True. The only canon instance of a Jedi being mind wiped was when Anakin had some his memories removed by The Father on Mortis after his vision of becoming Vader in The Clone Wars. That was ok (in my mind anyway) because as powerful as Anakin was, he was also weak minded - always scared of losing loved ones, lack of self discipline, impatient, quick to anger, etc. It didn't contradict the canon explanation that the weak minded can be manipulated by the force (plus there was the added out of the ordinary factor of Mortis being "a conduit through which the entire Force of the universe flows"). Interestingly though, Revan was almost used in the Mortis episodes.
If they chose to go down the Rey was mind wiped route then fair enough, but having built her up as being such a mentally strong character I'd hope it's not done in away that would contradict that.
Just to throw a spanner in the works: Lucasfilm's Creative Executive has now confirmed the scene with the Knights of Ren in Rey's vision, doesn't take place at Luke's Jedi Academy, it takes place somewhere else.
I think the biggest clue is her accent. There aren't many characters in Star Wars who speak like that, so it must say something about who she is.
I'm sure that Obi-Wan can be heard, at the end of her vision, calling her name (it certainly sounds like someone doing an Alec Guinness impression, to me). So her being Obi-Wan's granddaughter makes sense to me.
But what if she isn't related to one of the good guys? What if she's a Tarkin, or even a Palpatine? That would be an interesting twist; the great-granddaughter of the Emperor becoming a Jedi.
My betting is that she is a solo; in the same way that Luke/Leia were m/f twins she and Ben Solo are too and they were separated to protect them; look at the big hug and general affection Leia gave her when they met at the end of The Force Awakens bearing in mind that never met at any point prior to that in the film.
I think they were born and she was immediately taken away and then given to max von sydow's character on Jakku (the hand seen on Rey's shoulder when she was having her flashback)
Han knew about it; I noticed how Kylo Ren mentioned he was like the father she never had and he also said that chewie 'kinda liked her'
I think the biggest clue is her accent. There aren't many characters in Star Wars who speak like that, so it must say something about who she is.
I'm sure that Obi-Wan can be heard, at the end of her vision, calling her name (it certainly sounds like someone doing an Alec Guinness impression, to me). So her being Obi-Wan's granddaughter makes sense to me.
But what if she isn't related to one of the good guys? What if she's a Tarkin, or even a Palpatine? That would be an interesting twist; the great-granddaughter of the Emperor becoming a Jedi.
Rey's lightsabre technique in the final battle with Keylo Ren had some similarities with the technique of Darth Sidious (aka Palpatine).
In Episode 3, during the initial stages of the battle when Mace Windu arrives to arrest the Chancellor, Palpatine performs a stabbing technique (with a double handed grip of the lightsabre) to take out Mace Windu's Jedi colleagues. He also uses this technique when fighting Master Yoda near the end of the film. Near the end of the battle with Keylo Ren, we can see Rey use a very similar technique. Not sure if this is coincidence, but perhaps she is related to the former emperor? Perhaps, the Skywalker bloodline is related to Palpatine in some way?
Rey's lightsabre technique in the final battle with Keylo Ren had some similarities with the technique of Darth Sidious (aka Palpatine).
In Episode 3, during the initial stages of the battle when Mace Windu arrives to arrest the Chancellor, Palpatine performs a stabbing technique (with a double handed grip of the lightsabre) to take out Mace Windu's Jedi colleagues. He also uses this technique when fighting Master Yoda near the end of the film. Near the end of the battle with Keylo Ren, we can see Rey use a very similar technique. Not sure if this is coincidence, but perhaps she is related to the former emperor? Perhaps, the Skywalker bloodline is related to Palpatine in some way?
I think Rey's stabbing technique is purely coincidental to that of Palpatine. She used a staff on Jaaku so the stabbing is similar to that I would suspect as opposed to an inherited fighting style or one coached when she was a Padawan at Luke's Jedi academy before Kylo went bad.
Your point reference Palpatine's bloodline is something I have thought about previously regarding Anakin....
The Prequels completely ripped up the magic and mystique around the force and turned it into the scientific Midochlorians in the blood. Shmi cannot remember who 'fathered' Anakin and Palpatine around the same time as Anakins birth began the cloning infrastructure that led to Jango Fett/clone army arc.
Perhaps Lucas intended Palpatine to be the father of Anakin (with the whole scientific approach) by impregnanting Shmi with his genetic structure and bloodline, changing that structure to make Anakin more emotionally unstable and susceptible to the dark side mixed with his ability in the force. He's from Naboo, which is literally on the doorstep of Tatooine and with Tatooine being a backwater it enables him to create Anakin 'under the radar of the Jedi' and dump the lad into slavery to become a natural fighter no unbalanced because he has to fight to survive.
The Phantom Menace leads to Padme and Anakin meeting. Padme is from Naboo, a natural diplomat and possibly force sensitive, and one known by and remained close to Palpatine since her birth. Palpatine starts the blockade and 'fate' leads to the two meeting and they then together create Luke and Leia.
Luke is then dumped in a backwater fighting to survive whilst Leia is given to a political family to become a diplomat. It mirrors Anakin and Padme, which may be sloppy story writing and repetition by Lucas, or intentional as Palpatine orchestrated the whole of the prequel storyline with the objective of his bloodline strengthening their survival instincts, fighting ability, determination and strength in the force. Luke mirrors a lot of Anakins strengths and weaknesses.
Kylo Ren/Ben and Rey are the next generation with Ben seduced by Snoke. Luke then dumps his daughter on Jaaku after Ben turns to the dark side and then follows the same upbringing as he did and also his father.
People have queried The Force Awakens storyline as mirroring A New Hope. It could well be lazy story writing but I can't see this with Abrams.
I have a feeling that it's intentional; Snoke is actually Darth Plageous and he started the bloodline and conditioning - he created Palpatine who was turned to the darkside and Palpatine struck Plageous down (cue Ben Kenobi referencing the force in A New Hope - strike me down and I will become more powerful). Snoke then started the Sith dynasty of powerful Sith who have left their physical bodies...which is why you don't see his physical presence in TFA.
Palpatine then created Anakin (or was instructed by Plageous to do so) who ultimately struck him down in Return of The Jedi (Plageous foreseen this) and Anakin created Luke and Leia. Palpatine's plan was for Luke to kill Anakin and in a roundabout way this happened. Luke wasn't seduced so was Anakin actually redeemed or is he/Palpatine/Snoke now all influencing Ben via a spiritual plain to complete what they were unable to do with Luke. Ben has struck down Han but Han isn't the bloodline so Ben must strike down Leia or Luke or Rey needs to be seduced to do the same and maintain the bloodline/Sith dynasty.
May all be coincidental or lazy story writing but who knows??
I don't think that Snoke is a ghost, I think he is located in a far away base/hideout, hence he asks General Hux to bring Keylo to him for further training.
The fact that Snoke appears as a hologram mirrors Episode II - Empire Strikes Back, where the Emperor speaks to Darth Vader only through Skype, we only get to see his real self much later in Episode III on the second Death Star.
They did have an apprently strong connection the first time they met in the movie. That could simply be the reaction of two Force sensitive people meeting for the first time under emotional circumstances with Rey sensing Leia's grief and Leia acknowledging that; or the connection could run deeper but not yet be recognised.
Well we know he fancies women, even the ones he shouldn't.
Well to be fair he didn't know Leia was his sister till Yoda dropped a big hint and then Luke cottoned on.
Well to be fair he didn't know Leia was his sister till Yoda dropped a big hint and then Luke cottoned on.
According to Leia she "always knew", of course we have to put that into context. She didn't know he was her brother but there was a strong connection and a sense of familiarity. Luke probably felt the same, but being a young naive farm boy, he probably mistook that connection for attraction when they first met. They were both dealing with feelings they had never experienced before. Now it's three decades later and both of them will have become more aware and sensitive to the force.
Given how JJ and co have quite clearly tried to avoid all that made the Prequels so terrible, I doubt that they would re-use that awful idea from TPM.
BIB1 - never seen that before!!! :D:D
BIB2 - So her being related to the Skywalker's is the route they are most likely treading. I imagine there will be certain ppl on this forum who will self combust if true and not in a yay kind of way either - more a where are the original thoughts/rip off/we've seen this before kind of way.
I just like the idea of the Skywalker gene pool not being the only one they can fill.
Plus tbh if Rey does turn out to be a Skywalker or a Solo maybe they should have given a heads up to Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley cos IMHO they had sexual chemistry - which if their characters are related makes things a little bit awkward!! But then again Adam Driver had the same kind of chemistry with Oscar Issac?! Weird:o!!!! Noting they did work together before on Inside Llewyn Davis! Maybe he just has good chemistry with ppl - he has in everything I've seen him in!
I thinks she's a Solo, she said she was waiting for a women to return (I think it was a women) and retrieve her from Jaku. It's also a massive coincidence that the Falcon was left on Jaku and that Han just happened to be hanging around, when she makes her escape. Now either Leia and Han were mind wiped but somehow they have feelings which draw them to Jaku, or they weren't mind wiped but didn't believe she was their daughter at the beginning. And we have the whole Han and Kylo thing similar to EP4.
To be honest when I saw episode 7 I was surprised to see Rey become the main character, for some reason I expected it to be Finn.
Iv heard a lot of talk online about a double turn. Kylo turning good and Rey turning to the dark side. I don't see this happening. I wouldn't rule out Kylo turning good in episode IX. But Rey stays good, she has too. Luke and Obi Wan have remained good and pure throughout, with Anakin it was always on the cards and foreseen by the Jedi council from the start.
My belief is that she is a relative of Obi Wan and will go on to lead the new Jedi vs the new Sith lead by Kylo Ren into episode 10, where a new trilogy story will emerge.
Btw don't get any of the Kylo Ren criticism, he is already the best villain in the whole series, so much character, and so much more to be seen.
I don't get this theory that she is a Kenobi. Ben wasn't shagging around on Tatooine, he was an old hermit. He came from a time when the Jedi were effectively supposed to be celibate. It just doesn't make sense, would take some explaining and even then, I don't really see what purpose it would serve.
BIB2 - So her being related to the Skywalker's is the route they are most likely treading. I imagine there will be certain ppl on this forum who will self combust if true and not in a yay kind of way either - more a where are the original thoughts/rip off/we've seen this before kind of way.
I just like the idea of the Skywalker gene pool not being the only one they can fill.
Plus tbh if Rey does turn out to be a Skywalker or a Solo maybe they should have given a heads up to Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley cos IMHO they had sexual chemistry - which if their characters are related makes things a little bit awkward!! But then again Adam Driver had the same kind of chemistry with Oscar Issac?! Weird:o!!!! Noting they did work together before on Inside Llewyn Davis! Maybe he just has good chemistry with ppl - he has in everything I've seen him in!
BIB - :D:D
Sexual chemistry?! Kylo was effectively raping when he had her bound up and pulling thoughts from her mind. There was no sexual chemistry on her behalf, she was just standing up for herself. She has chemistry with Finn though.
I was sure Rey was a Solo, especially with how Han acted around her. But then Leia didn't appear to know her at all, so that theory kind of went by the wayside. Wouldn't surprise me if that's what she turns out to be though.
I don't get this theory that she is a Kenobi. Ben wasn't shagging around on Tatooine, he was an old hermit. He came from a time when the Jedi were effectively supposed to be celibate. It just doesn't make sense, would take some explaining and even then, I don't really see what purpose it would serve.
I don't think many think he was "shagging around", but he was on Tatooine for 20 years or so. There's plenty story to fill in that time gap. The Jedi of that time weren't celibate, they just weren't allowed to form attachments, but the Order was no more anyway, so who knows.
I read last night that Kylo Ren/Ben actually defended Rey from the Knights of Ren when they attacked the Jedi Academy because she was a relative of his. Ren was ordered to slaughter the padawans/Skywalker by Snoke but his mental conflict between the light and dark meant he couldn't kill her so killed the Knights instead.
Luke then escapes with her and she is dumped on Jaaku away from Snoke.
My take is the following....
Episode VIII plays out with Luke training Rey similar to Yoda training Luke in Empire. However rather than the student being questioned in Empire (Luke being too old, too impatient, too impressionable and susceptible to the dark side and his father/Vader) it is the teacher who is questioned in Episode VIII (Luke still too impatient, too much Vader in him, susceptible to the dark side) and this is why Ben turned whilst being trained...and risk that Rey has Vader in her too?
This means she is definitely a Solo or a Skywalker and all will be revealed in episode VIII....Rey's parentage will be questioned thoughout with twists and turns until Luke delivers that immortal line "no....I AM your father".
Luke's doubt means he's still susceptible to the dark and especially when confronted by Snoke, who is unveiled to be of the Plageious/Palpatine/Skywalker lineage, and this echoes the Anakin/Vader conflict. Who redeems him? Rey....now identified as his daughter and she defeats the dark once more in Episode IX redeeming the later generations of the line (Luke and Ben) bringing balance once again to the force.
I don't think many think he was "shagging around", but he was on Tatooine for 20 years or so. There's plenty story to fill in that time gap. The Jedi of that time weren't celibate, they just weren't allowed to form attachments, but the Order was no more anyway, so who knows.
So in this scenario there's a missing generation in there? I would be fine with her being a Kenobi if she's not a Skywalker. As long as she's not a Solo which really makes zero sense (not to mention her encounters with Leia and Han in TFA weren't exactly dramatic or emotionally foreshadowing in the least).
Comments
do you remember what season that was in ?
I'm sure that Obi-Wan can be heard, at the end of her vision, calling her name (it certainly sounds like someone doing an Alec Guinness impression, to me). So her being Obi-Wan's granddaughter makes sense to me.
But what if she isn't related to one of the good guys? What if she's a Tarkin, or even a Palpatine? That would be an interesting twist; the great-granddaughter of the Emperor becoming a Jedi.
I think they were born and she was immediately taken away and then given to max von sydow's character on Jakku (the hand seen on Rey's shoulder when she was having her flashback)
Han knew about it; I noticed how Kylo Ren mentioned he was like the father she never had and he also said that chewie 'kinda liked her'
Rey's lightsabre technique in the final battle with Keylo Ren had some similarities with the technique of Darth Sidious (aka Palpatine).
In Episode 3, during the initial stages of the battle when Mace Windu arrives to arrest the Chancellor, Palpatine performs a stabbing technique (with a double handed grip of the lightsabre) to take out Mace Windu's Jedi colleagues. He also uses this technique when fighting Master Yoda near the end of the film. Near the end of the battle with Keylo Ren, we can see Rey use a very similar technique. Not sure if this is coincidence, but perhaps she is related to the former emperor? Perhaps, the Skywalker bloodline is related to Palpatine in some way?
I think Rey's stabbing technique is purely coincidental to that of Palpatine. She used a staff on Jaaku so the stabbing is similar to that I would suspect as opposed to an inherited fighting style or one coached when she was a Padawan at Luke's Jedi academy before Kylo went bad.
Your point reference Palpatine's bloodline is something I have thought about previously regarding Anakin....
The Prequels completely ripped up the magic and mystique around the force and turned it into the scientific Midochlorians in the blood. Shmi cannot remember who 'fathered' Anakin and Palpatine around the same time as Anakins birth began the cloning infrastructure that led to Jango Fett/clone army arc.
Perhaps Lucas intended Palpatine to be the father of Anakin (with the whole scientific approach) by impregnanting Shmi with his genetic structure and bloodline, changing that structure to make Anakin more emotionally unstable and susceptible to the dark side mixed with his ability in the force. He's from Naboo, which is literally on the doorstep of Tatooine and with Tatooine being a backwater it enables him to create Anakin 'under the radar of the Jedi' and dump the lad into slavery to become a natural fighter no unbalanced because he has to fight to survive.
The Phantom Menace leads to Padme and Anakin meeting. Padme is from Naboo, a natural diplomat and possibly force sensitive, and one known by and remained close to Palpatine since her birth. Palpatine starts the blockade and 'fate' leads to the two meeting and they then together create Luke and Leia.
Luke is then dumped in a backwater fighting to survive whilst Leia is given to a political family to become a diplomat. It mirrors Anakin and Padme, which may be sloppy story writing and repetition by Lucas, or intentional as Palpatine orchestrated the whole of the prequel storyline with the objective of his bloodline strengthening their survival instincts, fighting ability, determination and strength in the force. Luke mirrors a lot of Anakins strengths and weaknesses.
Kylo Ren/Ben and Rey are the next generation with Ben seduced by Snoke. Luke then dumps his daughter on Jaaku after Ben turns to the dark side and then follows the same upbringing as he did and also his father.
People have queried The Force Awakens storyline as mirroring A New Hope. It could well be lazy story writing but I can't see this with Abrams.
I have a feeling that it's intentional; Snoke is actually Darth Plageous and he started the bloodline and conditioning - he created Palpatine who was turned to the darkside and Palpatine struck Plageous down (cue Ben Kenobi referencing the force in A New Hope - strike me down and I will become more powerful). Snoke then started the Sith dynasty of powerful Sith who have left their physical bodies...which is why you don't see his physical presence in TFA.
Palpatine then created Anakin (or was instructed by Plageous to do so) who ultimately struck him down in Return of The Jedi (Plageous foreseen this) and Anakin created Luke and Leia. Palpatine's plan was for Luke to kill Anakin and in a roundabout way this happened. Luke wasn't seduced so was Anakin actually redeemed or is he/Palpatine/Snoke now all influencing Ben via a spiritual plain to complete what they were unable to do with Luke. Ben has struck down Han but Han isn't the bloodline so Ben must strike down Leia or Luke or Rey needs to be seduced to do the same and maintain the bloodline/Sith dynasty.
May all be coincidental or lazy story writing but who knows??
The fact that Snoke appears as a hologram mirrors Episode II - Empire Strikes Back, where the Emperor speaks to Darth Vader only through Skype, we only get to see his real self much later in Episode III on the second Death Star.
Well to be fair he didn't know Leia was his sister till Yoda dropped a big hint and then Luke cottoned on.
It's certainly narrowing the expansive Star Wars universe if Rey is a Skywalker and battling her cousin or sibling in the next films.
If she is going to be from any particular bloodline I'd like for her to be a Kenobi rather than a Skywalker/Solo.
The Incestual Realisation of Han Solo
Given how JJ and co have quite clearly tried to avoid all that made the Prequels so terrible, I doubt that they would re-use that awful idea from TPM.
That's actually a very good idea and I'd love that.
Failing that, perhaps Yoda procreated he did
BIB1 - never seen that before!!!
BIB2 - So her being related to the Skywalker's is the route they are most likely treading. I imagine there will be certain ppl on this forum who will self combust if true and not in a yay kind of way either - more a where are the original thoughts/rip off/we've seen this before kind of way.
I just like the idea of the Skywalker gene pool not being the only one they can fill.
Plus tbh if Rey does turn out to be a Skywalker or a Solo maybe they should have given a heads up to Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley cos IMHO they had sexual chemistry - which if their characters are related makes things a little bit awkward!! But then again Adam Driver had the same kind of chemistry with Oscar Issac?! Weird:o!!!! Noting they did work together before on Inside Llewyn Davis! Maybe he just has good chemistry with ppl - he has in everything I've seen him in!
BIB -
Well, Yaddle did seem to disappear after The Phantom Menace...
Iv heard a lot of talk online about a double turn. Kylo turning good and Rey turning to the dark side. I don't see this happening. I wouldn't rule out Kylo turning good in episode IX. But Rey stays good, she has too. Luke and Obi Wan have remained good and pure throughout, with Anakin it was always on the cards and foreseen by the Jedi council from the start.
My belief is that she is a relative of Obi Wan and will go on to lead the new Jedi vs the new Sith lead by Kylo Ren into episode 10, where a new trilogy story will emerge.
Btw don't get any of the Kylo Ren criticism, he is already the best villain in the whole series, so much character, and so much more to be seen.
Sexual chemistry?! Kylo was effectively raping when he had her bound up and pulling thoughts from her mind. There was no sexual chemistry on her behalf, she was just standing up for herself. She has chemistry with Finn though.
I was sure Rey was a Solo, especially with how Han acted around her. But then Leia didn't appear to know her at all, so that theory kind of went by the wayside. Wouldn't surprise me if that's what she turns out to be though.
Luke then escapes with her and she is dumped on Jaaku away from Snoke.
My take is the following....
Episode VIII plays out with Luke training Rey similar to Yoda training Luke in Empire. However rather than the student being questioned in Empire (Luke being too old, too impatient, too impressionable and susceptible to the dark side and his father/Vader) it is the teacher who is questioned in Episode VIII (Luke still too impatient, too much Vader in him, susceptible to the dark side) and this is why Ben turned whilst being trained...and risk that Rey has Vader in her too?
This means she is definitely a Solo or a Skywalker and all will be revealed in episode VIII....Rey's parentage will be questioned thoughout with twists and turns until Luke delivers that immortal line "no....I AM your father".
Luke's doubt means he's still susceptible to the dark and especially when confronted by Snoke, who is unveiled to be of the Plageious/Palpatine/Skywalker lineage, and this echoes the Anakin/Vader conflict. Who redeems him? Rey....now identified as his daughter and she defeats the dark once more in Episode IX redeeming the later generations of the line (Luke and Ben) bringing balance once again to the force.
So in this scenario there's a missing generation in there? I would be fine with her being a Kenobi if she's not a Skywalker. As long as she's not a Solo which really makes zero sense (not to mention her encounters with Leia and Han in TFA weren't exactly dramatic or emotionally foreshadowing in the least).