sky have used other drivers car cams to show that he did overtake during a yellow flag,
he has broken the rules and should pay for that. shocked it was not picked up during the race.
More on Ferrari and a possible protest is below. The footage is of a different incident to the one in the picture posted above and both suggest there is something to at least investigate as F1 does make retrospective decisions about what happened in a race.
sky have used other drivers car cams to show that he did overtake during a yellow flag,
he has broken the rules and should pay for that. shocked it was not picked up during the race.
This incident, where Vettel overtakes Kobayashi has been discussed here. That overtake was under a yellow and red flag. Not a yellow flag. Ferrari accept this as a legal overtake.
More on Ferrari and a possible protest is below. The footage is of a different incident to the one in the picture posted above and both suggest there is something to at least investigate as F1 does make retrospective decisions about what happened in a race.
sky have used other drivers car cams to show that he did overtake during a yellow flag,
he has broken the rules and should pay for that. shocked it was not picked up during the race.
Its not as simple as did he overtake under a yellow flag or not. If Vergne slowed down, then Vettel is permitted to overtake under yellows. The FIA would also have to look at Vergnes telemetry to make a judgement.
The other issue here, that RB would say, is that if the stewards missed then tough. It happened very early in the race, so they had plenty of time to issue a penalty. Also I think there is a limit on when the stewards have to declare that they will investigate an incident, 10 laps? If after the limit has passed, then the incident can not be investigated.
RB will argue, that if the stewards saw the incident, and Vettel took the penalty during the race, he could have driven harder, to overtake the next car, to get back into the 6th place he needed. Webber was also infront of Vettel, they would have asked Webber to drop back behind Vettel, which would also have given him the 6th place.
Ferrari have until tomorrow to lodge any complaint, I hope they dont. Its not fair to punish RB, for the stewards mistake.
That's great news if it can be verified that it was taken on the correct lap.
Although I would rather Alonso had won the championship, the time to do it was last Sunday and this kind of nonsense just brings the sport into disrepute.
Also, comments from Alonso such as "I don't rely on luck, I rely on the correct rules to win" don't do much for my opinion of him.:o
That's great news if it can be verified that it was taken on the correct lap.
Although I would rather Alonso had won the championship, the time to do it was last Sunday and this kind of nonsense just brings the sport into disrepute.
Also, comments from Alonso such as "I don't rely on luck, I rely on the correct rules to win" don't do much for my opinion of him.:o
That screenshot is on lap 3, the overtake of Vergne is on lap 4.
I agree, I wanted Alonso to win but certainly not like this. This sort of thing just makes F1 look ridiculous.
On the plus side, if the FIA find in favour of Vettel, we should get rid of the theories about Ferrari International Assistance...
That screenshot also shows lap 3/71. I understood the incident was on lap 4, though was there anything in between that would have possibly changed the green at that point into a yellow
Whatever, it would be quite ridiculous for Vettel to be in any danger of being pushed back, because even if it was a yellow it is surely for the stewards to pick up, especially such an early incident, in the race and give say a drive through penalty during the race, giving Vettel a chance to recover the places he needed rather than being knocked back places at the end when he was driving behind the safety car. I see that a 20 second penalty drops him back just behind Vergne into 8th and then overall 1 point behind Alonso, hmm.
Indeed, I see ACU suggests above that there is a limited period in which the stewards have to say they are investigating an incident. That would make sense.
This should be kicked into touch. Vettel is the champion.
That screenshot is on lap 3, the overtake of Vergne is on lap 4.
I agree, I wanted Alonso to win but certainly not like this. This sort of thing just makes F1 look ridiculous.
On the plus side, if the FIA find in favour of Vettel, we should get rid of the theories about Ferrari International Assistance...
It may be of lap 3 but it shows that the marshall was waving a green flag clearly.
One thing for certain is that marshall was not waving a yellow flag on lap 4.
"According to high level FIA sources, the light panel that was showing yellow for Pastor Maldonado's stricken Williams was shown 100 metres before the next marshal post, which was located near the exit of the pitlane.
At this marshal's post a green flag was being waved on lap four - at the same time as the light signal at Turn Four was displaying green.
The separation of these two posts was about 350 metres and FIA race director Charlie Whiting has made it clear to drivers since lights were introduced more than five years ago that when there are consecutive signals from both a flag and a light, it is the first one that counts." http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104645
You can bet that bitter Ferrari fans will still complain about it though.
Indeed. What I would like to see is Ferrari retrospectively disqualified from the results of the US Grand Prix for acts 'contrary to the image of the sport' i.e. breaking driver number 2 Massa's gearbox seals [which they freely admitted doing] to thus give him a grid penalty and therefore move Alonso up [to the clean side of] the grid a bit at the same time.
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/16058.html
Compare this to Moss speaking up for his rival Hawthorn in 1958, an act which ultimately cost Moss the title. I think aftewards Moss commented that if he had said nothing and thus won the World Championship it would have cheapened and tarnished the whole thing.
Things have changed and ultimately not for the better - today F1 is more of a business than a sport
:mad:
Surely they can verify if there was a green flag on Lap 4 from other cars' cameras and/or the trackside camera shots. If it's hard to see from Vettel's on-board camera then doesn't that suggest it would have been difficult to see from Vettel's POV in which case he shouldn't have gone by the fact the flag was there on Lap 3 and followed the lights. I've no doubt Vettel will keep the title but it does sour the result somewhat. Ferrari can't really win either way.
Surely they can verify if there was a green flag on Lap 4 from other cars' cameras and/or the trackside camera shots. If it's hard to see from Vettel's on-board camera then doesn't that suggest it would have been difficult to see from Vettel's POV in which case he shouldn't have gone by the fact the flag was there on Lap 3 and followed the lights. I've no doubt Vettel will keep the title but it does sour the result somewhat. Ferrari can't really win either way.
"FIA sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that the yellow-flag sector at Interlagos started at the light panel just before Turn 3, at marshal sector 3, and ends about 150m before Turn 4, where a green light panel is displayed.
However, there is a marshal's post in between these two panels and a green flag was being waved there on that lap.
Under the FIA's rules for the Brazilian GP, if a green flag is displayed before a green light - as it was in Vettel's case - it is the first green that counts.
Therefore, the FIA is in no doubt that Vettel's pass was legitimate, which is why race control was not informed of any potential infringement."
So the FIA have apparently verified that there was indeed a green flag being waved at the marshall's post on the required lap. So that SHOULD be the end of things
Comments
he has broken the rules and should pay for that. shocked it was not picked up during the race.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638
This incident, where Vettel overtakes Kobayashi has been discussed here. That overtake was under a yellow and red flag. Not a yellow flag. Ferrari accept this as a legal overtake.
bbc are still reporting that Ferrari are thinking of a protest, Sky seems to think they have put in one.
That overtake was entirely legal.
__
Screenshots are now available that show a green flag:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/e49aa0223107684
The other issue here, that RB would say, is that if the stewards missed then tough. It happened very early in the race, so they had plenty of time to issue a penalty. Also I think there is a limit on when the stewards have to declare that they will investigate an incident, 10 laps? If after the limit has passed, then the incident can not be investigated.
RB will argue, that if the stewards saw the incident, and Vettel took the penalty during the race, he could have driven harder, to overtake the next car, to get back into the 6th place he needed. Webber was also infront of Vettel, they would have asked Webber to drop back behind Vettel, which would also have given him the 6th place.
Ferrari have until tomorrow to lodge any complaint, I hope they dont. Its not fair to punish RB, for the stewards mistake.
Have you not read any of the stuff about the green flag being waved prior to the green light?
That's great news if it can be verified that it was taken on the correct lap.
Although I would rather Alonso had won the championship, the time to do it was last Sunday and this kind of nonsense just brings the sport into disrepute.
Also, comments from Alonso such as "I don't rely on luck, I rely on the correct rules to win" don't do much for my opinion of him.:o
That screenshot is on lap 3, the overtake of Vergne is on lap 4.
I agree, I wanted Alonso to win but certainly not like this. This sort of thing just makes F1 look ridiculous.
On the plus side, if the FIA find in favour of Vettel, we should get rid of the theories about Ferrari International Assistance...
That screenshot also shows lap 3/71. I understood the incident was on lap 4, though was there anything in between that would have possibly changed the green at that point into a yellow
Whatever, it would be quite ridiculous for Vettel to be in any danger of being pushed back, because even if it was a yellow it is surely for the stewards to pick up, especially such an early incident, in the race and give say a drive through penalty during the race, giving Vettel a chance to recover the places he needed rather than being knocked back places at the end when he was driving behind the safety car. I see that a 20 second penalty drops him back just behind Vergne into 8th and then overall 1 point behind Alonso, hmm.
Indeed, I see ACU suggests above that there is a limited period in which the stewards have to say they are investigating an incident. That would make sense.
This should be kicked into touch. Vettel is the champion.
See what Charlie Whiting says in the above article
Looks done and dusted to me [but remembers James Hunt losing the British Grand Prix in 1976 a couple of months after the event :mad:]
The BBC are also saying the same thing. So thats the end of the matter then.
The wheel turns does it not?
One thing for certain is that marshall was not waving a yellow flag on lap 4.
Should be
At this marshal's post a green flag was being waved on lap four - at the same time as the light signal at Turn Four was displaying green.
The separation of these two posts was about 350 metres and FIA race director Charlie Whiting has made it clear to drivers since lights were introduced more than five years ago that when there are consecutive signals from both a flag and a light, it is the first one that counts."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104645
Indeed. What I would like to see is Ferrari retrospectively disqualified from the results of the US Grand Prix for acts 'contrary to the image of the sport' i.e. breaking driver number 2 Massa's gearbox seals [which they freely admitted doing] to thus give him a grid penalty and therefore move Alonso up [to the clean side of] the grid a bit at the same time.
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/16058.html
Compare this to Moss speaking up for his rival Hawthorn in 1958, an act which ultimately cost Moss the title. I think aftewards Moss commented that if he had said nothing and thus won the World Championship it would have cheapened and tarnished the whole thing.
Things have changed and ultimately not for the better - today F1 is more of a business than a sport
:mad:
Yes, sincerly hope so, but not because of anything the BBC are saying :eek:
What appears to clinch it is that the stewards are entirely satisfied that the flag at the exit of the pitlane was green.
"FIA sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that the yellow-flag sector at Interlagos started at the light panel just before Turn 3, at marshal sector 3, and ends about 150m before Turn 4, where a green light panel is displayed.
However, there is a marshal's post in between these two panels and a green flag was being waved there on that lap.
Under the FIA's rules for the Brazilian GP, if a green flag is displayed before a green light - as it was in Vettel's case - it is the first green that counts.
Therefore, the FIA is in no doubt that Vettel's pass was legitimate, which is why race control was not informed of any potential infringement."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104644
So the FIA have apparently verified that there was indeed a green flag being waved at the marshall's post on the required lap. So that SHOULD be the end of things