I think you may be the first Prisoner fan to not like The Freak. Or at least the first one I've heard of.
Personally I love The Freak from start to finish.
I'll admit she did soften too much and become too politically correct (her disgust at the racism aimed at Sara West didn't ring true) and toned down as the series went on though.
I'm not sure I agree.
As a lesbian, she was part of a minority group which would have been persecuted. Even though she was bitter and twisted, she would have understood the persecution Sarah would be going through and therefore have empathy for another minority group.
I think this was very clever and advanced writing for its time.
Ah yes, rings a bell. A fitting, pathetic exit for such a pathetic character
I believe it was during the mass escape following the singing competition.
Ann was disgusted that Minnie, an older inmate, did not do enough to stop the likes of young Bobbie from escaping, and therefore transferred her to a "tough" block where she could have no influence over the stronger inmates.
All of this from memory, but I believe this to be correct.
I couldn't disagree more. I think she was anything but one dimensional.
Before the inmates killed her prisoner girlfriend, she was shown to be a much softer woman.
Her love for her father and dogs showed a caring and loyal woman to her family and friends.
Her scenes with Shane showed how she longed for nothing more than to be a motherly figure, but never would have the opportunity.
The failed relationship with Terri showed her longing for a relationship, but didn't know how.
Her friendship with Andrew and his subsequent death showed the lonely side of The Freak who longed for a friend.
I personally think Vera and Joan were cut from the same mould, but were portrayed by two actressed in different ways. All of the above can be used against Vera's character but by simply changing some names.
I don't recall ever seeing Joan portrayed as a 'softer woman', maybe she was but perhaps I missed it. I think there were allusions to it but nothing significant. There was that scene where she reminisced about a previous lover whilst undertaking some predatory sexual advances towards an inmate, perhaps this is why Joan's softer side didn't quite hit home for me, as these virtues were often overshadowed by odious actions.
Admittedly, she showed affection towards her dogs and her father and there were scenarios which could have challenged our perception of Joan but they were often fleeting or never really explored, unlike Vera whose inner turmoil and shots at redemption were clearly illustrated.
Another problem for me was the lack of motive for her actions, other than just being 'evil', which is fine and dandy but after a while a bit monotonous. OK, she wanted Smith out of the way so she could continue with her corruption racket but other than that, I fail to understand why she was constantly vile, other than to be the shows villain.
I don't recall ever seeing Joan portrayed as a 'softer woman', maybe she was but perhaps I missed it. I think there were allusions to it but nothing significant. There was that scene where she reminisced about a previous lover whilst undertaking some predatory sexual advances towards an inmate, perhaps this is why Joan's softer side didn't quite hit home for me, as these virtues were often overshadowed by odious actions.
There were flashbacks to her relationship with Audrey. Joan also went to her grave once and there was a discussion with the father who admitted he knew how hurt she was to have lost Audrey.
Admittedly, she showed affection towards her dogs and her father and there were scenarios which could have challenged our perception of Joan but they were often fleeting or never really explored, unlike Vera whose inner turmoil and shots at redemption were clearly illustrated.
I think they explored this well with Joan over the course of her time there. Her attempts to be friends at one of Ann's parties with the other inmates was a cry out for friendship. There were the many depressing scenes where she was so lonely at home, reading a book on her own with a whisky in hand. She eventually went out to play golf on her own where she befriended Andrew.
Another problem for me was the lack of motive for her actions, other than just being 'evil', which is fine and dandy but after a while a bit monotonous. OK, she wanted Smith out of the way so she could continue with her corruption racket but other than that, I fail to understand why she was constantly vile, other than to be the shows villain.
Because of her complete loneliness, lack of family, partners etc, she was so constantly vile as being the queen of the prison was all she had in her life. She started being evil towards inmates as they killed her girlfriend which in turn alienated her from the rest of the world as she became so bitter and lonely.
IMO, her motives were much more than simply to be the shows villain. Joan's background, and lack of kindness in her life led her to becoming a bitter, lonely woman with nothing more than conquering all in her way at her place of work as the only thing she had control over.
There were flashbacks to her relationship with Audrey. Joan also went to her grave once and there was a discussion with the father who admitted he knew how hurt she was to have lost Audrey.
I think they explored this well with Joan over the course of her time there. Her attempts to be friends at one of Ann's parties with the other inmates was a cry out for friendship. There were the many depressing scenes where she was so lonely at home, reading a book on her own with a whisky in hand. She eventually went out to play golf on her own where she befriended Andrew.
Because of her complete loneliness, lack of family, partners etc, she was so constantly vile as being the queen of the prison was all she had in her life. She started being evil towards inmates as they killed her girlfriend which in turn alienated her from the rest of the world as she became so bitter and lonely.
IMO, her motives were much more than simply to be the shows villain. Joan's background, and lack of kindness in her life led her to becoming a bitter, lonely woman with nothing more than conquering all in her way at her place of work as the only thing she had control over.
I remain unconvinced.
As you mentioned, there were similarities between Joan and Vera, the main being their miserable backgrounds and I think both showed, to varying degrees the impact that such background had on their character but Vera was always very vocal in her ambitions and in doing so, it justified her actions, both good and bad, we never got that with Joan, so we have to do a bit of guess work.
I suspect there was probably better writers handling Vera's character so by the time we get to Joan it's a bit less drama and more soap and her antics are often treated as a convenient catalyst for ailing story lines.
I think she has her moments but the latter half of the show becomes so dependent on and she really hasn't delivered evidence of much in the way of depth of character to pull it off.
I think she would have probably been a more favorable character with me had she had a break for a while and made a dramatic return. Absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say.
As you mentioned, there were similarities between Joan and Vera, the main being their miserable backgrounds and I think both showed, to varying degrees the impact that such background had on their character but Vera was always very vocal in her ambitions and in doing so, it justified her actions, both good and bad, we never got that with Joan, so we have to do a bit of guess work.
I suspect there was probably better writers handling Vera's character so by the time we get to Joan it's a bit less drama and more soap and her antics are often treated as a convenient catalyst for ailing story lines.
I think she has her moments but the latter half of the show becomes so dependent on and she really hasn't delivered evidence of much in the way of depth of character to pull it off.
I think she would have probably been a more favorable character with me had she had a break for a while and made a dramatic return. Absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say.
I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.
I personally found Joan's character to be a re-hash of Vera but more violent due to her complete hatred for the women due to them murdering her lover.
I guess it's all about what the viewer gets from a character, and I think we both get different things here.
That said and done, I liked Vera and Joan in equal measure. They both made me laugh, feel sorry for them, enjoy their dramatic performances etc. And I think both actresses were excellent in their portrayal.
I think there is definitely some truth in your writers comment. By the time Joan was on the scene, it was another soap with many writers coming up with dramatic storylines to hook the viewers. A lot of research and character development went into the beginning of Prisoner which obviously included Vera - perhaps giving the original writers more time to think about developing the background to Vera in greater depth.
I think Vera wasn't a villain. At least in my opinion. She was a very tough Prisoner Officer but also one who was totally by the book. I can't recall Vera ever doing anything that would have made her bent. She may have been close to the line a few times but she never crossed it. Unless my memory is playing tricks. Joan on the other hand was spiteful, bitter and most defo bent! she would do things just to be cruel rather than just to stick by the rule book.
Both showed softer sides but I think Vera was more human out of the two. I actually felt far more sorry for Vera's home situation than I ever did the freak. Lizzie and Vera's relationship was also quite interesting. They shared some personal scenes several times.
I think Vera wasn't a villain. At least in my opinion. She was a very tough Prisoner Officer but also one who was totally by the book. I can't recall Vera ever doing anything that would have made her bent. She may have been close to the line a few times but she never crossed it. Joan on the other hand was spiteful, bitter and most defo bent! she would do things just to be cruel rather than just to stick by the rule book.
Both showed softer sides but I think Vera was more human out of the two. I actually felt far more sorry for Vera's home situation than I ever did the freak.
I think they were both brilliant characters but I always preferred The Freak. I agree though that Vera was very firm but never did anything really bad, the worst I can think of is shutting Ann Yates in the dryer:eek: and that was an accident.
Also does anyone remember who came up with the nickname The Freak for Ferguson, I'm pretty sure Chrissie Latham calls her that freak, before she has been given the nickname, but I can't think who actually started calling her The Freak.
Vera wasn't corrupt - Joan was. For me that was the key difference
I think everything bottomed out for Vera when she was drinking heavily. Of course she had to go into work to cover for Barfield who was ill, and of course she had been on the pop beforehand
So of course the women sussed that she was drunk and managed to get her further under the influence when Lizzie swiped the sherry from Erica's office and the women poured it down Vera's throat
Unsurprisigly Vera's keys went walkies - and Erica hit the roof
the clips they showed on This Morning were of Prisoner..Sharon just gave Wentworth a brief mention which is not a "return" its a totally new show but a re-imagined one of Prisoner
Okay only saying what I have seen. Of cause it is going to be new cast, considering some of them have died since.
Don't get me wrong I love PCBH and my thoughts are the same as yours. I would love see it all again though for bad or good, only if they redo story lines like for like.:p
Merle has just been carted off to Ingleside so that must mean that I'm nearing the end....it really has picked up in the last 20 or so episodes.... still think it was the right time to end it though.
The character who I liked the most was Erica. And Patsy King got her just about right - firm but fair and the women really seemed to like her as well as she did the right thing by them
And the other thing Patsy managed to get comedy into it seemingly without trying
Those put downs of "That will be all Miss Bennett"
"May I remind you Miss Bennett that I am the governor here"
I think Vera wasn't a villain. At least in my opinion. She was a very tough Prisoner Officer but also one who was totally by the book. I can't recall Vera ever doing anything that would have made her bent. She may have been close to the line a few times but she never crossed it. Unless my memory is playing tricks. Joan on the other hand was spiteful, bitter and most defo bent! she would do things just to be cruel rather than just to stick by the rule book.
Both showed softer sides but I think Vera was more human out of the two. I actually felt far more sorry for Vera's home situation than I ever did the freak. Lizzie and Vera's relationship was also quite interesting. They shared some personal scenes several times.
no, Vera wasn't a villain just an odious jobsworth. As you say, her relationship with someone like Lizzie was an interesting one, a combination of empathy and disgust, not an easy combination to pull off but Spence did this with aplomb and it's little nuances like that really gave her the edge over Joan in my book.
Even Colleen was more interesting than Joan, undergoing a bit of character development, going from naive novice to Ice Maiden then finally settling into the sarcastic but level headed Deputy Governor role.
I didn't dislike Joan. As villains go, she was absolutely one of the finest but as I mentioned before, it just becomes a bit monotonous.
The character who I liked the most was Erica. And Patsy King got her just about right - firm but fair and the women really seemed to like her as well as she did the right thing by them
And the other thing Patsy managed to get comedy into it seemingly without trying
Those put downs of "That will be all Miss Bennett"
"May I remind you Miss Bennett that I am the governor here"
Erica was my all time favorite character. After knocking Joan for lack of character development, it feels a bit rich of me championing Erica/Patsy.
So why did I like Erica so much? Well, firstly, Patsy's acting style was unique and by unique I mean catastrophic.
It has to be said, her graceful, Hitchcockian heroine act was faultless..... the only problem was it was totally out of context with the rest of the cast or indeed the show itself but this only served to make her presence all the more beguiling.....who or what exactly was this woman?
Just seeing her mincing around the prison in her twinset and pearls was a joyful spectacle in itself and when required to deliver lines of authority, there was a sense of almost rapturous awe as her voice became even shriller.
Her greatest ever performance was when she was kidnapped (the first time) by the prisoners during the riot, though that accolade in fact doesn't necessarily go to Pasty but to Patsy's hair. This called for real drama and whilst the facial expression were at odds at illustrating that point, her dishevelled do more than compensated for any lack of skills in the acting department. In fact, her flamboyant bouffant was quite often the scene stealer.
Icy glares masking fluffed lines, valiant but utterly flawed attempts at action scenes and the less said about her romance scenes the better.
Nobody on set could ever upstage Erica, nobody even tried, she was a force of nature.
Yes, Prisoner was camp, thanks not just to burly dykes swinging each other by the hair into cardboard walls but mainly thanks to a governor of a prison that was as camp as xmas.
Watching ep569 - Officer Wendy Ward speaks - after all these years as a silent background officer! And I have to say, she has a lovely voice! Seems like a nice character!
Comments
I'm not sure I agree.
As a lesbian, she was part of a minority group which would have been persecuted. Even though she was bitter and twisted, she would have understood the persecution Sarah would be going through and therefore have empathy for another minority group.
I think this was very clever and advanced writing for its time.
I believe it was during the mass escape following the singing competition.
Ann was disgusted that Minnie, an older inmate, did not do enough to stop the likes of young Bobbie from escaping, and therefore transferred her to a "tough" block where she could have no influence over the stronger inmates.
All of this from memory, but I believe this to be correct.
I don't recall ever seeing Joan portrayed as a 'softer woman', maybe she was but perhaps I missed it. I think there were allusions to it but nothing significant. There was that scene where she reminisced about a previous lover whilst undertaking some predatory sexual advances towards an inmate, perhaps this is why Joan's softer side didn't quite hit home for me, as these virtues were often overshadowed by odious actions.
Admittedly, she showed affection towards her dogs and her father and there were scenarios which could have challenged our perception of Joan but they were often fleeting or never really explored, unlike Vera whose inner turmoil and shots at redemption were clearly illustrated.
Another problem for me was the lack of motive for her actions, other than just being 'evil', which is fine and dandy but after a while a bit monotonous. OK, she wanted Smith out of the way so she could continue with her corruption racket but other than that, I fail to understand why she was constantly vile, other than to be the shows villain.
There were flashbacks to her relationship with Audrey. Joan also went to her grave once and there was a discussion with the father who admitted he knew how hurt she was to have lost Audrey.
I think they explored this well with Joan over the course of her time there. Her attempts to be friends at one of Ann's parties with the other inmates was a cry out for friendship. There were the many depressing scenes where she was so lonely at home, reading a book on her own with a whisky in hand. She eventually went out to play golf on her own where she befriended Andrew.
Because of her complete loneliness, lack of family, partners etc, she was so constantly vile as being the queen of the prison was all she had in her life. She started being evil towards inmates as they killed her girlfriend which in turn alienated her from the rest of the world as she became so bitter and lonely.
IMO, her motives were much more than simply to be the shows villain. Joan's background, and lack of kindness in her life led her to becoming a bitter, lonely woman with nothing more than conquering all in her way at her place of work as the only thing she had control over.
I remain unconvinced.
As you mentioned, there were similarities between Joan and Vera, the main being their miserable backgrounds and I think both showed, to varying degrees the impact that such background had on their character but Vera was always very vocal in her ambitions and in doing so, it justified her actions, both good and bad, we never got that with Joan, so we have to do a bit of guess work.
I suspect there was probably better writers handling Vera's character so by the time we get to Joan it's a bit less drama and more soap and her antics are often treated as a convenient catalyst for ailing story lines.
I think she has her moments but the latter half of the show becomes so dependent on and she really hasn't delivered evidence of much in the way of depth of character to pull it off.
I think she would have probably been a more favorable character with me had she had a break for a while and made a dramatic return. Absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say.
I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.
I personally found Joan's character to be a re-hash of Vera but more violent due to her complete hatred for the women due to them murdering her lover.
I guess it's all about what the viewer gets from a character, and I think we both get different things here.
That said and done, I liked Vera and Joan in equal measure. They both made me laugh, feel sorry for them, enjoy their dramatic performances etc. And I think both actresses were excellent in their portrayal.
I think there is definitely some truth in your writers comment. By the time Joan was on the scene, it was another soap with many writers coming up with dramatic storylines to hook the viewers. A lot of research and character development went into the beginning of Prisoner which obviously included Vera - perhaps giving the original writers more time to think about developing the background to Vera in greater depth.
Some Favourite characters:
1. Lou Kelly
2. Joan Ferguson
3. Rita Connors
4. Lexi Patterson
5.Randi Goodlove
6.Duncan Campbell (the Scottish gangster)
7.Frank Burke
8.Bobbi Mitchell
9.Kate Peterson
10.Reb Keane
11.Ros Coulson
12.Marie Winter
13.Vicki McPherson
14. Sharon Gilmour
And some periphery characters who I liked: Kathleen Leach, Gloria Payne, Kath Deacon.
Because of Prisoner being such a long programme, there’s probably a few I’m forgetting.
Great list, I liked all of them:D. Good to see Kathleen, Gloria and Kath get a mention, characters like them were very important to the show.
Ashamed to say though I don't remember Duncan Campbell.
Bloody Duncan Campbell!
I think Vera wasn't a villain. At least in my opinion. She was a very tough Prisoner Officer but also one who was totally by the book. I can't recall Vera ever doing anything that would have made her bent. She may have been close to the line a few times but she never crossed it. Unless my memory is playing tricks. Joan on the other hand was spiteful, bitter and most defo bent! she would do things just to be cruel rather than just to stick by the rule book.
Both showed softer sides but I think Vera was more human out of the two. I actually felt far more sorry for Vera's home situation than I ever did the freak. Lizzie and Vera's relationship was also quite interesting. They shared some personal scenes several times.
I think they were both brilliant characters but I always preferred The Freak. I agree though that Vera was very firm but never did anything really bad, the worst I can think of is shutting Ann Yates in the dryer:eek: and that was an accident.
Duncan Campbell was one of the gangsters that Chrissie Latham got mixed up with, I think.
Oh thanks, I think I know the one you mean, the one who threatened her daughter.
Yeah, that's the one.
I think everything bottomed out for Vera when she was drinking heavily. Of course she had to go into work to cover for Barfield who was ill, and of course she had been on the pop beforehand
Unsurprisigly Vera's keys went walkies - and Erica hit the roof
I really wish they could have got her back. Even for a guest stint. Seeing her running Barnhirst would have been ace.
He was.
I thought Joan was great, loved the episodes with her and Shane
I was genuinely touched when Lizzie gave Vera that little pep talk in the rec room just before Vera left for Barnhurst
Was sad when Vera and indeed Mr Fletcher left, but the payoff was that we got The Freak eventually and the rest as they say is history.......
Okay only saying what I have seen. Of cause it is going to be new cast, considering some of them have died since.
Don't get me wrong I love PCBH and my thoughts are the same as yours. I would love see it all again though for bad or good, only if they redo story lines like for like.:p
And the other thing Patsy managed to get comedy into it seemingly without trying
Those put downs of "That will be all Miss Bennett"
"May I remind you Miss Bennett that I am the governor here"
no, Vera wasn't a villain just an odious jobsworth. As you say, her relationship with someone like Lizzie was an interesting one, a combination of empathy and disgust, not an easy combination to pull off but Spence did this with aplomb and it's little nuances like that really gave her the edge over Joan in my book.
Even Colleen was more interesting than Joan, undergoing a bit of character development, going from naive novice to Ice Maiden then finally settling into the sarcastic but level headed Deputy Governor role.
I didn't dislike Joan. As villains go, she was absolutely one of the finest but as I mentioned before, it just becomes a bit monotonous.
Erica was my all time favorite character. After knocking Joan for lack of character development, it feels a bit rich of me championing Erica/Patsy.
So why did I like Erica so much? Well, firstly, Patsy's acting style was unique and by unique I mean catastrophic.
It has to be said, her graceful, Hitchcockian heroine act was faultless..... the only problem was it was totally out of context with the rest of the cast or indeed the show itself but this only served to make her presence all the more beguiling.....who or what exactly was this woman?
Just seeing her mincing around the prison in her twinset and pearls was a joyful spectacle in itself and when required to deliver lines of authority, there was a sense of almost rapturous awe as her voice became even shriller.
Her greatest ever performance was when she was kidnapped (the first time) by the prisoners during the riot, though that accolade in fact doesn't necessarily go to Pasty but to Patsy's hair. This called for real drama and whilst the facial expression were at odds at illustrating that point, her dishevelled do more than compensated for any lack of skills in the acting department. In fact, her flamboyant bouffant was quite often the scene stealer.
Icy glares masking fluffed lines, valiant but utterly flawed attempts at action scenes and the less said about her romance scenes the better.
Nobody on set could ever upstage Erica, nobody even tried, she was a force of nature.
Yes, Prisoner was camp, thanks not just to burly dykes swinging each other by the hair into cardboard walls but mainly thanks to a governor of a prison that was as camp as xmas.
I salute you Erica.