Options

Panicking PM threatens to cut GPs' wages

clinchclinch Posts: 11,574
Forum Member
✭✭
After her claim that there was no problem in the NHS didn't wash, she now seems to say there is a problem but reckons it's the fault of GPs.

Now, as far as I'm aware, we have a shortage of GPs because doctors don't want to do it. I'm not sure how this threat from May will make things better.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-seven-day-week-gp-surgeries-jeremy-hunt-nhs-hospitals-accident-and-emergency-a7526951.html
«134567

Comments

  • Options
    CRMCRM Posts: 11,881
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    She truly is the most inept PM ever, as well as being a complete idiot. Chastising already overworked GPs is hardly going to help matters.
  • Options
    AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭✭
    clinch wrote: »
    After her claim that there was no problem in the NHS didn't wash, she now seems to say there is a problem but reckons it's the fault of GPs.

    Now, as far as I'm aware, we have a shortage of GPs because doctors don't want to do it. I'm not sure how this threat from May will make things better.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-seven-day-week-gp-surgeries-jeremy-hunt-nhs-hospitals-accident-and-emergency-a7526951.html

    G.P.s do not get wages.

    As part of the Urgent Prescription for general practice, GPC asked for fair and sustainable funding and resources to reach a minimum of 11% of NHS spend.

    The GP Forward View has gone some way in addressing this ask through the announced increase in the level of investment in primary care, and specifically to general practice.

    Investment to general practice services will rise by a recurrent £2.4bn by 2020/21, which will increase the proportion of investment going into general practice to over 10% of the NHS England budget.

    NHS England have indicated the funds will be distributed equally up to 2020/21. GPC will be challenging this modelling as it seeks to secure front-loading of the funding to better deal with the current crisis in general practice.


    G.P.s receive a funding stream and have contractual obligations in order to receive funding. You can read more about it here.

    https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/contracts/general-practice-funding/funding-and-support-for-general-practice
  • Options
    JasonJason Posts: 76,557
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Typical Tory approach - let's not bother figuring out a sensible, workable solution that keeps everyone happy and willing to go that extra mile, let's just threaten them with consequences unless they comply.
  • Options
    i4ui4u Posts: 55,001
    Forum Member
    I don't know the ins & outs of the situation but it can be weeks before being able to see a local doctor...I don't see how extending GP hours will change that?

    From the new TV series about a NHS hospital the main issue appears to be a shortage or bed blocking caused by not being able to move or discharge patients.

    A&E may well be seeing more patients who just have a cold but those patients aren't going to be admitted to hospital and take up a bed.

    Is the problem a lack of GPs rather than the number of hours worked?
  • Options
    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    If what I read this morning is true, there seem to be a lot of GP surgeries receiving the extended hours payment, and then closing during the fore times.

    That seems a little odd.
  • Options
    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Typical Tory approach - let's not bother figuring out a sensible, workable solution that keeps everyone happy and willing to go that extra mile, let's just threaten them with consequences unless they comply.

    The labour approach (to everything) appears to be to throw more tax payers money at it.

    I wonder who has the sensible, workable solution.
  • Options
    GlastonGlaston Posts: 1,926
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    How are GP's overworked?
    Most seem to work part time.
    My surgery half the docs only do at most 3 days a week

    Back in the day you used to get home visits and weekend openings
  • Options
    dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
    Forum Member
    kidspud wrote: »
    The labour approach (to everything) appears to be to throw more tax payers money at it.

    I wonder who has the sensible, workable solution.

    Labour I would suggest, seeing as they appeared to have emergency treatment under some control in comparison to the burgeoning disaster we see unfolding in front of us.

    GPs worked the same hours then as they do now so it must be entirely false to lack the blame at their feet.

    The problem with the Tories is they refuse to acknowledge their incompatance and will point fingers a everyone else. They will never look at themselves in the mirror.
  • Options
    CRMCRM Posts: 11,881
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    kidspud wrote: »
    The labour approach (to everything) appears to be to throw more tax payers money at it.

    I wonder who has the sensible, workable solution.
    Not the morally bankrupt Tories.
  • Options
    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    CRM wrote: »
    Not the morally bankrupt Tories.

    So you've no answer then.
  • Options
    AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭✭
    kidspud wrote: »
    If what I read this morning is true, there seem to be a lot of GP surgeries receiving the extended hours payment, and then closing during the fore times.

    That seems a little odd.

    Exactly, the funding stream to General Practices has contractual obligations.
  • Options
    AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭✭
    dosanjh1 wrote: »
    Labour I would suggest, seeing as they appeared to have emergency treatment under some control in comparison to the burgeoning disaster we see unfolding in front of us.

    GPs worked the same hours then as they do now so it must be entirely false to lack the blame at their feet.

    The problem with the Tories is they refuse to acknowledge their incompatance and will point fingers a everyone else. They will never look at themselves in the mirror.

    Perhaps you should do a bit more looking?

    In 2004 Labour introduced the existing General Practice scheme.

    GPs were so stunned by the terms offered to them when negotiating their new contract that they thought it was a "bit of a laugh", a doctor has said.

    Dr Simon Fradd, who was one of British Medical Association's GP negotiators, said they were shocked by the approach taken by the government.

    They could not believe it when GPs were given the chance not to do evening and weekend work for a 6% pay cut, he said.

    Since the deal started in 2004, average GP pay has topped the £100,000 barrier.

    While doctors now make less in basic pay - about £55,000 on average - they have been able to top-up their earnings by hitting targets under a performance-related bonus scheme.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6314301.stm
  • Options
    MarellaKMarellaK Posts: 5,783
    Forum Member
    kidspud wrote: »
    The labour approach (to everything) appears to be to throw more tax payers money at it.

    I wonder who has the sensible, workable solution.

    Well, that's quite obvious. Under Labour, the greater investment resulted in a better service overall. We used to prepare for winter and open extra beds and sometimes whole wards. I work as a senior NHS nurse with previous bed management experience.

    Now, we seem to be closing wards. We've closed several A&Es under this government, many in London, with more planned to close in the next few years - is it any wonder that the remaining A&Es are so much busier?
  • Options
    CRMCRM Posts: 11,881
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    kidspud wrote: »
    So you've no answer then.
    Essentially bullying GPs is hardly the way forward,is it?

    Most GPs work long hours. The government seem to love to put out this idea of every GP owing their own practice. The reality is far from that.

    The Tory party has always been an uncaring party, but they are truly exceeding themselves right now.

    Of course the NHS needs more funding. There is a serious lack of it in primary health care. There are NHS workers leaving in droves.

    To endorse the Tory party's approach to health only goes to mirror their lack of empathy.
  • Options
    MarellaKMarellaK Posts: 5,783
    Forum Member
    Glaston wrote: »
    How are GP's overworked?
    Most seem to work part time.
    My surgery half the docs only do at most 3 days a week

    Back in the day you used to get home visits and weekend openings

    Many GPs work part time because these are often female GPs with children, or older GPs near retirement age. They work part time so get paid for their part time hours. We either accept that many GPs will be part time or we have even fewer GPs in practice. It's not an attractive job despite the relatively high salary.

    Money is not such an incentive when the pressure of work is so great.
  • Options
    NilSatisOptimumNilSatisOptimum Posts: 2,377
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    GPs are the archetype private contractor within the NHS. This is the future for health care, target driven bonuses etc..
  • Options
    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    The single biggest disaster to happen to the NHS in recent times was the labour PFI policy.

    Why would you want the party who laid the foundation of this mess to have anything to do with it now.
  • Options
    NilSatisOptimumNilSatisOptimum Posts: 2,377
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    kidspud wrote: »
    The labour approach (to everything) appears to be to throw more tax payers money at it.

    I wonder who has the sensible, workable solution.

    Of course your happy not to use my tax paid health care, for yourself or loved ones when in need? Just don't be telling any insurance that covers your well-being, you'll be in for a nasty shock.

    Maybe Pakistan is good place to live for Low Tax brigade and dodgers, many places their have little or no functional state, so state contributions are low, you can hire all sorts to have your very own state, it's amazing why more don't do it..;-)
  • Options
    MarellaKMarellaK Posts: 5,783
    Forum Member
    kidspud wrote: »
    The single biggest disaster to happen to the NHS in recent times was the labour PFI policy.

    Why would you want the party who laid the foundation of this mess to have anything to do with it now.

    Because they're better than the Tories with the NHS. There is absolutely no question about that. I have worked in the NHS since the 1980s, under Tory and Labour governments. The NHS was better funded under Labour and there were better contingency winter plans, with provisions made for extra beds and staffing.

    Trying to be more ''efficient'' and do more work with less resources is frankly not possible and results in poor, undignified standards of care.
  • Options
    NilSatisOptimumNilSatisOptimum Posts: 2,377
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    kidspud wrote: »
    The single biggest disaster to happen to the NHS in recent times was the labour PFI policy.

    Why would you want the party who laid the foundation of this mess to have anything to do with it now.
    :D:D

    Utter nonsensical lying, PFI was very much a Conservative Government Policy introduction in 1992. That is fact.
  • Options
    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    There isn't anything wrong with the idea of surgeries being open longer but the obvious issue is do surgeries have the staff to support it and is there a better way of reducing the number of patients going to A&E out of surgery hours who don't really need to.
  • Options
    dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
    Forum Member
    Annsyre wrote: »
    Perhaps you should do a bit more looking?


    While doctors now make less in basic pay - about £55,000 on average - they have been able to top-up their earnings by hitting targets under a performance-related bonus scheme. [/I]

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6314301.stm

    Thanks for looking on my behalf.

    It would appear then that performance related bonuses are not working - it is May after all who's laid the blame for the humanitarian crisis at the feet of GPs.

    Under Labour, it obviously wasn't such an issue - as you can see from this lovely graph

    http://www.qualitywatch.org.uk/indicator/ae-waiting-times#
  • Options
    CRMCRM Posts: 11,881
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    :D:D

    Utter nonsensical lying, PFI was very much a Conservative Government Policy introduction in 1992. That is fact.
    I don't think kidspud does facts. They're as irrelevant as experts.
  • Options
    glasshalffullglasshalffull Posts: 22,291
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    jmclaugh wrote: »
    There isn't anything wrong with the idea of surgeries being open longer but the obvious issue is do surgeries have the staff to support it.


    Our GPs tried this years ago...when Hunt was still an itch in his father's pants and when GPs were coming on stream faster than they were quitting and dying off...and they stopped it because the take up of appointments on Saturday morning and after 7pm was so poor.

    Indeed, the senior partner (who is as much a friend as a doctor these days) actually told me they had people who initially absolutely needed "to see a doctor" and couldn't possibly "take any time off work" to come during regular hours, suddenly concluded maybe their need wasn't so urgent when offered appointments that "clashed with Eastenders on the telly" or interfered with "always going to Tesco Saturday morning".

    And those were just two of the reasons why people turned down appointments that they recorded at the time.

    As to time wasters at A & E...charge them for "wasting NHS time" like the cops can ;-)
  • Options
    CroctacusCroctacus Posts: 18,296
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    The lack of GPs is the problem. In my area we've had 4 GP surgeries close through retirement in the last 2 years. None of them have been replaced which means all their displaced patients have had to register with other local sugeries. This has lead to a longer wait for appointments for everyone.

    Nothing but recruiting more GPs will cure this.
Sign In or Register to comment.