But why say they're Irish if they're 'Irish-American' though. If they have lived in America all their lives and so have their parents and grandparents then they are primarily American.
And I have never once heard these people say "I'm Irish-American" it's always just "I'm Irish" or "I'm Scottish". And they usually don't even know what Wales is. If they were so proud of your heritage then they would know.
Because they are descended from immigrants and are proud to say they are of Irish etc descent. They probably feel they don't have to say "of Irish descent" because they are crediting you with understanding this already. They only have a few hundred years of history at most as immigrants in the US compared to everywhere else in the world with a couple of thousand years of history to reminisce about.
The majority don't even know what or where Wales is.
I've had educated English friends wonder if they needed their passports to visit me in Scotland. Oh and, wasn't the woman who thought East Anglia (Angular) was abroad English? No one holds the monopoly on stupid. In fact, some of the stupidest people I know are British. However, I have enough sense to realise that their stupidity has f**k all to do with their ethnicity/nationality.
What a sensitive soul you are. It's a pity you lost consciousness as I'm sure it would have been a lively debate between to men who are poles apart on virtually every issue going.
It's this pigheaded, willful misunderstanding of our sentiments which is making my nearest brick wall look mighty tempting.
I'm the sensitive soul?.
Dearie me, I thought my post couldnt have been more laden with playful sarcasm. I was clearly poking fun at the issue.
I would like to be from a diiferent country. If I had foreign blood in me, I would adknowledge(sp) it, but my family have been in Dorset since before the 1700's so we're a tad boring. The family tree goes- John, farmer, Ken, farmer, John, farmer ect:D.:)
As an Irish-American, just want to add in a bit here. Just my perspective, so don't take it as 100% universal fact across the US.
Mostly, like everybody's been saying, Americans don't generally tend to think of themselves that way, reasons varying from person to person, but generally I'd say that heritage is more of a fascination and gives us a sense of pride more than it's used to justify class or anything like that. When asked about it, I reply that I'm 50% English, 25% Irish and 25% German and it's just a really open and common subject to talk about. This is especially true when you get to places like Boston, New York, LA, etc. where there are huge Irish, Italian, Mexican populations and people are very proud of where their ancestors came from, no matter how recent or long ago it was. Since immigration is a very current and prominent thing, it just makes this even more important. I know growing up, I attached myself a lot to UK culture (and still do-that's why I plan on moving there after uni) because everybody else had such a strong sense of pride of where they were from and being 'white' in America isn't really the epitome of culture and fascination, like many on here have been joking about. Since America doesn't really have much history or culture of its own, people just cling to what they did come from and make it a nice mix that, when it all works, educates everybody about different cultures and give people a sense of pride.
Are you sure it isn't because nobody professes to be Welsh?
I think how long ago the various waves of immigration came over is a big part in why some ethnicities are more recognized than others. There were lots of English and Welsh people in the early American colonies, and thus many modern Americans have English and Welsh ancestry. But that was very, very long ago. Some other waves of immigration were much more recent and distinct.
I have at least some Welsh ancestors, but the ones I know about came over here in the early 1700s or late 1600s, so it would be a stretch to label myself as such. Mathematically you're barely even related to ancestors from that long ago, and I don't know where all of the hundreds of ancestors from that time period came from. But around 5 of my 8 great-grandparents were from Irish immigrant families who came to work in a factory town around the Industrial Revolution, so that part is much more recent and much easier to pinpoint. Personally I just consider myself "American", but I don't resent people who prefer another identity, since "American" isn't an ethnicity, just a nationality.
Dearie me, I thought my post couldnt have been more laden with playful sarcasm. I was clearly poking fun at the issue.
Well, I didn't think you literally beat your head against a brick wall, but your comment was in keeping with previous comments on this subject. If those were also sarcastic, then I take it all back.
Nothing at all. It only become a problem when they all start claiming they're Scottish too.
They're not claiming the nationality, they're describing their ancestry. European countries for the most part are both a nationality and an ethnicity, due to the age and history of those places. America is only a nationality and not an ethnicity, so many Americans have both an American nationality and an ethnicity, until they become too mixed to be considered any specific ethnicity.
You are choosing to pretend to misunderstand them when in fact you know perfectly well what they're referring to. This is not a problem with the people you're speaking to, but a problem with your own personality that makes you hostile with them.
A person with South Asian ancestry is never going to be considered fully English by some in the UK. If they're born in England they're English by nationality, but it's undeniable that in terms of ethnicity they also have another identity.
As an Irish-American, just want to add in a bit here. Just my perspective, so don't take it as 100% universal fact across the US.
Mostly, like everybody's been saying, Americans don't generally tend to think of themselves that way, reasons varying from person to person, but generally I'd say that heritage is more of a fascination and gives us a sense of pride more than it's used to justify class or anything like that. When asked about it, I reply that I'm 50% English, 25% Irish and 25% German and it's just a really open and common subject to talk about. This is especially true when you get to places like Boston, New York, LA, etc. where there are huge Irish, Italian, Mexican populations and people are very proud of where their ancestors came from, no matter how recent or long ago it was. Since immigration is a very current and prominent thing, it just makes this even more important. I know growing up, I attached myself a lot to UK culture (and still do-that's why I plan on moving there after uni) because everybody else had such a strong sense of pride of where they were from and being 'white' in America isn't really the epitome of culture and fascination, like many on here have been joking about. Since America doesn't really have much history or culture of its own, people just cling to what they did come from and make it a nice mix that, when it all works, educates everybody about different cultures and give people a sense of pride.
Could not disagree more and I don't even know where to begin. Maybe you should start by picking up some Jazz albums, then maybe some Mark Twain or Walt Whitman. And as I'm sure you know, American history did not begin with the first white settlers. There were people and a civilization there long before my first ancestors arrived, and even though too much of that civilization has been relegated to the past, there are still vestiges of it to be appreciated. I used to go every summer to an All Nations Pow-pow with my best friend who is from the Haida-Tlingit nation, and I'll tell you now, you haven't lived until you've had fry bread . But, It's all relative, anyway, kind of like if someone from India or China were to tell an Englishman he has no history or culture. Good luck with your immigration.
Americans probably ARE claiming simply the ancestry when they 'I am Irish/Scottish' etc.
However to our ears, when they do, it sounds as if they are claiming to actually be Irish/Scottish/A N Other Nationality, as if they were born and bred there.
Americans probably ARE claiming simply the ancestry when they 'I am Irish/Scottish' etc.
However to our ears, when they do, it sounds as if they are claiming to actually be Irish/Scottish/A N Other Nationality, as if they were born and bred there.
Well, now that you know the truth, you can help spread the word and put an end to this silly nit-picking once and for all!
As an Irish-American, just want to add in a bit here. Just my perspective, so don't take it as 100% universal fact across the US.
Mostly, like everybody's been saying, Americans don't generally tend to think of themselves that way, reasons varying from person to person, but generally I'd say that heritage is more of a fascination and gives us a sense of pride more than it's used to justify class or anything like that. When asked about it, I reply that I'm 50% English, 25% Irish and 25% German and it's just a really open and common subject to talk about. This is especially true when you get to places like Boston, New York, LA, etc. where there are huge Irish, Italian, Mexican populations and people are very proud of where their ancestors came from, no matter how recent or long ago it was. Since immigration is a very current and prominent thing, it just makes this even more important. I know growing up, I attached myself a lot to UK culture (and still do-that's why I plan on moving there after uni) because everybody else had such a strong sense of pride of where they were from and being 'white' in America isn't really the epitome of culture and fascination, like many on here have been joking about. Since America doesn't really have much history or culture of its own, people just cling to what they did come from and make it a nice mix that, when it all works, educates everybody about different cultures and give people a sense of pride.
The problem is that showing such pride of where you come from (and unless you were born there, you DON'T COME FROM THERE) is disrespectful to the actual place where you actually come from, which is the USA, I assume. Apologies if you actually were born and raised in another country and I'm making assumptions.
That sense of pride to me just seems desperate. As an English person I don't enjoy seeing people who have never been here and have no clue what it means to be English talking about their "pride" of being English. Y ou're not English. You're American. Smile and enjoy it. Maybe if more people were proud to be American nobody would need to disassociate themselves from it by claiming to be from somewhere else. If people spent more time researching American history and culture and less time on their own geneology they would realise that there are a lot of things in American history to be proud of. Hell, there are a lot of things that I admire and enjoy reading about, even though I'm English and the USA overall is not one of my favourite places.
That phrase "roots" makes me want to scream. For an American person wo was born and raised in Seattle by parents who were born and raised in the USA, their roots are in Seattle! I've seen so many occasions of "yeah, my great-grandparents came from England in 1876, I'm so proud of my English roots".
Yeah, my ancestors came from Italy and Sweden. I am so proud of my Roman-Viking roots.
Ahh but the reason why so many Americans are interested in it is because they know their ancestors were from somewhere else, that's my point. And thus it becomes fascinating to them.
The ones who aren't are usually the WASP Americans, as they were considered the real Americans anyway by default as the establishment in America favoured them and didn't need to look further back to find an identity.
I think they have a strong connection to Ireland because their ansestors were driving away from their country and that gives them the feeling that they have a strong connection with their past, they have a need to work it all out, like unfinished business
Americans probably ARE claiming simply the ancestry when they 'I am Irish/Scottish' etc.
However to our ears, when they do, it sounds as if they are claiming to actually be Irish/Scottish/A N Other Nationality, as if they were born and bred there.
Its because Irish and Scotish were driven out by the english and they have unfinished feelings which gives them a strong connection with their past ansestory
The first line of the artical says 'There is an aspect of Irish American ' hardly the same as saying that they were central to the white supremacy movement :rolleyes:
ummm thats an interesting interpretation on irish history.
People with Irish ansestory love saying their irish, no matter where ya go people love it when you say your irish, Ive been to many places where they thought I was english and when I told them no I'm irish there faces just light up and they tell ya that they love the irish
Comments
Are you sure it isn't because nobody professes to be Welsh?
Because they are descended from immigrants and are proud to say they are of Irish etc descent. They probably feel they don't have to say "of Irish descent" because they are crediting you with understanding this already. They only have a few hundred years of history at most as immigrants in the US compared to everywhere else in the world with a couple of thousand years of history to reminisce about.
The majority don't even know what or where Wales is.
Funny that, because all but one American I've told that I'm from Wales has known exactly where it was and the one who didn't was about 8 years old.
I've had educated English friends wonder if they needed their passports to visit me in Scotland. Oh and, wasn't the woman who thought East Anglia (Angular) was abroad English? No one holds the monopoly on stupid. In fact, some of the stupidest people I know are British. However, I have enough sense to realise that their stupidity has f**k all to do with their ethnicity/nationality.
I'm the sensitive soul?.
Dearie me, I thought my post couldnt have been more laden with playful sarcasm. I was clearly poking fun at the issue.
You really have based your entire knowledge of Americans on general stereotypes. Just because you think it, doesn't make it true.
Mostly, like everybody's been saying, Americans don't generally tend to think of themselves that way, reasons varying from person to person, but generally I'd say that heritage is more of a fascination and gives us a sense of pride more than it's used to justify class or anything like that. When asked about it, I reply that I'm 50% English, 25% Irish and 25% German and it's just a really open and common subject to talk about. This is especially true when you get to places like Boston, New York, LA, etc. where there are huge Irish, Italian, Mexican populations and people are very proud of where their ancestors came from, no matter how recent or long ago it was. Since immigration is a very current and prominent thing, it just makes this even more important. I know growing up, I attached myself a lot to UK culture (and still do-that's why I plan on moving there after uni) because everybody else had such a strong sense of pride of where they were from and being 'white' in America isn't really the epitome of culture and fascination, like many on here have been joking about. Since America doesn't really have much history or culture of its own, people just cling to what they did come from and make it a nice mix that, when it all works, educates everybody about different cultures and give people a sense of pride.
I think how long ago the various waves of immigration came over is a big part in why some ethnicities are more recognized than others. There were lots of English and Welsh people in the early American colonies, and thus many modern Americans have English and Welsh ancestry. But that was very, very long ago. Some other waves of immigration were much more recent and distinct.
I have at least some Welsh ancestors, but the ones I know about came over here in the early 1700s or late 1600s, so it would be a stretch to label myself as such. Mathematically you're barely even related to ancestors from that long ago, and I don't know where all of the hundreds of ancestors from that time period came from. But around 5 of my 8 great-grandparents were from Irish immigrant families who came to work in a factory town around the Industrial Revolution, so that part is much more recent and much easier to pinpoint. Personally I just consider myself "American", but I don't resent people who prefer another identity, since "American" isn't an ethnicity, just a nationality.
Well, I didn't think you literally beat your head against a brick wall, but your comment was in keeping with previous comments on this subject. If those were also sarcastic, then I take it all back.
They're not claiming the nationality, they're describing their ancestry. European countries for the most part are both a nationality and an ethnicity, due to the age and history of those places. America is only a nationality and not an ethnicity, so many Americans have both an American nationality and an ethnicity, until they become too mixed to be considered any specific ethnicity.
You are choosing to pretend to misunderstand them when in fact you know perfectly well what they're referring to. This is not a problem with the people you're speaking to, but a problem with your own personality that makes you hostile with them.
A person with South Asian ancestry is never going to be considered fully English by some in the UK. If they're born in England they're English by nationality, but it's undeniable that in terms of ethnicity they also have another identity.
Could not disagree more and I don't even know where to begin. Maybe you should start by picking up some Jazz albums, then maybe some Mark Twain or Walt Whitman. And as I'm sure you know, American history did not begin with the first white settlers. There were people and a civilization there long before my first ancestors arrived, and even though too much of that civilization has been relegated to the past, there are still vestiges of it to be appreciated. I used to go every summer to an All Nations Pow-pow with my best friend who is from the Haida-Tlingit nation, and I'll tell you now, you haven't lived until you've had fry bread
http://www.examiner.com/irish-american-culture-in-national/examining-irish-americans-and-the-white-supremacy-movement-on-martin-luther-king-day
Do you know why the Irish call Americans "Plastic Paddies"?
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090210010945AAmcdVQ
However to our ears, when they do, it sounds as if they are claiming to actually be Irish/Scottish/A N Other Nationality, as if they were born and bred there.
Well, now that you know the truth, you can help spread the word and put an end to this silly nit-picking once and for all!
Actually, some of very aware of and proud of their Welsh roots and connections.
http://americymru.ning.com/
http://www.chicagotafia.com/
http://www.idahowelshsociety.org/welshamerican.htm
http://www.scorchedhawkpress.com/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/waleshistory/2010/09/welsh_presidents_of_the_usa.html
Must get some more arrows...
The problem is that showing such pride of where you come from (and unless you were born there, you DON'T COME FROM THERE) is disrespectful to the actual place where you actually come from, which is the USA, I assume. Apologies if you actually were born and raised in another country and I'm making assumptions.
That sense of pride to me just seems desperate. As an English person I don't enjoy seeing people who have never been here and have no clue what it means to be English talking about their "pride" of being English. Y ou're not English. You're American. Smile and enjoy it. Maybe if more people were proud to be American nobody would need to disassociate themselves from it by claiming to be from somewhere else. If people spent more time researching American history and culture and less time on their own geneology they would realise that there are a lot of things in American history to be proud of. Hell, there are a lot of things that I admire and enjoy reading about, even though I'm English and the USA overall is not one of my favourite places.
That phrase "roots" makes me want to scream. For an American person wo was born and raised in Seattle by parents who were born and raised in the USA, their roots are in Seattle! I've seen so many occasions of "yeah, my great-grandparents came from England in 1876, I'm so proud of my English roots".
Yeah, my ancestors came from Italy and Sweden. I am so proud of my Roman-Viking roots.
Ridiculous when put that way, isn't it?
Its because Irish and Scotish were driven out by the english and they have unfinished feelings which gives them a strong connection with their past ansestory
The first line of the artical says 'There is an aspect of Irish American ' hardly the same as saying that they were central to the white supremacy movement :rolleyes:
People with Irish ansestory love saying their irish, no matter where ya go people love it when you say your irish, Ive been to many places where they thought I was english and when I told them no I'm irish there faces just light up and they tell ya that they love the irish