As someone, as I've said in this thread, who has this happen to them twice, once pretty violently, I would like to reiterate that it is possible to go on and lead a happy life. I feel it's important to say that and not to give the message that one's life has to be completely blighted forever (which isn't to belittle it at all or say that it's not a life-changing, traumatic experience or that all people can get over it).
Thats true Kim , i also guess people react differently as well.
(Sorry for your experiences BTW.)
Well, it takes time, of course and what happened to me was a long time ago now but one of those incidents did mean I couldn't continue with the career I was starting on at that time, just for one thing, so I'm not underplaying the consequences).
It's unlikely, but I wouldn't someone who'd just gone through this to read some of this thread and think they will never be happy again or they will suffer for the rest of their lives. That's all I'm saying, really. As you say, everyone is different and will react differently.
Well, it takes time, of course and what happened to me was a long time ago now but one of those incidents did mean I couldn't continue with the career I was starting on at that time, just for one thing, so I'm not underplaying the consequences).
It's unlikely, but I wouldn't someone who'd just gone through this to read some of this thread and think they will never be happy again or they will suffer for the rest of their lives. That's all I'm saying, really. As you say, everyone is different and will react differently.
My friend was raped, and it has really affected how she is with men in terms of intimately and occasionally she gets down about it (although she is a very closed person so i don't always see how much it might affect her). She is happy most of the time though and I wouldnt say "its ruined her life" but then again, i wouldnt know that for sure.
But i think the thread title is a bit inappropriate..
My friend was raped, and it has really affected how she is with men in terms of intimately and occasionally she gets down about it (although she is a very closed person so i don't always see how much it might affect her). She is happy most of the time though and I wouldnt say "its ruined her life" but then again, i wouldnt know that for sure.
But i think the thread title is a bit inappropriate..
I hope she finds an understanding man and happiness and she has you to help which is great. I was very lucky with the friends I had then and I think that helped enormously.
I don't know if it's overrated generally, and maybe overrated is a bad choice of wording, but I think many people do so, those who regard it as worse than murder and I think there are quite a lot of them. Maybe it's because when someone's dead he's dead, but when a woman has been raped you know that there's her somewhere suffering at the moment. Or maybe the average human soul is darker than many want to believe and this form of domination/subjugation touches something that many subconsciously try to surpress with overly harsh reactions.
I also wonder if rape is made worse for the victim because of society's views on it and the stigma attached to it. I do think that's the case to some extent.
Perhaps you remember Natascha Kampusch, that Austrian girl who was abducted at the age of 10 and remained in custody in her kidnappers dungeon for eight years. The case was making headlines for weeks and caught the attention of simply everyone. There was much media pressure on her and then she gave a few interviews, one of them on tv.
I watched it and I was quite moved what a strong and beautiful girl she is and how she handled her situation. On the one hand she was condemning her kidnapper, but there were also many occasions where she defended him against accusations, saying that he was no sex monster and that the two had a tender intimate relationship. While she wasn't denying his wrongdoings she was also pointing out that not everything was bad and that her everyday life was most of the time very normal.
You could feel that after that interview she was somehow falling from grace with many people, I would even say the majority. How could this girl dare not to be a psychological wreckage? How could she be so normal or even strong after this hell she has gone through? Most people wanted to see her as the poor little girl, the mistreated victim and her kidnapper as evil monster. How could she be sorry for his death and how could she defend him?
In short, I felt that many people have been disappointed and the interest dropped very fast as she no longer served the morbid fascination of the public, which was good for her I would say as this stigmatization of her case wasn't doing her any good, more the opposite.
I think you fail to realise this girl is suffering, as many kidnap victims do from Stockholm syndrome– it will take her a long time to see the reality of the situation and one day it is going to hit her, she will be in denial about it as she was brainwashed from a young age and had not much other contact with the outside world or anyone else but this man- so would believe what he told her!
I really don’t exactly get by your strange term as rape being ‘overrated’?! this sounds like you are saying its an overrated thing for the attacker, not giving as good thrills as it should or something, what a weird term to use. I get you are trying to say the seriousness of the crime is overrated- sadly I think the total opposite- its clear from the tiny weeny proportion of rapists convicted it is not being taken seriously enough
And knowing how wrong and upsetting the thread title is why hasn't that still been changed despite numerous requests? It makes me think this thread is designed to be deliberately provoking and controversial.
I know people who have been raped whose lives are in tatters as a result. They would be deeply upset to read a thread like this, as would anyone who is actually registered on DS having been raped but DL doesn't seem to have taken that into consideration when creating the thread and especially the title.
As for the actual Q, i don;t think anyone is in a position to judge or make assumption on one how one should feel unless its heppened to them.
Have the mods been asked to change it? Yes, I believe the thread has been designed to provoke.
I think you fail to realise this girl is suffering, as many kidnap victims do from Stockholm syndrome– it will take her a long time to see the reality of the situation and one day it is going to hit her, she will be in denial about it as she was brainwashed from a young age and had not much other contact with the outside world or anyone else but this man- so would believe what he told her!
I really don’t exactly get by your strange term as rape being ‘overrated’?! this sounds like you are saying its an overrated thing for the attacker, not giving as good thrills as it should or something, what a weird term to use. I get you are trying to say the seriousness of the crime is overrated- sadly I think the total opposite- its clear from the tiny weeny proportion of rapists convicted it is not being taken seriously enough
I don't think he has heard of Stockholm Syndrome. :sleep:
I wonder about the title of this thread, and the OP's agenda behind it. Trying to 'defend' rape by comparing it to other crimes, and basically saying that it isn't as horrific as the others.. Why bother even trying to compare crimes? All are terrible in their own ways. Add to that the constant topics about sex, and I do worry about the mentality of the OP... Maybe I am seeing things that aren't there.
Obviously rape is a very serious crime and I'm not denying this, but people often seem to have it up on a pedestal often mentioning it alongside murder. But are they in the same league really?
I would say that murder is obviously far worse, and in a separate league, but also that there are many other crimes more serious than rape. In this case, I am considering rape where there are no serious physical injuries.
Is rape as serious as crimes where there are serious physical injuries? Which is worse: Being made to have sex with someone or having your face cut badly by someone with a knife so that you are permanently scarred? Being made to have sex with someone or having a finger cut off? Or a toe?
Obviously there are "psychological scars" but this is very subjective, and can and will happen anyway in the other cases I have mentioned where there is permanent physical damage. I would say the other crimes I have mentioned are worse to to the extra physical damage. I also wonder if rape is made worse for the victim because of society's views on it and the stigma attached to it. Still not with me? Consider this:
Someone has you at gunpoint and they give you three choices: have your face sliced up, have a finger cut off, or have sex with him (be raped by him). He'll use a condom - you're quite safe. What do you choose?
I can imagine one response to this post to be regarding those who rape children and how this is obviously far worse than the other crimes mentioned. Well, maybe you could argue that raping children is worse than raping adults and committing those other crimes on adult, but I'll leave that up to you to do. But then you could argue that cutting a child's finger off is worse than cutting an adult's finger off. Regardless of how that argument might go, I would still say that cutting a particular individual's finger off is worse than raping that individual, whether they are a child or an adult.
So, in conclusion, I would say that rape is a very serious crime (so don't pretend I'm denying this), but then so is any serious assault. Some are more bad and some less bad.
What do you think?
What right has any person/persons got to violate someone ,it's a disgusting crime commited by the lowest of the low.The people who commit such acts should be put away for a very long time.
all taken out of context, mind you. it's like taking a fish out of water and asking why it can't breathe. fish don't belong on land, they belong in the sea. put them back in the sea.
i'd laugh at you having several barrels of shit kicked out of you
yes because physical violence is so very amusing. I guess we can add wife beater along with rapist. if I were you, I'd turn myself into the police.
I'm a man. Suppose I was gang raped by a group of men, or just one man.
I then track down those men and take the law into my own hands blowing their sick brains out.
Who is the worst?
In my opinion the rapists.
So there are many instances where murder is better than rape and I can think of a few opposite examples.
If we are talking about random rape using a knife to threaten or random murder using a knife, I can't bring myself to say which is worse.
They are both exercising absolute disregard to the rights of another human being. I am quite happy for rapists to rot in jail until the day they die as murderers should do.
What a totally bizarre title to this thread, obviously done to provoke a high post count?
If the OP does not belittle rape as is suggested in the title, then he/she should be kindly asked to change it to....
Is murder a worse crime than rape?
Why bother posting that, the thread has been going for ages.
I don't think you can edit the title after a certain time anyway, no doubt some people are now subscribed to the thread and may want to refer to it at a later date.
It's a genuine question as far as I can see, so why not ask for opinions?
I don't think that's true. There are plenty of women out there who are very ignorant about rape and the effect it has on people. Sad but true. I don't think we should turn this thread into a spot of guy-bashing.
I also think the OP was very brave for starting the debate and, if very daring and controversial, he did try and qualify that he still thought rape a dreadful thing and was very clear about its effects. Yes - controversial, no - I don't think offensive. It's simply a point of view, though I disagree with it.
I did jury service and the sentence was 7 years on a majority verdict.
Ignoring debates on correct sentence lengths full stop, murders often get that same sentence.
No, dear. Murderers would get a life sentence. It's mandatory.
The maximum sentence for rape is, of course, a life sentence. This will be with serious aggrevating factors included, of course. I think, however controversial, it is right that there is discretion in sentencing for rape because some rapes are obviously worse than others.
But whichever way you cut the cake rape is still an awful, awful crime. Up there with murder? I think so to some extent, especially in the way it can affect a person's day-to-day life.
Guess I was thinking of manslaughter. No idea what the max on this is. Still murder though.
And easier to prove.
Manslaughter is manslaughter. It's not murder. Murder requires intention to kill or do GBH. Manslaughter does not require intention.
The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life, but it depends on the circumstances. In a lot of cases someone guilty of manslaughter will get far less than that. Rape has the same sentencing options as manslaughter.
Most animals essentially rape the female of the species. I think humans are the same. What I'm saying is that rape is probably "natural". It may be natural, but it's still morally wrong in a civilised society - Humans are probably one of the only species to overcome nature.
I don't think he has heard of Stockholm Syndrome. :sleep:
I wonder about the title of this thread, and the OP's agenda behind it. Trying to 'defend' rape by comparing it to other crimes, and basically saying that it isn't as horrific as the others.. Why bother even trying to compare crimes? All are terrible in their own ways. Add to that the constant topics about sex, and I do worry about the mentality of the OP... Maybe I am seeing things that aren't there.
I'm with you there BlueSparkleDust...the bit that set alarm bells ringing for me was this from the OP:
"Or maybe the average human soul is darker than many want to believe and this form of domination/subjugation touches something that many subconsciously try to surpress with overly harsh reactions."
Perhaps I'm reading it wrongly, but is there a bit of "women want it really.." about that quote?
I'm with you there BlueSparkleDust...the bit that set alarm bells ringing for me was this from the OP:
"Or maybe the average human soul is darker than many want to believe and this form of domination/subjugation touches something that many subconsciously try to surpress with overly harsh reactions."
Perhaps I'm reading it wrongly, but is there a bit of "women want it really.." about that quote?
Yes, I wonder what the 'overly harsh reactions' are or what that means. I wonder of the OP is saying rape is just the same as a physical assault, say, a few punches or something or a beating, and the perpetrators should be sentenced accordingly? That the sentencing for rape is too harsh and the stigma for the rapist disproportionate? I'm not sure.
Yes, I wonder what the 'overly harsh reactions' are or what that means. I wonder of the OP is saying rape is just the same as a physical assault, say, a few punches or something or a beating, and the perpetrators should be sentenced accordingly? That the sentencing for rape is too harsh and the stigma for the rapist disproportionate? I'm not sure.
The bit the raised concerns in my mind was the domination/subjugation that the OP sees in the act of rape "touching something" in people.
I inferred from this (and of course I may well be reading it wrongly and would stand corrected if this proved the case) that the OP was suggesting men and women react so harshly to rape as they don't want to confront the possibility that they really want to seek this kind of domination/submission.
And if it was what he was suggesting I personally find that a very disturbing and potentially dangerous point of view.
The bit the raised concerns in my mind was the domination/subjugation that the OP sees in the act of rape "touching something" in people.
I inferred from this (and of course I may well be reading it wrongly and would stand corrected if this proved the case) that the OP was suggesting men and women react so harshly to rape as they don't want to confront the possibility that they really want to seek this kind of domination/submission.
And if it was what he was suggesting I personally find that a very disturbing and potentially dangerous point of view.
Yes. Rape and any kind of consensual sex, however non-conventional or sado-masochistic, bear no relationship to each other. There's nothing sexual about rape for the victim, if you get my meaning.
Yes. Rape and any kind of consensual sex, however non-conventional or sado-masochistic, bear no relationship to each other. There's nothing sexual about rape for the victim, if you get my meaning.
I noticed that too... the OP could not seem to distinguishe between rape and sex
have sex with (be raped by)
The two are not one and the same and it is the assumption by a lot of ignorant people that rape is "just sex" that means that so many women are frightened to report it, or do not get the justice they deserve.
Yes. Rape and any kind of consensual sex, however non-conventional or sado-masochistic, bear no relationship to each other. There's nothing sexual about rape for the victim, if you get my meaning.
Comments
(Sorry for your experiences BTW.)
It's unlikely, but I wouldn't someone who'd just gone through this to read some of this thread and think they will never be happy again or they will suffer for the rest of their lives. That's all I'm saying, really. As you say, everyone is different and will react differently.
My friend was raped, and it has really affected how she is with men in terms of intimately and occasionally she gets down about it (although she is a very closed person so i don't always see how much it might affect her). She is happy most of the time though and I wouldnt say "its ruined her life" but then again, i wouldnt know that for sure.
But i think the thread title is a bit inappropriate..
And I agree about the thread title.
I think you fail to realise this girl is suffering, as many kidnap victims do from Stockholm syndrome– it will take her a long time to see the reality of the situation and one day it is going to hit her, she will be in denial about it as she was brainwashed from a young age and had not much other contact with the outside world or anyone else but this man- so would believe what he told her!
I really don’t exactly get by your strange term as rape being ‘overrated’?! this sounds like you are saying its an overrated thing for the attacker, not giving as good thrills as it should or something, what a weird term to use. I get you are trying to say the seriousness of the crime is overrated- sadly I think the total opposite- its clear from the tiny weeny proportion of rapists convicted it is not being taken seriously enough
I don't think he has heard of Stockholm Syndrome. :sleep:
I wonder about the title of this thread, and the OP's agenda behind it. Trying to 'defend' rape by comparing it to other crimes, and basically saying that it isn't as horrific as the others..
What right has any person/persons got to violate someone ,it's a disgusting crime commited by the lowest of the low.The people who commit such acts should be put away for a very long time.
yes because physical violence is so very amusing. I guess we can add wife beater along with rapist. if I were you, I'd turn myself into the police.
indeed...hopefully the moderators will be as quick to ban him as they were me when I made an innocuous comment.
Have you raped anyone?
Let me give an example.
I'm a man. Suppose I was gang raped by a group of men, or just one man.
I then track down those men and take the law into my own hands blowing their sick brains out.
Who is the worst?
In my opinion the rapists.
So there are many instances where murder is better than rape and I can think of a few opposite examples.
If we are talking about random rape using a knife to threaten or random murder using a knife, I can't bring myself to say which is worse.
They are both exercising absolute disregard to the rights of another human being. I am quite happy for rapists to rot in jail until the day they die as murderers should do.
What a totally bizarre title to this thread, obviously done to provoke a high post count?
If the OP does not belittle rape as is suggested in the title, then he/she should be kindly asked to change it to....
Is murder a worse crime than rape?
Why bother posting that, the thread has been going for ages.
I don't think you can edit the title after a certain time anyway, no doubt some people are now subscribed to the thread and may want to refer to it at a later date.
It's a genuine question as far as I can see, so why not ask for opinions?
I don't think that's true. There are plenty of women out there who are very ignorant about rape and the effect it has on people. Sad but true. I don't think we should turn this thread into a spot of guy-bashing.
I also think the OP was very brave for starting the debate and, if very daring and controversial, he did try and qualify that he still thought rape a dreadful thing and was very clear about its effects. Yes - controversial, no - I don't think offensive. It's simply a point of view, though I disagree with it.
No, dear. Murderers would get a life sentence. It's mandatory.
The maximum sentence for rape is, of course, a life sentence. This will be with serious aggrevating factors included, of course. I think, however controversial, it is right that there is discretion in sentencing for rape because some rapes are obviously worse than others.
But whichever way you cut the cake rape is still an awful, awful crime. Up there with murder? I think so to some extent, especially in the way it can affect a person's day-to-day life.
Guess I was thinking of manslaughter. No idea what the max on this is. Still murder though.
And easier to prove.
Manslaughter is manslaughter. It's not murder. Murder requires intention to kill or do GBH. Manslaughter does not require intention.
The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life, but it depends on the circumstances. In a lot of cases someone guilty of manslaughter will get far less than that. Rape has the same sentencing options as manslaughter.
Murder always carries a life sentence.
I'm with you there BlueSparkleDust...the bit that set alarm bells ringing for me was this from the OP:
"Or maybe the average human soul is darker than many want to believe and this form of domination/subjugation touches something that many subconsciously try to surpress with overly harsh reactions."
Perhaps I'm reading it wrongly, but is there a bit of "women want it really.." about that quote?
Yes, I wonder what the 'overly harsh reactions' are or what that means. I wonder of the OP is saying rape is just the same as a physical assault, say, a few punches or something or a beating, and the perpetrators should be sentenced accordingly? That the sentencing for rape is too harsh and the stigma for the rapist disproportionate? I'm not sure.
The bit the raised concerns in my mind was the domination/subjugation that the OP sees in the act of rape "touching something" in people.
I inferred from this (and of course I may well be reading it wrongly and would stand corrected if this proved the case) that the OP was suggesting men and women react so harshly to rape as they don't want to confront the possibility that they really want to seek this kind of domination/submission.
And if it was what he was suggesting I personally find that a very disturbing and potentially dangerous point of view.
Yes. Rape and any kind of consensual sex, however non-conventional or sado-masochistic, bear no relationship to each other. There's nothing sexual about rape for the victim, if you get my meaning.
I noticed that too... the OP could not seem to distinguishe between rape and sex
The two are not one and the same and it is the assumption by a lot of ignorant people that rape is "just sex" that means that so many women are frightened to report it, or do not get the justice they deserve.
Absolutely. Thanks for that kimindex.