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Old 05-04-2013, 14:27
TXF0429
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Still not seeing it with Tim. You are right he wins in episode 11, but he wins because Paul falls out of the race by trying a takeover, and there's a meeting of minds of London working class boys between Tim, Lord Sugar and Paul Kemsley that ends with James going inspite of his better record. We have talk of doubts about his motivation, but zero evidence to support that and Claude and Nick not agreeing. Tim then only has to beat Saira - who has been too abrasive throughout, and compunds that in the final with Paul - after she's silly enough to pick him. Tim's success in the final is to pick the right team, and have Ben and Miriam doing the key work for him. He picks the right sort of imaginative idea, but his particular idea of fashion, and idea of charging high prices for the tickets, falls apart . He ends up inviting students for very little money, and producing no return - which undermines completely the idea he throws together for Sir Alan of making the fashion show into a paying continuing concern. Saira at least makes some money .James,and Miriam and even Ben all look better to me than either finalist - in the final.
I was more referring to Tim's interview performance. One of the best along for me with Kristina's in S3 and even, arguably Michelle in S2.
Tim's greatest success was his ability to get on with anyone. Yes, he had the sense to pick less confrontational team in the final and, Yes, he does defer much of the work to Miriam and Ben, but they are also extremely motivated for him to win. (Look at Ben's interview in the final). Tim was good at leadership, or at least better than Saira and this was what won in the end as there was virtually no drama in the final, whilst Saira struggled to control a more volatile team, most of the friction coming from Paul. I think people would want to work for Tim. Would they want to work for Saira? Or Paul?
However, the real reason why I think Tim won in S1 was because simply he was the nicest guy and it was a nice narrative to end the opening season when producers were unsure how it would be recieved. Ultimately, I don't think Tim should have won on competence but that wasn't the only thing in the equation.

With hindsight, its all got a lot of deja vue (or deja vue from later?) about it. James and Paul fall on their basic CVs, and why they would want to work now for anyone else. Sir Alan could have saved a lot of time just not including them if that was his criteria.That argument turns up again in later series - though its reversed for Yasmina. Paul survives long enough to have a trial run of Stuart Baggs versus Liz, with Miriam, and sets the stage for all the similar characters who fail at the interview stage - or the week before. Saira, on re-view, looks even more of an early model for Ruth, Claire, Debra and those that follow them.
James provides an interesting case study. Probably the best performer on the tasks, Sir Alan fires him on a hunch that he wants a TV career. This hunch is largely proven correct as James did carve out a TV niche for himself. Sir Alan talks about this in his autobiography and it was an interesting part to read.
I think that you're spot on with regards to how the candidates fitted into certain roles which worked in future series:
Saira = Ruth, Kristina, Claire, Debra (Ballsy Businesswoman, often in 2nd place)
Paul = Paul Tulip, Syed, Tre, Baggs (Brash salesman)
James = Ansell, Lohit, Lucinda, James McQuillan (Too nice Interview Firing)

Tim in episode 11 also gets almost exactly the same words from Sir Alan, about his past and life journey, that Michelle gets in her final. Their wins, seen together, look very similar. One difference is that in series two, Michelle was getting more praise towards the end about her task performances - although the viewer never gets to see what she is up to in some tasks where her team beats Ruth's - all we know is that someone on her team in some tasks must have been doing comparably well to Ruth. In series one, I don't see any similar argument that Tim is doing better than he is shown. In series 2 I think that whats wrong with Paul or Ansell or Tuan is pretty obvious, and both Mickelle and Ruth stand out more as the finalists - in series 1, I think there are two or three stronger candidates than the finalists - and still around late enough to have made the final themselves.
That's a very interesting point that I hadn't considered. In S2, I do agree to a certain extent. Paul, in particular, frequently won tasks for his teams but also had a nasty streak that was all too obvious. I'm still not sure about Michelle as a finalist. Its very difficult for me to judge as I've only watched the series properly when I know that Michelle wins in the end. All I will say is that her edit takes an absolute battering during her first PMship. Watching it for the first time, I thought she was going to get fired for it, but she narrowly escapes.
As for Series 1, I think that Ben's contributions are played down somewhat in light of his firing in Week 8. Miriam's are less so, so that her firing can be a shock, but she still could have got fired in a few tasks, in particular Week 8.

Off to find series 3........
Oh, have fun! Its often regarded as one of the best.
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Old 05-04-2013, 18:19
george.millman
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That's a very interesting point that I hadn't considered. In S2, I do agree to a certain extent. Paul, in particular, frequently won tasks for his teams but also had a nasty streak that was all too obvious. I'm still not sure about Michelle as a finalist. Its very difficult for me to judge as I've only watched the series properly when I know that Michelle wins in the end. All I will say is that her edit takes an absolute battering during her first PMship. Watching it for the first time, I thought she was going to get fired for it, but she narrowly escapes.
As for Series 1, I think that Ben's contributions are played down somewhat in light of his firing in Week 8. Miriam's are less so, so that her firing can be a shock, but she still could have got fired in a few tasks, in particular Week 8.
The thing that really annoyed me about Michelle (other than the Topshop episode) was the end of Episode 6, when they were on the treat and it appeared that she'd been saying horrible things about Sharon behind her back. Maybe it was just the editing, but from what we saw, I thought she was completely out of order and that that was actually tantamount to bullying. It made a bit of a difference to me that I actually really liked Sharon - she wasn't brilliant, but I think she drew the short straw a bit when it came to being PM. She put herself forward when they didn't know what the task was, and it turned out to be something completely unsuited to her - but she still did the best that she could, utilised the skills of her (very unwilling) team and they won that task. I think if Sharon had been PM on either the advertising task or the Topshop task, things could have been very different for her. We saw that the Topshop people thought that she was fantastic. I felt that Michelle (who had previously appeared to be quite friendly with Sharon) had realised that she wasn't liked and was using that to her advantage, which really annoyed me actually.

I don't think Ben could ever have won. The only task that you can actually say he did well on was the first time that he was PM on the celebrity auction task. He was in the final boardroom in Week 3, and in Week 4 if Adele hadn't walked it probably would have been either him or Sebastian with Tim and Adele in the final three, as they both were criticised on that task. He was better than Raj and Sebastian, but he had it coming. In the case of Miriam, I think Week 8 was the only task in which she could justifiably have been fired, as she did make a mistake in that task and admitted it. It shocks me how close she came to going in Week 2 as Lindsay completely stitched her up, but I guess at that point Sir Alan hadn't really had a chance to see how good she was.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:52
chili_kitten
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Old 12-05-2013, 16:55
girlni
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Hiya could someone link me to any full series? i only got in to the apprentice about four series ago and i always hear good reports about the older ones!
even through pm would be great thanks!!
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