Personally I think 6pm is a perfect time. It is the traditional family viewing slot time
When i was growing up we would get together in the living room and watch some tat like family fortunes or generation game together before my parents went out for the evening. Brilliant
I cannot wait to sit with my eldest on the 23rd, at a time which suits BOTH of us. then after it finishes she has over an hour to wind down before bed time
Nope. Column 4 is what you're after. Column 2 is just overnights for One + HD. And chart position is for the whole week - not just the spot of it's first broadcast (and multiple Coronation Streets/Eastenders can be on a weekly chart). I think you'll find it's not 'cobbled together'. It seems to me that people are trying to avoid the fact that it seems Doctor Who is just as popular as it has been since it came back. Not sure why you would want to though.
But this is my point - column 2 is the 'final' viewing figure. It's the one everyone has referred to over the years - but now we have a new column with additional viewers who are likely to have already been counted. One person could end up being counted five or six times if that's how many times they've watched the episode (since no one has answered my BBC iPlayer question, I assume those figures are 'number of views' rather than 'number of viewers').
The chart does not include mulitple soap episodes across the whole week (unless that's a new chart as well). So Who should be in the top five.
The reason I am being more critical about the wealth of data being thrown all over the place is I worked for the BBC for many years and I know the difference between 'fan facts' and the industry standards.
Secondly, I worry that the decision to split the season was because SM wasn't able to maintain interest across a 13 episode run and not because of changing viewer habits.
Much like many other programmes these days (excluding live events of course), in keeping with the availability of technology to timeshift. Must-watch (or event) TV is reserved for those live events of one-off specials.
And of course, if it is recorded, then it's just as likely that they will watch it rather than not watch it.
Hardly an issue when other top-rating programmes are timeshifted, when people do so because the technology is there for them to use (and use they do, in increasing numbers), when the available viewings are split across a number of channels and days (as in narrative or near-time repeats) and when the broadcasters properly understand the changing viewing habits and causes of those changes.
Mossy, you make some really logical and good points and I'm not about to refute any of them.
But unfortunately, not every household has a PVR or iPlayer. I don't have iPlayer but I have a PVR. To many households, watching TV as it occurrs is still the way it's done. Even broadcasters realise this, otherwise why would they need schedulers to devise a good competitive schedule? This is evident on Christmas Day when by and large BBC1 becomes an unstoppable ratings smash because of the way things are scheduled and the things that are on. If the broadcasters really didn't mind about overnights, Doctor Who would be on at the same time as BGT because it didn't matter.
I am happy to take on board people's knowledge and viewpoints though and I will go along with "No need to worry, it'll do just fine" opinions.
Mossy, you make some really logical and good points and I'm not about to refute any of them.
Thanks.
But unfortunately, not every household has a PVR or iPlayer.
But those that don't might have a VCR. And of those that don't, how many would be likely to be DW viewers who would also be deterred by the earlier start?
And of those who don't have a VCR, how many might not have Sky+ or the Virgin equivalent, V+? We could now be talking about a figure that is very low indeed (no PVR, no iPlayer, no VCR, no Sky+, no V+ but might be interested in DW).
To many households, watching TV as it occurrs is still the way it's done. Even broadcasters realise this,
But they are also realising that habits are now changing. Yes the bulk might still be live, but an increasing number of people now use the technology at their disposal to arrange their viewing around what suits them (and why not, that, in a sense, is what it is there for as Barry Norman would say).
otherwise why would they need schedulers to devise a good competitive schedule? This is evident on Christmas Day when by and large BBC1 becomes an unstoppable ratings smash because of the way things are scheduled and the things that are on.
I think that Christmas Day is still one of those special occasions with the family, in front of the TV. It is a day and time that is not comparable with any other day (apart from Boxing Day and maybe New Years Day). Yes, competitive schedules (or ones that provide an alternative) are still important, but with the increasing use of timeshift and the broadcast use of narrative repeats, this importance is lessening as time goes on.
If the broadcasters really didn't mind about overnights, Doctor Who would be on at the same time as BGT because it didn't matter.
Or perhaps, at the moment, they realise that they do need to please the numbers who DO watch live (number that might still be in the majority), even though those that don't are likely to be increasing. Bear in mind that we are not at the state where live viewing is dead in the water, just that it is not as important as it once was (and is likely to reduce in importance as time goes on). Maybe in a number of years time we will see DW scheduled against BGT, but I suspect that time will be some time away just yet.
As a first timer in this part of DS can i say how peed off i am that the steaming pile of Paul's Poo better known as ratings cancer ,SYTYCD has the plum slot that should be the sole domain of DW. Why on earth BBC are you willing to sacrifice DW for a show that is about as delightful as a fart in the Tardis.?
Well I think the 6pm slot will be disastrous. There seems to be no explanation for the BBC taking Doctor Who out of prime time and putting it on early evening.
Some newspapers recently reported that Doctor Who's viewing figures are going down "year on year". That is because the first three series were on at 7pm, the fourth was mixed 6.30-6.45, the fifth was 6.15-6.20 and the sixth is 6pm. No newspaper will ever qualify the fact that the figures are going down becasue the show is being gradually shunted into a less and less peak time slot.
This is very disappointing an I believe worthy of a compalint to see if we can get it moved.
Well I think the 6pm slot will be disastrous. There seems to be no explanation for the BBC taking Doctor Who out of prime time and putting it on early evening.
Some newspapers recently reported that Doctor Who's viewing figures are going down "year on year". That is because the first three series were on at 7pm, the fourth was mixed 6.30-6.45, the fifth was 6.15-6.20 and the sixth is 6pm. No newspaper will ever qualify the fact that the figures are going down becasue the show is being gradually shunted into a less and less peak time slot.
This is very disappointing an I believe worthy of a compalint to see if we can get it moved.
And I take it that these newspapers (and yourself, judging by your post) have taken account of the changes in viewing habits, more timeshifting and people catching the narrative repeat showing a day or two later (as previously discussed in this thread, and borne out by healthy overall viewing figures, figures of 8-10 million that many prime-time programmes would kill for)?
I fully expect similar timeslots for all remaining 6 episodes of the first half of the series.
Next episode (ep2) is 6pm
Ep3 is 6.15pm
Ep4 (Eurovision Day) will most definetely be at 6.00pm so that at 6.45pm SYTYCD can be on before the Lottery at 7.50pm. Eurovision HAS to start at 8pm! The only change that week will more than likely be the SYTYCD results moving to Sunday!
So, with just 3 episodes after that, there is not much point in moving the time. Especially if 6 million viewers tune in at that time. Merlin had slightly higher overnights shown later but the catch up figures weren't as high.
The final ratings come out just over a week after the overnight ratings. Since we don't have the final ratings for TIA and since we know the time-shift is likely to be massive, it's utter nonsense to compare the overnight ratings for this episode to the final ratings of the other series episodes, which is what is recorded in the table up thread. The dates have nothing to do with it.
Now this is why 6pm doesn't work as a timeslot for Doctor Who on BBC one.
Also only one repeat of the programme this week at 7pm on BBC three.
But it was the second most watched programme that night. Only beaten by BGT. On a sunny day... I think 6.5 million (sandwiched between two very low audience shows) was therefore very good.
And it was the highest audience gained for BBC over the weekend (not including the Bank Holidays). I don't see the fuss.
I fully expect similar time slots for all remaining 6 episodes of the first half of the series.
Next episode (ep2) is 6pm
Ep3 is 6.15pm
Ep4 (Eurovision Day) will most definitely be at 6.00pm so that at 6.45pm SYTYCD can be on before the Lottery at 7.50pm. Eurovision HAS to start at 8pm! The only change that week will more than likely be the SYTYCD results moving to Sunday!
So, with just 3 episodes after that, there is not much point in moving the time. Especially if 6 million viewers tune in at that time. Merlin had slightly higher overnights shown later but the catch up figures weren't as high.
Episode 6 i believe clashes with the European cup final (likely to be Man U - Barcelona) So that's episode starting a 6pm.
The game kicks off at 7:15pm on ITV & Sky. I don't think the BBC will run it against it... There too scared now to run it against 'So you think you can sing' as it is now!;)
But it was the second most watched programme that night. Only beaten by BGT. On a sunny day... I think 6.5 million (sandwiched between two very low audience shows) was therefore very good.
And it was the highest audience gained for BBC over the weekend (not including the Bank Holidays). I don't see the fuss.
Its got around 34% of the viewing public I believe, which is fairly typical. So its not losing share. BGT was also massively down on numbers due to the sun.
I just hope the rest of the series doesn't lose out because people missed the start.
Its got around 34% of the viewing public I believe, which is fairly typical. So its not losing share. BGT was also massively down on numbers due to the sun.
I just hope the rest of the series doesn't lose out because people missed the start.
I hope not, too - I'm looking forward to watching it again just before the next episode though (at my sister's - she's got it saved on Sky+).
I think that with iPlayer and V+ and Sky+. though, people don't feel as tied down by programmes they want to watch. I quite like the direction TV watching habits are going (even though I don't necessarily like with the quality of the majority of the output!).
The final ratings come out just over a week after the overnight ratings. Since we don't have the final ratings for TIA and since we know the time-shift is likely to be massive, it's utter nonsense to compare the overnight ratings for this episode to the final ratings of the other series episodes, which is what is recorded in the table up thread. The dates have nothing to do with it.
Those figures I have quoted off the BBC are all the overnight figures.
Regardless of BBC iPlayer, Sky +, Freeview +, etc... Doctor Who's ratings at the 6-6.45pm slot have been the worst series opener since it returned in 2005, fact!
What your saying takes into account all recording devices etc... I'm focusing on that particular time slot, which suggests that the BBC schedulers made a massive mistake and that Doctor Who should be on at 7pm not 6pm.
Those figures I have quoted off the BBC are all the overnight figures.
Regardless of BBC iPlayer, Sky +, Freeview +, etc... Doctor Who's ratings at the 6-6.45pm slot have been the worst series opener since it returned in 2005, fact!
What your saying takes into account all recording devices etc... I'm focusing on that particular time slot, which suggests that the BBC schedulers made a massive mistake and that Doctor Who should be on at 7pm not 6pm.
Also what 'time-shift'? there is no BBC one +1.
But you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that the whole audience for the rest of the shows on all channels that day were down. In relation to the actual audience watching the television on Saturday 23rd April, the viewing figures were as healthy as they have been since the show came back. The actual figures are down, but the comparative figures stay the same (the audience share and the AI, for instance).
And I think time-shift is those who record it on their receivers' hard drive to watch later (but not too sure about that...).
Comments
When i was growing up we would get together in the living room and watch some tat like family fortunes or generation game together before my parents went out for the evening. Brilliant
I cannot wait to sit with my eldest on the 23rd, at a time which suits BOTH of us. then after it finishes she has over an hour to wind down before bed time
But this is my point - column 2 is the 'final' viewing figure. It's the one everyone has referred to over the years - but now we have a new column with additional viewers who are likely to have already been counted. One person could end up being counted five or six times if that's how many times they've watched the episode (since no one has answered my BBC iPlayer question, I assume those figures are 'number of views' rather than 'number of viewers').
The chart does not include mulitple soap episodes across the whole week (unless that's a new chart as well). So Who should be in the top five.
The reason I am being more critical about the wealth of data being thrown all over the place is I worked for the BBC for many years and I know the difference between 'fan facts' and the industry standards.
Secondly, I worry that the decision to split the season was because SM wasn't able to maintain interest across a 13 episode run and not because of changing viewer habits.
Mossy, you make some really logical and good points and I'm not about to refute any of them.
But unfortunately, not every household has a PVR or iPlayer. I don't have iPlayer but I have a PVR. To many households, watching TV as it occurrs is still the way it's done. Even broadcasters realise this, otherwise why would they need schedulers to devise a good competitive schedule? This is evident on Christmas Day when by and large BBC1 becomes an unstoppable ratings smash because of the way things are scheduled and the things that are on. If the broadcasters really didn't mind about overnights, Doctor Who would be on at the same time as BGT because it didn't matter.
I am happy to take on board people's knowledge and viewpoints though and I will go along with "No need to worry, it'll do just fine" opinions.
But those that don't might have a VCR. And of those that don't, how many would be likely to be DW viewers who would also be deterred by the earlier start?
And of those who don't have a VCR, how many might not have Sky+ or the Virgin equivalent, V+? We could now be talking about a figure that is very low indeed (no PVR, no iPlayer, no VCR, no Sky+, no V+ but might be interested in DW).
But they are also realising that habits are now changing. Yes the bulk might still be live, but an increasing number of people now use the technology at their disposal to arrange their viewing around what suits them (and why not, that, in a sense, is what it is there for as Barry Norman would say).
I think that Christmas Day is still one of those special occasions with the family, in front of the TV. It is a day and time that is not comparable with any other day (apart from Boxing Day and maybe New Years Day). Yes, competitive schedules (or ones that provide an alternative) are still important, but with the increasing use of timeshift and the broadcast use of narrative repeats, this importance is lessening as time goes on.
Or perhaps, at the moment, they realise that they do need to please the numbers who DO watch live (number that might still be in the majority), even though those that don't are likely to be increasing. Bear in mind that we are not at the state where live viewing is dead in the water, just that it is not as important as it once was (and is likely to reduce in importance as time goes on). Maybe in a number of years time we will see DW scheduled against BGT, but I suspect that time will be some time away just yet.
Some newspapers recently reported that Doctor Who's viewing figures are going down "year on year". That is because the first three series were on at 7pm, the fourth was mixed 6.30-6.45, the fifth was 6.15-6.20 and the sixth is 6pm. No newspaper will ever qualify the fact that the figures are going down becasue the show is being gradually shunted into a less and less peak time slot.
This is very disappointing an I believe worthy of a compalint to see if we can get it moved.
Exactly!
No, I thought not.
Eh????
Now this is why 6pm doesn't work as a timeslot for Doctor Who on BBC one.
Also only one repeat of the programme this week at 7pm on BBC three.
Next episode (ep2) is 6pm
Ep3 is 6.15pm
Ep4 (Eurovision Day) will most definetely be at 6.00pm so that at 6.45pm SYTYCD can be on before the Lottery at 7.50pm. Eurovision HAS to start at 8pm! The only change that week will more than likely be the SYTYCD results moving to Sunday!
So, with just 3 episodes after that, there is not much point in moving the time. Especially if 6 million viewers tune in at that time. Merlin had slightly higher overnights shown later but the catch up figures weren't as high.
I'm guessing that helped earlier openers a bit.
What final ratings? Look at the dates :rolleyes:
The final ratings come out just over a week after the overnight ratings. Since we don't have the final ratings for TIA and since we know the time-shift is likely to be massive, it's utter nonsense to compare the overnight ratings for this episode to the final ratings of the other series episodes, which is what is recorded in the table up thread. The dates have nothing to do with it.
But it was the second most watched programme that night. Only beaten by BGT. On a sunny day... I think 6.5 million (sandwiched between two very low audience shows) was therefore very good.
And it was the highest audience gained for BBC over the weekend (not including the Bank Holidays). I don't see the fuss.
Episode 6 i believe clashes with the European cup final (likely to be Man U - Barcelona) So that's episode starting a 6pm.
The game kicks off at 7:15pm on ITV & Sky. I don't think the BBC will run it against it... There too scared now to run it against 'So you think you can sing' as it is now!;)
Its got around 34% of the viewing public I believe, which is fairly typical. So its not losing share. BGT was also massively down on numbers due to the sun.
I just hope the rest of the series doesn't lose out because people missed the start.
I hope not, too - I'm looking forward to watching it again just before the next episode though (at my sister's - she's got it saved on Sky+).
I think that with iPlayer and V+ and Sky+. though, people don't feel as tied down by programmes they want to watch. I quite like the direction TV watching habits are going (even though I don't necessarily like with the quality of the majority of the output!).
Those figures I have quoted off the BBC are all the overnight figures.
Regardless of BBC iPlayer, Sky +, Freeview +, etc... Doctor Who's ratings at the 6-6.45pm slot have been the worst series opener since it returned in 2005, fact!
What your saying takes into account all recording devices etc... I'm focusing on that particular time slot, which suggests that the BBC schedulers made a massive mistake and that Doctor Who should be on at 7pm not 6pm.
Also what 'time-shift'? there is no BBC one +1.
But you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that the whole audience for the rest of the shows on all channels that day were down. In relation to the actual audience watching the television on Saturday 23rd April, the viewing figures were as healthy as they have been since the show came back. The actual figures are down, but the comparative figures stay the same (the audience share and the AI, for instance).
And I think time-shift is those who record it on their receivers' hard drive to watch later (but not too sure about that...).
Yep, that's them. Making up an increasing number of viewers.
But not making them up as in "pretending they exist"
See, I didn't know that before, but I thought about it logically and came up with the correct definition.
Amazing!