A two Mrs. T night! KCET was running S3E2, speaking of "I could eat that man up with a spoon." Although I must say my fave line of that ep was Pauline's poo water comment. Then a bit later, watching As Time Goes By, there as Selina again as a customer buying a hat in the charity shop. Looked about the same, sans neck brace and a bit more makeup.
I sure hope next weeks ep isn't the ruination of this character, she is one of my faves. I hate to say it but I like watching the old episodes much more than this current series. So much more enjoyable watching a show with a lighter feel.
I emailed KCET yet again last week and yet again got no response. :mad: Mr. Zachery said the footage they shot over the summer would begin airing in October. Um....
The only evidence is a short little begging for bucks bit they run before and after Doc. It's MC, loose tie, thanking viewers for watching DM and KCET. Glad you enjoy watching as much as we enjoy making, please give, etc.,..or I will shoot your dog. I mean it. Then he laughs and looks around to make sure everyone gets the joke and a few people behind him laugh.
I can't see the sense in deliberately writing in order to move the storyline in the opposite direction to where the majority of viewers want to see it head.
Don't get this Alestorm Are you saying that the direction of characters in a show should be dictated by the fans? To my mind, the storylines have stayed absolutely true to the characters - they may not be in the direction some of us old romantics would have liked, but they have been consistent - and kept us watching just in case the Doc has a personality transplant - or gets drunk again;);) There have been loads of great one-liners and funny bits, but I will admit to missing the little bits if slapstick that we used to get:D:D
A two Mrs. T night! KCET was running S3E2, speaking of "I could eat that man up with a spoon." Although I must say my fave line of that ep was Pauline's poo water comment. Then a bit later, watching As Time Goes By, there as Selina again as a customer buying a hat in the charity shop. Looked about the same, sans neck brace and a bit more makeup.
I sure hope next weeks ep isn't the ruination of this character, she is one of my faves. I hate to say it but I like watching the old episodes much more than this current series. So much more enjoyable watching a show with a lighter feel.
I emailed KCET yet again last week and yet again got no response. :mad: Mr. Zachery said the footage they shot over the summer would begin airing in October. Um....
The only evidence is a short little begging for bucks bit they run before and after Doc. It's MC, loose tie, thanking viewers for watching DM and KCET. Glad you enjoy watching as much as we enjoy making, please give, etc.,..or I will shoot your dog. I mean it. Then he laughs and looks around to make sure everyone gets the joke and a few people behind him laugh.
I looked through KCET's Nov. and Dec. schedule and couldn't find the behind-the-scenes filming of DM in either month. Of course, I was just looking in the prime-time slots, 7:00 to 10:00 p.m. They'll probably wait and put it on during a fund-raiser for KCET!
Don't get this Alestorm Are you saying that the direction of characters in a show should be dictated by the fans? To my mind, the storylines have stayed absolutely true to the characters - they may not be in the direction some of us old romantics would have liked, but they have been consistent - and kept us watching just in case the Doc has a personality transplant - or gets drunk again;);) There have been loads of great one-liners and funny bits, but I will admit to missing the little bits if slapstick that we used to get:D:D
No not saying that exactly SimplyRed but DM's/LG's relationship is just too far-fetched to be believable now and it needn't have been that way. That's my beef! I'm loving the AR/Al intrigue; Morwenna; Bert as usual and particularly Penhale but DM and LG's behaviour is fast losing the wonderful charm built up over the four preceeding series. If they continue being the way they are to each other I don't think I'm going to care what becomes of them anymore...and I really don't want it to be like that.
I think DM speech of the above HAS to be followed by LG also admitting she over-reacts, over-judges, and has precise expectations of how he should behave and answer, and blows up or mopes when he doesn't fulfill them. She'll work on accepting him as he is, be lighter in nature, have more sense of humor, and not take everything personally.
I really think they BOTH need to do a "passionate speech". If the writers once again just have DM admitting he alone was at fault, then really I feel they are completely and utterly clueless as to how they presented LG this season.
Mona
I think Doc Martin will get to have the last word since it is the finale of his show. But, I agree, once again, that Louisa must be given an opportunity to speak about how she feels about him and their relationship. Even if it's not to him.
I remember, years ago watching shows like "Cheers", and the main character, Sam Malone had an on/again off/again relationship with Diane, then when they "got together" it just wasn't the same. Then he pined for Rebecca, and I thought as soon as they "get together" it will ruin it, and it did!
Sipowitz on NYPD Blue was a miserable guy like DM. He married twice and had a kid, but the show did not lose it's edge. He was still as hard and cranky with his police work but had a different relationship with his family. He was still miserable bugger with his wives at times and things would get messy. So it can be done successfully if the producers are careful to make it work. I think BP could do it, too.
That was the theme of OPRAH's show this week. Don't think the person you care for will be different from the one they are showing you.
Martin has always been Martin. I think after the first few series Louisa realized this is who he is. Even at the end of this last episode 7, when he's been a little more gentle, when he calls her name and she expects, perhaps, something softer, and gets instead, "please ask them to switch off the music"... her "Yes, Martin" shows that she's sees she's got the real Martin there. The thing that got to her (in episode 6) is that as much as she wants them to be together, she doesn't think she can live with it, if he's isn't able to change. She's very unhappy. She can't delude herself that there's a new guy under the skin. Everyone sees that he is trying to be a good father to JH and a 'companion' (or whatever) to Louisa. He is not keyed into other people's emotions and he just doesn't know how to do it. He kept on speaking about the egg, when she was obviously speaking about the relationship. (Where's Dr. Milligan when you need him?) With all due respect to AR, I don't think she's suitable to give help. Firstly, she's an Ellingham and her life is devoid of personal relationships (except with AL who's young enough to be her son) and second I don't think she really understands the depth of the love they feel for each other despite the fact that they're so bad at expressing it. Martin's parents were vile and they didn't love each other or their son. Making a comparison between DM/LG and CE and his wife shows a total lack of insight into the nature of M/L's relationship. DM's way to operate is to just get on with things and make unilateral decisions--- about leaving for London and when he feels LG is over her head and unable to make decisions. LG's way, aggravated by being hormonal and exhausted and insecure, is to be resentful and snippy. Those of us looking on see that it is emotional/ physical reassurance she needs. Clearly she too has her own issues arising from being deserted and unloved and if anything, she needs more support, not less. But she is a darling woman, warm, beautiful, caring and with a lovely nature. Come on, she's suffering now. That's the Louisa DM sees. I think Martin is willing to take her no matter what baggage she comes with, with the exception of not wanting to make her unhappy. His sighs at the end of ep. 6 showed me that he recognizes that she is unhappy. I know that Eleanor is an unreliable, self-involved woman who is not going to change her stripes, but I think Louisa feels from Eleanor the validation that she is entitled to be with a man who makes her feel loved. And does Louisa have anyone else or anywhere else to turn? Really she's alone. She doesn't have a therapist/friend or other relative to help her sort these things out.
And finally, with all the criticisms being made, I believe LG is his redemption. She is a wonderful woman with flaws. She needs ME as much as he needs her, and she realizes she will have to do most of the accepting. ME is, as L said in 2/8, rock solid, ME all the way through. LG and ME argued from day 1. Probably they'll be doing it forever. That's their MO. They stimulate each other and in many ways GET each other. They just don't GET themselves. I hope we'll all be around to watch them grow stronger as a family by expressing their love for each other and letting that give them the strength and confidence to make a happy, loving home for themselves and their child. Like the fan in Dorset said, I just hope it's before I die.
I think Doc Martin will get to have the last word since it is the finale of his show. But, I agree, once again, that Louisa must be given an opportunity to speak about how she feels about him and their relationship. Even if it's not to him.
Sipowitz on NYPD Blue was a miserable guy like DM. He married twice and had a kid, but the show did not lose it's edge. He was still as hard and cranky with his police work but had a different relationship with his family. He was still miserable bugger with his wives at times and things would get messy. So it can be done successfully if the producers are careful to make it work. I think BP could do it, too.
Loved Sipowitz on NYPD Blue! You're right. I remember when he first met his future wife and called her a name.
That was the theme of OPRAH's show this week. Don't think the person you care for will be different from the one they are showing you.
Martin has always been Martin. I think after the first few series Louisa realized this is who he is. Even at the end of this last episode 7, when he's been a little more gentle, when he calls her name and she expects, perhaps, something softer, and gets instead, "please ask them to switch off the music"... her "Yes, Martin" shows that she's sees she's got the real Martin there. The thing that got to her (in episode 6) is that as much as she wants them to be together, she doesn't think she can live with it, if he's isn't able to change. She's very unhappy. She can't delude herself that there's a new guy under the skin. Everyone sees that he is trying to be a good father to JH and a 'companion' (or whatever) to Louisa. He is not keyed into other people's emotions and he just doesn't know how to do it. He kept on speaking about the egg, when she was obviously speaking about the relationship. (Where's Dr. Milligan when you need him?) With all due respect to AR, I don't think she's suitable to give help. Firstly, she's an Ellingham and her life is devoid of personal relationships (except with AL who's young enough to be her son) and second I don't think she really understands the depth of the love they feel for each other despite the fact that they're so bad at expressing it. Martin's parents were vile and they didn't love each other or their son. Making a comparison between DM/LG and CE and his wife shows a total lack of insight into the nature of M/L's relationship. DM's way to operate is to just get on with things and make unilateral decisions--- about leaving for London and when he feels LG is over her head and unable to make decisions. LG's way, aggravated by being hormonal and exhausted and insecure, is to be resentful and snippy. Those of us looking on see that it is emotional/ physical reassurance she needs. Clearly she too has her own issues arising from being deserted and unloved and if anything, she needs more support, not less. But she is a darling woman, warm, beautiful, caring and with a lovely nature. Come on, she's suffering now. That's the Louisa DM sees. I think Martin is willing to take her no matter what baggage she comes with, with the exception of not wanting to make her unhappy. His sighs at the end of ep. 6 showed me that he recognizes that she is unhappy. I know that Eleanor is an unreliable, self-involved woman who is not going to change her stripes, but I think Louisa feels from Eleanor the validation that she is entitled to be with a man who makes her feel loved. And does Louisa have anyone else or anywhere else to turn? Really she's alone. She doesn't have a therapist/friend or other relative to help her sort these things out.
And finally, with all the criticisms being made, I believe LG is his redemption. She is a wonderful woman with flaws. She needs ME as much as he needs her, and she realizes she will have to do most of the accepting. ME is, as L said in 2/8, rock solid, ME all the way through. LG and ME argued from day 1. Probably they'll be doing it forever. That's their MO. They stimulate each other and in many ways GET each other. They just don't GET themselves. I hope we'll all be around to watch them grow stronger as a family by expressing their love for each other and letting that give them the strength and confidence to make a happy, loving home for themselves and their child. Like the fan in Dorset said, I just hope it's before I die.
They should hire you as a consultant for this show because you really "get" it - maybe more than the writers.
That was the theme of OPRAH's show this week. Don't think the person you care for will be different from the one they are showing you.
Martin has always been Martin. I think after the first few series Louisa realized this is who he is. Even at the end of this last episode 7, when he's been a little more gentle, when he calls her name and she expects, perhaps, something softer, and gets instead, "please ask them to switch off the music"... her "Yes, Martin" shows that she's sees she's got the real Martin there. The thing that got to her (in episode 6) is that as much as she wants them to be together, she doesn't think she can live with it, if he's isn't able to change. She's very unhappy. She can't delude herself that there's a new guy under the skin. Everyone sees that he is trying to be a good father to JH and a 'companion' (or whatever) to Louisa. He is not keyed into other people's emotions and he just doesn't know how to do it. He kept on speaking about the egg, when she was obviously speaking about the relationship. (Where's Dr. Milligan when you need him?) With all due respect to AR, I don't think she's suitable to give help. Firstly, she's an Ellingham and her life is devoid of personal relationships (except with AL who's young enough to be her son) and second I don't think she really understands the depth of the love they feel for each other despite the fact that they're so bad at expressing it. Martin's parents were vile and they didn't love each other or their son. Making a comparison between DM/LG and CE and his wife shows a total lack of insight into the nature of M/L's relationship. DM's way to operate is to just get on with things and make unilateral decisions--- about leaving for London and when he feels LG is over her head and unable to make decisions. LG's way, aggravated by being hormonal and exhausted and insecure, is to be resentful and snippy. Those of us looking on see that it is emotional/ physical reassurance she needs. Clearly she too has her own issues arising from being deserted and unloved and if anything, she needs more support, not less. But she is a darling woman, warm, beautiful, caring and with a lovely nature. Come on, she's suffering now. That's the Louisa DM sees. I think Martin is willing to take her no matter what baggage she comes with, with the exception of not wanting to make her unhappy. His sighs at the end of ep. 6 showed me that he recognizes that she is unhappy. I know that Eleanor is an unreliable, self-involved woman who is not going to change her stripes, but I think Louisa feels from Eleanor the validation that she is entitled to be with a man who makes her feel loved. And does Louisa have anyone else or anywhere else to turn? Really she's alone. She doesn't have a therapist/friend or other relative to help her sort these things out.
And finally, with all the criticisms being made, I believe LG is his redemption. She is a wonderful woman with flaws. She needs ME as much as he needs her, and she realizes she will have to do most of the accepting. ME is, as L said in 2/8, rock solid, ME all the way through. LG and ME argued from day 1. Probably they'll be doing it forever. That's their MO. They stimulate each other and in many ways GET each other. They just don't GET themselves. I hope we'll all be around to watch them grow stronger as a family by expressing their love for each other and letting that give them the strength and confidence to make a happy, loving home for themselves and their child. Like the fan in Dorset said, I just hope it's before I die.
Thank you for this post!
I think Martin is torn about going to London now. Maybe from the time she left him. But I think he became even more ambivalent about it after performing surgery didn't give him the same feeling inside of him that he expected it would. It was not fun, and it may have been fun for him at one time in his life, he probably did enjoy it back in the day. I don't think Louisa's question was all that off base.
Aunt Ruth has an emotional attachment to her nephew, so she cannot be impartial to him or Louisa. Her heart will always rule when it comes to him, and she will want to protect Martin from getting hurt.
I think Martin is torn about going to London now. Maybe from the time she left him. But I think he became even more ambivalent about it after performing surgery didn't give him the same feeling inside of him that he expected it would. It was not fun, and it may have been fun for him at one time in his life, he probably did enjoy it back in the day. I don't think Louisa's question was all that off base.
Aunt Ruth has an emotional attachment to her nephew, so she cannot be impartial to him or Louisa. Her heart will always rule when it comes to him, and she will want to protect Martin from getting hurt.
I agree with you about Martin's response to the surgery. It wouldn't be the pinnacle of his life that he thought he aspired to, now that he has the chance of a "real" life. But as for AR -- really, does she even know Martin that well? I think she understands him as a doctor and the product of his family, but I don't see her really understanding the fact that he has a profound love and attachment to L and JH. I don't think she's ever felt a love like that. That is life-changing.
I agree with you about Martin's response to the surgery. It wouldn't be the pinnacle of his life that he thought he aspired to, now that he has the chance of a "real" life. But as for AR -- really, does she even know Martin that well? I think she understands him as a doctor and the product of his family, but I don't see her really understanding the fact that he has a profound love and attachment to L and JH. I don't think she's ever felt a love like that. That is life-changing.
Agree with that -- and previous post.
But -- one reservation. It has to do with the meaning of "change." People may not be able to make major personality reorganizations very few have the means, opportunity or motivation to do so. However, I do think that with some improved communication skills -- and these are behavioral, rational, and above all, teachable, enough could be different so that they could rock along together. But LG will have to do the teaching, and I suspect she is willing --
BTW -- he HAS in fact change -- blood phobia is gone, and he did that work himself. It can be done.
Ii don't think they've every given it a real try -- where they talked about how they feel about each other, what has gone wrong, and what each can do differently. If they had, there wouldn't be a S5 of course! But since they haven't done that yet, I think their love for each other deserves (and will get) that kind of effort. (Off-screen, probably).
Yes, -- he is suffering FOR her as much as for himself. I continue to think that the question has to be be: can he find it within himself to see that he CAN learn to make her happy. And I don't deny the LG has similar thought process to go through -- just not as interested in her development, for some reason, as in Martin's.
Maybe part of the way he was looking at her in the last scene was recognizing that she was fishing for an opening and his look was saying why do you want me to hurt you again. And that may have contributed to his speedy refusal to go to BErt's.
Remember the old serenity prayer -- God grant me the serenity to accept the things that cannot be changed, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
YEs, imo AR truly doesn't get it. She's not played a constructive role, has she. I hope for better in E8.
I agree with you about Martin's response to the surgery. It wouldn't be the pinnacle of his life that he thought he aspired to, now that he has the chance of a "real" life. But as for AR -- really, does she even know Martin that well? I think she understands him as a doctor and the product of his family, but I don't see her really understanding the fact that he has a profound love and attachment to L and JH. I don't think she's ever felt a love like that. That is life-changing.
You have to understand, I have to hold myself back in my criticism of Aunt Ruth. I have sort of excoriated her in some of my previous posts and promised myself that I wouldn't go there again. No, she doesn't know him, she has not experienced love, she doesn't have child and doesn't seem interested in James even though he is her own flesh and blood, she is socially isolated... I gotta stop...
I agree with you about Eleanor. I didn't mind her as much as a lot of others, but now I have realized that she is toxic for Louisa and her relationship with Martin. If it were real life, Louisa could meet her in Truro for coffee a couple of times a year to catch up. That is about all Louisa should see of her.
After Martin's success with overcoming his blood phobia using the techniques Dr. Miligan gave him, wouldn't it be great if LG and ME could have a conversation to discuss how they could improve their communication skills with each other and perhaps get some therapy - either from Dr. M. or a pastoral counselor. Surely each would like their relationship to be more loving. Gosh, there are so many great suggestions in the fanfiction --( you guys rock!) How about having the show's writers taking a look at them!
There are so many other possible story lines to follow that show our favorite grouch being as grumpy as ever - - which wouldn't take away from the fact that DM and LG can learn to find a better way to show their love for each other. Because no matter how brilliant he is as a physician, really he only cares about L and JH anyway. He can be as rude and grumpy as he likes with anyone else. Throw TMILFH out, shout at everyone, but learn to speak gently to those you really love.
I am sorry but I do not agree. I think when the baby arrives is the perfect time to cement the romance, along with support and care of each other. It has to be the romance that is the determining factor that is keeping them together or they are just staying together for the sake of the baby which we are agreed, after hearing about his parents, is not the way to go.
There has been no romance. Even an episode called preserving the romance was showing that it was just what they weren't doing. There have been no longing looks, no touches. There have been some kind gestures - mostly on DM's part - the glasses of milk etc - but not a lot.
When I said that the birth of the baby had fundamentally changed the relationship between LG and DM, I did not mean to imply that romance was no longer possible. I think that the romance will, in fact, return sooner or later, probably beginning in the next episode.
The baby has changed the relationship in the sense that DM and LG for the first time have a major task in common - bringing up baby. This can actually be an opportunity for the relationship to grow in positive ways. It can also be an opportunity for them to get to know each other better - for better or worse.
They are no longer in an "infatuation" phase where their mutual attraction is based in part on the mystery of not really knowing each other very well. The baby will force them to grow as individuals and in the long run will hopefully strengthen the relationship as well,
But DM's parents DID NOT STAY TOGETHER FOR THE SAKE OF DM. They stayed together for their own selfish reasons. As far as they were concerned, he could have wandered off or have been kidnapped by a Mrs. T kind of person, and they would not have cared except where their reputation was concerned.
I don't think DM/LG would stay together for the sake of the baby but because having a child together and raising him should be a strong shared bond and goal that they really need, considering they don't have anything else in common besides a disfunctional childhood and a physical attraction ( or did at one time).
But as for AR -- really, does she even know Martin that well? I think she understands him as a doctor and the product of his family, but I don't see her really understanding the fact that he has a profound love and attachment to L and JH. I don't think she's ever felt a love like that. That is life-changing.[/QUOTE]
You have to understand, I have to hold myself back in my criticism of Aunt Ruth. I have sort of excoriated her in some of my previous posts and promised myself that I wouldn't go there again. No, she doesn't know him, she has not experienced love, she doesn't have child and doesn't seem interested in James even though he is her own flesh and blood, she is socially isolated... I gotta stop...
Do you remember the funeral scene in Episode 2 when AR was telling LG about her social awkwardness, and she was listing the various factors that had caused this, including "middle child syndrome."
She also mentioned a "series of quasi-sexual experiences at a very early age" as a negative factor.
When I first heard this, I wasn't sure what she might be referring to. But is it possible that she was abused as a young girl by a male relative?
Do you remember the funeral scene in Episode 2 when AR was telling LG about her social awkwardness, and she was listing the various factors that had caused this, including "middle child syndrome."
She also mentioned a "series of quasi-sexual experiences at a very early age" as a negative factor.
When I first heard this, I wasn't sure what she might be referring to. But is it possible that she was abused as a young girl by a male relative?
Maybe I'm reading too much into this.
No, you are probably right. But, since she feels that people can't change, I guess she applies that to herself. I pity her childhood, maybe it was even her father that happened with.
Sometimes things are a choice, and I think her way of thinking is a choice for her. But since she throws around advice and is a physician, I think she could have made better choices about how to interact with other people. Or, since she knows that about herself, she could have reached out and gotten help for these issues. Had she worked on herself, she would be more sympathetic to Louisa and Martin, and would be in a better position to give them the kind of help they want and need.
But she is old school and she is doing the best she can, and her heart is in the right place. She is not malicious or manipulative like Eleanor. She is offering to help in the way that she knows how to help. He seemed to respond well to her advice in his office, and he is the one whom she is working with, so who am I to judge.
I just get a really good vibe from AR – She definitely feels the tension between LG & DM – The scuttled wedding & surprize pregnancy were common knowledge before her arrival in Portwenn – when she asked LG if they were going to attempt another wedding (you look the type) LG’s response was “It’s complicated”. At this point all she has to go on is a awkward relationship that still exists because now there is Sweet Baby James. When LG expressed an interest in DM’s pictures, AR gathered others for her, so I see her as engaging LG not trying to push her away. The fact that AR doesn’t care for babies & doesn’t want to babysit doesn’t make her bad in my book. She is just being very honest that she is not a swaddler – she might enjoy children when they can talk and express themselves.
When AR was remarking about her youth I thought she was indicating that she had been promiscuous, being an attention-starved middle child, not necessarily sexually abused. However her father did sound rather formal, overly strict or detached. At any rate they were not a warm & expressive bunch.
Like any therapist I see her as having no other motive than to see each of them understand what makes themselves tick so they can make informed choices. Sometimes she’s just an aunt/friend, but more times than not I think she’s observing & questioning to stimulate LG& DM to think about their own well being. The fact that she came into the office to see Martin and offer help says that she is there to work it through. I think we haven’t heard the last of the Ellingham dirt, but I think AR will be agast when she hears his mother’s final cutting remarks to him. (This is where I miss AJ – she’d fly down to Portugal and “open a can of whoop-ass” on ol’ Marg)
As for Al I think AR has a maternal interest in him, not a sexual one. She was accustomed to working with criminals and he became one to save his father. His deep remorse redeemed him in her eyes and she is compelled to help him escape his fate. Since Mrs Large is AWOL I think AR is going to play that role for Al and help him thrive in spite of his inept dad.
I just get a really good vibe from AR – She definitely feels the tension between LG & DM – The scuttled wedding & surprize pregnancy were common knowledge before her arrival in Portwenn – when she asked LG if they were going to attempt another wedding (you look the type) LG’s response was “It’s complicated”. At this point all she has to go on is a awkward relationship that still exists because now there is Sweet Baby James. When LG expressed an interest in DM’s pictures, AR gathered others for her, so I see her as engaging LG not trying to push her away.
Like any therapist I see her as having no other motive than to see each of them understand what makes themselves tick so they can make informed choices. Sometimes she’s just an aunt/friend, but more times than not I think she’s observing & questioning to stimulate LG& DM to think about their own well being. The fact that she came into the office to see Martin and offer help says that she is there to work it through. I think we haven’t heard the last of the Ellingham dirt, but I think AR will be agast when she hears his mother’s final cutting remarks to him. (This is where I miss AJ – she’d fly down to Portugal and “open a can of whoop-ass” on ol’ Marg)
As for Al I think AR has a maternal interest in him, not a sexual one. She was accustomed to working with criminals and he became one to save his father. His deep remorse redeemed him in her eyes and she is compelled to help him escape his fate. Since Mrs Large is AWOL I think AR is going to play that role for Al and help him thrive in spite of his inept dad.
She's still an enigma to me. Her working with AL and the Mrs. Dunwich tells me she is genuine about helping people. Her comments about not staying together also seemed like she was trying to help by making him be certain about his reasons for him staying with her. Equally her comments to LG are provoking her to think whether she would really be happy in London with a man she may not want to spend her life with so her son could have a family. I agree with the reasons for bringing more photos to LG - to give him more insight in the man she is with. I also think that the line about not changing was telling LG not to partner up with ME hoping he'll change into something else (S3 finale strikes again)
That being said, the line about the Ellinghams staying together for DM's sake blew this out of water. It was patently untrue and lays the blame for their miserable marriage on his shoulders. (plus, they split up when he was in his 40s - even if she believed that was their motivation, they would have split the minute he was out on his own, not stayed together another 20 years when they had almost no contact with him. She clearly talked to AJ regularly enough to know the situation in PW when she arrived and she doesn't seem to be in contact with her brother - not knowing whether he was coming to the funeral - so she must know what a jerk he is and what a horrid woman Margaret was.)
I can understand her wanting to make sure they stay together for the right reasons for their own sakes, but that line just seemed unnecessarily cruel and a dirty play to get him to leave LG for good.
Just got this from an article in the Guardian about a parents educational qualifications having a more direct bearing on child development than marriage.
This was a comment from one of the readers :
BlueBug
19 July 2011 5:53PM
Stable, loving households have far more weight on childhood development than any other factor, bar none. One study proves nothing. 5000 years of human history proves everything. Millions of people who come from well educated, wealthy homes but who are neglected by parents have problems, sometimes very severe. At the other extreme, poor, uneducated people who have close knit families and who raise their children with kindness, love and encouragement have kids who grow up to be well adjusted adults. Education helps but is not the deciding factor.
My parents were at each others throats throughout my childhood. The abuse in our family was incredible (my father nearly beat my brother to death in front of us all, as one example). My brother killed himself four years ago. My sister takes SSRI's and has for 30 years, and I've spent decades in therapy and meditate regularly to keep focus on the present (successfully I am happy to say, at least most of the time).
I am blessed with a good wife who understands how trauma has affected me. I'm happy and doing well, and so is our marriage. Our beautiful child is raised in a loving and encouraging home and is thriving. Our marriage survives the bumps and difficulties and we count our blessings each day, embrace each other and pray a lot for guidance, which comes in many ways.
Love and encouragement is what matters to raise a happy and thriving child. Everything else follows
]When AR was remarking about her youth I thought she was indicating that she had been promiscuous, being an attention-starved middle child, not necessarily sexually abused. However her father did sound rather formal, overly strict or detached. At any rate they were not a warm & expressive bunch. [/QUOTE]
AR's exact words were:
"My upbringing gifted me with a chronic case of social awkwardness - middle child syndrome, distant mother, overbearing father, and a series of quasi-sexual encounters at a very early age. I either alienate or overshare.."
It doesn't seem likely to me that she would use the phrase "series of quasi-sexual enconters" to describe promiscuous bahavior. A pattern of sexual abuse would seem a more likely explanation.
Also, why would she refer to promiscuity as something that might contribute to social awkwardness or a tendency to alienate people?
It seems more likely that she is talking about encounters that were psychologically damaging to her in some way.
Perhaps if AR and DM ever have the "big conversation" about the LG/DM relationship, she will open up to DM about her own childhood and may reveal some of the Ellingham "family secrets."
That being said, the line about the Ellinghams staying together for DM's sake blew this out of water. It was patently untrue and lays the blame for their miserable marriage on his shoulders. (plus, they split up when he was in his 40s - even if she believed that was their motivation, they would have split the minute he was out on his own, not stayed together another 20 years when they had almost no contact with him. She clearly talked to AJ regularly enough to know the situation in PW when she arrived and she doesn't seem to be in contact with her brother - not knowing whether he was coming to the funeral - so she must know what a jerk he is and what a horrid woman Margaret was.)
I can understand her wanting to make sure they stay together for the right reasons for their own sakes, but that line just seemed unnecessarily cruel and a dirty play to get him to leave LG for good.
Thanks for your post. I knew her line about his parents' marriage bugged me more than just the fact that it wasn't true. It is placing the blame on him and that was unfair and unthinking. I guess that is what blew her credibility out of the water. He seemed appreciative of her insights, though. Maybe she was just trying to drive the point home, but it just doesn't sit well with me.
Discussing boarding school w/ him while it was clearly uncomfortable for Louisa was snobbish and insensitive, too. It was like she and Martin are in a exclusive club that Louisa doesn't belong to.
I think they both know what they want. The women at the baby shower were dissing Martin to Louisa's face, and she stood up for him. I don't think his Aunt Ruth will have that much sway over his ultimate decision about his relationship with Louisa.
Comments
I sure hope next weeks ep isn't the ruination of this character, she is one of my faves. I hate to say it but I like watching the old episodes much more than this current series. So much more enjoyable watching a show with a lighter feel.
I emailed KCET yet again last week and yet again got no response. :mad: Mr. Zachery said the footage they shot over the summer would begin airing in October. Um....
The only evidence is a short little begging for bucks bit they run before and after Doc. It's MC, loose tie, thanking viewers for watching DM and KCET. Glad you enjoy watching as much as we enjoy making, please give, etc.,..or I will shoot your dog. I mean it. Then he laughs and looks around to make sure everyone gets the joke and a few people behind him laugh.
Don't get this Alestorm
No not saying that exactly SimplyRed but DM's/LG's relationship is just too far-fetched to be believable now and it needn't have been that way. That's my beef! I'm loving the AR/Al intrigue; Morwenna; Bert as usual and particularly Penhale but DM and LG's behaviour is fast losing the wonderful charm built up over the four preceeding series. If they continue being the way they are to each other I don't think I'm going to care what becomes of them anymore...and I really don't want it to be like that.
I think Doc Martin will get to have the last word since it is the finale of his show. But, I agree, once again, that Louisa must be given an opportunity to speak about how she feels about him and their relationship. Even if it's not to him.
Sipowitz on NYPD Blue was a miserable guy like DM. He married twice and had a kid, but the show did not lose it's edge. He was still as hard and cranky with his police work but had a different relationship with his family. He was still miserable bugger with his wives at times and things would get messy. So it can be done successfully if the producers are careful to make it work. I think BP could do it, too.
Martin has always been Martin. I think after the first few series Louisa realized this is who he is. Even at the end of this last episode 7, when he's been a little more gentle, when he calls her name and she expects, perhaps, something softer, and gets instead, "please ask them to switch off the music"... her "Yes, Martin" shows that she's sees she's got the real Martin there. The thing that got to her (in episode 6) is that as much as she wants them to be together, she doesn't think she can live with it, if he's isn't able to change. She's very unhappy. She can't delude herself that there's a new guy under the skin. Everyone sees that he is trying to be a good father to JH and a 'companion' (or whatever) to Louisa. He is not keyed into other people's emotions and he just doesn't know how to do it. He kept on speaking about the egg, when she was obviously speaking about the relationship. (Where's Dr. Milligan when you need him?) With all due respect to AR, I don't think she's suitable to give help. Firstly, she's an Ellingham and her life is devoid of personal relationships (except with AL who's young enough to be her son) and second I don't think she really understands the depth of the love they feel for each other despite the fact that they're so bad at expressing it. Martin's parents were vile and they didn't love each other or their son. Making a comparison between DM/LG and CE and his wife shows a total lack of insight into the nature of M/L's relationship. DM's way to operate is to just get on with things and make unilateral decisions--- about leaving for London and when he feels LG is over her head and unable to make decisions. LG's way, aggravated by being hormonal and exhausted and insecure, is to be resentful and snippy. Those of us looking on see that it is emotional/ physical reassurance she needs. Clearly she too has her own issues arising from being deserted and unloved and if anything, she needs more support, not less. But she is a darling woman, warm, beautiful, caring and with a lovely nature. Come on, she's suffering now. That's the Louisa DM sees. I think Martin is willing to take her no matter what baggage she comes with, with the exception of not wanting to make her unhappy. His sighs at the end of ep. 6 showed me that he recognizes that she is unhappy. I know that Eleanor is an unreliable, self-involved woman who is not going to change her stripes, but I think Louisa feels from Eleanor the validation that she is entitled to be with a man who makes her feel loved. And does Louisa have anyone else or anywhere else to turn? Really she's alone. She doesn't have a therapist/friend or other relative to help her sort these things out.
And finally, with all the criticisms being made, I believe LG is his redemption. She is a wonderful woman with flaws. She needs ME as much as he needs her, and she realizes she will have to do most of the accepting. ME is, as L said in 2/8, rock solid, ME all the way through. LG and ME argued from day 1. Probably they'll be doing it forever. That's their MO. They stimulate each other and in many ways GET each other. They just don't GET themselves. I hope we'll all be around to watch them grow stronger as a family by expressing their love for each other and letting that give them the strength and confidence to make a happy, loving home for themselves and their child. Like the fan in Dorset said, I just hope it's before I die.
Thank you for this post!
I think Martin is torn about going to London now. Maybe from the time she left him. But I think he became even more ambivalent about it after performing surgery didn't give him the same feeling inside of him that he expected it would. It was not fun, and it may have been fun for him at one time in his life, he probably did enjoy it back in the day. I don't think Louisa's question was all that off base.
Aunt Ruth has an emotional attachment to her nephew, so she cannot be impartial to him or Louisa. Her heart will always rule when it comes to him, and she will want to protect Martin from getting hurt.
I agree with you about Martin's response to the surgery. It wouldn't be the pinnacle of his life that he thought he aspired to, now that he has the chance of a "real" life. But as for AR -- really, does she even know Martin that well? I think she understands him as a doctor and the product of his family, but I don't see her really understanding the fact that he has a profound love and attachment to L and JH. I don't think she's ever felt a love like that. That is life-changing.
Agree with that -- and previous post.
But -- one reservation. It has to do with the meaning of "change." People may not be able to make major personality reorganizations very few have the means, opportunity or motivation to do so. However, I do think that with some improved communication skills -- and these are behavioral, rational, and above all, teachable, enough could be different so that they could rock along together. But LG will have to do the teaching, and I suspect she is willing --
BTW -- he HAS in fact change -- blood phobia is gone, and he did that work himself. It can be done.
Ii don't think they've every given it a real try -- where they talked about how they feel about each other, what has gone wrong, and what each can do differently. If they had, there wouldn't be a S5 of course! But since they haven't done that yet, I think their love for each other deserves (and will get) that kind of effort. (Off-screen, probably).
Yes, -- he is suffering FOR her as much as for himself. I continue to think that the question has to be be: can he find it within himself to see that he CAN learn to make her happy. And I don't deny the LG has similar thought process to go through -- just not as interested in her development, for some reason, as in Martin's.
Maybe part of the way he was looking at her in the last scene was recognizing that she was fishing for an opening and his look was saying why do you want me to hurt you again. And that may have contributed to his speedy refusal to go to BErt's.
Remember the old serenity prayer -- God grant me the serenity to accept the things that cannot be changed, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
YEs, imo AR truly doesn't get it. She's not played a constructive role, has she. I hope for better in E8.
You have to understand, I have to hold myself back in my criticism of Aunt Ruth. I have sort of excoriated her in some of my previous posts and promised myself that I wouldn't go there again. No, she doesn't know him, she has not experienced love, she doesn't have child and doesn't seem interested in James even though he is her own flesh and blood, she is socially isolated... I gotta stop...
I agree with you about Eleanor. I didn't mind her as much as a lot of others, but now I have realized that she is toxic for Louisa and her relationship with Martin. If it were real life, Louisa could meet her in Truro for coffee a couple of times a year to catch up. That is about all Louisa should see of her.
There are so many other possible story lines to follow that show our favorite grouch being as grumpy as ever - - which wouldn't take away from the fact that DM and LG can learn to find a better way to show their love for each other. Because no matter how brilliant he is as a physician, really he only cares about L and JH anyway. He can be as rude and grumpy as he likes with anyone else. Throw TMILFH out, shout at everyone, but learn to speak gently to those you really love.
When I said that the birth of the baby had fundamentally changed the relationship between LG and DM, I did not mean to imply that romance was no longer possible. I think that the romance will, in fact, return sooner or later, probably beginning in the next episode.
The baby has changed the relationship in the sense that DM and LG for the first time have a major task in common - bringing up baby. This can actually be an opportunity for the relationship to grow in positive ways. It can also be an opportunity for them to get to know each other better - for better or worse.
They are no longer in an "infatuation" phase where their mutual attraction is based in part on the mystery of not really knowing each other very well. The baby will force them to grow as individuals and in the long run will hopefully strengthen the relationship as well,
I don't think DM/LG would stay together for the sake of the baby but because having a child together and raising him should be a strong shared bond and goal that they really need, considering they don't have anything else in common besides a disfunctional childhood and a physical attraction ( or did at one time).
When AR was remarking about her youth I thought she was indicating that she had been promiscuous, being an attention-starved middle child, not necessarily sexually abused. However her father did sound rather formal, overly strict or detached. At any rate they were not a warm & expressive bunch.
Like any therapist I see her as having no other motive than to see each of them understand what makes themselves tick so they can make informed choices. Sometimes she’s just an aunt/friend, but more times than not I think she’s observing & questioning to stimulate LG& DM to think about their own well being. The fact that she came into the office to see Martin and offer help says that she is there to work it through. I think we haven’t heard the last of the Ellingham dirt, but I think AR will be agast when she hears his mother’s final cutting remarks to him. (This is where I miss AJ – she’d fly down to Portugal and “open a can of whoop-ass” on ol’ Marg)
As for Al I think AR has a maternal interest in him, not a sexual one. She was accustomed to working with criminals and he became one to save his father. His deep remorse redeemed him in her eyes and she is compelled to help him escape his fate. Since Mrs Large is AWOL I think AR is going to play that role for Al and help him thrive in spite of his inept dad.
She's still an enigma to me. Her working with AL and the Mrs. Dunwich tells me she is genuine about helping people. Her comments about not staying together also seemed like she was trying to help by making him be certain about his reasons for him staying with her. Equally her comments to LG are provoking her to think whether she would really be happy in London with a man she may not want to spend her life with so her son could have a family. I agree with the reasons for bringing more photos to LG - to give him more insight in the man she is with. I also think that the line about not changing was telling LG not to partner up with ME hoping he'll change into something else (S3 finale strikes again)
That being said, the line about the Ellinghams staying together for DM's sake blew this out of water. It was patently untrue and lays the blame for their miserable marriage on his shoulders. (plus, they split up when he was in his 40s - even if she believed that was their motivation, they would have split the minute he was out on his own, not stayed together another 20 years when they had almost no contact with him. She clearly talked to AJ regularly enough to know the situation in PW when she arrived and she doesn't seem to be in contact with her brother - not knowing whether he was coming to the funeral - so she must know what a jerk he is and what a horrid woman Margaret was.)
I can understand her wanting to make sure they stay together for the right reasons for their own sakes, but that line just seemed unnecessarily cruel and a dirty play to get him to leave LG for good.
This was a comment from one of the readers :
BlueBug
19 July 2011 5:53PM
Stable, loving households have far more weight on childhood development than any other factor, bar none. One study proves nothing. 5000 years of human history proves everything. Millions of people who come from well educated, wealthy homes but who are neglected by parents have problems, sometimes very severe. At the other extreme, poor, uneducated people who have close knit families and who raise their children with kindness, love and encouragement have kids who grow up to be well adjusted adults. Education helps but is not the deciding factor.
My parents were at each others throats throughout my childhood. The abuse in our family was incredible (my father nearly beat my brother to death in front of us all, as one example). My brother killed himself four years ago. My sister takes SSRI's and has for 30 years, and I've spent decades in therapy and meditate regularly to keep focus on the present (successfully I am happy to say, at least most of the time).
I am blessed with a good wife who understands how trauma has affected me. I'm happy and doing well, and so is our marriage. Our beautiful child is raised in a loving and encouraging home and is thriving. Our marriage survives the bumps and difficulties and we count our blessings each day, embrace each other and pray a lot for guidance, which comes in many ways.
Love and encouragement is what matters to raise a happy and thriving child. Everything else follows
You can certainly see DM...
]When AR was remarking about her youth I thought she was indicating that she had been promiscuous, being an attention-starved middle child, not necessarily sexually abused. However her father did sound rather formal, overly strict or detached. At any rate they were not a warm & expressive bunch. [/QUOTE]
AR's exact words were:
"My upbringing gifted me with a chronic case of social awkwardness - middle child syndrome, distant mother, overbearing father, and a series of quasi-sexual encounters at a very early age. I either alienate or overshare.."
It doesn't seem likely to me that she would use the phrase "series of quasi-sexual enconters" to describe promiscuous bahavior. A pattern of sexual abuse would seem a more likely explanation.
Also, why would she refer to promiscuity as something that might contribute to social awkwardness or a tendency to alienate people?
It seems more likely that she is talking about encounters that were psychologically damaging to her in some way.
Perhaps if AR and DM ever have the "big conversation" about the LG/DM relationship, she will open up to DM about her own childhood and may reveal some of the Ellingham "family secrets."
Thanks for your post. I knew her line about his parents' marriage bugged me more than just the fact that it wasn't true. It is placing the blame on him and that was unfair and unthinking. I guess that is what blew her credibility out of the water. He seemed appreciative of her insights, though. Maybe she was just trying to drive the point home, but it just doesn't sit well with me.
Discussing boarding school w/ him while it was clearly uncomfortable for Louisa was snobbish and insensitive, too. It was like she and Martin are in a exclusive club that Louisa doesn't belong to.
I think they both know what they want. The women at the baby shower were dissing Martin to Louisa's face, and she stood up for him. I don't think his Aunt Ruth will have that much sway over his ultimate decision about his relationship with Louisa.