People who are driven to suicide because of actions out of their control deserve sympathy.
But people who kill themselves because of their own actions, don't.
It wasn't just because of her own actions though. She was stalked by a paedophile:
From online source:
Amanda's ordeal began at the age of 12 when she was fooling around with friends and lifted her her top for someone on the other end of a webcam.
The person was not a boy of her age though, but a suspected paedophile from across the border in America, who went on to terrorise her right up until her death.
“The Internet stalker she flashed kept stalking her,” said Ms Todd. “Every time she moved schools he would go undercover and become a Facebook friend.
"He went online to the kids who went to (the new school) and said that he was going to be a new student - that he was starting school the following week and that he wanted some friends and could they friend him on Facebook.
“He eventually gathered people’s names and sent Amanda’s video to her new school.”
The video and photos went to teachers and parents as well as pupils.
The bullies began to taunt her with names such as "porn star" and Amanda became anxious, withdrawn and desperate to avoid going to lessons.
Police were never able to track her stalker down, but they did trace the messages to the United States.
Despite their investigations though, the man continued to stalk Amanda, and even threatened to circulate the pictures again unless she gave him another "show".
She refused so he carried out his threat, and her pain was amplified by her classmates who it's claimed shared the photos on their cellphones.
She was verbally abused and beaten up, and incredibly Amanda is still being targeted by vile online abuse even after her death.
what an utterly vile post and just the attitude such a bully would have.
I really disliked that post and found it quite offensive to women generally. I hope others would have more compassion and consider what it would be like had it been their daughter that had died.
Why are you telling me its moderated?
Have you reported VG's post?
Have you reported mine?
In what way do they qualify for reporting?
Where is the personal insult I have launched?
If you look at what I said I made a post that showed posting history that was odds with the FMs views on another FM being a dismissive and harsh regarding another persons woes (not a FM so the comparison is entirely apt).
You appear to have complained about people doing something while repeating the 'flaw' yourself.
Weren't you told that when you point the finger there are 3 fingers pointing back at you?
Even if I were offended by any of the posts I wouldn't be reporting them. I've often posted that I value freedom of speech and the thing is that saying one thing and then acting in a completely different manner would make me a ............hypocrite.
Maybe that it's not a simple story about a girl being bullied to death? That there's a lot more to the story than which is being told here?
Yes I'm aware of that and separated the two; someone blackmailing her who I said it was a shame he got away with it and was not caught and then the separate issue where she was being bullied by other kids about it.
Myself and pleanty of others have poured scorn over both occurrences.
I didn't realise she was 12 at the time though, I assumed she was about 15; so put her actions down to teens doing something ill advised (it doesn't sound like she was groomed as such).
Her cards said they so I assumed she was coerced by a group who may have been teens if it was a teen site; maybe with some predators in there too; well at least one, who then went on to do what's happened here.
But 12 just makes the whole thing sickening.
As for the poster who holds the truth; I don't believe it; it goes too far. Maybe she slept with another boys boyfriend; that kind of thing happens, maybe she slept with a few guys; that happens.
But your post claims she was slept around with other people's boyfriends, was a prostitute and was a peado's play thing; for gifts.
That to me sounds like the kind of crap bullies could turn a smaller, real scenario into in order to launch an attack.
I quite happily admit there may have been, even probably was, more to it than her cards in the YouTube video as like I said; stuff has a tendency to blow over; unless something is fuelling it.
It would not surprise me if that something may have been her stalker though.
Yes I'm aware of that and separated the two; someone blackmailing her who I said it was a shame he got away with it and was not caught and then the separate issue where she was being bullied by other kids about it.
Myself and pleanty of others have poured scorn over both occurrences.
I didn't realise she was 12 at the time though, I assumed she was about 15; so put her actions down to teens doing something ill advised (it doesn't sound like she was groomed as such).
Her cards said they so I assumed she was coerced by a group who may have been teens if it was a teen site; maybe with some predators in there too; well at least one, who then went on to do what's happened here.
But 12 just makes the whole thing sickening.
As for the poster who holds the truth; I don't believe it; it goes too far. Maybe she slept with another boys boyfriend; that kind of thing happens, maybe she slept with a few guys; that happens.
But your post claims she was slept around with other people's boyfriends, was a prostitute and was a peado's play thing; for gifts.
That to me sounds like the kind of crap bullies could turn a smaller, real scenario into in order to launch an attack.
I quite happily admit there may have been, even probably was, more to it than her cards in the YouTube video as like I said; stuff has a tendency to blow over; unless something is fuelling it.
It would not surprise me if that something may have been her stalker though.
I never said any such thing so kindly read back and amend your accusation.
It wasn't just because of her own actions though. She was stalked by a paedophile:
From online source:
Amanda's ordeal began at the age of 12 when she was fooling around with friends and lifted her her top for someone on the other end of a webcam.
The person was not a boy of her age though, but a suspected paedophile from across the border in America, who went on to terrorise her right up until her death.
“The Internet stalker she flashed kept stalking her,” said Ms Todd. “Every time she moved schools he would go undercover and become a Facebook friend.
"He went online to the kids who went to (the new school) and said that he was going to be a new student - that he was starting school the following week and that he wanted some friends and could they friend him on Facebook.
“He eventually gathered people’s names and sent Amanda’s video to her new school.”
The video and photos went to teachers and parents as well as pupils.
The bullies began to taunt her with names such as "porn star" and Amanda became anxious, withdrawn and desperate to avoid going to lessons.
Police were never able to track her stalker down, but they did trace the messages to the United States.
Despite their investigations though, the man continued to stalk Amanda, and even threatened to circulate the pictures again unless she gave him another "show".
She refused so he carried out his threat, and her pain was amplified by her classmates who it's claimed shared the photos on their cellphones.
She was verbally abused and beaten up, and incredibly Amanda is still being targeted by vile online abuse even after her death.
This all kicked off because she showed her tits to him. So yeah, it was because of her actions.
Is she hadn't flashed her tits, he couldn't have shared the pictures.
And to be fair. She then added this fake account of Facebook even though she had never ever met him, because it was a fake alias.
She was very careless with her actions on social media. You should not add people you do not know.
And the fact that people are calling her an 'angel' is really annoying me. Angels don't go on the internet and flash their tits to a total stranger.
Yes I'm aware of that and separated the two; someone blackmailing her who I said it was a shame he got away with it and was not caught and then the separate issue where she was being bullied by other kids about it.
Myself and pleanty of others have poured scorn over both occurrences.
I didn't realise she was 12 at the time though, I assumed she was about 15; so put her actions down to teens doing something ill advised (it doesn't sound like she was groomed as such).
Her cards said they so I assumed she was coerced by a group who may have been teens if it was a teen site; maybe with some predators in there too; well at least one, who then went on to do what's happened here.
But 12 just makes the whole thing sickening.
As for the poster who holds the truth; I don't believe it; it goes too far. Maybe she slept with another boys boyfriend; that kind of thing happens, maybe she slept with a few guys; that happens.
But your post claims she was slept around with other people's boyfriends, was a prostitute and was a peado's play thing; for gifts.
That to me sounds like the kind of crap bullies could turn a smaller, real scenario into in order to launch an attack.
I quite happily admit there may have been, even probably was, more to it than her cards in the YouTube video as like I said; stuff has a tendency to blow over; unless something is fuelling it.
It would not surprise me if that something may have been her stalker though.
You said that but it was not clear.
And it wasn't even me that made that comment anyway. It was a copy and paste job from a comment made on a picture that was posted on Facebook.
You did not make it easy to distinguish that you were talking about two different posts.
You said that but it was not clear.
And it wasn't even me that made that comment anyway. It was a copy and paste job from a comment made on a picture that was posted on Facebook.
Hence why I used the term "the poster who claims to hold the truth" as I don't know who said it and didn't want to give such vitriol post space and wouldn't want a confusing quote that looked like you said it.
I personally think it was clear provided you weren't skim reading the post.
Anyway, the reason I quoted "The Dove" in the first place and picked up on your quote is because... How to put this sensitively...
We know sexual predators exist and will do sick things; it is a shame when they aren't caught doing crap like this. I don't find sexual predator using gross behaviour or stalking a young girl "shocking". Sick, gross, wrong; yes. But shocking, no.
What I do find shocking is how the victim is turned, socially, into the aggressor, as this girl appears to have been. Naturally for many that will be the point about this that stands out most.
Your quote actually perfectly illustrates that. The girl was a victim, but has been made into "a ****".
If the quote did turn out to be true, it would still be twisted; as it would not make her "a ****", I would have even more sympathy for her; because it would be a sign that she had been further turned into a victim and that the support that should have been there and/or the action that should have been taken; had fundamentally failed.
This all kicked off because she showed her tits to him. So yeah, it was because of her actions.
Is she hadn't flashed her tits, he couldn't have shared the pictures.
And to be fair. She then added this fake account of Facebook even though she had never ever met him, because it was a fake alias.
She was very careless with her actions on social media. You should not add people you do not know.
She was 12 and a paedophile taked her into showing her breasts. Yes that wasn't clever, but she was 12 - just a child.
I hate mentioning this because I feel that people may think I'm being a bit of a drama queen and it can stiffle discussion, but I can tell you from personal experience that what this man did is exactly how some paedophiles operate - they talk you into doing something you later come to regret. They put you into situations that you don't expect and don't know how to react to because, well, you're a child! They can spend months being really nice to you, gaining your trust and then ask you to do something that you'd never normally do. And when you question them they say to you 'but why not? Don't you trust me?'
From my own experience the man spent months trying to gain my trust before any sexual acts were performed and I suspect the same thing may have happened her. In general even the most naive teen won't expose her breasts because some random has told them to do so.
It's not fair to say 'she shouldn't have flashed her tits' and when she did 'it was down to her own actions'. There was a grown adult encouraging her to do this. He set out to abuse a child and he was succesful in his actions.
It's never the childs fault when they are a victim of abuse, whatever mistakes they make. Children don't have the life experience that we have as adults and can't make the correct decisions all of the time.
She was 12 and a paedophile taked her into showing her breasts. Yes that wasn't clever, but she was 12 - just a child.
I hate mentioning this because I feel that people may think I'm being a bit of a drama queen and it can stiffle discussion, but I can tell you from personal experience that what this man did is exactly how some paedophiles operate - they talk you into doing something you later come to regret. They put you into situations that you don't expect and don't know how to react to because, well, you're a child! They can spend months being really nice to you, gaining your trust and then ask you to do something that you'd never normally do. And when you question them they say to you 'but why not? Don't you trust me?'
From my own experience the man spent months trying to gain my trust before any sexual acts were performed and I suspect the same thing may have happened her. In general even the most naive teen won't expose her breasts because some random has told them to do so.
It's not fair to say 'she shouldn't have flashed her tits' and when she did 'it was down to her own actions'. There was a grown adult encouraging her to do this. He set out to abuse a child and he was succesful in his actions.
It's never the childs fault when they are a victim of abuse, whatever mistakes they make. Children don't have the life experience that we have as adults and can't make the correct decisions all of the time.
Agreed. It would appear this young girl was systemically failed by a lot of adults. Parents not monitoring internet use, law enforcement failing to take action, schools not getting involved and Facebook staff who didn't act to remove pictures showing illegal content.
Posting her Youtube video and blaming her suicide on bullying is the easy way out.
I have. Make it very clear I did not make those remarks because that's how your post reads.
Those couple of paragraphs were not in response to you and I said "As for the poster who claims such and such" before that part of my post so clearly I was turning my attention elsewhere and I can't edit the post now anyway and its obvious from the rest of the thread I was not referring to you, both before and after the post.
This all kicked off because she showed her tits to him. So yeah, it was because of her actions.
Is she hadn't flashed her tits, he couldn't have shared the pictures.
And to be fair. She then added this fake account of Facebook even though she had never ever met him, because it was a fake alias.
She was very careless with her actions on social media. You should not add people you do not know.
And the fact that people are calling her an 'angel' is really annoying me. Angels don't go on the internet and flash their tits to a total stranger.
She was 12 years old! The fault lies with the paedophile here, not the child!
Even if I were offended by any of the posts I wouldn't be reporting them. I've often posted that I value freedom of speech and the thing is that saying one thing and then acting in a completely different manner would make me a ............hypocrite.
My post was about VG saying one thing and then acting in a completely different manner.
You then made a post making incorrect accusations and suggesting reporting something that didn't breach T&Cs, when you then say you wouldn't report.
You value freedom of speech yet you would like people not to speak freely if you don't like what they say?
I know the media are likely to jump on the "OMGZ EVIL INTERNET" and jump on the part where she flashed her tits but the major contributer to this sorry state of affairs seems to be her getting involved with a guy she knows has a girlfriend.
He says "my girlfriend is out of town, come over" and she goes and shags a guy she knows has a girlfriend and then can't handle the outcome, which involves him using her ("my girlfriend is out of town, come over" Seriously, c'mon, is anybody surprised) and the girlfriend showing her up.
I'm in no way blaming her, I genuinly feel sorry for the poor girl, nothing happened which was worth taking your life over, she obviously didn't see it that way and was emotionally unstable, not unusual for teenagers I guess but it;s sad she had to choose such a way out.
I just think that certain reasons for her doing this have been glossed over and media are focusing on the aspect which sells the story. I suppose that's to be expected, 15 year old girl knowingly shagging around with other girls boyfriends and then topping herself is a harder sell than internet pedo makes girl top herself.
I know the media are likely to jump on the "OMGZ EVIL INTERNET" and jump on the part where she flashed her tits but the major contributer to this sorry state of affairs seems to be her getting involved with a guy she knows has a girlfriend.
He says "my girlfriend is out of town, come over" and she goes and shags a guy she knows has a girlfriend and then can't handle the outcome, which involves him using her ("my girlfriend is out of town, come over" Seriously, c'mon, is anybody surprised) and the girlfriend showing her up.
I'm in no way blaming her, I genuinly feel sorry for the poor girl, nothing happened which was worth taking your life over, she obviously didn't see it that way and was emotionally unstable, not unusual for teenagers I guess but it;s sad she had to choose such a way out.
I just think that certain reasons for her doing this have been glossed over and media are focusing on the aspect which sells the story. I suppose that's to be expected, 15 year old girl knowingly shagging around with other girls boyfriends and then topping herself is a harder sell than internet pedo makes girl top herself.
She was 12 years old! The fault lies with the paedophile here, not the child!
I also agree. I think she was let down by a lot of people around her but to blame her and only her for being groomed seems rather strange to me. Grooming is what took place by a known offender on a 12yr old child.
Is this the girl that slept with a taken older man, and wondered why she got beaten up for it, sent a topless pixture to someone and it got spread around?
Im sorry, but sometimes you have to help yourself. Step away from the internet if it is that upsetting.
The good old days are over. It used to be you would leave school and the bullying would stop (aside from the odd phone call or text message) but now it follows you around on twitter, facebook etc.
Of course you NEED to attend school but you don't NEED to be online.I really wish social media wasn't made out to be the necessity that it's made out to be.
I left school a few years before this stuff was becoming popular and I'm really glad I missed out on it.
Yes, bullying is bad, and we can have events such as "stomp it out" (at least we did at my school) and we can post around Facebook and Twitter to make people aware of it, but I don't think it will make a difference - there will <b> always </b> be bullying and I don't think there's much anyone can do about it. It will always be around because some kids are just horrible and that won't change.
My post was about VG saying one thing and then acting in a completely different manner.
You then made a post making incorrect accusations andsuggesting reporting something that didn't breach T&Cs, when you then say you wouldn't report.
You value freedom of speech yet you would like people not to speak freely if you don't like what they say?
I didn't say anything about being a hypocrite.
I never said I wouldn't like people to speak freely Damanda so if you want to make an accusation like that you're going to have to back it up with something better than your opinion.
I prefer to challenge views rather than attempt to censor and my original point stands and anything else isn't relevant to the topic, which seems to have been exhausted now.
Comments
It wasn't just because of her own actions though. She was stalked by a paedophile:
From online source:
Amanda's ordeal began at the age of 12 when she was fooling around with friends and lifted her her top for someone on the other end of a webcam.
The person was not a boy of her age though, but a suspected paedophile from across the border in America, who went on to terrorise her right up until her death.
“The Internet stalker she flashed kept stalking her,” said Ms Todd. “Every time she moved schools he would go undercover and become a Facebook friend.
"He went online to the kids who went to (the new school) and said that he was going to be a new student - that he was starting school the following week and that he wanted some friends and could they friend him on Facebook.
“He eventually gathered people’s names and sent Amanda’s video to her new school.”
The video and photos went to teachers and parents as well as pupils.
The bullies began to taunt her with names such as "porn star" and Amanda became anxious, withdrawn and desperate to avoid going to lessons.
Police were never able to track her stalker down, but they did trace the messages to the United States.
Despite their investigations though, the man continued to stalk Amanda, and even threatened to circulate the pictures again unless she gave him another "show".
She refused so he carried out his threat, and her pain was amplified by her classmates who it's claimed shared the photos on their cellphones.
She was verbally abused and beaten up, and incredibly Amanda is still being targeted by vile online abuse even after her death.
I really disliked that post and found it quite offensive to women generally. I hope others would have more compassion and consider what it would be like had it been their daughter that had died.
Even if I were offended by any of the posts I wouldn't be reporting them. I've often posted that I value freedom of speech and the thing is that saying one thing and then acting in a completely different manner would make me a ............hypocrite.
Yes I'm aware of that and separated the two; someone blackmailing her who I said it was a shame he got away with it and was not caught and then the separate issue where she was being bullied by other kids about it.
Myself and pleanty of others have poured scorn over both occurrences.
I didn't realise she was 12 at the time though, I assumed she was about 15; so put her actions down to teens doing something ill advised (it doesn't sound like she was groomed as such).
Her cards said they so I assumed she was coerced by a group who may have been teens if it was a teen site; maybe with some predators in there too; well at least one, who then went on to do what's happened here.
But 12 just makes the whole thing sickening.
As for the poster who holds the truth; I don't believe it; it goes too far. Maybe she slept with another boys boyfriend; that kind of thing happens, maybe she slept with a few guys; that happens.
But your post claims she was slept around with other people's boyfriends, was a prostitute and was a peado's play thing; for gifts.
That to me sounds like the kind of crap bullies could turn a smaller, real scenario into in order to launch an attack.
I quite happily admit there may have been, even probably was, more to it than her cards in the YouTube video as like I said; stuff has a tendency to blow over; unless something is fuelling it.
It would not surprise me if that something may have been her stalker though.
I never said any such thing so kindly read back and amend your accusation.
Is she hadn't flashed her tits, he couldn't have shared the pictures.
And to be fair. She then added this fake account of Facebook even though she had never ever met him, because it was a fake alias.
She was very careless with her actions on social media. You should not add people you do not know.
And the fact that people are calling her an 'angel' is really annoying me. Angels don't go on the internet and flash their tits to a total stranger.
That was not you.
It was in a quote that I took from a Facebook comment.
Some people really need to read the forums posts correctly don't they.
Read my post again.
You said that but it was not clear.
And it wasn't even me that made that comment anyway. It was a copy and paste job from a comment made on a picture that was posted on Facebook.
Hence why I used the term "the poster who claims to hold the truth" as I don't know who said it and didn't want to give such vitriol post space and wouldn't want a confusing quote that looked like you said it.
I personally think it was clear provided you weren't skim reading the post.
Anyway, the reason I quoted "The Dove" in the first place and picked up on your quote is because... How to put this sensitively...
We know sexual predators exist and will do sick things; it is a shame when they aren't caught doing crap like this. I don't find sexual predator using gross behaviour or stalking a young girl "shocking". Sick, gross, wrong; yes. But shocking, no.
What I do find shocking is how the victim is turned, socially, into the aggressor, as this girl appears to have been. Naturally for many that will be the point about this that stands out most.
Your quote actually perfectly illustrates that. The girl was a victim, but has been made into "a ****".
If the quote did turn out to be true, it would still be twisted; as it would not make her "a ****", I would have even more sympathy for her; because it would be a sign that she had been further turned into a victim and that the support that should have been there and/or the action that should have been taken; had fundamentally failed.
That I find more tragic and sad.
She was 12 and a paedophile taked her into showing her breasts. Yes that wasn't clever, but she was 12 - just a child.
I hate mentioning this because I feel that people may think I'm being a bit of a drama queen and it can stiffle discussion, but I can tell you from personal experience that what this man did is exactly how some paedophiles operate - they talk you into doing something you later come to regret. They put you into situations that you don't expect and don't know how to react to because, well, you're a child! They can spend months being really nice to you, gaining your trust and then ask you to do something that you'd never normally do. And when you question them they say to you 'but why not? Don't you trust me?'
From my own experience the man spent months trying to gain my trust before any sexual acts were performed and I suspect the same thing may have happened her. In general even the most naive teen won't expose her breasts because some random has told them to do so.
It's not fair to say 'she shouldn't have flashed her tits' and when she did 'it was down to her own actions'. There was a grown adult encouraging her to do this. He set out to abuse a child and he was succesful in his actions.
It's never the childs fault when they are a victim of abuse, whatever mistakes they make. Children don't have the life experience that we have as adults and can't make the correct decisions all of the time.
I have. Make it very clear I did not make those remarks because that's how your post reads.
Agreed. It would appear this young girl was systemically failed by a lot of adults. Parents not monitoring internet use, law enforcement failing to take action, schools not getting involved and Facebook staff who didn't act to remove pictures showing illegal content.
Posting her Youtube video and blaming her suicide on bullying is the easy way out.
Those couple of paragraphs were not in response to you and I said "As for the poster who claims such and such" before that part of my post so clearly I was turning my attention elsewhere and I can't edit the post now anyway and its obvious from the rest of the thread I was not referring to you, both before and after the post.
My post was about VG saying one thing and then acting in a completely different manner.
You then made a post making incorrect accusations and suggesting reporting something that didn't breach T&Cs, when you then say you wouldn't report.
You value freedom of speech yet you would like people not to speak freely if you don't like what they say?
I didn't say anything about being a hypocrite.
Absolutely agree.
Anyone in their right mind would agree with this!
It makes me feel so angry :mad: that so many idiots are trying to put the blame on this CHILD!
He says "my girlfriend is out of town, come over" and she goes and shags a guy she knows has a girlfriend and then can't handle the outcome, which involves him using her ("my girlfriend is out of town, come over" Seriously, c'mon, is anybody surprised) and the girlfriend showing her up.
I'm in no way blaming her, I genuinly feel sorry for the poor girl, nothing happened which was worth taking your life over, she obviously didn't see it that way and was emotionally unstable, not unusual for teenagers I guess but it;s sad she had to choose such a way out.
I just think that certain reasons for her doing this have been glossed over and media are focusing on the aspect which sells the story. I suppose that's to be expected, 15 year old girl knowingly shagging around with other girls boyfriends and then topping herself is a harder sell than internet pedo makes girl top herself.
And yet it reads as if you are.
I'm making a point of the media's focus on the story, I'm passing no judgement on Amanda Todd or her actions.
I also agree. I think she was let down by a lot of people around her but to blame her and only her for being groomed seems rather strange to me. Grooming is what took place by a known offender on a 12yr old child.
Im sorry, but sometimes you have to help yourself. Step away from the internet if it is that upsetting.
Of course you NEED to attend school but you don't NEED to be online.I really wish social media wasn't made out to be the necessity that it's made out to be.
I left school a few years before this stuff was becoming popular and I'm really glad I missed out on it.
I never said I wouldn't like people to speak freely Damanda so if you want to make an accusation like that you're going to have to back it up with something better than your opinion.
I prefer to challenge views rather than attempt to censor and my original point stands and anything else isn't relevant to the topic, which seems to have been exhausted now.