I am assuming that we almost all have our dogs vaccinated twice as puppies, and if like some research has shown it protects them for almost all of their life, then we are all protecting one another.
The dogs of ours who died due to cancer were innoculated and boosted, including two that were rescues and one I had from a puppy. As we have normally had three dogs at a time, some rescued or ex breeding bitches of an older age, I suppose the chances of getting something like cancer are higher through having several together rather than people who have just a single dog.
My two pups were both innoculated as young puppies and all of my previous dogs have been innoculated and boosted annually, but for my current youngsters I have now decided not to go for the boosters as per my 'invitation' card sent out by my vet and I know of several others who don't have their dogs boosted unless a kennel requests it. Personally I don't put mine in kennels if I go away because a dog-sitting friend or my mother-in-law stays in my house to care for them, which I think is much nicer, or we may occasionally take them if permitted, not that we go on holidays very often but there are quite a few dog-friendly hotels in this country now.
Funny that this thread should be dug up! I took the dog to the vets for a consultation last week and decided to have his vaccinations restarted.
They're a pretty good vet actually. It's a charity so it's not for profit, and my mum recently had to have one of her Border Collies put down because he had Lymphoma. They were very good about it and she was very happy with them. Anyway, I got the following:
Dog 1:
Consultation
Weighing
Worm Check
3 months worth of worming tablets (we have to worm every month because of baby on the way!)
Vaccination restart (including free boster in 2-4 weeks)
Dog 2:
Consultation
Weighing
Worm Check
3 months worth of worming tablets
The price, for the whole lot? £42.
If you're from the Birmingham area: Pet Vaccination Clinic - they have 4 branches around Birmingham and have always been absolutely brilliant.
You're very fortunate regarding cost Somner.... my vets charge £30 + VAT just for a consultation (sometimes for about 5 mins of their time) so that's £34.50 without anything else doing. There is another local vet but they're even more expensive for small animal owners. :eek: and if I went for the boosters they are £60.... but at the moment I am still reading up a lot of information about boosters etc.
Your vet is like my sister's vet and has reasonable costs for treatment! Her vet took out several of her oldest dog's teeth and scaled and polished them all for £53 (with an apology for having to use an expensive anaesthetic) whereas my vet charges that just for the anaesthetic and my old dog, sadly no longer with us, cost £160 for the same number of teeth to be removed! :eek: but then her vet drives an old Land Rover and mine has a very nice car and a Range Rover!
I can remember some time ago, reading an article where two of the vets from the Vets in Practice TV programme (one was Trude and the other was a male vet) saying that they believe that annual boosters are unecessary and can create more problems than they solve... or words to that effect!
There will always be some people who have them done every year and others who don't... I used to get all my dogs done annually, but my last two dogs (pedigree) had so many very costly problems, allergies, operations, drugs for lumps, ear infections etc that I am seriously thinking not to have the booster done. My dogs don't go near kennels or areas that are busy with dog-walkers either and I do know of others who have only had the initial puppy injections and none since, because of believing that there would be long-lasting immunity for the conditions the vaccinations were given!
Funny that this thread should be dug up! I took the dog to the vets for a consultation last week and decided to have his vaccinations restarted.
They're a pretty good vet actually. It's a charity so it's not for profit, and my mum recently had to have one of her Border Collies put down because he had Lymphoma. They were very good about it and she was very happy with them. Anyway, I got the following:
Dog 1:
Consultation
Weighing
Worm Check
3 months worth of worming tablets (we have to worm every month because of baby on the way!)
Vaccination restart (including free boster in 2-4 weeks)
Dog 2:
Consultation
Weighing
Worm Check
3 months worth of worming tablets
The price, for the whole lot? £42.
If you're from the Birmingham area: Pet Vaccination Clinic - they have 4 branches around Birmingham and have always been absolutely brilliant.
Another thumbs up for the Pet Vaccination Clinic. I think my branch is a little more expensive, but not much.
When I took Murphy for a nail trim it cost me £3.50 (they only did one nail so charged half price)
The only downside is they don't do out of hours so I have to pay 'normal' fees for OOH - a pre-midnight consultation is £80:eek:
SylviaB, what ever you decide, please be guided by the all evidence, not just the evidence and you-tube annecdotes that fit your preconceptions.
As I mentioned previously, the puppy vacs and first booster seems to be important. After that, there is good evidence that each booster lasts 3 years for distemper and parvo, but not lepto.
Lepto may not be a problem for you as it is not caught from other dogs but from (IIRC) rat urine - so only really a major problem if your dogs spend time in ponds, lakes, streams etc.
Kennel Cough is rarely a fatal illness, but is expensive to treat once caught. I don't vaccinate for Kennel cough as my dogs don't spend time confined with other dogs.
If you are really worried, go for a titre test. Pretty pricey, but it will tell you what level of protection that your pups have.
You really don't want them to catch Parvo. It is a horrible, painful illness and usually fatal - certainly very expensive to treat. And it is becoming more prevelant as people are swayed by the anti-vax brigade and their poor science.
I have never heard of any Parvo anywhere near me Stress Monkey and I've not seen any rats apart from those in pet shops!;)
Parvo is thankfully rare because of 'herd immunity' - that is where the vast majority vaccinate their dogs. The problem is, the more people who rely on herd immunity rather than vaccination to protect their dogs, the weaker herd immunity gets. If vaccination levels drop too far, then we get outbreaks, then even epidemics. Look at measles for an example.
Parvo can be carried on shoes, in soil etc at well as by dogs. It is a very hardy virus ans can survive outside a host for some time (years). So although you don't live in a Parvo area now, it only takes one infected dog or someone visiting from a parvo area to spread the infection and put your dogs at risk.
:eek: i would never risk my dog with missing her boosters, she is coming up for 10 years old, and has been vacc every year. the price is irrelevent, its a cost we need to pay for owning a dog. if a childs vacc cost us each time, would we not bother just because we are lining the pockets of the doctors etc??? i think not!
surely removing the risk of one of these awful diseases and having the peace of mind is better than hoping that the lack of vacc will pay off in the end. im sure should your dog become ill with parvo and you see them pooping blood and mucus and the life draining from them as they watch you from their vet cage you would wish you had the vacc done i just couldnt forgive myself if i decided not to vacc and err on the side of caution and my girl got sick.
my friend also doesnt believe in vacc, i personally cant understand it, she has her kids done, but doesnt bother with her dogs as it 'costs too much'. people like this, who wont pay for the treatments, shouldnt be allowed to own pets.
:eek: i would never risk my dog with missing her boosters, she is coming up for 10 years old, and has been vacc every year. the price is irrelevent, its a cost we need to pay for owning a dog. if a childs vacc cost us each time, would we not bother just because we are lining the pockets of the doctors etc??? i think not!
The cost isn't the factor with me... even though my vet is expensive.... it's just that I have read/heard so much about there not being any scientific support for annual boosters........!
The cost isn't the factor with me... even though my vet is expensive.... it's just that I have read/heard so much about there not being any scientific support for annual boosters........!
However there is a significant body of good scientific evidence to support a protocol of initial vaccination, first booster at a year and boosters at three yearly intervals after that.
There is also good scientific evidence to support the use of initial vacs and first booster.
The evidence for annual boosters is less strong than for a three year protocol, but the same evidence that supports three years would also tend to support annual over none.
We decided on our vets advice for not getting the annual boosters.The vet is my wifes auntie with her own practice.Obviously she lost money by telling people this but stands firm by her decision.She still gave them to people who insisted on them and for those who had insurance companies where they're compulsory.In her judgment it's a money making scheme that preys on peoples fears.Why would she willingly lose business and profit ?
We decided on our vets advice for not getting the annual boosters.The vet is my wifes auntie with her own practice.Obviously she lost money by telling people this but stands firm by her decision.She still gave them to people who insisted on them and for those who had insurance companies where they're compulsory.In her judgment it's a money making scheme that preys on peoples fears.Why would she willingly lose business and profit ?
As in many disciplines, different experts have different ideas. This can be apparent in court cases where expert witnesses can have directly opposing views on the same evidence, or currently there are very differing views from economists who are equally expert to each other as to the best way to deal with the current recession.
A few vets are qualified homoeopaths but the vast majority of vets are very much in disagreement with their views, including using homoeopathic vaccines or nosades. Likewise a few vets support use of the BARF diet but rather more are against it due to the risk factors of salmonella, e-coli, foreign body injuries and reactions, the diet not always roperly balanced for different life stages, the potential inconsistency etc, however I know several people on here are very supportive of it.
As in many disciplines, different experts have different ideas. This can be apparent in court cases where expert witnesses can have directly opposing views on the same evidence, or currently there are very differing views from economists who are equally expert to each other as to the best way to deal with the current recession.
A few vets are qualified homoeopaths but the vast majority of vets are very much in disagreement with their views, including using homoeopathic vaccines or nosades. Likewise a few vets support use of the BARF dietbut rather more are against it due to the risk factors of salmonella, e-coli, foreign body injuries and reactions, the diet not always roperly balanced for different life stages, the potential inconsistency etc, however I know several people on here are very supportive of it.
A lot of vets sell tinned and various sized bags of dog food these days....so they would probably rather sell you some of that than to recommend you feed raw food to your dogs that they don't sell!
A lot of vets sell tinned and various sized bags of dog food these days....so they would probably rather sell you some of that than to recommend you feed raw food to your dogs that they don't sell!
I would be more inclined to accept that it they were selling the diets but feeding their own dogs BARF but that isn't the case, however they do treat dogs with digestive upsets from people trying them on BARF diets, though some dogs get on well with it ,as they are all individuals.
And some of the vets who support BARF are selling commercial BARF and organic foods so if the other vets were convinced as to its reputed advantages they could still keep up their revenue by going this route.
I've just read this thread & I was very interested in the information everyone has provided, particularly on the reasons for & against annual boosters.
Both my dogs are currently vaccinated annually as this is a requirement of my insurance cover. However I shall definitely be asking about the 3 year protocol at my next visit & whether the veterinary profession would be able to defend insurance claims for dogs that have not had annual boosters. Perhaps I'm lucky in that none of my pets have ever had a reaction to their jabs.
I don't ever kennel my dogs or cats ~ the cats stay at home with neighbours/mother/friends visiting to feed & supply company. The dogs come with me:). But even so, I am well aware that my dogs are walked in a huge variety of places, they drink from puddles, streams, plunge into any water they can find, so I would be very worried if they were not protected from diseases. Plus we can meet any number of other dogs when we're out & about & I have no idea whether any of the areas I visit have had outbreaks of parvo, distemper etc.
Vets have differing ideas on many aspects of animal health, including vaccinations, diet & nutrition, neutering, behavioural advice & welfare etc. I like to hear their views, & I like to have the opportunity to talk through any concerns that I have. For me , the most important criteria when choosing my vet were their willingness to listen, to treat me like a reasonably well-informed pet owner & not to fob me off with trite explanations on the grounds that I'm not capable of understanding pet health issues. If my vet recommends annual boosters I would ask why, I would ask if they can supply the studies or research that lead them to that conclusion & on what basis they don't think 3 year vaccinations are sufficient. I've had very interesting discussions with vets on diet & BARF feeding & from my own research I've decided that the health benefits outweigh the risks. But this is not a conclusion I've reached lightly & when I do any research I am well aware that the quality varies considerably. There's a world of difference between anecdotal evidence from a "friend of a friend" & peer-reviewed scientific studies. BUT the ultimate decision rests with me as the owner, so whatever decisions I make, I have to live with the consequences be they good or bad.
Having taken my long-haired dog to be clipped a couple of days ago, I was talking to the groomer, who has also got really nice kennels, and she has done a lot of research into whether or not all these 'booster' injections are of any value to our pets and has come to the conclusion after reading heaps of stuff and contacting a lot of people, that all these injections are a contributing factor to the huge amount of Cancers in our domestic pets nowadays.
My youngest dog was taken seriously ill with an auto-immune disorder (AIHA) nearly 2 years ago. It was an illness I'd never heard of and obviously during his treatment I tried to educate myself as much as possible about his illness.
One of the subjects that I came across frequently was the big debate about whether some of these illnesses are actually CAUSED by over vaccination.
A lot of professional groomers and dog breeders are now shying away from annual boosters, believing that the first puppy course is enough.
If you have your child vaccinated against measles for instance, do you have to repeat the vaccination every year?
It's also worth remembering that vets often get generous kickbacks from the drug companies to push vaccinations.
Because so many cases of AIHA have been linked to vaccinations I have made the decision NOT to have my youngest dog vaccinated again. He was lucky to survive, and on balance the risk of him having the vaccinations is probably higher than the risk of him not having them.
The jury is still out on my other 2 dogs.
On the whole I value and respect the advice given by my vet, but my experience with my dogs illness has made me realise that it's always worth questioning, researching, and making your own judgements rather than just blindly going along with everything.
Re the 'annual booster' topic..... whilst walking my dogs today, I met and was speaking to a retired vet and of course we got on to dog vaccinating and annual boosters, and how often should it be done and so on.... He said that practising vets won't tell us that our dogs are being vaccinated far too often than is good for them. He said that some dog owners insist that their dogs are done annually, even though they could be told that they could have it done every three years rather than annually because conditions like parvo and distemper have at least a three year protection, and probably a lifetime protection!
He said that dogs' antibodies do not decline as time goes on and that antibodies from a previous vaccine will prevent subsequent vaccines from having any effect. Seemingly if a dog already has antibodies at the time of vaccination, it isn't possible to stimulate a further immune response from being vaccinated, but it could cause an adverse reaction. He reckons that healthy animals don't need annual boosters and unhealthy ones shouldn't have them, so that in effect, no animal should get them!
The retired vet said that it's more important to have a regular check-up/physical examination for our dogs than a jab because a treatable condition could be detected at an early stage.
Comments
Good post !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkxl9QfIhyY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKjY0oyKe3A&feature=response_watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu-PRIjF02w&feature=related
They're a pretty good vet actually. It's a charity so it's not for profit, and my mum recently had to have one of her Border Collies put down because he had Lymphoma. They were very good about it and she was very happy with them. Anyway, I got the following:
Dog 1:
Consultation
Weighing
Worm Check
3 months worth of worming tablets (we have to worm every month because of baby on the way!)
Vaccination restart (including free boster in 2-4 weeks)
Dog 2:
Consultation
Weighing
Worm Check
3 months worth of worming tablets
The price, for the whole lot? £42.
If you're from the Birmingham area: Pet Vaccination Clinic - they have 4 branches around Birmingham and have always been absolutely brilliant.
Your vet is like my sister's vet and has reasonable costs for treatment! Her vet took out several of her oldest dog's teeth and scaled and polished them all for £53 (with an apology for having to use an expensive anaesthetic) whereas my vet charges that just for the anaesthetic and my old dog, sadly no longer with us, cost £160 for the same number of teeth to be removed! :eek: but then her vet drives an old Land Rover and mine has a very nice car and a Range Rover!
I can remember some time ago, reading an article where two of the vets from the Vets in Practice TV programme (one was Trude and the other was a male vet) saying that they believe that annual boosters are unecessary and can create more problems than they solve... or words to that effect!
There will always be some people who have them done every year and others who don't... I used to get all my dogs done annually, but my last two dogs (pedigree) had so many very costly problems, allergies, operations, drugs for lumps, ear infections etc that I am seriously thinking not to have the booster done. My dogs don't go near kennels or areas that are busy with dog-walkers either and I do know of others who have only had the initial puppy injections and none since, because of believing that there would be long-lasting immunity for the conditions the vaccinations were given!
Another thumbs up for the Pet Vaccination Clinic. I think my branch is a little more expensive, but not much.
When I took Murphy for a nail trim it cost me £3.50 (they only did one nail so charged half price)
The only downside is they don't do out of hours so I have to pay 'normal' fees for OOH - a pre-midnight consultation is £80:eek:
As I mentioned previously, the puppy vacs and first booster seems to be important. After that, there is good evidence that each booster lasts 3 years for distemper and parvo, but not lepto.
Lepto may not be a problem for you as it is not caught from other dogs but from (IIRC) rat urine - so only really a major problem if your dogs spend time in ponds, lakes, streams etc.
Kennel Cough is rarely a fatal illness, but is expensive to treat once caught. I don't vaccinate for Kennel cough as my dogs don't spend time confined with other dogs.
If you are really worried, go for a titre test. Pretty pricey, but it will tell you what level of protection that your pups have.
You really don't want them to catch Parvo. It is a horrible, painful illness and usually fatal - certainly very expensive to treat. And it is becoming more prevelant as people are swayed by the anti-vax brigade and their poor science.
Parvo is thankfully rare because of 'herd immunity' - that is where the vast majority vaccinate their dogs. The problem is, the more people who rely on herd immunity rather than vaccination to protect their dogs, the weaker herd immunity gets. If vaccination levels drop too far, then we get outbreaks, then even epidemics. Look at measles for an example.
Parvo can be carried on shoes, in soil etc at well as by dogs. It is a very hardy virus ans can survive outside a host for some time (years). So although you don't live in a Parvo area now, it only takes one infected dog or someone visiting from a parvo area to spread the infection and put your dogs at risk.
surely removing the risk of one of these awful diseases and having the peace of mind is better than hoping that the lack of vacc will pay off in the end. im sure should your dog become ill with parvo and you see them pooping blood and mucus and the life draining from them as they watch you from their vet cage you would wish you had the vacc done
my friend also doesnt believe in vacc, i personally cant understand it, she has her kids done, but doesnt bother with her dogs as it 'costs too much'. people like this, who wont pay for the treatments, shouldnt be allowed to own pets.
just my opinion.
However there is a significant body of good scientific evidence to support a protocol of initial vaccination, first booster at a year and boosters at three yearly intervals after that.
There is also good scientific evidence to support the use of initial vacs and first booster.
The evidence for annual boosters is less strong than for a three year protocol, but the same evidence that supports three years would also tend to support annual over none.
As in many disciplines, different experts have different ideas. This can be apparent in court cases where expert witnesses can have directly opposing views on the same evidence, or currently there are very differing views from economists who are equally expert to each other as to the best way to deal with the current recession.
A few vets are qualified homoeopaths but the vast majority of vets are very much in disagreement with their views, including using homoeopathic vaccines or nosades. Likewise a few vets support use of the BARF diet but rather more are against it due to the risk factors of salmonella, e-coli, foreign body injuries and reactions, the diet not always roperly balanced for different life stages, the potential inconsistency etc, however I know several people on here are very supportive of it.
I would be more inclined to accept that it they were selling the diets but feeding their own dogs BARF but that isn't the case, however they do treat dogs with digestive upsets from people trying them on BARF diets, though some dogs get on well with it ,as they are all individuals.
And some of the vets who support BARF are selling commercial BARF and organic foods so if the other vets were convinced as to its reputed advantages they could still keep up their revenue by going this route.
Both my dogs are currently vaccinated annually as this is a requirement of my insurance cover. However I shall definitely be asking about the 3 year protocol at my next visit & whether the veterinary profession would be able to defend insurance claims for dogs that have not had annual boosters. Perhaps I'm lucky in that none of my pets have ever had a reaction to their jabs.
I don't ever kennel my dogs or cats ~ the cats stay at home with neighbours/mother/friends visiting to feed & supply company. The dogs come with me:). But even so, I am well aware that my dogs are walked in a huge variety of places, they drink from puddles, streams, plunge into any water they can find, so I would be very worried if they were not protected from diseases. Plus we can meet any number of other dogs when we're out & about & I have no idea whether any of the areas I visit have had outbreaks of parvo, distemper etc.
Vets have differing ideas on many aspects of animal health, including vaccinations, diet & nutrition, neutering, behavioural advice & welfare etc. I like to hear their views, & I like to have the opportunity to talk through any concerns that I have. For me , the most important criteria when choosing my vet were their willingness to listen, to treat me like a reasonably well-informed pet owner & not to fob me off with trite explanations on the grounds that I'm not capable of understanding pet health issues. If my vet recommends annual boosters I would ask why, I would ask if they can supply the studies or research that lead them to that conclusion & on what basis they don't think 3 year vaccinations are sufficient. I've had very interesting discussions with vets on diet & BARF feeding & from my own research I've decided that the health benefits outweigh the risks. But this is not a conclusion I've reached lightly & when I do any research I am well aware that the quality varies considerably. There's a world of difference between anecdotal evidence from a "friend of a friend" & peer-reviewed scientific studies. BUT the ultimate decision rests with me as the owner, so whatever decisions I make, I have to live with the consequences be they good or bad.
He said that dogs' antibodies do not decline as time goes on and that antibodies from a previous vaccine will prevent subsequent vaccines from having any effect. Seemingly if a dog already has antibodies at the time of vaccination, it isn't possible to stimulate a further immune response from being vaccinated, but it could cause an adverse reaction. He reckons that healthy animals don't need annual boosters and unhealthy ones shouldn't have them, so that in effect, no animal should get them!
The retired vet said that it's more important to have a regular check-up/physical examination for our dogs than a jab because a treatable condition could be detected at an early stage.
He recommends that I read a book entitled, 'What Vets Don't Tell You about Vaccines' which I have seen on Amazon and I'm going to buy it as this subject comes up quite often with my animal owning friends! http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Vets-Dont-about-Vaccines/dp/1929242492/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246219094&sr=1-1
I am just reading this from the author: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/1929242492/ref=sib_fs_top?ie=UTF8&p=S00J&checkSum=30l1z94VBHmrBoMXcAxaNeul%2FIBW3zyAXmpa73b%2BNcM%3D#reader-link