Quite. And the funny thing is people see this as progress. Lets deny the listener of choice seams to be the way forward. It's rather sad really.
And what is the alternative? Make a special case to hand a licence to a guy who has a less than successful track record in operating commercial radio stations?
And what is the alternative? Make a special case to hand a licence to a guy who has a less than successful track record in operating commercial radio stations?
As has been pointed out time and time again on this forum, there is no alternative. The only way is heart.
Maybe so, but I'm at least attempting to engage in a debate. If ledders can't or won't do that, it's their look out.
In my opinion, local radio should be just that, local.
If I wanted to listen to national radio, I would. And sometimes, I do. I listen to Radio 2, Radio 4 and Radio 5 live on a regular basis.
However, I prefer to listen to something a bit more local most of the time. Something that is going to reflect the area I live in. I don't agree with people loosing their jobs simply because more profit needs to be made.
I am sick od hearing the same old arguments about "living in the past", "rose tinted glasses", "it's a business, it's all about money".
It may well bw a business, but it is there to entertain the listener. Again, in my opinion.
And, in answer to your question, no, it shouldn't be a special case. It should be the case that anybody in an area that has had it's local service taken away from it, should be encourageed to provide the service.
Not everybody is driven by money as their primary goal.
I'm afraid thought that most things are now all about profit and streamlining (hence all the job losses in radio) Radio is there for the first thing, to make a profit, then it's to keep the advertisers/shareholders happy, then the third thing is the listener, to entertain them etc...
When I spoke to Andy Siddell , who used to do afternoons on Magic AM, he said you won't recognise radio in 2 years time, and he was exactly right, and he said radio stations are just about making money, and keeping the advertisers/shareholders happy, and not really about the listeners' any more.
And I'm afraid times do move on and change and yes it was nice to have local ILRs all over the place doing their thing in the 70's and 80's but all things must change, and if there is to be Heart all over the place, then that's what will be- they are only all over the place for one reason- people like it, and the advertisers like it- so they see how they can take over the country!!
In my opinion, local radio should be just that, local.
If I wanted to listen to national radio, I would. And sometimes, I do. I listen to Radio 2, Radio 4 and Radio 5 live on a regular basis.
However, I prefer to listen to something a bit more local most of the time. Something that is going to reflect the area I live in. I don't agree with people loosing their jobs simply because more profit needs to be made.
I am sick od hearing the same old arguments about "living in the past", "rose tinted glasses", "it's a business, it's all about money".
It may well bw a business, but it is there to entertain the listener. Again, in my opinion.
And, in answer to your question, no, it shouldn't be a special case. It should be the case that anybody in an area that has had it's local service taken away from it, should be encourageed to provide the service.
Not everybody is driven by money as their primary goal.
In my opinion, local radio should be just that, local.
However, I prefer to listen to something a bit more local most of the time. Something that is going to reflect the area I live in. I don't agree with people loosing their jobs simply because more profit needs to be made.
It may well bw a business, but it is there to entertain the listener. Again, in my opinion.
And, in answer to your question, no, it shouldn't be a special case. It should be the case that anybody in an area that has had it's local service taken away from it, should be encourageed to provide the service.
Not everybody is driven by money as their primary goal.
And TFM still has bespoke local news.
As I understand it, only four staff lost their jobs. Almost thirty moved a few miles north.
There's also no proof that networking a service means it's less entertaining.
In my opinion, local radio should be just that, local. [...]
However, I prefer to listen to something a bit more local most of the time. Something that is going to reflect the area I live in. I don't agree with people loosing their jobs simply because more profit needs to be made.
[...]
Not everybody is driven by money as their primary goal.
Commercial radio is not about entertaining the listener, it's about gathering as many people as possible in order to hear the adverts. It's all about money.
I don't understand why you expect commercial radio to provide this local, non-profit service you desire?
Commercial radio is not about entertaining the listener, it's about gathering as many people as possible in order to hear the adverts. It's all about money.
I don't understand why you expect commercial radio to provide this local, non-profit service you desire?
All the Bauer Place stations are identical in the style of programming and music logs, so all that's changed on air at TFM is the voices heard inbetween the records.
All the Bauer Place stations are identical in the style of programming and music logs, so all that's changed on air at TFM is the voices heard inbetween the records.
All you say? Well If you actually looked into this then you would know you were wrong. First style of programming? Well I can't really give you evidence on this but when I have listened to different Bauer Scotland stations I notice a difference the stations in more rural areas such as Radio Borders, Tay FM, MFR and Northsound seem to have more local features, I remember hearing on Radio Borders they were doing free advertising for community events, they also seem to talk a lot more compared to the likes of Clyde and Forth. Secondly music logs? Okay look up Clyde 1 and Radio Borders on compare my radio big difference in the amount of unique songs played same as many of the other Scottish stations. I also looked at a couple of stations from South of the border Key 103 and TFM for example have got a 200 unique song difference. So I suggest that next time when you try to say facts you should at least make them correct.
Commercial radio is not about entertaining the listener, it's about gathering as many people as possible in order to hear the adverts. It's all about money.
I don't understand why you expect commercial radio to provide this local, non-profit service you desire?
And I don't understand why you think heart is so wonderful.
I expect local independent radio to provide this service as I expect it to entertain. If it entertains, it will bring in the listeners. You don't. Have you got any expectations of local radio?
I really think people need to realise what is going to happen here. It is going to be catastrophic.
People need to understand if heart is rolled out across the country, the chances are we will never get back a decent quality radio service.
Again, I have said numerous times on here, if you are happy with heart, then good luck to you. There are people all over the country who don't have that choice anymore, because heart has come along and destroyed their local radio station.
I have had the privilege to be able to listen to some decent radio in the form of Century and now Real. I don't want that destroying as well.
Have any of you actually listened to it? If you listen to a local radio station you want it to be local, not a couple of geordies talking about Newcastle.
My dad who has been a TFM listener for as long as I can remember, and now he can't stand it..
And I don't understand why you think heart is so wonderful.
Why are you mentioning heart on a TFM thread?
I expect local independent radio to provide this service as I expect it to entertain. If it entertains, it will bring in the listeners. You don't. Have you got any expectations of local radio?
ILR no longer exists (See what I mean about "living in the 80s"). There is commercial radio and the BBC. Commercial radio is about building an attractive demographic to throw adverts at. Its nothing to do with "entertaining" anybody.
If you felt so strongly about 'losing local radio' why didn't you write to Ofcom before the Digital Economy Bill passed?
People need to understand if heart is rolled out across the country, the chances are we will never get back a decent quality radio service.
Decent radio service means what exactly? And again what has heart go to do with TFM?
Again, I have said numerous times on here, if you are happy with heart, then good luck to you. There are people all over the country who don't have that choice anymore, because heart has come along and destroyed their local radio station.
You mention enjoying listening to Radios 2, 4 and 6, yet bemoan the choice of radio stations. Which argument are you supporting here?
I have had the privilege to be able to listen to some decent radio in the form of Century and now Real. I don't want that destroying as well.
Have any of you actually listened to it? If you listen to a local radio station you want it to be local, not a couple of geordies talking about Newcastle.
My dad who has been a TFM listener for as long as I can remember, and now he can't stand it..
I've heard a bit of Steve and Karen on TFM. I've also heard a bit of Hallam. I'd know which one I prefer (it isn't Hallam).
And I don't understand why you think heart is so wonderful.
I expect local independent radio to provide this service as I expect it to entertain. If it entertains, it will bring in the listeners. You don't. Have you got any expectations of local radio?
I really think people need to realise what is going to happen here. It is going to be catastrophic.
What is going on here is that deregulation by successive governments has led to a situation where a huge swathe of the British economy (including broadcasting) is now controlled by multinational corporations and a few rich individuals.
They basically don't give a stuff about quality of service for the listener, the 'localness' of the service or anything else. Their only aim is maximising profits, monopolising markets and exploiting the customers, listeners and the environment to the full extent that our feeble and corrupt politicians allow.
Time to wake up, smell the coffee and listen to BBC Radio 4.:D
ILR no longer exists (See what I mean about "living in the 80s"). There is commercial radio and the BBC. Commercial radio is about building an attractive demographic to throw adverts at. Its nothing to do with "entertaining" anybody.
If you felt so strongly about 'losing local radio' why didn't you write to Ofcom before the Digital Economy Bill passed?
Decent radio service means what exactly? And again what has heart go to do with TFM?
You mention enjoying listening to Radios 2, 4 and 6, yet bemoan the choice of radio stations. Which argument are you supporting here?
Again, nothing to do with TFM.
I am mentioning heart as I see the constant change to having more networked shows across radio stations as the kind of rubbish that heart churns out. I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to mention the name of another radio station in a thread about another. Can you kindly point me in the direction of the rule that doesn't allow me to do that? Or, are you now making up rules by which posters on this forum are allowed to post?
And, yet again, here is the argument about living in the past. Yawn, yawn. It's boring.
There are few ILR stations nowadays (by the way, a few do still exist) because we are getting the rubbish like heart inflicted on us. No consultation. Just a case of listen to this rubbish from now on, and if you don't like it, tough.
Instead of "more music variety" they should say "no station variety"!!
And there is another question. They bang on about "more music variety" on heart. When will this start??
One more thing, where did I say I listened to Radio 6?
All you say? Well If you actually looked into this then you would know you were wrong. First style of programming? Well I can't really give you evidence on this but when I have listened to different Bauer Scotland stations I notice a difference the stations in more rural areas such as Radio Borders, Tay FM, MFR and Northsound seem to have more local features, I remember hearing on Radio Borders they were doing free advertising for community events, they also seem to talk a lot more compared to the likes of Clyde and Forth. Secondly music logs? Okay look up Clyde 1 and Radio Borders on compare my radio big difference in the amount of unique songs played same as many of the other Scottish stations. I also looked at a couple of stations from South of the border Key 103 and TFM for example have got a 200 unique song difference. So I suggest that next time when you try to say facts you should at least make them correct.
I am mentioning heart as I see the constant change to having more networked shows across radio stations as the kind of rubbish that heart churns out...
I like the argument that Heart is rubbish because it networks a lot of its shows across it stations. So by extension Kiss, Capital, Magic, The Breeze, Metro/TFM etc are all rubbish too? This coming from a fan of Real Radio, also networked.
If you love local radio so much, why didn't you let Ofcom know about it before they ok it?
And, yet again, here is the argument about living in the past. Yawn, yawn. It's boring.
There are few ILR stations nowadays (by the way, a few do still exist) because we are getting the rubbish like heart inflicted on us. No consultation. Just a case of listen to this rubbish from now on, and if you don't like it, tough.
ILR doesn't exist anymore, it's an old term for commercial radio from the 70's, so, yes, you are living in the past. If it bores you, I'm sorry.
Instead of "more music variety" they should say "no station variety"!!
And there is another question. They bang on about "more music variety" on heart. When will this start??
I'll skip the heart tirade and ask you one more time, you mention choice, what choice are you talking about? Choice of ILR?
One more thing, where did I say I listened to Radio 6?
Ah, I misread it; it wasn't 6, it was Radios 2, 4 and 5Live. Yet this doesn't count as choice?
Well Metro and TFM and doesn't surprise me as they are now technically the same station. Key 103 and Metro have got a big difference, Metro plays 617 unique songs a month where as Key 103 plays 446 so that is 171 songs, that is quite a lot, that is about the entire player list of a Global station. Now wait for it, this is the big one CFM plays 1,023 unique songs a month that is 406 extra songs than Metro Radio. So surely you can't be telling me that these stations are similar in their player lists?
Keiran compare my radio is not a good way of seeing how different a radio station is. A few very subtle differences in off peak specialist shows can make a difference to the numbers. As they come from the website and not the station itself I can tell you that it's not alwsys correct.
By looking at the playlist and listening to the stations it'pretty obvious that the bauer place stations are all simmilar in programming style and playlist. They have the same head of music for a start.
The scottish ststions are less simmilar at the moment but this may change within the next year. There are lots of ressons the likes of Borders are vastly different to Clyde in sound and most of these reasons are pretty obvious.
The fact is Bauer could merge a couple more of their english stations as they have with tfm and it would make next to no difference to the station sound.
All the Bauer Place stations are identical in the style of programming and music logs, so all that's changed on air at TFM is the voices heard inbetween the records.
That is a rather significant difference. Without the 'voices Inbetween the records' you may as well just listen to Spotify.
And, yet again, here is the argument about living in the past. Yawn, yawn. It's boring.
There are few ILR stations nowadays (by the way, a few do still exist) because we are getting the rubbish like heart inflicted on us. No consultation. Just a case of listen to this rubbish from now on, and if you don't like it, tough.
?
Sorry ledders, you can't just say "yawn" when people challenge you with legitimate points to counter your argument.
For starters, Real Radio has never been "independent" or, for that matter, local. These regional licences might have had a few token local names on the licence application but they were funded by groups - starting, I think, with Border TV, then Capital and latterly GMG.
The "I" and "L" bits of ILR vanished many, many years ago. How long have TFM and Metro been part of the same group? At least back as far as Emap.
Perhaps the amount of information about the workings of our industry have become more apparent with the advent of forums like this - but what is happening now is no "sudden move" with "no consultation". MSB asked you what you did to oppose the Digitial Economy Act. So come on, did you lobby your local MP? I did.
Comments
And what is the alternative? Make a special case to hand a licence to a guy who has a less than successful track record in operating commercial radio stations?
As has been pointed out time and time again on this forum, there is no alternative. The only way is heart.
That isn't what I said. How about answering the question?
I feear you may be wasting your breath...
Maybe so, but I'm at least attempting to engage in a debate. If ledders can't or won't do that, it's their look out.
In my opinion, local radio should be just that, local.
If I wanted to listen to national radio, I would. And sometimes, I do. I listen to Radio 2, Radio 4 and Radio 5 live on a regular basis.
However, I prefer to listen to something a bit more local most of the time. Something that is going to reflect the area I live in. I don't agree with people loosing their jobs simply because more profit needs to be made.
I am sick od hearing the same old arguments about "living in the past", "rose tinted glasses", "it's a business, it's all about money".
It may well bw a business, but it is there to entertain the listener. Again, in my opinion.
And, in answer to your question, no, it shouldn't be a special case. It should be the case that anybody in an area that has had it's local service taken away from it, should be encourageed to provide the service.
Not everybody is driven by money as their primary goal.
When I spoke to Andy Siddell , who used to do afternoons on Magic AM, he said you won't recognise radio in 2 years time, and he was exactly right, and he said radio stations are just about making money, and keeping the advertisers/shareholders happy, and not really about the listeners' any more.
And I'm afraid times do move on and change and yes it was nice to have local ILRs all over the place doing their thing in the 70's and 80's but all things must change, and if there is to be Heart all over the place, then that's what will be- they are only all over the place for one reason- people like it, and the advertisers like it- so they see how they can take over the country!!
Amen.
And TFM still has bespoke local news.
As I understand it, only four staff lost their jobs. Almost thirty moved a few miles north.
There's also no proof that networking a service means it's less entertaining.
Commercial radio is not about entertaining the listener, it's about gathering as many people as possible in order to hear the adverts. It's all about money.
I don't understand why you expect commercial radio to provide this local, non-profit service you desire?
And it has been that way since day one!
All you say? Well If you actually looked into this then you would know you were wrong. First style of programming? Well I can't really give you evidence on this but when I have listened to different Bauer Scotland stations I notice a difference the stations in more rural areas such as Radio Borders, Tay FM, MFR and Northsound seem to have more local features, I remember hearing on Radio Borders they were doing free advertising for community events, they also seem to talk a lot more compared to the likes of Clyde and Forth. Secondly music logs? Okay look up Clyde 1 and Radio Borders on compare my radio big difference in the amount of unique songs played same as many of the other Scottish stations. I also looked at a couple of stations from South of the border Key 103 and TFM for example have got a 200 unique song difference. So I suggest that next time when you try to say facts you should at least make them correct.
And I don't understand why you think heart is so wonderful.
I expect local independent radio to provide this service as I expect it to entertain. If it entertains, it will bring in the listeners. You don't. Have you got any expectations of local radio?
I really think people need to realise what is going to happen here. It is going to be catastrophic.
People need to understand if heart is rolled out across the country, the chances are we will never get back a decent quality radio service.
Again, I have said numerous times on here, if you are happy with heart, then good luck to you. There are people all over the country who don't have that choice anymore, because heart has come along and destroyed their local radio station.
I have had the privilege to be able to listen to some decent radio in the form of Century and now Real. I don't want that destroying as well.
My dad who has been a TFM listener for as long as I can remember, and now he can't stand it..
Why are you mentioning heart on a TFM thread?
ILR no longer exists (See what I mean about "living in the 80s"). There is commercial radio and the BBC. Commercial radio is about building an attractive demographic to throw adverts at. Its nothing to do with "entertaining" anybody.
If you felt so strongly about 'losing local radio' why didn't you write to Ofcom before the Digital Economy Bill passed?
Decent radio service means what exactly? And again what has heart go to do with TFM?
You mention enjoying listening to Radios 2, 4 and 6, yet bemoan the choice of radio stations. Which argument are you supporting here?
Again, nothing to do with TFM.
I've heard a bit of Steve and Karen on TFM. I've also heard a bit of Hallam. I'd know which one I prefer (it isn't Hallam).
What is going on here is that deregulation by successive governments has led to a situation where a huge swathe of the British economy (including broadcasting) is now controlled by multinational corporations and a few rich individuals.
They basically don't give a stuff about quality of service for the listener, the 'localness' of the service or anything else. Their only aim is maximising profits, monopolising markets and exploiting the customers, listeners and the environment to the full extent that our feeble and corrupt politicians allow.
Time to wake up, smell the coffee and listen to BBC Radio 4.:D
I am mentioning heart as I see the constant change to having more networked shows across radio stations as the kind of rubbish that heart churns out. I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to mention the name of another radio station in a thread about another. Can you kindly point me in the direction of the rule that doesn't allow me to do that? Or, are you now making up rules by which posters on this forum are allowed to post?
And, yet again, here is the argument about living in the past. Yawn, yawn. It's boring.
There are few ILR stations nowadays (by the way, a few do still exist) because we are getting the rubbish like heart inflicted on us. No consultation. Just a case of listen to this rubbish from now on, and if you don't like it, tough.
Instead of "more music variety" they should say "no station variety"!!
And there is another question. They bang on about "more music variety" on heart. When will this start??
One more thing, where did I say I listened to Radio 6?
Bauer Place Northern England :eek::D
CFM, Key, Metro, TFM aren't too dissimilar.
I like the argument that Heart is rubbish because it networks a lot of its shows across it stations. So by extension Kiss, Capital, Magic, The Breeze, Metro/TFM etc are all rubbish too? This coming from a fan of Real Radio, also networked.
If you love local radio so much, why didn't you let Ofcom know about it before they ok it?
ILR doesn't exist anymore, it's an old term for commercial radio from the 70's, so, yes, you are living in the past. If it bores you, I'm sorry.
I'll skip the heart tirade and ask you one more time, you mention choice, what choice are you talking about? Choice of ILR?
Ah, I misread it; it wasn't 6, it was Radios 2, 4 and 5Live. Yet this doesn't count as choice?
Well Metro and TFM and doesn't surprise me as they are now technically the same station. Key 103 and Metro have got a big difference, Metro plays 617 unique songs a month where as Key 103 plays 446 so that is 171 songs, that is quite a lot, that is about the entire player list of a Global station. Now wait for it, this is the big one CFM plays 1,023 unique songs a month that is 406 extra songs than Metro Radio. So surely you can't be telling me that these stations are similar in their player lists?
By looking at the playlist and listening to the stations it'pretty obvious that the bauer place stations are all simmilar in programming style and playlist. They have the same head of music for a start.
The scottish ststions are less simmilar at the moment but this may change within the next year. There are lots of ressons the likes of Borders are vastly different to Clyde in sound and most of these reasons are pretty obvious.
The fact is Bauer could merge a couple more of their english stations as they have with tfm and it would make next to no difference to the station sound.
That is a rather significant difference. Without the 'voices Inbetween the records' you may as well just listen to Spotify.
Sorry ledders, you can't just say "yawn" when people challenge you with legitimate points to counter your argument.
For starters, Real Radio has never been "independent" or, for that matter, local. These regional licences might have had a few token local names on the licence application but they were funded by groups - starting, I think, with Border TV, then Capital and latterly GMG.
The "I" and "L" bits of ILR vanished many, many years ago. How long have TFM and Metro been part of the same group? At least back as far as Emap.
Perhaps the amount of information about the workings of our industry have become more apparent with the advent of forums like this - but what is happening now is no "sudden move" with "no consultation". MSB asked you what you did to oppose the Digitial Economy Act. So come on, did you lobby your local MP? I did.