Thousands of jobs to go at jobcentres

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  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    LostFool wrote: »
    The only people who rely on these Job Centres are the people who work there.

    How i read the story, is that this is going to hit the private sector providers not DWP staff, as it looks like alot of the work is coming back in house, Documents seen by the Guardian reveal that seven of the 15 work programme prime contractors, including big private sector names such as Serco and Maximus, have not made it on to the initial shortlist for the new scheme..
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    Sounds like DWP admits work programme didn't go very well, cost lots and is being restructured. Most of the fallout appears to be in those much criticised private contractors.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    Sounds like DWP admits work programme didn't go very well, cost lots and is being restructured. Most of the fallout appears to be in those much criticised private contractors.

    Well looking at these figures from 2015, for people in the WRAG group its a very expensive failer. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiAiLGp08bRAhVDKMAKHZh0AlUQFggmMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welfareweekly.com%2Fwork-programme-waste-time-long-term-sickness-benefit-claimants%2F&usg=AFQjCNGqT3VTxLQbqzUvY8wyToQ-sL5PgQ
  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,908
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    I've never been in a Job centre so the only reference I have is Pauline from League of Gentlemen, and 'The Job Lot' with Russell Tovey!
  • CappySpectrumCappySpectrum Posts: 2,907
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    Welsh-lad wrote: »
    I've never been in a Job centre so the only reference I have is Pauline from League of Gentlemen, and 'The Job Lot' with Russell Tovey!

    I remember being on it once, think it was a short time in 2002 or 2003. They wanted to send me on some course how to wash my face, brush my teeth and how to do a CV. I then saw the kind (they looked very smelly in adidas gear) that you'd be sent in a van with these people so I signed off and never looked back.
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    Sounds like DWP admits work programme didn't go very well, cost lots and is being restructured. Most of the fallout appears to be in those much criticised private contractors.

    That's a start. I've never understood why 'Job Centres' haven't been sued for false advertising as they seem to do little to actually find people work. How hard could it be for employers to notify a real Job Centre of all vacancies, and staff to match people to vacancy. If candidates are unsuccessful, then look at retraining/reskilling.

    It would upset recruitment agencies, but given the fees they charge could save employers money. And a notification system would also allow government to look at employment trends, skill gaps etc.
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,623
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    That's a start. I've never understood why 'Job Centres' haven't been sued for false advertising as they seem to do little to actually find people work. How hard could it be for employers to notify a real Job Centre of all vacancies, and staff to match people to vacancy. If candidates are unsuccessful, then look at retraining/reskilling..

    Employers don't use Job Centres for "real jobs" as they know that they are absolutely useless at finding them decent candidates especially for professional or graduate positions. The jobs market has changed massively in the past 10-20 years but the "Labour Exchange" is still stuck in the last century. These days it is a lot more effective to hire through social media channels than on a piece of card on a board down the Job Centre.

    Most hiring managers I know wouldn't go near JobCentrePlus (or whatever they are called) as those who do just find themselves having to sort through a load of totally unsuitable people who are just applying for the job to meet their weekly quota.
  • CappySpectrumCappySpectrum Posts: 2,907
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    LostFool wrote: »
    Employers don't use Job Centres for "real jobs" as they know that they are absolutely useless at finding them decent candidates especially for professional or graduate positions. The jobs market has changed massively in the past 10-20 years but the "Labour Exchange" is still stuck in the last century. These days it is a lot more effective to hire through social media channels than on a piece of card on a board down the Job Centre.

    Most hiring managers I know wouldn't go near JobCentrePlus (or whatever they are called) as those who do just find themselves having to sort through a load of totally unsuitable people who are just applying for the job to meet their weekly quota.

    I've noticed how easy it is to get hired once they see the skill you've got. I always used to assume and feared all these stories that you need a ton of qualifications, diplomas and whatnot. Yet I was always shocked how quickly they want you once they've seen your work.

    I remember a few game companies even flew me down to meet them and work for them for a short while. Didn't expect that at all.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    LostFool wrote: »
    Employers don't use Job Centres for "real jobs" as they know that they are absolutely useless at finding them decent candidates especially for professional or graduate positions. The jobs market has changed massively in the past 10-20 years but the "Labour Exchange" is still stuck in the last century. These days it is a lot more effective to hire through social media channels than on a piece of card on a board down the Job Centre.

    Most hiring managers I know wouldn't go near JobCentrePlus (or whatever they are called) as those who do just find themselves having to sort through a load of totally unsuitable people who are just applying for the job to meet their weekly quota.

    I think people need to read what is says, it saying the private sector brought to do this work have been failing. NOT DWP staff . Companies like Serco, Capita, G4S. These are just some of the companies that have been running these contracts.
  • nomad2kingnomad2king Posts: 8,415
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    The idea behind these schemes is NOT to find employment, but to try and make unemployable people more employable. Using a measure of people found employment is meaningless.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    nomad2king wrote: »
    The idea behind these schemes is NOT to find employment, but to try and make unemployable people more employable. Using a measure of people found employment is meaningless.

    But it does not work, as part of the idea is to help people back into work and you have to have some sort of measure to see how successful what you are doing is. But the funny thing is the number of companies that signed up and got free labour from these programmes, but when it came to employing and paying people a wage they did not want these people. Also how does a private company help the long term sick back into work, which has proved a complete failer by the number of people got work from taking part. The WRAG group figures show this
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,623
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    tim59 wrote: »
    I think people need to read what is says, it saying the private sector brought to do this work have been failing. NOT DWP staff . Companies like Serco, Capita, G4S. These are just some of the companies that have been running these contracts.

    I'm not defending these service companies but the people running the DWP (and other government departments) need to take some responsibility for the failure of these contracts. They were the ones who negotiated the contracts, set the targets and monitored their operation on behalf of the taxpayer.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    LostFool wrote: »
    I'm not defending these service companies but the people running the DWP (and other government departments) need to take some responsibility for the failure of these contracts. They were the ones who negotiated the contracts, set the targets and monitored their operation on behalf of the taxpayer.

    You mean these people doing what they were told by government ministers. The buck stops at the top. Post 29
  • MorlockMorlock Posts: 3,211
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    LostFool wrote: »
    Employers don't use Job Centres for "real jobs" as they know that they are absolutely useless at finding them decent candidates especially for professional or graduate positions. The jobs market has changed massively in the past 10-20 years but the "Labour Exchange" is still stuck in the last century. These days it is a lot more effective to hire through social media channels than on a piece of card on a board down the Job Centre.

    It just goes to show how little you know, and how many presumptions you are making. There haven't been any cards in Jobcentres for at least ten years.
  • MorlockMorlock Posts: 3,211
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    nomad2king wrote: »
    The idea behind these schemes is NOT to find employment, but to try and make unemployable people more employable. Using a measure of people found employment is meaningless.

    The idea is to give the DWP more opportunities to sanction people by implementing meaningless hoop jumping.
  • FusionFuryFusionFury Posts: 14,121
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    Good what do they do its all online nowadays
  • RichievillaRichievilla Posts: 6,179
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    I can never take pleasure from anybody losing their job, but work programme providers offered a pretty mediocre service in what they were supposed to do..ie job outcomes. They were particularly woeful with respect to sick and disabled IB/ESA claimants. Hopefully whatever comes next provides a much better use of taxpayers' money.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    I can never take pleasure from anybody losing their job, but work programme providers offered a pretty mediocre service in what they were supposed to do..ie job outcomes. They were particularly woeful with respect to sick and disabled IB/ESA claimants. Hopefully whatever comes next provides a much better use of taxpayers' money.

    Problem is how do you change employers attitude to employing the long term sick and disabled.
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,623
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    Morlock wrote: »
    It just goes to show how little you know, and how many presumptions you are making. There haven't been any cards in Jobcentres for at least ten years.

    Well, it must be 15 years since I have been in one. As as said earlier I don't even know where my local one is.

    However, I do know about recruitment and none of the businesses I have been involved with in the last few years have ever used the Job Centre and friends who are between jobs never go near one either.
  • RichievillaRichievilla Posts: 6,179
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    tim59 wrote: »
    Problem is how do you change employers attitude to employing the long term sick and disabled.

    Sadly, probably by offering "incentives" (ie bribes) plus a large expansion of schemes such as Access to Work, which is very unlikely to happen. The government will not go for the "stick" approach with employers, imo, as that is reserved for JSA/ESA claimants.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    LostFool wrote: »
    Well, it must be 15 years since I have been in one. As as said earlier I don't even know where my local one is.

    However, I do know about recruitment and none of the businesses I have been involved with in the last few years have ever used the Job Centre and friends who are between jobs never go near one either.

    But people dont go to job centers to look for jobs that is done is done on a government website. Universal job match it even won an award. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiUxIqOn8fRAhWGLMAKHUOGBa8QFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F11%2F19%2Funiversal-jobmatch-wins-worst-website-award%2F&usg=AFQjCNHDwGs4n-4W6pdf0M5hJDHsnuS1Nw
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    Sadly, probably by offering "incentives" (ie bribes) plus a large expansion of schemes such as Access to Work, which is very unlikely to happen. The government will not go for the "stick" approach with employers, imo, as that is reserved for JSA/ESA claimants.

    I agree with every you have said here.
  • briggsy1briggsy1 Posts: 10,075
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    I would always favour a carrot over a stick approach wrt employers AND workers. Anything else is counter productive in the long time and doesn't work.
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