[QUOTE=
If you want a show with a female Time Lord there is The Rani or River Song for that.[/QUOTE]
Or Romana, or Susan (if she is a Time Lord), or even Leela 'behind the scenes from an outsider's POV or what they really get up to when they'e not being annoying'
We already have a female Doctor in some ways Jenny lets not forget Jenny is clone of the Doctor not his daughter and was only called that as a inside joke.
Plus anyone who would stop watching for that reason isn't really a true fan of the show I like to see them do it just to see them cry and sulk over it
First off forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm not a James Bond fan
In the books and first 30 years of film wasn't M a man until Judi Dench came along
M is the title of the head of the secret service, and as such is a governmental appointment, not a person.
Judi Dench was probably cast because Stella Rimmington had been appointed head of MI5, and it offered a link to real life, just like earlier Bond films had featured a Mrs Thatcher soundalike, and during her tenure as PM the Bond films referred to the PM as 'she'
We already have a female Doctor in some ways Jenny lets not forget Jenny is clone of the Doctor not his daughter and was only called that as a inside joke.
Plus anyone who would stop watching for that reason isn't really a true fan of the show I like to see them do it just to see them cry and sulk over it
I disagree with your last sentence. To be a true fan is to accept whatever travesty is done to the story? I used to be a big Star Wars fan, but it jumped the shark with Episode I. Now, I don't care that they are making new movies in the next several years and I won't see them in the theater. Should we just accept whatever pablum or tripe (medi-clorians?, Han shot first? Jar-Jar Binks?) that the creators of a mythos want to give us? And if we don't accept all of this crap then we are not "true fans"?
I used to be a giant Battlestar Galactica fan. When I was a kid and it showed on T.V. (yes, I am in my forties), Starbuck was my hero. He was a roguish male with whom I could identify. When they re-did the show recently, I heard that Starbuck had been made into a female. I refused to watch the show. I never have and I never will.
Have you seen the garbage that passes as a Highlander movie these days? I can't be a fan of the original movie unless I accept the (how many now? Five or six?) really crappy sequels?
We have a right to complain and not participate whenever an original story that we have loved for decades has been perverted, set askew and/or made into garbage. We can still love the original or we can also believe that that has been tainted beyond salvaging.
Doctor Who has even more history. 50 years of history (or 33-34 Seasons if you want to look at it that way). To take a character whom young men have emulated, admired and wanted to be all of their lives and change the character to a female (which will undoubtedly change many of the character's traits as well as one large aspect of their identity) would not only be horribly gimmicky, but would be a giant turn off to those of us men who identify and admire the character so much.
There are few enough good, solid male role models these days. Most of the men on T.V. are wimps, cowards, evil or just plain incompetent (early Mickey being a great example of this). Why take away one of the very few, long-standing good male role models that we have left in what would only be perceived by many as a cop-out, a gimmick or an all-out surrender to "equality".
Like I said before, Doctor Who is filled with very, very strong female characters to look up to from River Song, Amy, the current super-amazing side kick du jour and "whatever random middle-aged woman they find who can drive a mech without ever having seen one before, save an alien race of beings inside her body, fly an alien space ship that she has never seen before and save her entire family including her husband as he flies over the Atlantic" they have in the show this week. (Seriously, from Queens to French King's concubines, the show has scoured history and modern day to find any woman that they can present as strong and hyper-competent.) Amazing women are already over-represented on the show; there is no need to take the only strong male character from us.
Plus anyone who would stop watching for that reason isn't really a true fan of the show I like to see them do it just to see them cry and sulk over it
I don't usually read these "Let's have a female Doctor" threads because they are tedious in the extreme - surely anyone who has an opinion has posted it on the previous 507 similar threads we've had in the last week or two?
When you say "cry and sulk" you mean like the OP?
I could turn your statement around and say that anyone who would continue to watch if there was a female Doctor is not a "true fan".
You would like to see our favourite show ruined just so you could have the pleasure of watching other people being upset by it? Really?
I've seen some mean comments on here in my time, but yours takes the biscuit.
You would like to see our favourite show ruined just so you could have the pleasure of watching other people being upset by it? Really?
I've seen some mean comments on here in my time, but yours takes the biscuit.
Why would it be ruined what difference would it really make at end of the day as long as the actress was good and the writing it could and would work.
As much as I say I wouldn't watch again if Amy returned I know I would I love the show and no matter what they did I'd still tune in every week as most other fans would casual fans wouldn't care and die hard fans couldn't bring themselves to stop watching.
I see posts saying they will stop watching certain shows if they did this every week on other sites I go on and when they do the same fans are still there next week watching.
The Doctor should never be female. All of my friends and myself who purchase, collect and watch the show would stop watching and stop collecting.
Heaven forbid that you and your friends not get exactly what you want.
For all of you who, for some unknown reason, keep wanting The Doctor to be female, just give it up. The Doctor is the only good male role model that we have on the show. Women have every single sidekick being amazing. Also, every single episode seems to have some random, amazing woman who can save the world. While us men have one character with whom to relate: The Doctor. If you made him female, there would be no reason whatsoever to watch the show for most of us.
Your argument contradicts your premise. The Doctor's sidekicks are female because he is male. If the Doctor were female, she would have kick-ass male companions. Yin-yang, and all that.
Why would it be ruined what difference would it really make at end of the day as long as the actress was good and the writing it could and would work.
As much as I say I wouldn't watch again if Amy returned I know I would I love the show and no matter what they did I'd still tune in every week as most other fans would casual fans wouldn't care and die hard fans couldn't bring themselves to stop watching.
I see posts saying they will stop watching certain shows if they did this every week on other sites I go on and when they do the same fans are still there next week watching.
I don't really care whether people stop watching or not. That's up to them, and if the show loses some, it gains some as well.
For me, the Doctor is male. A similar show with a female lead is not Doctor Who, it's something else.
Anyone who might want to watch that is welcome to it. I don't. I won't sulk and cry, or come on here week after week to say how bad it is, but that I must keep watching because I'm a "true fan" - an attitude I find incomprehensible and, actually, risible. I just won't watch.
I'm not going to debate the issue, however - see my post above about how boring I find the whole subject.
Heaven forbid that you and your friends not get exactly what you want.
Your argument contradicts your premise. The Doctor's sidekicks are female because he is male. If the Doctor were female, she would have kick-ass male companions. Yin-yang, and all that.
Your first sentence is insulting and patronizing. The fact that you so quickly resorted to sarcasm is a wonderful admission of defeat on the merits of the argument.
Also, your final sentence is an assumption. Just because The Doctor was changed to a female character does not mean that the sidekick dynamic would necessarily change whatsoever.
Finally, why in the world would they risk a show with such a long history on such a gimmick? Wasn't there a convention where Moffat asked who would stop watching the show if The Doctor was female and 90% + of the audience raised their hands? Stop trying to rewrite a classic and leave well enough alone.
There is nothing about The Doctor as a character that dictates he should always be male. I'd watch and form my opinion based on the writing and acting, as I always do. I find something a bit sad in the attitudes of people who gladly admit they would blindly abandon the show over such a trivial detail.
There is nothing about The Doctor as a character that dictates he should always be male.
There are male and female Timelords that have never changed gender in the past and they grew up male on Gallifrey.
I wouldn't abandon the show without giving it a go but I can't help think that if they feel the need to change the gender of The Doctor it would be because the show was in decline and they were trying to grab ratings and headlines rather than the because it was the correct thing to do for the story.
See with the Doctor it's been a secret he's been hiding from his entire life - apart from one incarnation who came out of the closet and became known as the Nurse
The Doctor should never be female. All of my friends and myself who purchase, collect and watch the show would stop watching and stop collecting. We have discussed this at great length before because it seems to come up on this forum every other week.
A lot think that way. The Doctor is a super-hero for young people, he's an action-figure, a comic-book type of hero, a role model. The BBC would not risk that for the sake of politcal correctness.
It's also not very 'feminist' to have a female Doctor. It would be more like a spin off. Not the real thing.
It's an interesting subject: as a woman, I have always imagined being 'protected' by the Dr (in the way that Rose says "my Doctor"). Might sound silly, but that's just the way it is. I wonder how men relate to the Dr?
Although the tables would be turned and we could potentially have some hot male sidekicks for a female Dr, my preference is still for the Dr to be male.
The Docotr says himself one Timelord was sometimes male sometimes female if that one could do it maybe others could to.
And for me when 10 regenerated into 11 he said
"I'm a girl" he didn't say it like it was something impossible
Anyway he has aloes picked up some of Rivers regenerations so what if that is literal and he gets the bodies she was supposed to have
Yes, one lie and one quick panicky quip during a regeneration; both during Moffat's time. Basically, this is Moffat trying to change the nature of Time Lords to fit his own vision of them. For example he wrote this 1999(?) Doctor Who Comedy Relief special where The Doctor does (after several male regenerations) change into a woman and then sticks with that body:
Moffat has been, over the course of decades now, trying to worm this into the Doctor Who mythology. Why? Who knows? Maybe he has something against The Doctor being male. I have no idea. However, this whole Doctor-changing-sexes thing started with him and has wormed its way into the show through him.
Just remember, The Doctor lies. And, most importantly, Moffat lies (a lot; Doctor Who will take over the T.V., yeah right). None of this was ever part of the Doctor Who before.
I can't stand Moffat's screwing around with the show and I would abandon it if The Doctor became a female. Moffat has been screwing around with things for years (two humans can have sex in The Tardis and the baby is born a Time Lord? What? Seriously?), but that would be one bridge too far.
I have never understood this need some people seem to have for the Doctor to become female.
Perhaps it is from men who feel this need themselves but dare not admit it, so instead project their feelings onto a handy programme.
The Doctor is a male character, he has male attributes and attitudes (at times even being quite chauvinistic). After 50 years you'd think people would be used to idea that he is male.
This is not a chauvinistic attitude on my part. After all I would be unhappy if they re-booted Wonder Woman and made her male. 'She' is female, with (very) female attributes and attitudes. I wouldn't like to see the re-boot having 'David Prince' spin around and become Wonder Woman. (though saying that - I have known certain people who would probably be attracted to that kind of programme )
It's an interesting subject: as a woman, I have always imagined being 'protected' by the Dr (in the way that Rose says "my Doctor"). Might sound silly, but that's just the way it is.
.
It doesn't sound silly to me - I know exactly what you mean.
It does make me wonder how people can't see that the whole essence of the Doctor is male, with everything that goes with it, for good and ill.
Would they really react to a female Doctor in the same way? I wouldn't - I'd feel I'd lost him, however good the female Doctor and her stories may be.
The Doctor should never be female. All of my friends and myself who purchase, collect and watch the show would stop watching and stop collecting. We have discussed this at great length before because it seems to come up on this forum every other week.
For all of you who, for some unknown reason, keep wanting The Doctor to be female, just give it up. The Doctor is the only good male role model that we have on the show. Women have every single sidekick being amazing. Also, every single episode seems to have some random, amazing woman who can save the world. While us men have one character with whom to relate: The Doctor. If you made him female, there would be no reason whatsoever to watch the show for most of us.
If you want a show with a female Time Lord there is The Rani or River Song for that.
There has been a female Doctor/Time Lady..... in the original series, she was played by Mary Tamm (subsequently played by Lala Ward) in the guise of Romana.... in a Children In Need Special, the Doctor regenerated into Joanna Lumley.
Your first sentence is insulting and patronizing. The fact that you so quickly resorted to sarcasm is a wonderful admission of defeat on the merits of the argument.
Your conclusion does not follow. Sarcasm is a perfectly legitimate response to an argument not based in logic. You cannot seriously be saying that the Doctor cannot be female because you and your friends would stop buying stuff. Debate cannot counter a statement like that. And to follow that with, "Everyone who disagrees should just give up disagreeing, because we're right"? Humour is the only possible response.
Also, your final sentence is an assumption. Just because The Doctor was changed to a female character does not mean that the sidekick dynamic would necessarily change whatsoever.
My point was not that the sidekick dynamic would have to change, but that your fears that there would be no male role model in the series are unfounded, as a female Doctor could quite easily have a male sidekick, if they felt the male-female dynamic was important.
Which brings us to a further question about why the lack of male role models would be seen as a problem at all.
I don't think for a second that they'll make the Doctor female. But because much of society isn't ready for the transition, not because the Doctor is inherently masculine in character.
Comments
If you want a show with a female Time Lord there is The Rani or River Song for that.[/QUOTE]
Or Romana, or Susan (if she is a Time Lord), or even Leela 'behind the scenes from an outsider's POV or what they really get up to when they'e not being annoying'
Plus anyone who would stop watching for that reason isn't really a true fan of the show I like to see them do it just to see them cry and sulk over it
M is the title of the head of the secret service, and as such is a governmental appointment, not a person.
Judi Dench was probably cast because Stella Rimmington had been appointed head of MI5, and it offered a link to real life, just like earlier Bond films had featured a Mrs Thatcher soundalike, and during her tenure as PM the Bond films referred to the PM as 'she'
I disagree with your last sentence. To be a true fan is to accept whatever travesty is done to the story? I used to be a big Star Wars fan, but it jumped the shark with Episode I. Now, I don't care that they are making new movies in the next several years and I won't see them in the theater. Should we just accept whatever pablum or tripe (medi-clorians?, Han shot first? Jar-Jar Binks?) that the creators of a mythos want to give us? And if we don't accept all of this crap then we are not "true fans"?
I used to be a giant Battlestar Galactica fan. When I was a kid and it showed on T.V. (yes, I am in my forties), Starbuck was my hero. He was a roguish male with whom I could identify. When they re-did the show recently, I heard that Starbuck had been made into a female. I refused to watch the show. I never have and I never will.
Have you seen the garbage that passes as a Highlander movie these days? I can't be a fan of the original movie unless I accept the (how many now? Five or six?) really crappy sequels?
We have a right to complain and not participate whenever an original story that we have loved for decades has been perverted, set askew and/or made into garbage. We can still love the original or we can also believe that that has been tainted beyond salvaging.
Doctor Who has even more history. 50 years of history (or 33-34 Seasons if you want to look at it that way). To take a character whom young men have emulated, admired and wanted to be all of their lives and change the character to a female (which will undoubtedly change many of the character's traits as well as one large aspect of their identity) would not only be horribly gimmicky, but would be a giant turn off to those of us men who identify and admire the character so much.
There are few enough good, solid male role models these days. Most of the men on T.V. are wimps, cowards, evil or just plain incompetent (early Mickey being a great example of this). Why take away one of the very few, long-standing good male role models that we have left in what would only be perceived by many as a cop-out, a gimmick or an all-out surrender to "equality".
Like I said before, Doctor Who is filled with very, very strong female characters to look up to from River Song, Amy, the current super-amazing side kick du jour and "whatever random middle-aged woman they find who can drive a mech without ever having seen one before, save an alien race of beings inside her body, fly an alien space ship that she has never seen before and save her entire family including her husband as he flies over the Atlantic" they have in the show this week. (Seriously, from Queens to French King's concubines, the show has scoured history and modern day to find any woman that they can present as strong and hyper-competent.) Amazing women are already over-represented on the show; there is no need to take the only strong male character from us.
I don't usually read these "Let's have a female Doctor" threads because they are tedious in the extreme - surely anyone who has an opinion has posted it on the previous 507 similar threads we've had in the last week or two?
When you say "cry and sulk" you mean like the OP?
I could turn your statement around and say that anyone who would continue to watch if there was a female Doctor is not a "true fan".
You would like to see our favourite show ruined just so you could have the pleasure of watching other people being upset by it? Really?
I've seen some mean comments on here in my time, but yours takes the biscuit.
Why would it be ruined what difference would it really make at end of the day as long as the actress was good and the writing it could and would work.
As much as I say I wouldn't watch again if Amy returned I know I would I love the show and no matter what they did I'd still tune in every week as most other fans would casual fans wouldn't care and die hard fans couldn't bring themselves to stop watching.
I see posts saying they will stop watching certain shows if they did this every week on other sites I go on and when they do the same fans are still there next week watching.
Your argument contradicts your premise. The Doctor's sidekicks are female because he is male. If the Doctor were female, she would have kick-ass male companions. Yin-yang, and all that.
I don't really care whether people stop watching or not. That's up to them, and if the show loses some, it gains some as well.
For me, the Doctor is male. A similar show with a female lead is not Doctor Who, it's something else.
Anyone who might want to watch that is welcome to it. I don't. I won't sulk and cry, or come on here week after week to say how bad it is, but that I must keep watching because I'm a "true fan" - an attitude I find incomprehensible and, actually, risible. I just won't watch.
I'm not going to debate the issue, however - see my post above about how boring I find the whole subject.
Your first sentence is insulting and patronizing. The fact that you so quickly resorted to sarcasm is a wonderful admission of defeat on the merits of the argument.
Also, your final sentence is an assumption. Just because The Doctor was changed to a female character does not mean that the sidekick dynamic would necessarily change whatsoever.
Finally, why in the world would they risk a show with such a long history on such a gimmick? Wasn't there a convention where Moffat asked who would stop watching the show if The Doctor was female and 90% + of the audience raised their hands? Stop trying to rewrite a classic and leave well enough alone.
Otherwise, this is what happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJlgpozN31s
Because she's like the doctor, but without the encumbrance of testicles
There are male and female Timelords that have never changed gender in the past and they grew up male on Gallifrey.
I wouldn't abandon the show without giving it a go but I can't help think that if they feel the need to change the gender of The Doctor it would be because the show was in decline and they were trying to grab ratings and headlines rather than the because it was the correct thing to do for the story.
And there have been some that have
Really? That's not sarcasm by the way, there could of been, there's people with much more knowledge than me on the subject lol.
I've never heard of it though, do you have some examples from the TV Show?
Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PDyuGoKypk
The Docotr says himself one Timelord was sometimes male sometimes female if that one could do it maybe others could to.
And for me when 10 regenerated into 11 he said
"I'm a girl" he didn't say it like it was something impossible
Anyway he has aloes picked up some of Rivers regenerations so what if that is literal and he gets the bodies she was supposed to have
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corsair
See with the Doctor it's been a secret he's been hiding from his entire life - apart from one incarnation who came out of the closet and became known as the Nurse
A lot think that way. The Doctor is a super-hero for young people, he's an action-figure, a comic-book type of hero, a role model. The BBC would not risk that for the sake of politcal correctness.
It's also not very 'feminist' to have a female Doctor. It would be more like a spin off. Not the real thing.
Although the tables would be turned and we could potentially have some hot male sidekicks for a female Dr, my preference is still for the Dr to be male.
Yes, one lie and one quick panicky quip during a regeneration; both during Moffat's time. Basically, this is Moffat trying to change the nature of Time Lords to fit his own vision of them. For example he wrote this 1999(?) Doctor Who Comedy Relief special where The Doctor does (after several male regenerations) change into a woman and then sticks with that body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Do-wDPoC6GM
Moffat has been, over the course of decades now, trying to worm this into the Doctor Who mythology. Why? Who knows? Maybe he has something against The Doctor being male. I have no idea. However, this whole Doctor-changing-sexes thing started with him and has wormed its way into the show through him.
Just remember, The Doctor lies. And, most importantly, Moffat lies (a lot; Doctor Who will take over the T.V., yeah right). None of this was ever part of the Doctor Who before.
I can't stand Moffat's screwing around with the show and I would abandon it if The Doctor became a female. Moffat has been screwing around with things for years (two humans can have sex in The Tardis and the baby is born a Time Lord? What? Seriously?), but that would be one bridge too far.
Perhaps it is from men who feel this need themselves but dare not admit it, so instead project their feelings onto a handy programme.
The Doctor is a male character, he has male attributes and attitudes (at times even being quite chauvinistic). After 50 years you'd think people would be used to idea that he is male.
This is not a chauvinistic attitude on my part. After all I would be unhappy if they re-booted Wonder Woman and made her male. 'She' is female, with (very) female attributes and attitudes. I wouldn't like to see the re-boot having 'David Prince' spin around and become Wonder Woman. (though saying that - I have known certain people who would probably be attracted to that kind of programme
It doesn't sound silly to me - I know exactly what you mean.
It does make me wonder how people can't see that the whole essence of the Doctor is male, with everything that goes with it, for good and ill.
Would they really react to a female Doctor in the same way? I wouldn't - I'd feel I'd lost him, however good the female Doctor and her stories may be.
My point was not that the sidekick dynamic would have to change, but that your fears that there would be no male role model in the series are unfounded, as a female Doctor could quite easily have a male sidekick, if they felt the male-female dynamic was important.
Which brings us to a further question about why the lack of male role models would be seen as a problem at all.
I don't think for a second that they'll make the Doctor female. But because much of society isn't ready for the transition, not because the Doctor is inherently masculine in character.