lorks a crikey. What a load of nut jobs, we seem so sane in comparison! It was so sad when Ianto died but for the love of God why all the violent threats and rhetoric.
lorks a crikey. What a load of nut jobs, we seem so sane in comparison! It was so sad when Ianto died but for the love of God why all the violent threats and rhetoric.
Yay for the sane DS Whovians!
DS almost certainly has a greater cross section of the viewing public than the dedicated DW/TW forums. The paucity of "Save Ianto" sentiment on here just goes to show how few people are getting themselves into a state about the death of the character.
Even Gallifrey Base only has a handful of campaigners amongst its huge membership. These people seem to retreat to their own little bubble on LiveJournal where they can all agree with other and pretend they represent the consensus of fandom. It doesn't seem to occur to them that they're a minority of a minority.
Wouldn't it be funny if (before COE aired) it was always RTDs intention to bring back Ianto in series 4, but now because of the loony bins he decides to leave him dead.
Ianto rocked, but to bring him back would not be a good move in my opinion.
I know I've used the words loony and nutter quite a lot, but I think we should tread carefully. Comments about "shaking hands" and "screaming in my head" suggest some of these people have severe mental health problems. Not to mention the veiled threats someone posted on the co-writer's Twitter account..
Yes, they did put their strange thoughts into the public domain for our delectation. However, we really should be careful not to taunt them too much.
I know some people have made comments regarding that they think RTD had been planning to bring Ianto back and now he wouldn't just to prove a point. In my opinion he's just sticking rigorously to a decision he's made and has decided is set in stone.
I think if he had been planning to bring Ianto back in S4 when questioned about it initially he would have just answered ambiguously rather than slamming the door on the subject and if by any chance this was the plan i doubt it could be called a success as he is now constantly getting press, questions and criticism about this when he quite obviously wants to talk about other things.
At the moment i would say that he comes across as quite frustrated that this has become an issue. As far as i can tell initally he seemed to deny that there was any kind of backlash, then seemed to be stressing how small it was and finally when he was pressed simply seemed to indicate that he wasn't really bothered what people thought anyway.
And as much some people are critisising this group of fans they are at least putting their money where their mouth is and have raised over £3300 for Children in Need.
At the moment i would say that he comes across as quite frustrated that this has become an issue.
He finds it amusing, quite clearly. He isn't frustrated at all. As the gaurdian blogger noted last night he was smirking when a few people were shouting 'we want Ianto'. He will have known full well it would antagonise a few people when he wrote the story, but he doesn't really let that influnce how he writes. It's one of the things that makes him so damn good at his job.
And as much some people are critisising this group of fans they are at least putting there money where their mouth is and have raised over £3300 for Children in Need.
Donating money to children in need in memory of a character you like is a good thing. No one can criticise that. But trying to use it as leverage means that it has been done less in goodwell and more to try and promote a cause. (and I don't mean the charity).
I know some people have made comments regarding that they think RTD had been planning to bring Ianto back and now he wouldn't just to prove a point. In my opinion he's just sticking rigorously to a decision he's made and has decided is set in stone.
I think if he had been planning to bring Ianto back in S4 when questioned about it initially he would have just answered ambiguously rather than slamming the door on the subject and if by any chance this was the plan i doubt it could be called a success as he is now constantly getting press, questions and criticism about this when he quite obviously wants to talk about other things.
At the moment i would say that he comes across as quite frustrated that this has become an issue. As far as i can tell initally he seemed to deny that there was any kind of backlash, then seemed to be stressing how small it was and finally when he was pressed simply seemed to indicate that he wasn't really bothered what people thought anyway.
And as much some people are critisising this group of fans they are at least putting their money where their mouth is and have raised over £3300 for Children in Need.
It is possible to give money to Children in Need without the vanity of declaring your donation. Just go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/pudsey/
I have no intention of declaring my donations (if any) because I'm not trying to emotionally blackmail the BBC into doing something against the will of Torchwood's creator.
I know some people have made comments regarding that they think RTD had been planning to bring Ianto back and now he wouldn't just to prove a point. In my opinion he's just sticking rigorously to a decision he's made and has decided is set in stone.
I think if he had been planning to bring Ianto back in S4 when questioned about it initially he would have just answered ambiguously rather than slamming the door on the subject and if by any chance this was the plan i doubt it could be called a success as he is now constantly getting press, questions and criticism about this when he quite obviously wants to talk about other things.
At the moment i would say that he comes across as quite frustrated that this has become an issue. As far as i can tell initally he seemed to deny that there was any kind of backlash, then seemed to be stressing how small it was and finally when he was pressed simply seemed to indicate that he wasn't really bothered what people thought anyway.
And as much some people are critisising this group of fans they are at least putting their money where their mouth is and have raised over £3300 for Children in Need.
Sorry, to clarify - exactly when has RTD indicated that he isn't bothered what people think?
Of course he is! He would be hoping that folk watched Day 1 and kept on watching. Which they did. Job done. It's quite clear that he's blown away by that and rightly so.
Further clarification that RTD is bothered what people think:
One of the fans that have felt slighted by Russell T Davies from weloveianto.com (or something) asks him to clarify some of his comments on the death of Ianto.
"I have nothing but respect for internet fandom: I understand that some things I have said have been taken the wrong way - and I understand that, and that's ok because sometimes people will always read things the way that makes sense to them. But I'm just not going to change my mind. I'm not."
The past few days have been very discouraging for everyone here, me included. However, I think we need to realise that this campaign was never going to be easy. RTD was never going to roll over and have his belly rubbed by Save Ianto fans. In fact, I it is NOW that the hard work for us all begins, because as people becoming disheartened by what is happening, they may start to leave the campaign and move onto new things. THIS IS WHAT THE BBC AND RTD ARE WAITING TO HAPPEN. They know we are upset, but they are assuming that things will die down, we'll go away and Ianto will be forgotten. So in many ways, the real campaign starts now!
To this end, I am going to put forward a proposal that may make them sit up and notice. While we have all been very diligent in sending in coffee and cards etc, we have no real way of knowing who at the BBC is taking notice. For all we know, they could be sitting in a box marked "Ianto nutters" in the BBC mail room.
I propose that we submit a formal "brief" to the BBC - formal briefs can not be ignored if they are presented in a professional and informative way (I used to write them for a living and the impact of a well-researched and professional brief can be incredible). The recipents could include people such as Executive Board Member Director-General Mark Thompson, Vision Director Jana Bennett, Marketing Director Sharon Baylay et al.
My inital ideas for the brief include:
* aims and objectives of the campaign
* a detailed summary of the members of this campaign, including country of origin, age, profession (comparing this to statistics and information on the target audience for Torchwood to prove that we ARE their target audience)
* a detailed summary of how much money we, as a collective, have spent on Torchwood merchandise in the past 12 months and how much money we probably won't be spending in the next 12 months (Execs love nothing more than seeing a bottom dollar figure, so allowing them to actually see the financial impact this campaign may have on their budget will be significant)
* a research report establishing that, while we may be few in numbers, we actually represent a more significant proportion of the viewing audience who feel the same way, but do not choose to participate in campaigns and forums
* copies of the media articles which have appeared across the globe
* details of the campaign to raise money for Children In Need
* a detailed appendix of every member of this campaign with details on who we are, what we do etc (we need this to show them that we're not a bunch of 15-year-old fangirls)
...and probably lots more once we put our thinking caps on.
I realise this may all seem very daunting, but I truly believe that, if we show the BBC that we are a well organised and articulate group of professionals, our comments and grievances will be taken far more seriously. And of course, it will all be written in a polite and constructive way to show the BBC execs that we are not a bunch of screaming kids.
Of course, this strategy will only work with the full cooperation of everyone involved with the campaign. And it will not be written within the next week. It may take a month or so to gather the information and research, but I suspect that we still have many months of campaigning ahead of us if we are to achieve our goals.
I am more than happy to play a significant role in the development of this brief, and as I know we have many lawyers, doctors, writers etc among our ranks, I think we will have no trouble putting together a "smack ass" plan.
Whew, sorry it got so long...but I truly believe this can a play a significant role in our efforts to bring back our beloved coffee boy (or GDL, which ever to be determined).
Do you think I should send an email to the www.saveiantojones.com people about this proposal, or do they read all these posts anyway? I certainly don't want to step on anyone's toes, and without their full agreement and support, I won't consider going ahead with this. More than happy to let them organise, if they want.
So this is the elite, is it? A bunch of Little Lord Fauntleroys (or Walter Mittys) stamping their feet and shouting "I'M IMPORTANT! I'M IMPORTANT!" while waving wads of virtual cash at nonplussed BBC Execs. (The same BBC Execs who must be grinning like Cheshire cats at the ratings, AI figures and merchandise sales.)
The creator of Torchwood has said NO on several occasions. That's the end of the matter until he says otherwise.
Does anyone honestly believe the BBC will overrule RTD and make his position untenable? Honestly? No, really honestly? You believe that, do you? And you say you have people like lawyers and doctors amongst you? Crikey, that's rather worrying.:eek:
What I would like is a new series with Gareth David-Lloyd as the main character. Don't care what it is as long as he is on the screen for most of the time!
What I would like is a new series with Gareth David-Lloyd as the main character. Don't care what it is as long as he is on the screen for most of the time!
Perhaps Torchwood should be more about ghosts and they should retitle it Harkness & Jones (Deceased)?
I propose that we submit a formal "brief" to the BBC - formal briefs can not be ignored if they are presented in a professional and informative way (I used to write them for a living and the impact of a well-researched and professional brief can be incredible). The recipents could include people such as Executive Board Member Director-General Mark Thompson, Vision Director Jana Bennett, Marketing Director Sharon Baylay et al.
My inital ideas for the brief include:
* aims and objectives of the campaign
* a detailed summary of the members of this campaign, including country of origin, age, profession (comparing this to statistics and information on the target audience for Torchwood to prove that we ARE their target audience)
* a detailed summary of how much money we, as a collective, have spent on Torchwood merchandise in the past 12 months and how much money we probably won't be spending in the next 12 months (Execs love nothing more than seeing a bottom dollar figure, so allowing them to actually see the financial impact this campaign may have on their budget will be significant)
* a research report establishing that, while we may be few in numbers, we actually represent a more significant proportion of the viewing audience who feel the same way, but do not choose to participate in campaigns and forums
* copies of the media articles which have appeared across the globe
* details of the campaign to raise money for Children In Need
* a detailed appendix of every member of this campaign with details on who we are, what we do etc (we need this to show them that we're not a bunch of 15-year-old fangirls)
It's funny how someone with experience in compiling professional briefs seems to know so little about sampling procedure.
The BBC will take no notice whatsoever of research and statistics compiled using unscientific and unregulated methods. Who's to say that you haven't simply excluded any data which is inconvenient to your cause? Who's to say that any of the data is true?
If you want the job done properly, you are going to have to spend good money hiring an independent research company (such as Ipsos MORI) to do your polling.
I've said this on another thread that's been removed.
Would all these fans want Ianto back so badly if he wasn't shagging Jack?
Please don't have a go at me. I've had enough of that for one lifetime.
I'm just asking.
Honestly, I often wonder the same thing. I'm also intrigued by people saying they only watched it for the jack and Ianto interaction and not the plot. So in those episodes before that relationship took off, why were they coming back? And, let's face it, their relationship is covered by about five minutes per episode.
Honestly, I often wonder the same thing. I'm also intrigued by people saying they only watched it for the jack and Ianto interaction and not the plot. So in those episodes before that relationship took off, why were they coming back? And, let's face it, their relationship is covered by about five minutes per episode.
It reminds me a bit of the Beecher/Keller shippers back when Oz was on HBO. When you consider that the romantic aspect of their storyline was such a small part of the overall story told in the show across it's six seasons, it's amazing how many people in various online communties claimed to only be interested in that. There were also major complaints from a vocal minorty about how that storyline ended as well, though how they came to belive a serial killer and a serial drunk were going to have a happy ending is beyond me. But I guess logic has little to do with it.
It practically accuses the BBC of being homophobic....these people are sick f*ckers. I'm sorry but they are. This post is an insult to people that have genuinely been the victim of homophobia.
Okay, own up, which one of you is Judas in that link above:D
You see this is what bothers me. Someone says something counter to their world-view and suddenly it's all OMG get out of our private little home if you don't agree with us 100%
I've said this on another thread that's been removed.
Would all these fans want Ianto back so badly if he wasn't shagging Jack?
Please don't have a go at me. I've had enough of that for one lifetime.
I'm just asking.
I always enjoyed watching Torchwood before it was more obvious about Ianto and Jack (I refuse to say "Janto" :eek:) and I still enjoyed the stories in all the series. The relationship was just another aspect of the stories.
It practically accuses the BBC of being homophobic....these people are sick f*ckers. I'm sorry but they are. This post is an insult to people that have genuinely been the victim of homophobia.
If the Coffee Boy campaign is so big on gay rights, why don't they have any homosexual men amongst them? They appear to be a bunch of teenage girls and immature women who do cosplay as Velma from Scooby-Doo. http://community.livejournal.com/fans_for_ianto/?skip=20
Comments
Yikes!:eek:
no drama - i still have 4 days :eek::eek::eek:
Yay for the sane DS Whovians!
DS almost certainly has a greater cross section of the viewing public than the dedicated DW/TW forums. The paucity of "Save Ianto" sentiment on here just goes to show how few people are getting themselves into a state about the death of the character.
Even Gallifrey Base only has a handful of campaigners amongst its huge membership. These people seem to retreat to their own little bubble on LiveJournal where they can all agree with other and pretend they represent the consensus of fandom. It doesn't seem to occur to them that they're a minority of a minority.
I know I've used the words loony and nutter quite a lot, but I think we should tread carefully. Comments about "shaking hands" and "screaming in my head" suggest some of these people have severe mental health problems. Not to mention the veiled threats someone posted on the co-writer's Twitter account..
Yes, they did put their strange thoughts into the public domain for our delectation. However, we really should be careful not to taunt them too much.
I think if he had been planning to bring Ianto back in S4 when questioned about it initially he would have just answered ambiguously rather than slamming the door on the subject and if by any chance this was the plan i doubt it could be called a success as he is now constantly getting press, questions and criticism about this when he quite obviously wants to talk about other things.
At the moment i would say that he comes across as quite frustrated that this has become an issue. As far as i can tell initally he seemed to deny that there was any kind of backlash, then seemed to be stressing how small it was and finally when he was pressed simply seemed to indicate that he wasn't really bothered what people thought anyway.
And as much some people are critisising this group of fans they are at least putting their money where their mouth is and have raised over £3300 for Children in Need.
He finds it amusing, quite clearly. He isn't frustrated at all. As the gaurdian blogger noted last night he was smirking when a few people were shouting 'we want Ianto'. He will have known full well it would antagonise a few people when he wrote the story, but he doesn't really let that influnce how he writes. It's one of the things that makes him so damn good at his job.
Donating money to children in need in memory of a character you like is a good thing. No one can criticise that. But trying to use it as leverage means that it has been done less in goodwell and more to try and promote a cause. (and I don't mean the charity).
It is possible to give money to Children in Need without the vanity of declaring your donation. Just go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/pudsey/
I have no intention of declaring my donations (if any) because I'm not trying to emotionally blackmail the BBC into doing something against the will of Torchwood's creator.
Sorry, to clarify - exactly when has RTD indicated that he isn't bothered what people think?
Of course he is! He would be hoping that folk watched Day 1 and kept on watching. Which they did. Job done. It's quite clear that he's blown away by that and rightly so.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/tvandradioblog/2009/jul/26/doctorwho-comic-con
So this is the elite, is it? A bunch of Little Lord Fauntleroys (or Walter Mittys) stamping their feet and shouting "I'M IMPORTANT! I'M IMPORTANT!" while waving wads of virtual cash at nonplussed BBC Execs. (The same BBC Execs who must be grinning like Cheshire cats at the ratings, AI figures and merchandise sales.)
The creator of Torchwood has said NO on several occasions. That's the end of the matter until he says otherwise.
Does anyone honestly believe the BBC will overrule RTD and make his position untenable? Honestly? No, really honestly? You believe that, do you? And you say you have people like lawyers and doctors amongst you? Crikey, that's rather worrying.:eek:
I really hate that the minority is shouting the loudest in this.
'John Barrowman talking about Ianto's death scene'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md_3CM7jZnM
Perhaps Torchwood should be more about ghosts and they should retitle it Harkness & Jones (Deceased)?
It's funny how someone with experience in compiling professional briefs seems to know so little about sampling procedure.
The BBC will take no notice whatsoever of research and statistics compiled using unscientific and unregulated methods. Who's to say that you haven't simply excluded any data which is inconvenient to your cause? Who's to say that any of the data is true?
If you want the job done properly, you are going to have to spend good money hiring an independent research company (such as Ipsos MORI) to do your polling.
I was just thinking this too. And I would even bet that we could raise just as much for CIN as they are.
http://community.livejournal.com/fans_for_ianto/
Would all these fans want Ianto back so badly if he wasn't shagging Jack?
Please don't have a go at me. I've had enough of that for one lifetime.
I'm just asking.
Honestly, I often wonder the same thing. I'm also intrigued by people saying they only watched it for the jack and Ianto interaction and not the plot.
It reminds me a bit of the Beecher/Keller shippers back when Oz was on HBO. When you consider that the romantic aspect of their storyline was such a small part of the overall story told in the show across it's six seasons, it's amazing how many people in various online communties claimed to only be interested in that. There were also major complaints from a vocal minorty about how that storyline ended as well, though how they came to belive a serial killer and a serial drunk were going to have a happy ending is beyond me. But I guess logic has little to do with it.
http://community.livejournal.com/savecoffeeboy/151063.html
It practically accuses the BBC of being homophobic....these people are sick f*ckers. I'm sorry but they are. This post is an insult to people that have genuinely been the victim of homophobia.
You see this is what bothers me. Someone says something counter to their world-view and suddenly it's all OMG get out of our private little home if you don't agree with us 100%
I remember why I like DS now.
I always enjoyed watching Torchwood before it was more obvious about Ianto and Jack (I refuse to say "Janto" :eek:) and I still enjoyed the stories in all the series. The relationship was just another aspect of the stories.
If the Coffee Boy campaign is so big on gay rights, why don't they have any homosexual men amongst them? They appear to be a bunch of teenage girls and immature women who do cosplay as Velma from Scooby-Doo.
http://community.livejournal.com/fans_for_ianto/?skip=20