No, the other way around. If she only ever met 10 once, at the library, then she have would have instantly 100% known that he hadnt experienced the Byzantium, Asgard or anything else with her. The fact that she wasn't entirely sure where in his timeline ahe was and had to ask shows she MUST have met 10 several times.
As hypergreenfrog says, it was incredibly well written and covers all eventualities. Some people just need to forget their preconceptions to allow it all to fit together.
No, what I'm saying is. 10 doesn't recognise River AT ALL. He's never met her before in his life.
Therefore it's fairly obvious they haven't done the Byzantium, they haven't done ANYTHING together.
From River's perspective they have, but from this Doctor's they haven't.
Also, if she's met this incarnation before then she knows it's AFTER he's changed into 11 that they have the Byzantium adventure. She has that adventure with Matt Smith.
The face is a give away. David Tennant is earlier than Matt Smith, at this point she should know this. Whether she's met him once or 100 times before she should know, he can't change back to a previous face so he's either before 11 or after.
So, it doesn't cover every eventuality in the slightest.
No, what I'm saying is. 10 doesn't recognise River AT ALL. He's never met her before in his life.
Therefore it's fairly obvious they haven't done the Byzantium, they haven't done ANYTHING together.
From River's perspective they have, but from this Doctor's they haven't.
You're missing something crucial.
Its not obvious at all. At that point River doesn't realise that 10 doesn't recognise her. She even says "You're doing a very good job acting like you don't know me. I'm a assuming there's a reason" It's not until she goes through her diary, combined with looking into his eyes that the penny drops.
As far as she's concerned she and 10 have met a number if times and this just was another encounter.
Maybe not River but if Jack comes back to see this new, more mature, Doctor he'll probably be disappointed
don't know given all the times Jack has been sent back in time and had wait to see him again he will just be happy to see him plus he's probably older than The Doctor now
I like what Moffat said and agree with that. I am one who had had enough of her but think it could be good with the right story for her to meet Peter Capaldi's Doctor, but quite fancy her being ghostly so she cant shoot things up or be otherwise annoying.
My personal story is that River Song is with the final Doctor at his final moments just before he dies (not that we'll ever see that on screen).
In Silence in the Library, just before she whispers his name in his ear, she says she's going to prove how much he will trust her in his future. Then she says, "I'm sorry." I've always thought she said that because she knew that whatever she was going to say would hurt or upset him. hearing a reference to his death would definitely upset him.
In my story, when a time lord dies, there is a ritual that requires him to send his name back to Gallifrey, so that all will know. Yes, I know there is no Gallifrey any longer, but I just needed closure in my own mind, and since I didn't get it from Moffett (who wasn't obligated to give it to me, anyway), I just made up my own tale.
I know that most believe that the doctor told her his name in The Wedding of River Song, but if, as he tells River Song just before she dies, "there's only one time" he can, I don't believe he would tell her unless it was for real. And I took the words literally - only one time. He can marry more than once, but a time lord's death comes only once (well, supposedly).
After all, "all stories in the end." I just made up my own.
I hope not. River and Amy were what hindered 11th doctor’s reign imo.
The character had proper closure in the Name of the Doctor episode. I never want to see River again.
Don't agree with that but I do think her story has gone full circle
I know that most believe that the doctor told her his name in The Wedding of River Song,
I don't think anyone (who pays attention) believes that since it's stated in the episode that he did not.
But yes it's almost certain River was around for the Battle of Trenzalore and that is certainly a possibility for the time and place that he tells her his name.
My personal story is that River Song is with the final Doctor at his final moments just before he dies (not that we'll ever see that on screen).
In Silence in the Library, just before she whispers his name in his ear, she says she's going to prove how much he will trust her in his future. Then she says, "I'm sorry." I've always thought she said that because she knew that whatever she was going to say would hurt or upset him. hearing a reference to his death would definitely upset him.
In my story, when a time lord dies, there is a ritual that requires him to send his name back to Gallifrey, so that all will know. Yes, I know there is no Gallifrey any longer, but I just needed closure in my own mind, and since I didn't get it from Moffett (who wasn't obligated to give it to me, anyway), I just made up my own tale.
After all, "all stories in the end." I just made up my own.
I like your theory
I thought he told her in Lets kill Hitler. After all he was dying there. But your theory is better.
I would love to see her with twelve. We follow the doctors timeline not hers, so it would be easy to do.
I don't think anyone (who pays attention) believes that since it's stated in the episode that he did not.
But yes it's almost certain River was around for the Battle of Trenzalore and that is certainly a possibility for the time and place that he tells her his name.
I'm always surprised at how many people don't seem to pay attention, but then I embarrass myself by doing the same thing.:p
I like your theory
I thought he told her in Lets kill Hitler. After all he was dying there. But your theory is better.
Maybe he did. I thought his comment in her ear (assuming that's what you mean) was never really explained, but (see above comment), sometimes scenes like that are explained by Moffat and/or others, and I miss it.
Personally, I believe it was something about their relationship or some comment that would cause her to see what kind of man he really is. I thought it would have to have a strong emotional impact to cause an entire paradigm shift in her mindset from "Kill the Doctor" to "Save the Doctor." But then I do tend to over-analyze these things.:)
I would love to see her with twelve. We follow the doctors timeline not hers, so it would be easy to do.
Me too, even if only for one episode, just to see the new dynamics of there relationship. But.... I think not, at least not unless it occurs organically. Then, Moffat might bring her back for a short visit.
They could allways come up with a story for 12 and River if they wanted too. It would show the memories and love do not die with the old body. Also would love to know what 11 said to her in LKH. Rivers "death" in the library was not a true death a clean death .Only her flesh body died. 10 thought he was "saving" her but in reality he was just prolonging the grief and pain for both her and his future self(s).Leaving her soul trapped between the worlds of the dead and living. 12 could face the ultimate ethical dilema. Does he find a way to fully restore her to life or does he love her enough to let her go for good ?. Make sure she can finally rest in peace with Amy and Rory.
Its not obvious at all. At that point River doesn't realise that 10 doesn't recognise her. She even says "You're doing a very good job acting like you don't know me. I'm a assuming there's a reason" It's not until she goes through her diary, combined with looking into his eyes that the penny drops.
As far as she's concerned she and 10 have met a number if times and this just was another encounter.
You're missing something crucial.
Whether the 10 she meets in the Library recognises her or not, she would have gathered from her meetings with future 10s that he comes BEFORE the Matt Smith incarnation known as 11. She has the Byzantium adventure with 11 and by the time the Library adventure takes place she would know that whether the Doctor recognises her or not, his face is BEFORE the Byzantium.
I would like to see one more episode where they finally sort everything out. They should show her soul is free and happy not stuck in a library. Do you think Amy and Rory are waiting for her ?. Wondering why she has never joined them ?. Her life ,"death" and "after life" have all been a disaster. I know the doctor and her parents loved her so why didn't they fight for her ?. Especially after Amy and Rory were told they couldn't have any more children. Grieve for what you have lost but remember what you still had.Back up their words and feelings with action . Instead she was abandoned and neglected (left to rot for years in stormcage ! ) while alive and ignored when she was "dead" TNOTD. Because her husband was too emotionally immature to deal with his grief and guilt.If she can't be the doctors "wife" in the tardis she needs to go to heaven to be Amy and Rorys daughter again and this time forever.
Whether the 10 she meets in the Library recognises her or not, she would have gathered from her meetings with future 10s that he comes BEFORE the Matt Smith incarnation known as 11. She has the Byzantium adventure with 11 and by the time the Library adventure takes place she would know that whether the Doctor recognises her or not, his face is BEFORE the Byzantium.
Indeed. This is why I think River meets Capaldi. If she doesn't, it again doesn't make sense for her to assume 10 knows anything at all about her. What is implied is that River hasn't really met any Doctors before 10 (or 10 as you point out), since 10 doesn't recognise her. But her having met other Doctors, or at least Capaldi, can explain the fact she was confused as to whether or not 10 recognises her. If, however, all of River's relationship with the Doctor played out with 11, then it doesn't make sense for River to ask any of the questions she asked 10. Either he would recognise her or not, every single diary entry would refer to 11.
Funny in TOTA 11 asks how river can recognise him if he doesn't allways look the same. River claims she has pitcures of all his faces but needs a spoters guide. Laterbshe teases him aboutbbeing "baby faced". Also said he looks like a 12 year old in TATM. Read into it what you will. Would like to see flash backs or at least a referance to River and the Ponds in 11's last episode at christmas. They were his family afterall.
Comments
No, what I'm saying is. 10 doesn't recognise River AT ALL. He's never met her before in his life.
Therefore it's fairly obvious they haven't done the Byzantium, they haven't done ANYTHING together.
From River's perspective they have, but from this Doctor's they haven't.
Also, if she's met this incarnation before then she knows it's AFTER he's changed into 11 that they have the Byzantium adventure. She has that adventure with Matt Smith.
The face is a give away. David Tennant is earlier than Matt Smith, at this point she should know this. Whether she's met him once or 100 times before she should know, he can't change back to a previous face so he's either before 11 or after.
So, it doesn't cover every eventuality in the slightest.
You're missing something crucial.
Its not obvious at all. At that point River doesn't realise that 10 doesn't recognise her. She even says "You're doing a very good job acting like you don't know me. I'm a assuming there's a reason" It's not until she goes through her diary, combined with looking into his eyes that the penny drops.
As far as she's concerned she and 10 have met a number if times and this just was another encounter.
don't know given all the times Jack has been sent back in time and had wait to see him again he will just be happy to see him plus he's probably older than The Doctor now
In Silence in the Library, just before she whispers his name in his ear, she says she's going to prove how much he will trust her in his future. Then she says, "I'm sorry." I've always thought she said that because she knew that whatever she was going to say would hurt or upset him. hearing a reference to his death would definitely upset him.
In my story, when a time lord dies, there is a ritual that requires him to send his name back to Gallifrey, so that all will know. Yes, I know there is no Gallifrey any longer, but I just needed closure in my own mind, and since I didn't get it from Moffett (who wasn't obligated to give it to me, anyway), I just made up my own tale.
I know that most believe that the doctor told her his name in The Wedding of River Song, but if, as he tells River Song just before she dies, "there's only one time" he can, I don't believe he would tell her unless it was for real. And I took the words literally - only one time. He can marry more than once, but a time lord's death comes only once (well, supposedly).
After all, "all stories in the end." I just made up my own.
Don't agree with that but I do think her story has gone full circle
I don't think anyone (who pays attention) believes that since it's stated in the episode that he did not.
But yes it's almost certain River was around for the Battle of Trenzalore and that is certainly a possibility for the time and place that he tells her his name.
I like your theory
I thought he told her in Lets kill Hitler. After all he was dying there. But your theory is better.
I would love to see her with twelve. We follow the doctors timeline not hers, so it would be easy to do.
I'm always surprised at how many people don't seem to pay attention, but then I embarrass myself by doing the same thing.:p
Maybe he did. I thought his comment in her ear (assuming that's what you mean) was never really explained, but (see above comment), sometimes scenes like that are explained by Moffat and/or others, and I miss it.
Personally, I believe it was something about their relationship or some comment that would cause her to see what kind of man he really is. I thought it would have to have a strong emotional impact to cause an entire paradigm shift in her mindset from "Kill the Doctor" to "Save the Doctor." But then I do tend to over-analyze these things.:)
Me too, even if only for one episode, just to see the new dynamics of there relationship. But.... I think not, at least not unless it occurs organically. Then, Moffat might bring her back for a short visit.
You're missing something crucial.
Whether the 10 she meets in the Library recognises her or not, she would have gathered from her meetings with future 10s that he comes BEFORE the Matt Smith incarnation known as 11. She has the Byzantium adventure with 11 and by the time the Library adventure takes place she would know that whether the Doctor recognises her or not, his face is BEFORE the Byzantium.
A digital copy of River was stuck in the Library, her Soul would have gone wherever souls go upon her death.
Indeed. This is why I think River meets Capaldi. If she doesn't, it again doesn't make sense for her to assume 10 knows anything at all about her. What is implied is that River hasn't really met any Doctors before 10 (or 10 as you point out), since 10 doesn't recognise her. But her having met other Doctors, or at least Capaldi, can explain the fact she was confused as to whether or not 10 recognises her. If, however, all of River's relationship with the Doctor played out with 11, then it doesn't make sense for River to ask any of the questions she asked 10. Either he would recognise her or not, every single diary entry would refer to 11.