I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone had seen an early pre-release of the box doing instant deletes.
I would guess that Humax found, at a late stage, that the concentrated activity within the file system when a delete is performed cause occasional instability in recording (buffer underruns) and the current cludge was a workaround that was inelegant but functionally solid.
It does seem bizarre that delete takes such a long time. My old Thomson DHD4000 deletes instantly even whilst recording two programs. I can't see how updating the file system TOC to mark the previously used space as being free should take as long as it does? Can anyone confirm whether deleting a single smaller recording takes the same time or longer than a larger recording. If longer recordings take longer to delete then apart from marking the TOC location as free space it is obviously doing something else.
It does seem bizarre that delete takes such a long time. My old Thomson DHD4000 deletes instantly even whilst recording two programs. I can't see how updating the file system TOC to mark the previously used space as being free should take as long as it does? Can anyone confirm whether deleting a single smaller recording takes the same time or longer than a larger recording. If longer recordings take longer to delete then apart from marking the TOC location as free space it is obviously doing something else.
Just deleted a 3min test recording, took 3 seconds.
If longer recordings take longer to delete then apart from marking the TOC location as free space it is obviously doing something else.
There are some other things it has to do. Remember that it is not a single file that is being deleted. There are also the two sidecar files and the thumbnails that it creates overnight (might be in one of the sidecars, anyone know?). Apart form the fact that longer recordings will have more thumbnails, can't see why this would dramatically affect deletion time, though.
At the present time it is the only one available!!!
Apart from using your brain to remember which recordings you've watched and do not wish to keep.
If you remember you proposed this workaround to support your contention that Humax did not need to do something about the delete problem.
I'm sure you now realise that you are pretty much alone alone in that belief and the vast majority of posters who have expressed an opinion would like something a little more professional.
Apart from using your brain to remember which recordings you've watched and do not wish to keep.
This is what I suggested in the first place!! I actually said "If you can't remember what programmes you have already watched you could create a folder called 'Delete'......
I'm sure you now realise that you are pretty much alone alone in that belief and the vast majority of posters who have expressed an opinion would like something a little more professional.
Majority of posters is not, of course, necessarily equal to the majority of users. In reality I suspect the majority of users do not read these forum pages.
At the end of the day it is not me or other posters on this site who have to make decisions about what is or is not changed.
Humax must make a judgement about their product and I am sure they will do this in the light of whatever they anticipate their competitors may or may not do. To my mind their HDR has far more positives than negatives and unlike the Sky+ box I used to use does not require an ongoing subscription.
If Humax do introduce changes I would rather they focus on the bigger potential future developments rather than small things like this.
If Humax do introduce changes I would rather they focus on the bigger potential future developments rather than small things like this.
Whereas if Humax really do want to crack the mainstream with this device, refining "small things like this" is exactly what they need to do.
If the success of Apple has (or should have!) taught consumer electronics companies anything, it's that "normal people" are much more interested in devices that do the basics really well and are simple to operate, than in devices which do everything but require a technical manual to use properly.
This is what I suggested in the first place!! I actually said "If you can't remember what programmes you have already watched you could create a folder called 'Delete'......
Yes, you proposed a 'delete' folder as a workaround. That was not a popular suggestion.
No I said "I don't think there is any need for this facility" - This remains my personal view - this is an issue which does not cause me any problems
That is just what I said: You proposed the folder to support your view that an enhancement was not necessary. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it here.
Majority of posters is not, of course, necessarily equal to the majority of users.
Not that lame old comeback, please.
This forum has a greater preponderance of tech-savvy users that is present in the public at large. Even amongst such people, who would be far more likely to be interested in the things that you want there was a massive majority for getting the basics right first.
Humax must make a judgement about their product and I am sure they will do this in the light of whatever they anticipate their competitors may or may not do.
If they've any sense they'll do it in the light of what will make people buy their box.
That's far more likely to be an absence of clunky amateurish fudges than flash gew-gaws. People want a PVR that does a first rate job of being a PVR.
If Humax do introduce changes I would rather they focus on the bigger potential future developments rather than small things like this.
You are certainly in a minority here and commonsense would indicate that you are in an even smaller minority amongst the general PVR buying public.
Apart from using your brain to remember which recordings you've watched and do not wish to keep.
If you remember you proposed this workaround to support your contention that Humax did not need to do something about the delete problem.
I'm sure you now realise that you are pretty much alone alone in that belief and the vast majority of posters who have expressed an opinion would like something a little more professional.
He's not alone I don't find the slow delete a problem at all. Simply group select anything you want to delete and let the stb get on with it. Frankly to get so het up over such a small problem- take a pill
He's not alone I don't find the slow delete a problem at all. Simply group select anything you want to delete and let the stb get on with it.
I did say he was in a minority, not that he was alone.
We were talking about more than just the slow delete.
Frankly to get so het up over such a small problem- take a pill.
Not sure that anyone's that het up about it. Generally people seem to feel that it would be nice if the delete thing was handled a little more professionally.
I'm on record as saying that even if they never issue a single update I'll still be extremely happy with the box.
I don't want to get involved in any of the arguments here but I will make some simple clarifications:
* Deleting files in the background is possible, however it presents many challenges. The simplest and most obvious of which is how to deal with the "space available" graph, people will either complain that it hasn't changed (because the delete hasn't happened yet) or if we do change the graph there could be issues where someone wants to transfer/record something and there isn't the space available. The simplest solution, at present, is to delete in real time.
I have read with interest the debate about deleting files. I remember the days of changes associated with the 9200 and how it has become a breeze to use by non techies, i.e. my wife! This feature is a must have. To have to remember what you have watched and go back and delete later is a non starter. For anyone "upgrading" from a 9200 to a HDR will see this as a significant loss of features. I don't care about the hard disk graph being 100% accurate!
I'm somewhat bemused at why HUMAX haven't just ported the best bits from the 9200 with improvements to the HDR. Making it look and feel like a computer, file manager etc is great for the techies but a switch off for non techies. I love it, but my with (major user) will take some convincing. I'll be keeping the 9200 along side for the foreseeable future, until updates improve some basis fuctions. HUMAX don't loose sight of your simple users requirements!!
Comments
It does seem bizarre that delete takes such a long time. My old Thomson DHD4000 deletes instantly even whilst recording two programs. I can't see how updating the file system TOC to mark the previously used space as being free should take as long as it does? Can anyone confirm whether deleting a single smaller recording takes the same time or longer than a larger recording. If longer recordings take longer to delete then apart from marking the TOC location as free space it is obviously doing something else.
Deleted a 104 min HD Film, took 35 seconds.
Rgds.
Les.
Cheers. So I wonder what else it does apart from mark the TOC entry as free space?
There are some other things it has to do. Remember that it is not a single file that is being deleted. There are also the two sidecar files and the thumbnails that it creates overnight (might be in one of the sidecars, anyone know?). Apart form the fact that longer recordings will have more thumbnails, can't see why this would dramatically affect deletion time, though.
At the present time it is the only one available!!!
Ooh, yes, forgot about this. That alone would do away with most of the UI problems regarding deferred deletions.
Apart from using your brain to remember which recordings you've watched and do not wish to keep.
If you remember you proposed this workaround to support your contention that Humax did not need to do something about the delete problem.
I'm sure you now realise that you are pretty much alone alone in that belief and the vast majority of posters who have expressed an opinion would like something a little more professional.
This is what I suggested in the first place!! I actually said "If you can't remember what programmes you have already watched you could create a folder called 'Delete'......
No I said "I don't think there is any need for this facility" - This remains my personal view - this is an issue which does not cause me any problems
Majority of posters is not, of course, necessarily equal to the majority of users. In reality I suspect the majority of users do not read these forum pages.
At the end of the day it is not me or other posters on this site who have to make decisions about what is or is not changed.
Humax must make a judgement about their product and I am sure they will do this in the light of whatever they anticipate their competitors may or may not do. To my mind their HDR has far more positives than negatives and unlike the Sky+ box I used to use does not require an ongoing subscription.
If Humax do introduce changes I would rather they focus on the bigger potential future developments rather than small things like this.
Whereas if Humax really do want to crack the mainstream with this device, refining "small things like this" is exactly what they need to do.
If the success of Apple has (or should have!) taught consumer electronics companies anything, it's that "normal people" are much more interested in devices that do the basics really well and are simple to operate, than in devices which do everything but require a technical manual to use properly.
Yes, you proposed a 'delete' folder as a workaround. That was not a popular suggestion.
That is just what I said: You proposed the folder to support your view that an enhancement was not necessary. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it here.
Not that lame old comeback, please.
This forum has a greater preponderance of tech-savvy users that is present in the public at large. Even amongst such people, who would be far more likely to be interested in the things that you want there was a massive majority for getting the basics right first.
If they've any sense they'll do it in the light of what will make people buy their box.
That's far more likely to be an absence of clunky amateurish fudges than flash gew-gaws. People want a PVR that does a first rate job of being a PVR.
You are certainly in a minority here and commonsense would indicate that you are in an even smaller minority amongst the general PVR buying public.
He's not alone I don't find the slow delete a problem at all. Simply group select anything you want to delete and let the stb get on with it. Frankly to get so het up over such a small problem- take a pill
I think it is obvious who is arguing for the sake of it. I'm OUT:)
We were talking about more than just the slow delete.
Not sure that anyone's that het up about it. Generally people seem to feel that it would be nice if the delete thing was handled a little more professionally.
I'm on record as saying that even if they never issue a single update I'll still be extremely happy with the box.