Why was Die Hard 4 and 5 so poor?

linkinpark875linkinpark875 Posts: 29,686
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I watched the third the other night and it reminds me of Taken 3. If Taken 3 was a decent action film why did the Die Hard movies seem low key after the 3rd? For me I think they made a mistake going for Jai Courtney in this movie. It also lacked a larger support cast like the early ones. Seeming they will do a Die Hard 6..
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  • YuffieYuffie Posts: 9,864
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    But Taken 3 wasn't a decent action film.
  • Ted CTed C Posts: 11,728
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    Yuffie wrote: »
    But Taken 3 wasn't a decent action film.


    Quite...though I would agree with the OP as far as Diehard 4 and 5 being pretty rubbish.
  • darkjedimasterdarkjedimaster Posts: 18,619
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    The last Die Hard was ruined by the ridiculous cutting of language and violence that help make the previous films great. Imho censoring the "yippee ki yay" line in the last film & reducing the film to a kiddie friendly film, is what ruined it for me.
  • grazey1985grazey1985 Posts: 1,480
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    4 and 5 being edited so it could be a 12 certificate at the cinemas
  • The AmbassadorThe Ambassador Posts: 5,631
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    I enjoyed Live Free or Die Hard (Uncut), actually prefer it to Die Hard 2.

    A Good Day To Die Hard is horrendous though.
  • dearmrmandearmrman Posts: 21,408
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    Personally I think Die Hard with a Vengeance was the start of the rot, a bit like the Lethal Weapon series again the 3rd film was the start of the franchise going downhill.

    The films started to go a more comedy route.
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
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    Out of curiosity I just read some quotes from the original Die Hard director John McTiernan and it turns out he was something of a disciple of European art house cinema.

    Maybe where the later films went wrong is they were straight-ahead action films (and not very good ones either) rather than being character-led dramas that just happened to have a lot of action in them.
  • JasonJason Posts: 76,557
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    I also quite liked part 4 as well but 5 was truly, truly awful.
  • jimbo1962jimbo1962 Posts: 2,552
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    the version of 3 that was on the other night was a very uncut version
    they normally always remove the scene in the fight in the lift where he blows the big guys brains out.
  • pburke90pburke90 Posts: 14,753
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    1, 2 and 3 are great movies and I can enjoy them no matter how many times I see them.

    4 is OK, but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it. 5 is quite simply God-awful. Seriously bad.

    I don't hold out much hope for the planned 6th instalment / Jai Courtney taking over the franchise.
  • roger_50roger_50 Posts: 6,884
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    There is no comparison between Die Hard 4 and Die Hard 5.

    4 is a decent action movie (regardless of whether it was toned down a bit too much), 5 is utterly terrible in every way.
  • DeneDene Posts: 153
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    For a start: because they left it far, far too long and Bruce Willis doesn't seem to be playing the same character as in 1-3.

    The rating makes no difference whatsoever to whether a movie is good or bad. The "unrated" Die Hard 4.0 is just the same film with some CG blood splatters and the F-word dubbed in where possible.

    I personally don't want a 6. After 4 and especially 5 I don't trust them that it will be any good.
  • mgvsmithmgvsmith Posts: 16,452
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    I actually quite liked Die Hard 4.0.

    DH5 is the first one that really sucks as it dissolved into a humourless, predictable, extremely average action movie.
  • JasonJason Posts: 76,557
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    I didn't realise that there were genuine plans for Die Hard 6 ..

    Although, reading this piece from the Guardian, there does appear to be a degree of hope.
    But look hard enough and you might find the faintest glimmer of promise. A treatment for Die Hardest is being written by Ben Trebilcook, who told Total Film: "There's the possibility producers might go back and find some other source material to base the next one on, like they did with the first and second. Mine though, I feel it could be the Rocky Balboa of the Die Hard franchise."

    The Rocky Balboa reference is key. The sixth Rocky film wasn't perfect by any means, but it did manage to get two things right. First, it reined in the out-of-control bombast – the pastel vests and talking robots and weird Don King impersonations – that had eroded the charm of the first movie. Second, it was an elegant full stop; bringing the story full circle and sending it off in the most touching manner possible.

    If this is the route that Trebilcook plans to take with Die Hardest, then that can only be a good thing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2013/may/03/die-hard-6-willis-balboa

    This part did make me smile though ..
    The Die Hard series has spiralled out beyond all recognition: they're now films about invincible bald-headed supermen who charge headfirst into one breathtakingly unrealistic situation after another and don't stop punching until everyone else is dead. If we wanted to see that, we'd go and watch a Jason Statham film.
  • pburke90pburke90 Posts: 14,753
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    Bruce apparently wants the characters of Al and Holly back for the 6th film, and said that he wants to end the series (or at least his involvement with it) in the 6th film. Wonder if they do get some of the characters from the first 2 films back if they will get Dick Thornburg back or even Zeus?
  • linkinpark875linkinpark875 Posts: 29,686
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    Paddy C wrote: »
    Bruce apparently wants the characters of Al and Holly back for the 6th film, and said that he wants to end the series (or at least his involvement with it) in the 6th film. Wonder if they do get some of the characters from the first 2 films back if they will get Dick Thornburg back or even Zeus?

    Bruce Willis has been doing some low key movies in the past few years Surrogates and recently Vice I enjoyed these movies though.

    The Red 1 and 2 films were quite poor. I reckon Liam Neeson is getting the better action scripts right now.

    Bruce has done films like Looper but again this was poor.
  • sinbad8982sinbad8982 Posts: 1,627
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    Die Hard 4 really wasn't that bad, playing to the 12 certificate was naff but it had a decent premise and Olyphant was a decent baddie, Die Hard 5 however was awful. Personally I find Die Hard 3 a bit dodgy the fact the script was originally going to be the next lethal weapon sequel shows and the ending was pretty weak. Die Hard was the only great movie in the series
  • MrMarpleMrMarple Posts: 3,417
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    roger_50 wrote: »
    There is no comparison between Die Hard 4 and Die Hard 5.

    4 is a decent action movie (regardless of whether it was toned down a bit too much), 5 is utterly terrible in every way.

    Totally agree.

    I can watch 4 and still enjoy it, but I can pretty much guarantee that I'll never watch 5 again. It took me 3 attempts to get through it the first time so I won't be wasting my time again.
  • linkinpark875linkinpark875 Posts: 29,686
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    I agree the 4th was ok but forgettable it never felt like a Die Hard movie..but more so the 5th.
  • Johnny ClayJohnny Clay Posts: 5,315
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    The problem with all the sequels really was that they could match the clear, concise hide-and-seek scenario of the first, where much of its appeal lay. Various factors dictated they should be bigger, but they were also more convoluted and lacked that initial simplicity.

    I enjoyed 4 as splashy popcorn fodder, 2 & 3 never really click, and 5 a dismal cash-grab. As franchises go, it really is all about the first.
  • circlebro2019circlebro2019 Posts: 17,560
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    i really liked 4, the havoc the villain wreaked was great and the yippie ki yay at the end felt very nostalgic

    5 was average,but i still enjoyed it enough.
  • mgvsmithmgvsmith Posts: 16,452
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    Bruce Willis has been doing some low key movies in the past few years Surrogates and recently Vice I enjoyed these movies though.

    The Red 1 and 2 films were quite poor. I reckon Liam Neeson is getting the better action scripts right now.

    Bruce has done films like Looper but again this was poor.

    For low key movies I would have picked 'The Cold Light of Day' and 'Moonrise Kingdom' rather than 'Surrogates'.

    As for Red 1 and 2 they were essentially comedy action movies sending up the action movie genre and doing it rather well. Neeson has made a mixed bag of action movies 'Taken' and 'Unknown' being rather good and 'Non-Stop' and 'Taken 3' being rather bad.

    Looper is actually one of the better, smarter sci-fi movies of recent times.
  • swishbabyswishbaby Posts: 212
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    Just like is the case with any action flick now made, they're dumbed down for the PG13 generation.
  • Ted CTed C Posts: 11,728
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    Bruce Willis has been doing some low key movies in the past few years Surrogates and recently Vice I enjoyed these movies though.

    The Red 1 and 2 films were quite poor. I reckon Liam Neeson is getting the better action scripts right now.

    Bruce has done films like Looper but again this was poor.

    Vice is one of the worst movies he has ever made...and he barely even appears in it anyway.

    And you prefer this to Looper?
  • linkinpark875linkinpark875 Posts: 29,686
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    Vice is one of the worst movies he has ever made...and he barely even appears in it anyway.

    And you prefer this to Looper?

    Yes Looper was one of those action movies that should never have been made. Loads of hype but a let down like Cold Light of Day, Total Recall remake, Parker, The Gambler, Safe House, Maze Runner, Argo, Crank 2, Most Wanted Man..I would add them to the junk pile DVD's.

    In my opinion films like The Adjustment Bureau, Elysium, Unstoppable, Unknown, Last Stand, Source Code, In Time, Limitless, Run All Night, Escape Plan, Edge of Tomorrow, Non Stop, The Equalizer, Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit, The Worlds End, Jack Reacher ect..

    All better movies yet despite decent casts like Matt Damon and Tom Cruise they never got the press they deserved. Argo is the biggest example as it won an Oscar. Total Recall was a disaster of a film. Looper had lots of action sequences and lacked a strong story line. It was neither sci-fi or action was quite a consuming film. :confused:
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