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Is it possible to have a NATO type alliance without the USA to still protect the rest

Net NutNet Nut Posts: 10,286
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in Politics #1
Is it possible to have a NATO type alliance without the USA to still protect the rest of the world's democracies?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/16/germany-hits-donald-trump-labels-nato-obsolete-threatens-car/

" Germany hits out at Donald Trump after he labels Nato obsolete."

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    PalafrugelPalafrugel Posts: 2,219
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    #2
    Protect who exactly? Do you think Putin wants to conquer the UK? Do you think Putin is a threat to any Western European nation? Putin for me is a threat to any nation that has a Russian speaking region and that has pro-Russian sentiment. Those nations that fall into that category can fund their own NATO.. when the current one collapses. I don't think it is in the UK interests - or Spain/France/Italy etc to spend billions of tax payer's money on arming the Estonian border.
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    MandarkMandark Posts: 47,964
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    #3
    Sounds like an EU army to me!! :D
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    AneechikAneechik Posts: 20,208
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    #4
    Yes it is, but they'd actually have to pay for it, which is the contentious issue.
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    Mark39LondonMark39London Posts: 3,977
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    #5
    Aneechik wrote: »
    Yes it is, but they'd actually have to pay for it, which is the contentious issue.

    This has been a problem for the USA for many years now. They have an issue with other members not spending the required military spending percentage by GDP (I think about only half achieve this).

    This means that the US contributes more than double that of of the other countries combined.

    Given this spending issue alone, any EU combined military would be toothless without US support.
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    i4ui4u Posts: 55,001
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    #6
    Palafrugel wrote: »
    Protect who exactly? Do you think Putin wants to conquer the UK? Do you think Putin is a threat to any Western European nation? Putin for me is a threat to any nation that has a Russian speaking region and that has pro-Russian sentiment. Those nations that fall into that category can fund their own NATO.. when the current one collapses. I don't think it is in the UK interests - or Spain/France/Italy etc to spend billions of tax payer's money on arming the Estonian border.

    There are a lot of Russian speakers around Chelsea, but its ok FIFA have threatened Putin with a fine if he invades the pitch.
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    ResonanceResonance Posts: 16,644
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    #7
    Would NATO even do anything if Russia did invade a country in Eastern Europe? Beyond huffing and puffing I mean. What could NATO actually do? They're not going to have a ground or air war with Russia, they're not going to start a nuclear war, so what could they realistically do?
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    paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
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    #8
    Resonance wrote: »
    Would NATO even do anything if Russia did invade a country in Eastern Europe? Beyond huffing and puffing I mean. What could NATO actually do? They're not going to have a ground or air war with Russia, they're not going to start a nuclear war, so what could they realistically do?

    Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic all former members of the Iron Curtain have now joined NATO - there has been talk at least that Putin wants to return Russia to the power it had before the fall of the USSR - so what about these countries. To assume that Putin is not a danger to these countries is a very foolish thing indeed.
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    ResonanceResonance Posts: 16,644
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    #9
    paulschapman wrote: »
    Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic all former members of the Iron Curtain have now joined NATO - there has been talk at least that Putin wants to return Russia to the power it had before the fall of the USSR - so what about these countries. To assume that Putin is not a danger to these countries is a very foolish thing indeed.

    I'm not saying he isn't a danger. I'm asking what realistically could be done if he did invade one or more of these countries (although I doubt he will)? When we go to war we tend to only do it with countries that can't nuke us in a few minutes.
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    MARTYM8MARTYM8 Posts: 44,710
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    #10
    Here is a cheery you tube video of such a scenario

    https://youtu.be/bQ25RMezeLU
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    ResonanceResonance Posts: 16,644
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    #11
    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    Here is a cheery you tube video of such a scenario

    https://youtu.be/bQ25RMezeLU

    Just started watching it :eek:

    Cleverly done from what I've seen so far.
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    Net NutNet Nut Posts: 10,286
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    #12
    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    Here is a cheery you tube video of such a scenario

    https://youtu.be/bQ25RMezeLU

    Scary video should be shown in every school in the world.
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    Old Man 43Old Man 43 Posts: 6,214
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    #13
    Palafrugel wrote: »
    Protect who exactly? Do you think Putin wants to conquer the UK? Do you think Putin is a threat to any Western European nation? Putin for me is a threat to any nation that has a Russian speaking region and that has pro-Russian sentiment. Those nations that fall into that category can fund their own NATO.. when the current one collapses. I don't think it is in the UK interests - or Spain/France/Italy etc to spend billions of tax payer's money on arming the Estonian border.

    The simple answer to that is that it is in all those countries interests (as well as ours) to keep any potential threat as far away from all our shores/borders as possible.
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    DingbatDingbat Posts: 2,930
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    #14
    Resonance wrote: »
    I'm not saying he isn't a danger. I'm asking what realistically could be done if he did invade one or more of these countries (although I doubt he will)? When we go to war we tend to only do it with countries that can't nuke us in a few minutes.

    The whole rationale for NATO is mutual protection. So if Putin was stupid enough to attack Poland or the Baltic states, all NATO countries would be expected to get involved. That's one of the reasons for the recent military exercises, and US forces going into Poland last week.

    As for nukes, he may have sited some in his Kaliningrad enclave, but he's not the only one who's got them. Remember MAD?
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