have good reason to do so, particularly if they lack value in themselves but are valued by others who can help to impart that ego and support required unto them. It's the basis for the Sponsor Support system, the chip monthly and yearly tokens of abstinence, going to AA and NA meetings rather than down the pub, reaching for the phone and calling your sponsor rather than reaching for a bottle... but you have to want to get better and reach out to the right people at times of weakness, not just keep buying booze and pushing out the people than want you to heal and stay in their lives. Addiction is not uncontrollable or something that cannot be conquered, but if Paul Gascoigne would rather spend money on cheap gin than time with his kids or getting clean, that's a choice he is making.
Sadly it will only end in one way,its just a matter of time,sadly
I really wasn't meaning to be patronising so apologies for that. But you listed things that you felt should influence him and I was just pointing out that for a chronic alcoholic, those are just not things that matter or have any impact.
And I just don't understand how anyone who professes to know about chronic addiction can use the term 'choice'.
Sorry.but your last two sentences show that even you cannot understand the complexities of addiction and what it entitles
,I'm a recovering alcoholic and Gazza is in the mist of addiction and his choice at the moment has been taken away he needs help more than you could ever know,of course Gazza wouldn't want to spend money on cheap gin but that's the only thing that will stop the shaking and DTs thankfully now he's in hospital again they can help him detox,I just think what with Gazzas bi polar and other mental issues that he needs so much more help that a short stint in rehab ,some people can never ever stay sober it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and every day I'm a step away from a drink a day at a time and it does get easier but then some days I have to go back to AA and I'm right back at day 1 when I feel like I'm at the beginning again,Gazza has never got that far but it took me years to get it too,
Also having ago at Bela whose posts I find on the subject very precise was harsh ,you didn't need to pull her view apart when in fact she was very honest as to why Gazza is drinking like he is,
Great post Ella & thanks for sharing, it's always interesting to read a comment from someone who knows first hand
Robin Williams like me was a long time in sobriety but suffered from dreadful mental illness so sometimes it's impossible to get yourself together from that,the brain isn't wired right just like Gazza and his mental illness which you will find a lot of addicts suffer from as well,so no amount of telling someone they have a wife,children etc will help when they are in the mist of depression it depends how depressed that person is IMO ,
I honestly believe some people with such depressive minds cannot live a normal life -look at poor Robin Williams
That's ok BEL it does annoy me when people confess to know about addiction and they are not going through it day after day for the rest of their lives,it's a shame that even now people see addiction as weak and pathetic when it's nothing to do with that ,I think I've read so many studies and tests I've driven myself mad!
Are nicotine addicts smoking 20 cigarettes a day who find it so hard to stop also suffering a disease? (Nicotine is more addictive than all of the hard drugs and alcohol) Are heroin users? People who are addicted to gambling? I could go on. None of these addictions seem to gain much sympathy in comparison to that shown to Gazza and his drinking problem.
To say he doesn't have a choice is ludicrous, of course he does.
I am glad you are in recovery. My mother will be for the rest of her life and my uncle drank himself into dementia rather than get help despite our insistence and support.
But please, continue to opine in ignorance as if I know nothing. It entertains me the delusions others will construct to support their arguments from points of ignorance. Here's the thing: neither of you know me. But presume to do so and judge me.
This is where I stop caring about the entitled opinions of others assuming more than they truly know.
My mother has been sober for 21 years. My uncle barely remembers me from week to week when I visit. The difference is the enduring will to correct and invest in themselves rather than submit to their addiction.
While I will support your investment in your own recovery, I could care less for your opinion because you are not me but have assumed more than you have any information prior to this point to do so. So, perhaps you might want to tuck your opinion in your back pocket and not presume too much off of too little to give credence to your personal opinion without personal knowledge of the person you are addressing. Addiction is a problem but continually dismissing the efforts of others to help, support and provide you means to get clean and sober is just as egotistical as assuming you know more about the trials of strangers who you don't have personal associations with to argue against them in ignorance. So, it is no wonder to me you support the same mindset when you purport it.
Please reconsider opining from a point of personal opinion towards strangers when you are ignorant of their experience. Perception is personal, experience is subjective. I'm not presuming or assuming more about you than has been presented so please do not the same towards me. It is immature and trivial in practice. Your trials are your trials but to assume they are the same as others or even Paul Gascoigne's outside of the basic accepted tenets of reformed practices to work against addictive behaviours... that's naive and self serving. If at this point Gascoigne cannot accept his actions affect others, his behaviour is selfish and self destructive, his way of living is not productive or sustainable... he is either selfish, sociopathic or mentally deficit to the degree interventionist social care should be implemented.