Most atheists would like to believe in Heaven and life after death but disregarding science when it's done so much for you and me over the last few centuries isn't easy.
I wouldn't and as I'm averse to believing things without evidence do you have any that most atheists would?
/snip/
I do, I think all religious people that are serious about their beliefs would adhere to parts such as punishment, heaven, hell etc.. or equivalents for their religion.
I don't necessarily think its a lack of courage stopping people conveying such opinion though, maybe some are more tactful and mindful of what others would think when presented with such beliefs.
When I watched her, it was kind of chilling. The condemnation to eternal damnation comes not with righteous anger but with a kindly smile and an offer of a free cupcake.
And I think as theists we have to own such people - it is a problem.
Personally, I'm on the verge of joining The People's Front of Judea but I may join the The Judean People's Front - it just depends on how much I'm able to make it up as I go along.
I knew my witnessing Trotsky earlier would win recruits. You don't even need a womb!
The bad news is that we are all sinners deserving of hell. The good news is that salvation is available to anyone who will accept it.
.
If we were created in sinlessness we must currently be mistaken about what we are. Surely it then follows that we are mistaken when we think we have sinned. "Judge not that ye be not judged". We should not judge others if we do not want to be judged by others since everyone will be judged by God. God will be happy to get us back (re parable of the prodigal son) and I suspect not even recognise the mistaken concept of sin - so all's well and good. Therefore - Be not in sin... FTW.
So; God creates the universe and billions of years later, after the dinosaurs and meteors smash it up a bit - we evolve and eventually are blessed with a visit from his only son (because He loves us so much). Lucky us huh?
Now we are to believe we are such horrible sinful things that there is no place for the likes of us, least we repent and claim salvation through the horrible death and resurrection of our given lord.
If He is not a wasteful god; every star in every galaxy would have planets capable of supporting worshippers, and I bet He tells that to all of them. :rolleyes:
We'll have hope and peace when supporters of the two main Middle Eastern cults, Islam and Christianity, stop trying to spread their version of hope and peace upon the world.
If they turn to God, they will be forgiven. According to what I've read of Christianity. Or is that not correct?
The kingdom of God, is not something people will be able to see and point to. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:21)
If the kingdom of god is within rather than without then sin, as conceived within ourselves and others, is just a means of procrastination for the "undeserving". Likewise for those with "mountains of Karma" to shovel. Sin is a pathetic, whiny, selfish, hurtful and unnecessary concept. Belief in sin is strong in those heavily engaged in it. If we don't see it in others we won't see it in ourselves. Hence the value of forgiveness.
The kingdom of God, is not something people will be able to see and point to. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:21)
If we were created in sinlessness we must currently be mistaken about what we are. Surely it then follows that we are mistaken when we think we have sinned. "Judge not that ye be not judged". We should not judge others if we do not want to be judged by others since everyone will be judged by God. God will be happy to get us back (re parable of the prodigal son) and I suspect not even recognise the mistaken concept of sin - so all's well and good. Therefore - Be not in sin... FTW.
Care to share you're views on each of these topics. I'll take it as a given that you accept that you are not Christ.
Thats very civil of you, at least you haven't called me abhorrent this time.
I have put up several links in the past explaining that hell is a much misunderstood and mistranslated word. It appeals to literalists of any persuasion. However, to understand Salvation maybe we should go back to the origins;-
Jewish concept of "salvation" a,. predominantly physical deliverance - national, individual. b. usually projected such in the future c,. looked forward to Messianic deliverance and salvation.
The Jewish concept of Messiah in Biblical times was that of a great warrior arriving galloping in on a massive charger surrounded by a ferocious army. And,not a humble carpenter as depicted in the:-.
Salvation from the New Testament:-
Greek words sozo, soteria soter, soterion, soterios, diasozo
Range of meaning in Greek - physical safety, cure or healing from illness, rescue, deliverance, liberation, protection, keep alive, keep in good health, preserve well-being, benefit, develop wholeness or peace, make secure, bring victory.
So where does the expression "saved" come from or originate from? And, what is a person being "saved" from? It is not an expression used often by the mainstream churches. It is used by literalists or evangelicals. Who teaches them this? It never was a Catholic doctrine but Protestant. Even then many an Evangelical today, would be mortified that they have intimated that their non-believing friends might be condemned to "hell" as they have no concept of it. They don't follow the old doctrines.
If a person states that "we are all sinners" then condemns another to "hell" for not repenting they are not seeing the contradiction in their own statement. It is very sad. They obviously do not understand basic Biblical principles. Equally, as I pointed out in a previous post they are guilty of judging others. The rules are clear in the Bible do not preach, teach or evangelise if you don't know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, the Op got rather carried away with too many mixed messages in my opinion.
I am a Universalist btw. I am not into the message of sin and salvation as preached by evangelicals. I do believe with my heart and soul that God knows true repentance and knows our hearts and journey. Why we believe and why we do not.
I may revisit this thread occasionally, but I know most of the posts will attack this message. So there’s not much point in dealing with the deluge of negativity.
Says people are living empty, purposeless lives and deserve to be tortured.
OP I am glad that you have found contentment in your life, but I think it is important that you accept and acknowledge that people can find equal contentment and fulfilment while not believing in God or an afterlife. Your spiritual experience is obviously important to you, but you should resist assuming that it is relevant to anyone else's way of experiencing the world.
Comments
I wouldn't and as I'm averse to believing things without evidence do you have any that most atheists would?
Well, in general I am an apologist for the religious aspiration - but I do know what you mean.
There was a young woman on The Big Question just a few weeks ago that highlighted the issue for me.
You can see her here 03:50 in for about a minute and a half.
When I watched her, it was kind of chilling. The condemnation to eternal damnation comes not with righteous anger but with a kindly smile and an offer of a free cupcake.
And I think as theists we have to own such people - it is a problem.
I knew my witnessing Trotsky earlier would win recruits.
If we were created in sinlessness we must currently be mistaken about what we are. Surely it then follows that we are mistaken when we think we have sinned. "Judge not that ye be not judged". We should not judge others if we do not want to be judged by others since everyone will be judged by God. God will be happy to get us back (re parable of the prodigal son) and I suspect not even recognise the mistaken concept of sin - so all's well and good. Therefore - Be not in sin... FTW.
Care to share you're views on each of these topics. I'll take it as a given that you accept that you are not Christ.
Now we are to believe we are such horrible sinful things that there is no place for the likes of us, least we repent and claim salvation through the horrible death and resurrection of our given lord.
If He is not a wasteful god; every star in every galaxy would have planets capable of supporting worshippers, and I bet He tells that to all of them. :rolleyes:
You guessed it , i'm an athiest.
Maybe not, but it is a realistic one...
The kingdom of God, is not something people will be able to see and point to. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:21)
If the kingdom of god is within rather than without then sin, as conceived within ourselves and others, is just a means of procrastination for the "undeserving". Likewise for those with "mountains of Karma" to shovel. Sin is a pathetic, whiny, selfish, hurtful and unnecessary concept. Belief in sin is strong in those heavily engaged in it. If we don't see it in others we won't see it in ourselves. Hence the value of forgiveness.
You can't see it? Sounds very convienient to me.
I don't think that's ever been said.
Well, I never:)
Thats very civil of you, at least you haven't called me abhorrent this time.
I have put up several links in the past explaining that hell is a much misunderstood and mistranslated word. It appeals to literalists of any persuasion. However, to understand Salvation maybe we should go back to the origins;-
Jewish concept of "salvation" a,. predominantly physical deliverance - national, individual. b. usually projected such in the future c,. looked forward to Messianic deliverance and salvation.
The Jewish concept of Messiah in Biblical times was that of a great warrior arriving galloping in on a massive charger surrounded by a ferocious army. And,not a humble carpenter as depicted in the:-.
Salvation from the New Testament:-
Greek words sozo, soteria soter, soterion, soterios, diasozo
Range of meaning in Greek - physical safety, cure or healing from illness, rescue, deliverance, liberation, protection, keep alive, keep in good health, preserve well-being, benefit, develop wholeness or peace, make secure, bring victory.
So where does the expression "saved" come from or originate from? And, what is a person being "saved" from? It is not an expression used often by the mainstream churches. It is used by literalists or evangelicals. Who teaches them this? It never was a Catholic doctrine but Protestant. Even then many an Evangelical today, would be mortified that they have intimated that their non-believing friends might be condemned to "hell" as they have no concept of it. They don't follow the old doctrines.
If a person states that "we are all sinners" then condemns another to "hell" for not repenting they are not seeing the contradiction in their own statement. It is very sad. They obviously do not understand basic Biblical principles. Equally, as I pointed out in a previous post they are guilty of judging others. The rules are clear in the Bible do not preach, teach or evangelise if you don't know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, the Op got rather carried away with too many mixed messages in my opinion.
I am a Universalist btw. I am not into the message of sin and salvation as preached by evangelicals. I do believe with my heart and soul that God knows true repentance and knows our hearts and journey. Why we believe and why we do not.
Complains about 'negativity'.
- Christian troll logic courtesy of Leanna.
Live long and prosper;)