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BBC AM Frequencies

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 46
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As the BBC seem to be preparing to switch off their AM frequencies, I wonder what will happen to these said frequencies?

As the digital switch is still a long way off and as AM can still make money will these frequencies be offered to be re-advertised?
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    jimbojimbo Posts: 16,289
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    To be honest I wish they would switch them off but it appears or at least I have not seen any evidence to suggest BBC switch off of medium wave given that the trial that took place in November/December seemed nbot to prove anything.

    all services came back on air again which seems to defeat the object.
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    hanssolohanssolo Posts: 22,670
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    Ofcom have said they will not licence any new analogue commercial stations but will grant some AM frequencies for community radio, in some areas there are no or few suitable FM frequencies.
    The ex BBC AM frequencies like 648 any any released from local radio may be reused for community stations.

    But 3 stations (Greenwich Kasapah, Generation and Streetlife) which got potentially valuable AM licences in London returned the licences.
    http://radiotoday.co.uk/round2/
    It could be as finding suitable low cost masts and locations for AM is problematic, local domestic interference to AM is increasing, many new sets do not have AM, and music is not good on AM?
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    Colin_LondonColin_London Posts: 12,716
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    Launching a station on AM in a city is suicide, particularly if you are trying to target a younger audience. I can imagine that reality hit those stations that handed back the licences.
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    mfrmfr Posts: 5,625
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    Launching a station on AM in a city is suicide, particularly if you are trying to target a younger audience. I can imagine that reality hit those stations that handed back the licences.

    I can't imagine any community station, except perhaps a religious one, could make AM work. Celtic music radio switched from AM to FM in Glasgow.
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    Vince800Vince800 Posts: 678
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    From the trials which have been done so far it doesn't seem as the BBC Local AM stations are going anywhere any time soon, it would be interesting to find out which information they gathered if any.
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    Anthony_RyanAnthony_Ryan Posts: 445
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    Launching a station on AM in a city is suicide, particularly if you are trying to target a younger audience. I can imagine that reality hit those stations that handed back the licences.

    AM Radio appears to be doing well in the USA. Proving that people will listen on any waveband as long as the programmes are good.
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    hanssolohanssolo Posts: 22,670
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    AM Radio appears to be doing well in the USA. Proving that people will listen on any waveband as long as the programmes are good.
    Not acording to the New York Times, Most music and Sport stations have left AM due to FM and Sirus competition and rising domestic consumer interference with only the right wing talk stations (fortunately not allowed here) keeping AM alive.
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/09/us/a-quest-to-save-am-radio-before-its-lost-in-the-static.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
    There is the possibility of HD digital revitalising AM, but is also struggling
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    ResonanceResonance Posts: 16,644
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    jimbo wrote: »
    To be honest I wish they would switch them off but it appears or at least I have not seen any evidence to suggest BBC switch off of medium wave given that the trial that took place in November/December seemed nbot to prove anything.

    all services came back on air again which seems to defeat the object.

    Why do you wish they'd be switched off? How does it adversely effect you :confused:
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    ShimanoShimano Posts: 603
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    Resonance wrote: »
    Why do you wish they'd be switched off? How does it adversely effect (sic) you :confused:

    My thoughts exactly :)
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    Vince800Vince800 Posts: 678
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    Sometimes they can be quite useful for out of area listening. I know that you're not supposed to do this but since you can why not. Sometimes for example I prefer to listen to BBC Cambridgeshire instead of 3CR or BBC Essex for Sue Marchant etc.

    It gives you a bit more choice so I don't know why anyone would want them to be switched off if it isn't affecting them. Of course if the BBC do decide to switch them off at some point then that's just the way it is, but I couldn't care less if they continue it doesn't really matter, it's not as if the frequencies are going to be used by a different station after the BBC are finished with them.
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    kevkev Posts: 21,075
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    Resonance wrote: »
    Why do you wish they'd be switched off? How does it adversely effect you :confused:

    Our licence fee payments being wasted on providing a few Scousers with reception of BBC Merseyside across North Wales and little else.... (Obviously some of the stations will have value in MW transmitters being kept outside the towns to serve parts of there coverage area - but even then an FM filler or two might be able to do the job better).
    To be honest I wish they would switch them off but it appears or at least I have not seen any evidence to suggest BBC switch off of medium wave given that the trial that took place in November/December seemed nbot to prove anything.

    all services came back on air again which seems to defeat the object.
    The intention was they would come back so they can judge the response to the turn off and decide on appropriate action - i.e. no one moaned so we can turn it off once sports rights expire in the summer, we've identified one town with problems so we'll take a look at an FM filler, or the north of the county has rubbish reception across large parts of the area so we'll need to keep that MW transmitter but can turn the one covering countytown off.
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    ResonanceResonance Posts: 16,644
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    kev wrote: »
    Our licence fee payments being wasted on providing a few Scousers with reception of BBC Merseyside across North Wales and little else.... (Obviously some of the stations will have value in MW transmitters being kept outside the towns to serve parts of there coverage area - but even then an FM filler or two might be able to do the job better).

    In the grand scheme of the BBC budget it's not worth worrying about.
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    DigMorrisDigMorris Posts: 451
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    Resonance wrote: »
    In the grand scheme of the BBC budget it's not worth worrying about.

    The problem is that transmitting AM is not cheap, it's considerably more expensive than FM or DAB due to its power requirements. The electricity bills are gigantic.

    Now, that is no problem if millions of people listen to it as you're talking about spreading a power bill upwards of a million pounds a year over millions of users*. However, with AM listenership declining (due to better alternatives available, fewer radios supporting it, young people not even knowing what AM is) the same annual bill will have to be spent on an increasingly small group. There comes a time it just doesn't make sense to spend license fee money on such a small group. Somewhere you have to draw the line. Is it OK to spend a million pounds a year on 100.000 listeners? And 50.000 listeners? 10.000 listeners? And how many of those people would only have to switch their radio to FM or DAB to continue listening?

    Just like many other broadcasters in Europe, the BBC has seen the writing on the wall for AM and are obviously making plans to shut them down in due course.

    *
    The Dutch equivalent of the BBC was able to fund 14 (!) additional DAB+ transmitters by shutting down their last remaining AM transmission (747) two years earlier than originally planned. It saves them €1.2 million annually, almost entirely spent on the 3 million kWh electricity bill.
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    80sfan80sfan Posts: 18,522
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    What is Radio Merseyside's FM signal like along the North Wales coast, just out of interest?
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    wavy-davywavy-davy Posts: 7,122
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    80sfan wrote: »
    What is Radio Merseyside's FM signal like along the North Wales coast, just out of interest?

    Very patchy due to all the hills.
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    Colin_LondonColin_London Posts: 12,716
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    wavy-davy wrote: »
    Very patchy due to all the hills.

    Radio Merseyside doesn't serve North Wales. All those English who have moved there should assimilate and listen to Radio Wales.
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    ResonanceResonance Posts: 16,644
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    DigMorris wrote: »
    The problem is that transmitting AM is not cheap, it's considerably more expensive than FM or DAB due to its power requirements. The electricity bills are gigantic.

    Now, that is no problem if millions of people listen to it as you're talking about spreading a power bill upwards of a million pounds a year over millions of users*. However, with AM listenership declining (due to better alternatives available, fewer radios supporting it, young people not even knowing what AM is) the same annual bill will have to be spent on an increasingly small group. There comes a time it just doesn't make sense to spend license fee money on such a small group. Somewhere you have to draw the line. Is it OK to spend a million pounds a year on 100.000 listeners? And 50.000 listeners? 10.000 listeners? And how many of those people would only have to switch their radio to FM or DAB to continue listening?

    Just like many other broadcasters in Europe, the BBC has seen the writing on the wall for AM and are obviously making plans to shut them down in due course.

    *
    The Dutch equivalent of the BBC was able to fund 14 (!) additional DAB+ transmitters by shutting down their last remaining AM transmission (747) two years earlier than originally planned. It saves them €1.2 million annually, almost entirely spent on the 3 million kWh electricity bill.

    When talking about BBC local radio the AM transmitters are usually no more powerful than the FM transmitters. 0.5kW-1kW is typical. The same power often gets you much more coverage for your money than of FM.

    In fact with BBC local stations there are often more FM transmitters, running more power and consuming more electricity than their AM counterparts.
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,896
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    Resonance wrote: »
    When talking about BBC local radio the AM transmitters are usually no more powerful than the FM transmitters. 0.5kW-1kW is typical. The same power often gets you much more coverage for your money than of FM.

    In fact with BBC local stations there are often more FM transmitters, running more power and consuming more electricity than their AM counterparts.

    But hardly anyone listens to BBC local radio on AM, apart from some stations which have not got adequate FM coverage, The BBC identified some of those in their initial DQF report and some made representations after that, BBC Radio Cumbria for example.

    "The BBC's hopes of saving money by switching off local radio broadcasts on AM came unstuck in Liverpool when 600 listeners complained about the loss of their medium-wave service." The Guardian, 9/11/12

    What they didn't tell you was that BBC Radio Merseyside's reach in its editorial area at the time was 322,000 and that many of the complaints were from out of area listeners to sport.

    They didn't quote figures for any of the other stations in the first switch off trial. One of the BBC Radio Nottingham staff on the number you had to ring told someone who rang up that they hardly had any calls and she didn't think it would come back on air.

    The BBC Local Radio AM frequencies can then be released for community radio use, there have been some awards of AM community licences in the current round.

    Some of the AM transmitters are quite old as well.
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    80sfan80sfan Posts: 18,522
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    wavy-davy wrote: »
    Very patchy due to all the hills.

    Ah okay, thanks!!
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    OrangyOrangy Posts: 1,442
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    If switching off BBC LR AM in areas which are adequately covered by FM or DAB, helps speed up the local DAB buildout by freeing up funding, I say do it!

    The Beeb could split output on DAB if necessary for football coverage etc.

    The proportion of those within the primary editorial region of a BBC LR which is not adequately covered by FM or DAB must be limited to a handful of stations. BBC Surrey actually has far more appropriate and robust coverage on DAB than any other broadcasting platform for example.

    AM is a nightmare with so much interference. It's too late for the platform. Unfortuantely American style 10MHz spacing would have helped a bit, but that can't happen and coordinating with many countries isn't easy.

    Unless good reasons can be given for each station to stay on AM I think they should get on with it and start closing the broadcasts down as soon as possible to help pay for DAB.
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    Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,224
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    Orangy wrote: »
    American style 10MHz spacing would have helped a bit.
    The audio quality would be fantastic, and IBOC wouldn't splatter on to adjacent channels.

    Unfortunately there would only be one station... :D
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    OrangyOrangy Posts: 1,442
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    Oops typo there then!
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    omnidirectionalomnidirectional Posts: 18,822
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    MikeBr wrote: »
    What they didn't tell you was that BBC Radio Merseyside's reach in its editorial area at the time was 322,000 and that many of the complaints were from out of area listeners to sport..

    Who said they were out of area listeners? I know that listeners to the Rugby League coverage on AM were encouraged to complain on rugby forums/Facebook etc, as the DAB service sticks with FM half of the time even though it's supposed to carry the AM rugby opt-outs.

    I never heard anything about out of area listeners in North Wales also complaining. They're not really in to Rugby League anyway..
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    superbike999superbike999 Posts: 453
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    Radio Merseyside doesn't serve North Wales. All those English who have moved there should assimilate and listen to Radio Wales.

    Funnily enough, although I'm English and have no affinity to Wales, I enjoy some of the talk programs on Radio Wales, as an alternative to some of the dross on 5 live. I get a good signal on 882 AM at my location.
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,896
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    Who said they were out of area listeners? I know that listeners to the Rugby League coverage on AM were encouraged to complain on rugby forums/Facebook etc, as the DAB service sticks with FM half of the time even though it's supposed to carry the AM rugby opt-outs.

    I never heard anything about out of area listeners in North Wales also complaining. They're not really in to Rugby League anyway..

    That should have read "some of the complaints were from listeners who used AM for sport and others may well have been from out of area listeners.", it was mentioned in comments here and on the Guardian article.

    Even if they were all from the editorial area 600 listeners, many of whom only use AM for sport, doesn't justify maintaining an AM service nor the Guardian stating that all the callers were "outraged".
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