I think Debra sees Lorraine as her biggest rival.
She let her do the pitching because she thought she would make a mess of it, and if the team lost, she would throw all the blame at her.
She also dismissed Lorraine's suggestion for the exercise device out of hand.
When she was saying Lorraine worked hard, you just knew there was going to be a 'but'.
Her face, when Philip stood up for Lorraine and again when Sir Alan said they had Lorraine and Philip to thank for the win, was a picture of rage.
She also dismissed Lorraine's suggestion for the exercise device out of hand.
Um, am I remembering this correctly? When they had just a few minutes left, and Philip had come up with the bumball idea, Lorraine wanted to return to Debra's ankle exerciser. Debra shut her down because they didn't have time. It's at 18:00 on iPlayer. Is that what you are referring to?
It's funny how different people take different things away from the same scene. For me, it wasn't Lorraine's suggestion, it was Debra's. Lorraine didn't have any ideas of her own. Lorraine even repeated Debra's notion that it would be for old people. One of the things I liked about Debra is that she was willing to drop her own idea when it was shown to be non-viable; she didn't use her power as Project Leader to force it on the team.
She was right to shut Lorraine down. Regardless of who's idea it was or that it had already been dissed by the fitness trainer, there simply wasn't time to explore it. Philip's idea was clearly better and won them one of the biggest Apprentice victories we've ever seen. This was an example of good management, surely?
To me, she always looks like she is always up for a fight, something in her facial expressions. And I don't think she's a team player. I get the impression that Sir Alan is not that keen on her.
I'm sorry, I don't see why all the Debra bashing. I like her! I think she's very steely in her determination and what you see is what you get. Say what you want about her, backstabbing she ain't.
I personally thought Sir Alan was out of order by solely attributing the win to Philip and Lorraine. She as project manager, while perhaps not for the best motives, did allow the people to do what they did and hence the success.
As project manager, she decided to go for his idea when Lorraine again tried to bring up the crappy previous idea, even though it had also been Debra's she shot it down and made decisions in an instant rather than dithering.
Lorraine's pitching was atrocious, sorry. Though nowhere near as bad as Kate, who I'm finding to be totally useless at most things to be honest. But what Debra said, for people who were either slightly hard hearing or slightly stupid, I thought that was pretty fair.
Yes, she might not have always been the person coming up with the idea but it doesn't mean she wasn't deserving of the win, or the credit. How often do the PM's do it all themselves?
I generally agree, but the thread title is meaningless - as it wasn't a case of "deserving to win" or not - it was based solely on SALES!!!
JJ
What on earth does that have to do with anything? Debra won the task, but I feel was carried through solely by her team who outshone her in every way. IE thats how they got the sales. Sales that she didn't deserve.
I honestly couldn't care less if Debra is a bitch or not. Her attitude doesn't bother me, nor does the whole her being unpopular thing. My argument is simply that even with the attitude and the abruptness, and yes the rudeness, she fails to deliver in her management skills. There were so many points that she just failed at in her management I felt, but yes she did do a few things right. However, at key moments in this task I feel she simply did not do anywhere near as well as her team mates, and SA seemed to pick up on that too.
The totally flummoxing at the John Lewis pitch though was inexcusable to me. "We'd need to discuss that as a group..."... since when were businesses ran like a democracy? She should have taken decisive action as project leader, but it was left to Yasmina to jump in. Even then, Debra didn't say or do anything else after Yasmina had bought her some time to think. She didn't even offer a counter proposal. In business, if I knew one of my managers collapsed so easily when such a lucrative and incredible offer was on the table, I would be furious. Debra could have single handedly cost the whole group the task at that moment, and in real life business could have lost her company an incredible deal. She seemed to micromanage at all the parts that were not important, and totally collapse under the pressure at the important parts.
Even then, Debra didn't say or do anything else after Yasmina had bought her some time to think.
That was clearly edited. Somehow John Lewis ended up with a six month exclusivity deal for 10,000 units, and we didn't see that get negotiated. It may have been Yasmina all the way, but we don't know and we shouldn't assume Debra contributed nothing just because we don't like her.
At that point the task was already won. It was the product that won it. John Lewis wanted it and Debra clearly didn't cost them the deal because they got the deal.
Debra did a good job of managing the team to product the product. Better than James did. James had almost nothing to do with the product. He gave some preferences, and they got ignored because he wasn't sitting with the half the team that was doing the design. Debra kept her eye on the ball, and kept them focussed and moving forward even when Lorraine tried to waste time. James's team seemed to be behind schedule the whole task; Debra's team was on schedule.
I'm not denying she had good people on her team. I like Yasmina and Philip especially. James's team also had good people, eg Kate and Howard. The difference is that James let the weaker members like Majid have control over the most important element, the product. Debra managed her team well. In fact, the best we've seen in this series so far. Yasmina was also good, but she was well inside her comfort zone and simply dictatorial, where-as Debra knew nothing of the subject matter and had to rely more on her teammates.
I really don't think Debra deserved the win this week. It was only through Philip standing up to her and pushing his product idea forwards that the team won.
Debra really showed a lack of leadership skills to me, even though she likes to shout and bark as if she is SA himself. In the pitch when John Lewis wanted exclusivity, she should have taken control instead of weasling out a "We would need to discuss that as a group". She looked more lost than anything else, and obviously wasn't counting on such interest from them. Yasmina really showed some incredible initiative to attempt to negotiate, but it was also clear that she didn't really know what to reasonably pitch. She just knew she had to do something, which speaks volumes as the rest sat mute.
I personally feel she was too busy thinking how badly Lorraine was doing, and was putting together a little portfolio of how she was going to shred her to pieces in the boardroom if things went wrong.
The fact Debra also went with Lorraine to do the pitch when she was clearly not happy with the choice didn't sit well with me. Debra should have had the strength to put her foot down, but instead seemed to only want to set Lorraine up to fail, thus failing the team, and to come out guns blazing in the boardroom to pin the whole blame on her. We even saw her begin her attack in the opening statement about her teams performance... Luckily for Lorraine, which Debra also mentioned, the product seemed to sell itself. Otherwise there is no doubt in my mind who Debra would have pinned the entire blame on.
Then for her to sit so smugly and act as if she had single handedly won the task when she was talking to the other team... Wow I was stunned. I think even SA noted how her team had carried her through by commending Philip and Yasmina.
Definitely want to see her out ASAP. But then again, she is one of those powerful personalities that might just stick around till the end...
benenam, what a great post! I agree 100% with what you say. She would be an absolute nightmare managing any more than a school disco as, like you say, she'd need to micromanage the whole thing. I think the production team, however, see that she is a fruitful candidate for them as people will tune in to see her get her come-uppance from Sir Alan.
I think she'll stay long enough to get her 7.5 seconds of fame à la Katie Hopkins (I actually had to look her name up, that's how much longevity she's had). But, in deference to Katie Hopkins, Debra doesn't quite come up to Katie's mark in the vile and nasty scale ratings.
Comments
She let her do the pitching because she thought she would make a mess of it, and if the team lost, she would throw all the blame at her.
She also dismissed Lorraine's suggestion for the exercise device out of hand.
When she was saying Lorraine worked hard, you just knew there was going to be a 'but'.
Her face, when Philip stood up for Lorraine and again when Sir Alan said they had Lorraine and Philip to thank for the win, was a picture of rage.
Seems to be a jealous and a bitter woman
It's funny how different people take different things away from the same scene. For me, it wasn't Lorraine's suggestion, it was Debra's. Lorraine didn't have any ideas of her own. Lorraine even repeated Debra's notion that it would be for old people. One of the things I liked about Debra is that she was willing to drop her own idea when it was shown to be non-viable; she didn't use her power as Project Leader to force it on the team.
She was right to shut Lorraine down. Regardless of who's idea it was or that it had already been dissed by the fitness trainer, there simply wasn't time to explore it. Philip's idea was clearly better and won them one of the biggest Apprentice victories we've ever seen. This was an example of good management, surely?
I personally thought Sir Alan was out of order by solely attributing the win to Philip and Lorraine. She as project manager, while perhaps not for the best motives, did allow the people to do what they did and hence the success.
As project manager, she decided to go for his idea when Lorraine again tried to bring up the crappy previous idea, even though it had also been Debra's she shot it down and made decisions in an instant rather than dithering.
Lorraine's pitching was atrocious, sorry. Though nowhere near as bad as Kate, who I'm finding to be totally useless at most things to be honest. But what Debra said, for people who were either slightly hard hearing or slightly stupid, I thought that was pretty fair.
Yes, she might not have always been the person coming up with the idea but it doesn't mean she wasn't deserving of the win, or the credit. How often do the PM's do it all themselves?
I like her
What on earth does that have to do with anything? Debra won the task, but I feel was carried through solely by her team who outshone her in every way. IE thats how they got the sales. Sales that she didn't deserve.
I honestly couldn't care less if Debra is a bitch or not. Her attitude doesn't bother me, nor does the whole her being unpopular thing. My argument is simply that even with the attitude and the abruptness, and yes the rudeness, she fails to deliver in her management skills. There were so many points that she just failed at in her management I felt, but yes she did do a few things right. However, at key moments in this task I feel she simply did not do anywhere near as well as her team mates, and SA seemed to pick up on that too.
The totally flummoxing at the John Lewis pitch though was inexcusable to me. "We'd need to discuss that as a group..."... since when were businesses ran like a democracy? She should have taken decisive action as project leader, but it was left to Yasmina to jump in. Even then, Debra didn't say or do anything else after Yasmina had bought her some time to think. She didn't even offer a counter proposal. In business, if I knew one of my managers collapsed so easily when such a lucrative and incredible offer was on the table, I would be furious. Debra could have single handedly cost the whole group the task at that moment, and in real life business could have lost her company an incredible deal. She seemed to micromanage at all the parts that were not important, and totally collapse under the pressure at the important parts.
At that point the task was already won. It was the product that won it. John Lewis wanted it and Debra clearly didn't cost them the deal because they got the deal.
Debra did a good job of managing the team to product the product. Better than James did. James had almost nothing to do with the product. He gave some preferences, and they got ignored because he wasn't sitting with the half the team that was doing the design. Debra kept her eye on the ball, and kept them focussed and moving forward even when Lorraine tried to waste time. James's team seemed to be behind schedule the whole task; Debra's team was on schedule.
I'm not denying she had good people on her team. I like Yasmina and Philip especially. James's team also had good people, eg Kate and Howard. The difference is that James let the weaker members like Majid have control over the most important element, the product. Debra managed her team well. In fact, the best we've seen in this series so far. Yasmina was also good, but she was well inside her comfort zone and simply dictatorial, where-as Debra knew nothing of the subject matter and had to rely more on her teammates.
benenam, what a great post! I agree 100% with what you say. She would be an absolute nightmare managing any more than a school disco as, like you say, she'd need to micromanage the whole thing. I think the production team, however, see that she is a fruitful candidate for them as people will tune in to see her get her come-uppance from Sir Alan.
I think she'll stay long enough to get her 7.5 seconds of fame à la Katie Hopkins (I actually had to look her name up, that's how much longevity she's had). But, in deference to Katie Hopkins, Debra doesn't quite come up to Katie's mark in the vile and nasty scale ratings.
Debra to go.... quick smart.