Yes, by and large by other men. You're out of line here. Men need to educate and police other men and boys.
The rapist is always, always 100% responsible for the rape they choose to commit. Men are not wild animals who cannot control themselves. They are not hyper emotional ninnies who must be shepherded by women.
Here are ten helpful tips that might help you and other rape culture enthusiasts prevent rape.
Can we really trust *everyone*? Seriously? How do we know that 'hunky' barman isn't a predatory rapist? Perhaps we should have had the foresight to intuit this before he raped us??
If we're advocating not even taking soft drinks from strangers, where do we draw the line?
No-one is suggesting that caution isn't always advised and it is never a good idea to drink too much etc.. however, it is the fault ONLY of the rapists that this crime was committed.
I said not to take a drink from anyone that we didn't trust that much. A barman/lady should be someone we could trust to give us our drinks without anything that shouldn't be in them. Besides, we can easily keep our eyes on the drink until it's in our hands.
I said not to take a drink from anyone that we didn't trust that much. A barman/lady should be someone we could trust to give us our drinks without anything that shouldn't be in them. Besides, we can easily keep our eyes on the drink until it's in our hands.
Perhaps men could keep their eyes on their rogue penises and stop raping.
I don't know if there would be nearly as much outcry about this if it hadn't started with "Do you think it's fair what they got?" because as soon as she says that, it is like she's making an argument for blaming the girl. If she'd said "what those boys did was inexcusable, but the girl should've had enough sense to not get that drunk alone with them, she should have made sure to have her wits about her". That sort of statement in itself might not have been that bad at all, because it could've come off like she was trying to use her status to warn others (of both genders). But because she's brought their sentencing into it, it's not like that. And anyway, no matter how drunk she was, what right did those boys have to do anything to her? That photo on the dm website of them carrying her like they are kind of shows they're just pretty sorry excuses for human beings for treating anyone with that little respect.
Though, it answer her original question, I think what they got was ridiculous. They've got a year away, not even in real jail. And then it's in their past. Do you think it'll be in this girls past in a years time? No. It will be with her for the rest of her life. And in a years time, she'll not only have to remember everyday what happened to her, but also that they're out and could easily do it all over again to some other poor girl.
She's only saying what many were probably thinking; some blame must be attributed to the girl.
I'm surprised the attention isn't on the two boys though..they only got a 1 year sentence!
Why? For not fighting back hard enough? For not being sober? For wearing clothes that "led them on"?
It wouldn't matter if she had been lying naked in the middle of the street, drunk out of her skull ..... no one deserves to be raped, and no one should be blamed if it happens to them.
All these restrictions 'placed' upon women, as if women are responsible for men's sexuality and behaviour. Bollocks. Men are responsible for their own behaviour. Don't drink. Don't drink alone with men (what, even if they're your friends?). Don't go anywhere alone with a man, even if you know him. Do you know how ridiculous it sounds?? Do some reading and read this - it's men who obviously can't control themselves, so it's therefore logical to restrict their freedoms too, right?
Men are (generally), like women, not animals and usually aware of what constitutes right from wrong.
"In a statement on Wednesday, which was published on her website, Williams said: "What happened in Steubenville was a real shock for me. I was deeply saddened. For someone to be raped, and at only sixteen, is such a horrible tragedy! For both families involved – that of the rape victim and of the accused. I am currently reaching out to the girl's family to let her know that I am deeply sorry for what was written in the Rolling Stone article. What was written – what I supposedly said – is insensitive and hurtful, and I by no means would say or insinuate that she was at all to blame."
"What I supposedly said..."? Bullshit. If she had been misquoted, then she'd say so, and be quite rightly outraged. Plainly the RS tape tells it like it was.
But if nothing else, maybe it'll teach her to think before she opens her stupid mouth in future.
First of all, I would never say someone is to blame for being a rape victim, 100% of the blame is always on the attacker.
However, it is foolish to believe people cannot minimize the chances of such an event occurring, as with other crimes. For example you may be more likely to be mugged by walking alone in the dark and you can potentially reduce that risk by walking in groups.
First of all, I would never say someone is to blame for being a rape victim, 100% of the blame is always on the attacker.
However, it is foolish to believe people cannot minimize the chances of such an event occurring as with other crimes. For example you may be more likely to be mugged by walking alone in the dark and you can potentially reduce that risk by walking in groups.
That's true, but that tends to lead us (not always) down the same alleyway. Walking home from work in the early evening in winter, for example. Women can't be chaperoned everywhere...and being chaperoned by a bloke is a bit of a double-edged sword anyway, as women are far more likely to be raped by people they know ("the rapist is 100% to blame for his actions, but y'know, you shouldn't have been alone with him...")
Exactly. I really do not think Serena has been thoughtless here. She simply just meant that something worse could have happened to her. It's like you have to say the absolute perfect thing in order not to be slated by anyone. De hell with that.
"She was only gangraped, at least she's not dead."
By that logic all cancer patients should be glad they don't have AIDS. Which means it's insane logic really. She's a moron. Just because she was ONLY a victim of gangrape, she should consider herself lucky they didn't slit her throat and dump the body too? No, I think anyone who suffers any crime would like to be thought of as unlucky, whether it's a mugging or indeed rape. Crime is not something you are lucky to suffer.
Serena Williams should stick to hitting balls on tennis courts rather than opening her mouth if this is all she can offer.
First of all, I would never say someone is to blame for being a rape victim, 100% of the blame is always on the attacker.
However, it is foolish to believe people cannot minimize the chances of such an event occurring, as with other crimes. For example you may be more likely to be mugged by walking alone in the dark and you can potentially reduce that risk by walking in groups.
I don't think anyone is arguing against good basic sensible precautions that in an ideal world would apply to everyone when out & about/socialising. Tragically, some people on this thread seem to believe that failure to take reasonable precautions at all times leaves people open to assault/rape - as if it's an inevitable consequence and one we should accept! - and in effect are more or less saying 'well, if you didn't do X, then Y wouldn't have happened.'
"She was only gangraped, at least she's not dead."
By that logic all cancer patients should be glad they don't have AIDS. Which means it's insane logic really. She's a moron. Just because she was ONLY a victim of gangrape, she should consider herself lucky they didn't slit her throat and dump the body too? No, I think anyone who suffers any crime would like to be thought of as unlucky, whether it's a mugging or indeed rape. Crime is not something you are lucky to suffer.
Serena Williams should stick to hitting balls on tennis courts rather than opening her mouth if this is all she can offer.
"She was only gangraped, at least she's not dead."
By that logic all cancer patients should be glad they don't have AIDS. Which means it's insane logic really. She's a moron. Just because she was ONLY a victim of gangrape, she should consider herself lucky they didn't slit her throat and dump the body too? No, I think anyone who suffers any crime would like to be thought of as unlucky, whether it's a mugging or indeed rape. Crime is not something you are lucky to suffer.
Serena Williams should stick to hitting balls on tennis courts rather than opening her mouth if this is all she can offer.
Not comparable at all. It isn't the girl's fault that she was raped, but it is her fault that she got so drunk. If a man got drunk and was mugged as a consequence, a lot of people on here would be blaming him for getting into a state. Not everything has to become a gender debate.
Not comparable at all. It isn't the girl's fault that she was raped, but it is her fault that she got so drunk. If a man got drunk and was mugged as a consequence, a lot of people on here would be blaming him for getting into a state. Not everything has to become a gender debate.
Getting drunk leads to a bad hangover. Last time I got drunk, I didn't wake up having been raped and then go "Oh well, at least I'm not dead!" She was at a party with people who were meant to be her friends and drank too much, she wasn't wandering home alone from a bar after 8 pints when a knife got pulled and her life threatened. If someone can't relax and have a few drinks in the company of their friends without basically expecting to be raped as soon as they feel drowsy and want a nap, I feel that's a very sad state of affairs and frankly I'd question the company you keep if that just seems par for the course to you.
Perhaps we could extend the same advice to any rapists or would be rapists out there: Raping is wrong. Women have the RIGHT to get drunk and wear what they like (even if it is not always sensible) so please do not rape them.
Also, boys and young men - can you also take care of yourselves to prevent attack or crime?
Finally, if you ARE raped and you WERE drunk, you were NOT asking for it and it is NOT your fault.
Ive not said that its anyone's fault they were raped. I just think there needs to be more education out there-- for girls/wo/men/boys* to be careful. I think a lot of people lull themselves into a false sense of security.
It's like when my mom and Dad used to and still say "let us know where you're going," and "phone if you are going to be late"or "don't walk late on your own" etc etc.
Now I have every right to go out and not coming to an end or attacked.
Of course people should have fun and where what they want without fear of being violated, but sadly there are devilish people.
Noone says don't get drunk, but be careful. I've been to too many frat parties to count when I was in high-school-- i know the crap they bring to parties.. high school parties too. I've just learned to be hyper-vigilant.
Rapists and murderers know what they are doing is wrong. hell.. they relish in it.
Ive not said that its anyone's fault they were raped. I just think there needs to be more education out there-- for girls/wo/men/boys* to be careful. I think a lot of people lull themselves into a false sense of security.
It's like when my mom and Dad used to and still say "let us know where you're going," and "phone if you are going to be late"or "don't walk late on your own" etc etc.
Now I have every right to go out and not coming to an end or attacked.
Of course people should have fun and where what they want without fear of being violated, but sadly there are devilish people.
Noone says don't get drunk, but be careful. I've been to too many frat parties to count when I was in high-school-- i know the crap they bring to parties.. high school parties too.
Rapists and murderers know what they are doing is wrong. hell.. they relish in it.
You're right. There's always too much sensitivity when anything like this is discussed.
I agree with a lot of your points here. I'm not justifying rape; its disgusting. When I apportion some blame to her, all I am saying is that if she hadn't have been so intoxicated then *perhaps* this wouldn't have happened. By all means, the boys are the culprits and deserve punishment. I know some people here probably think my view is disgusting and thats fine. What I find disgusting is how no notice to the mere 1 year sentence is being given here.
Why is that not the focal point of the story when instead the focal point is some tennis player's comments?
Abhorrent,disgusting and disturbing.
The worst of it being that you actually have to ask the question about the leniency of the sentence, it beggars belief....you make statements that she should be apportioned some "blame", you have high profile athlete's echoing this foul sentiment and thousands of other's...it's entrenched, and the same disturbing mindset you have crawls all the way to law courts.
She was hauled around like a dead carcass for pity's sake. And she hasn't been treated much better since.
She is in NO way to blame.....the blame is entirely with the offender's, and with society that perpetuates this rank attitude that it's kinda not all the perpetrator's fault if she is "asking for it" or a green light if she isn't a virgin.....or what ever ludicrous and outlandish markers any given person decides is where the blame for the crime is levelled at the victim.
What they did was wrong, and inhumane and I can't help feeling that partly due these attitudes they felt they had a right to and this appears to be supported by the leniency of the sentence.
What a repugnant moron. She should have dinner with Nick Ross & Joanna Lumley:yawn:
Ross is a total dick for what he said, but all Joanna Lumley said is that young women owe it to themselves to be mindful of the dangers out there. I have no issue with her comments.
Also, one year each for these college football scumbags who raped a young girl, appalling sentence.
Not comparable at all. It isn't the girl's fault that she was raped, but it is her fault that she got so drunk. If a man got drunk and was mugged as a consequence, a lot of people on here would be blaming him for getting into a state. Not everything has to become a gender debate.
And?
She got drunk and then got raped. I don't see how it can be her 'fault' that she got drunk and then not her 'fault' that she got raped? Apportioning any blame on her is abhorrent IMHO.
What about if she'd been 'mildly tipsy' and could only normally tolerate 3 glasses of wine but had 4 because she was relaxed? She was then raped. Would that also be her fault?
As for a man getting mugged when he was drunk - the same point for me - the criminal is in the wrong - not the victim. Bugger all to do with gender.
She's correct that the girl shouldn't have placed herself in a vulnerable state by drinking so much (if indeed her drink wasn't spiked), but to dismiss rape as merely a "stupid act" is moronic.
Unfortunately Serena has shown several times that she's rather detestable.
She got drunk and then got raped. I don't see how it can be her 'fault' that she got drunk and then not her 'fault' that she got raped? Apportioning any blame on her is abhorrent IMHO.
What about if she'd been 'mildly tipsy' and could only normally tolerate 3 glasses of wine but had 4 because she was relaxed? She was then raped. Would that also be her fault?
As for a man getting mugged when he was drunk - the same point for me - the criminal is in the wrong - not the victim. Bugger all to do with gender.
Rape is obviously unacceptable, but there are plenty of grey areas and quite a number of girls cry rape for various reasons.
Serena does have a point in ways.
No, she doesn't in this case. Rape is rape, and, yes, sadly, some people, for attention, cry rape.
But as far I understood, people witnessing the disgusting act were taking it in as entertainment instead of doing something to prevent it, even to the point of filming it. How can that be a case of "crying rape"? My comment concerned rape. Not people crying rape.
Comments
The rapist is always, always 100% responsible for the rape they choose to commit. Men are not wild animals who cannot control themselves. They are not hyper emotional ninnies who must be shepherded by women.
Here are ten helpful tips that might help you and other rape culture enthusiasts prevent rape.
I said not to take a drink from anyone that we didn't trust that much. A barman/lady should be someone we could trust to give us our drinks without anything that shouldn't be in them. Besides, we can easily keep our eyes on the drink until it's in our hands.
Perhaps men could keep their eyes on their rogue penises and stop raping.
Though, it answer her original question, I think what they got was ridiculous. They've got a year away, not even in real jail. And then it's in their past. Do you think it'll be in this girls past in a years time? No. It will be with her for the rest of her life. And in a years time, she'll not only have to remember everyday what happened to her, but also that they're out and could easily do it all over again to some other poor girl.
Why? For not fighting back hard enough? For not being sober? For wearing clothes that "led them on"?
It wouldn't matter if she had been lying naked in the middle of the street, drunk out of her skull ..... no one deserves to be raped, and no one should be blamed if it happens to them.
Men are (generally), like women, not animals and usually aware of what constitutes right from wrong.
Williams tries to distance herself from remarks made about the steubenville rape case
"In a statement on Wednesday, which was published on her website, Williams said: "What happened in Steubenville was a real shock for me. I was deeply saddened. For someone to be raped, and at only sixteen, is such a horrible tragedy! For both families involved – that of the rape victim and of the accused. I am currently reaching out to the girl's family to let her know that I am deeply sorry for what was written in the Rolling Stone article. What was written – what I supposedly said – is insensitive and hurtful, and I by no means would say or insinuate that she was at all to blame."
"What I supposedly said..."? Bullshit. If she had been misquoted, then she'd say so, and be quite rightly outraged. Plainly the RS tape tells it like it was.
But if nothing else, maybe it'll teach her to think before she opens her stupid mouth in future.
However, it is foolish to believe people cannot minimize the chances of such an event occurring, as with other crimes. For example you may be more likely to be mugged by walking alone in the dark and you can potentially reduce that risk by walking in groups.
That's true, but that tends to lead us (not always) down the same alleyway. Walking home from work in the early evening in winter, for example. Women can't be chaperoned everywhere...and being chaperoned by a bloke is a bit of a double-edged sword anyway, as women are far more likely to be raped by people they know ("the rapist is 100% to blame for his actions, but y'know, you shouldn't have been alone with him...")
"She was only gangraped, at least she's not dead."
By that logic all cancer patients should be glad they don't have AIDS. Which means it's insane logic really. She's a moron. Just because she was ONLY a victim of gangrape, she should consider herself lucky they didn't slit her throat and dump the body too? No, I think anyone who suffers any crime would like to be thought of as unlucky, whether it's a mugging or indeed rape. Crime is not something you are lucky to suffer.
Serena Williams should stick to hitting balls on tennis courts rather than opening her mouth if this is all she can offer.
I don't think anyone is arguing against good basic sensible precautions that in an ideal world would apply to everyone when out & about/socialising. Tragically, some people on this thread seem to believe that failure to take reasonable precautions at all times leaves people open to assault/rape - as if it's an inevitable consequence and one we should accept! - and in effect are more or less saying 'well, if you didn't do X, then Y wouldn't have happened.'
That mindset is really disturbing.
Amen.
Rape is obviously unacceptable, but there are plenty of grey areas and quite a number of girls cry rape for various reasons.
Serena does have a point in ways.
Not comparable at all. It isn't the girl's fault that she was raped, but it is her fault that she got so drunk. If a man got drunk and was mugged as a consequence, a lot of people on here would be blaming him for getting into a state. Not everything has to become a gender debate.
Getting drunk leads to a bad hangover. Last time I got drunk, I didn't wake up having been raped and then go "Oh well, at least I'm not dead!" She was at a party with people who were meant to be her friends and drank too much, she wasn't wandering home alone from a bar after 8 pints when a knife got pulled and her life threatened. If someone can't relax and have a few drinks in the company of their friends without basically expecting to be raped as soon as they feel drowsy and want a nap, I feel that's a very sad state of affairs and frankly I'd question the company you keep if that just seems par for the course to you.
Now you're changing direction. I know my point about being able to keep your eyes on your drink while waiting to get served at the bar was right.
Ive not said that its anyone's fault they were raped. I just think there needs to be more education out there-- for girls/wo/men/boys* to be careful. I think a lot of people lull themselves into a false sense of security.
It's like when my mom and Dad used to and still say "let us know where you're going," and "phone if you are going to be late"or "don't walk late on your own" etc etc.
Now I have every right to go out and not coming to an end or attacked.
Of course people should have fun and where what they want without fear of being violated, but sadly there are devilish people.
Noone says don't get drunk, but be careful. I've been to too many frat parties to count when I was in high-school-- i know the crap they bring to parties.. high school parties too. I've just learned to be hyper-vigilant.
Rapists and murderers know what they are doing is wrong. hell.. they relish in it.
You're right. There's always too much sensitivity when anything like this is discussed.
Abhorrent,disgusting and disturbing.
The worst of it being that you actually have to ask the question about the leniency of the sentence, it beggars belief....you make statements that she should be apportioned some "blame", you have high profile athlete's echoing this foul sentiment and thousands of other's...it's entrenched, and the same disturbing mindset you have crawls all the way to law courts.
She was hauled around like a dead carcass for pity's sake. And she hasn't been treated much better since.
She is in NO way to blame.....the blame is entirely with the offender's, and with society that perpetuates this rank attitude that it's kinda not all the perpetrator's fault if she is "asking for it" or a green light if she isn't a virgin.....or what ever ludicrous and outlandish markers any given person decides is where the blame for the crime is levelled at the victim.
What they did was wrong, and inhumane and I can't help feeling that partly due these attitudes they felt they had a right to and this appears to be supported by the leniency of the sentence.
Zero tolerance, no excuses.
Ross is a total dick for what he said, but all Joanna Lumley said is that young women owe it to themselves to be mindful of the dangers out there. I have no issue with her comments.
Also, one year each for these college football scumbags who raped a young girl, appalling sentence.
It was a point that certainly exhibited astonishing levels of ignorance.
And?
She got drunk and then got raped. I don't see how it can be her 'fault' that she got drunk and then not her 'fault' that she got raped? Apportioning any blame on her is abhorrent IMHO.
What about if she'd been 'mildly tipsy' and could only normally tolerate 3 glasses of wine but had 4 because she was relaxed? She was then raped. Would that also be her fault?
As for a man getting mugged when he was drunk - the same point for me - the criminal is in the wrong - not the victim. Bugger all to do with gender.
Unfortunately Serena has shown several times that she's rather detestable.
All this
No, she doesn't in this case. Rape is rape, and, yes, sadly, some people, for attention, cry rape.
But as far I understood, people witnessing the disgusting act were taking it in as entertainment instead of doing something to prevent it, even to the point of filming it. How can that be a case of "crying rape"? My comment concerned rape. Not people crying rape.