OK ...As I'm fairly new to DS,after some thought,I've decided to not censor this myself because this is how John Cleese wrote and performed this scene with Ballard Berkeley.
I'm not new to Fawlty Towers however and was enjoying this thread thinking ... 'Oh I remember it was pretty bad at the time but (guiltily) ... it totally cracked me up,but what did The Major say exactly? ... well here it is to the best of my knowledge ;-
The Major: Strange creatures, women. I knew one once... striking-looking girl... tall, you know... father was a banker.
Basil: Really?
The Major: Don't remember the name of the bank.
Basil: Never mind.
The Major: I must have been rather keen on her because I took her to see... India!
Basil: India?
The Major: At the Oval... fine match, marvellous finish... now, Surrey had to get thirty-three in about half an hour... she went off to powder her... powder her hands or something... women... er... never came back.
Basil: What a shame.
The Major: And the strange thing was... throughout the morning she kept referring to the Indians as ****. "No no no," I said, "the **** are the West Indians. These people are wogs." "No, no," she said. "All cricketers are ****."
Basil: They do get awfully confused, don't they? They're not thinkers. I see it with Sybil everyday.
The Major: I do wish I could remember her name. She's still got my wallet.
Basil: As I was saying, no capacity for logical thought.
The Major: Who?
Basil: Women.
The Major: Oh yes, yes... I thought you meant Indians.
There's too much political correctness/sensitivity these days.
Is there an equivalent of Godwin's Law that covers the appearance of this stupid term in a thread?
I've thought for a long term that part of the genius of Fawlty Towers is that Basil is seen as this really horrible person but much of the time he is not. He is just too near the edge of sanity.
The real nasty person is Sybil. Quite as much a snob as Basil but self important and lazy (ever see her doing any work?). There are times you can feel sorry for Basil, I never can for Sybil.
Whenever anyone asks the question "Do you know what day it is?" I subconciously think "Agincoiurt?"
I find that quote amusing and not at all offensive, but I'm sure others would be offended. We live in a world where it is everyone's right to never be offended, so I'm guessing someone will red flag it at some point.
Unfortunately political correctness has hobbled comedy for the last 20 years, which explains why it's fallen like a stone in quantity and quality. Also I really can't stand these oh so PC comedians who appear on Live at the Apollo and just aren't funny.
"When I order a room with a sea view, I expect to see the sea."
"You CAN see the sea; it's over there between he land and the sky."
"I'd need a telescope to see that."
"Then may I suggest you go to a hotel closer to the sea! Or preferably in it!"
Or...
"It would help if you turn it on."
"What?!"
"TURN... IT.... ON!!!!!"
Mrs Richards: "What is going on here? I ask him for my room,and he tells me the manager's a Mr Watt aged forty"
Manuel: "No,no,no,no,no.....FAWLLLTY"!
Mrs Richards: "Faulty? What's wrong wth him"?
And on why she wants a reduction on her bill:
Mrs Richards: "Because the room is cold,the bath is too small,the view is invisible,and the radio doesn't work".
Basil: "No,the radio works. You don't".
Mrs Richards: "What"?
Basil: "I'll see if I can fix it you scraggy old bat"!
The Major: And the strange thing was... throughout the morning she kept referring to the Indians as ****. "No no no," I said, "the **** are the West Indians. These people are wogs." "No, no," she said. "All cricketers are ****.".
This was very funny at the time and now but let's not kid ourselves that it was just another scene in a comedy programme. I remember watching it when it first went out and recall the reaction to it was so much greater than other sketches, because even in the mid-70s it was completely unexpected to hear that sort of language on the BBC. I've always seen it as Cleese flagging up his parents' generation having a much more ingrained casual throwaway racism than his had.
This was very funny at the time and now but let's not kid ourselves that it was just another scene in a comedy programme. I remember watching it when it first went out and recall the reaction to it was so much greater than other sketches, because even in the mid-70s it was completely unexpected to hear that sort of language on the BBC. I've always seen it as Cleese flagging up his parents' generation having a much more ingrained casual throwaway racism than his had.
There is nothing in that sketch that is in any way negative about people of different races. Yes, the major is using slang terms for people from other countries, but even he doesn't say or do anything that gives the impression that he thinks non-white people are inferior to white people.
As you say, an older generation that doesn't understand the sensitivities of "modern" times, but I wouldn't say the major is acting in a racist way.
Many people are offended by the n-word, the p-word and many other words, without thinking whether the speaker intends an insult or is just not aware of the potential affect of his words.
I'm sure the sketch was to highlight ignorance of the major, not to say he was racist.
"Unfortunately political correctness has hobbled comedy for the last 20 years, which explains why it's fallen like a stone in quantity and quality. Also I really can't stand these oh so PC comedians who appear on Live at the Apollo and just aren't funny."
Harry Enfield in his prime was actually a very "politically correct" comedian, and his success coincided with all that wave of alternative comedy going mainstream. In his grumpy and more conservative older age, he's less funny.
Mrs Richards: "What is going on here? I ask him for my room,and he tells me the manager's a Mr Watt aged forty"
Manuel: "No,no,no,no,no.....FAWLLLTY"!
Mrs Richards: "Faulty? What's wrong wth him"?
And on why she wants a reduction on her bill:
Mrs Richards: "Because the room is cold,the bath is too small,the view is invisible,and the radio doesn't work".
Basil: "No,the radio works. You don't".
Mrs Richards: "What"?
Basil: "I'll see if I can fix it you scraggy old bat"!
Unfortunately political correctness has hobbled comedy for the last 20 years, which explains why it's fallen like a stone in quantity and quality. Also I really can't stand these oh so PC comedians who appear on Live at the Apollo and just aren't funny.
Rubbish. Some of the comedy nowadays is far less PC than in the "good old days". Even in the 70s, no mainstream comedian would have done Ting Ting the mail order bride from Little Britain. And Frankie Boyle is many things, but PC isn't one of them.
There is nothing in that sketch that is in any way negative about people of different races. Yes, the major is using slang terms for people from other countries, but even he doesn't say or do anything that gives the impression that he thinks non-white people are inferior to white people.
As you say, an older generation that doesn't understand the sensitivities of "modern" times, but I wouldn't say the major is acting in a racist way.
Many people are offended by the n-word, the p-word and many other words, without thinking whether the speaker intends an insult or is just not aware of the potential affect of his words.
I'm sure the sketch was to highlight ignorance of the major, not to say he was racist.
That's my take on it; the Major, not Indians, was the butt of the joke.
Of course, some people miss the point. In The Germans, Basil was unequivocally the butt of the joke; they actually gave him a head injury to make his terrible behaviour to the Germans a bit more explicable. Even so, John Cleese got people coming up in the street saying "Good old Basil, sticking it to the krauts"
Unfortunately political correctness has hobbled comedy for the last 20 years, which explains why it's fallen like a stone in quantity and quality. Also I really can't stand these oh so PC comedians who appear on Live at the Apollo and just aren't funny.
You've clearly never heard of Frankie Boyle. Political correctness hasn't hobbled him in the slightest. As for Live at the Apollo I don't recall seeing any "oh so PC" comedians on that. They are mostly fairly "in your face" stand-ups. Being offensively racist is never going to get you a laugh these days, but that doesn't mean you can't mention race in the context of a joke, or make a joke at the expense of an ethnic minority person.
I find it really annoying when people keep going on about PC and how you couldn't make stuff like this nowadays when quite clearly you can, if you want to. Most comedy involves offending someone. However in the quote above about the Major and cricket it's very clear he's being ridiculed as a well meaning but racist buffoon. The joke is not a racist one aimed at West Indians or Indians.
There is nothing in that sketch that is in any way negative about people of different races. Yes, the major is using slang terms for people from other countries, but even he doesn't say or do anything that gives the impression that he thinks non-white people are inferior to white people.
As you say, an older generation that doesn't understand the sensitivities of "modern" times, but I wouldn't say the major is acting in a racist way.
Many people are offended by the n-word, the p-word and many other words, without thinking whether the speaker intends an insult or is just not aware of the potential affect of his words.
I'm sure the sketch was to highlight ignorance of the major, not to say he was racist.
But even he was that sort of person I don't think it's a good idea to censor language because that would be what the character of the major was written to be like.
Sometimes in drama, which I'd include comedy drama, racist characters will exist. They'd have to if drama is supposed to reflect different types of people.
When you think about it its quite incredible that its seen to be necessary to censor language uttered by a fictional character that may be racist, homophobic, or sexist. However all channels don't bat an eyelid when they show drama in films which depict the nihilistic and gratuitous slaughter and destruction of the human body in gloriously violent detail.
You can show a murderer in drama shown on TV who kills people in the most gory ways imaginable. But you can't see a character utter language which is racist, or might be seen to be possibly racist.
You've clearly never heard of a show called Little Britain
There's something more complex going on though. Any show which is seen as contemporary and 'in' with the media circle is allowed to go close to the edge (see Frankie Boyle, Little Braitain etc) but if any similar humour is used in a show that is less fashionble or from the 1970s or 1980s instiently its called racist/sexist etc
But even he was that sort of person I don't think it's a good idea to censor language because that would be what the character of the major was written to be like.
Sometimes in drama, which I'd include comedy drama, racist characters will exist. They'd have to if drama is supposed to reflect different types of people.
When you think about it its quite incredible that its seen to be necessary to censor language uttered by a fictional character that may be racist, homophobic, or sexist. However all channels don't bat an eyelid when they show drama in films which depict the nihilistic and gratuitous slaughter and destruction of the human body in gloriously violent detail.
You can show a murderer in drama shown on TV who kills people in the most gory ways imaginable. But you can't see a character utter language which is racist, or might be seen to be possibly racist.
We are way off topic, but I always think the different standards for sex and violence are strange. Torture, gory murders and mindless violence is fine, but don't let a guy take his pants off!
There's something more complex going on though. Any show which is seen as contemporary and 'in' with the media circle is allowed to go close to the edge (see Frankie Boyle, Little Braitain etc) but if any similar humour is used in a show that is less fashionble or from the 1970s or 1980s instiently its called racist/sexist etc
I don't remember Little Britain ever being 'in with the media circle'. It was always rather looked down on by critics and they really savaged it towards the end. And I don't understand the point about 'contemporary' shows. Surely any comedy made now by definition is contemporary compared to something made in the 70s and 80s. And there is a difference between then and now: a 'poofter' joke written in an episode of Porridge, for example, was not meant 'ironically' by its writer and the laughs it generated form the audience certainly weren't. It would be correct to describe both as homophobic. But in a show like Little Britain, a line delivered by an openly gay actor in a show aimed at a young overwhelmingly gay-friendly audience is in a very different context. That's how what may appear to be similar humour can be seen as offensive in a decades old comedy and not in a contemporary one.
"Unfortunately political correctness has hobbled comedy for the last 20 years, which explains why it's fallen like a stone in quantity and quality. Also I really can't stand these oh so PC comedians who appear on Live at the Apollo and just aren't funny."
Harry Enfield in his prime was actually a very "politically correct" comedian, and his success coincided with all that wave of alternative comedy going mainstream. In his grumpy and more conservative older age, he's less funny.
Not surprised the PC brigade didn't have a go at him for stereotyping Greeks and Germans. Actually Enfield was quite funny and reminded me of a new Dick Emery.
I don't remember Little Britain ever being 'in with the media circle'. It was always rather looked down on by critics and they really savaged it towards the end. And I don't understand the point about 'contemporary' shows. Surely any comedy made now by definition is contemporary compared to something made in the 70s and 80s. And there is a difference between then and now: a 'poofter' joke written in an episode of Porridge, for example, was not meant 'ironically' by its writer and the laughs it generated form the audience certainly weren't. It would be correct to describe both as homophobic. But in a show like Little Britain, a line delivered by an openly gay actor in a show aimed at a young overwhelmingly gay-friendly audience is in a very different context. That's how what may appear to be similar humour can be seen as offensive in a decades old comedy and not in a contemporary one.
Bu the very point of the '****' joke in Fawlty Towers was precisely to be ironic, to trick the audience into thinking that the Major is about to criticise the woman for using a racist word when he then goes on to use a different word himself.
Unfortunately political correctness has hobbled comedy for the last 20 years, which explains why it's fallen like a stone in quantity and quality. Also I really can't stand these oh so PC comedians who appear on Live at the Apollo and just aren't funny.
I have been watching repeats of Strike it Rich with Michael Barrymore (never watched it the first time round) and it is so funny and all the contestants didn't have a problem.
Comments
Yeah, the joke works better with India and The Oval.
And BBC2 skipped this episode completely.
I'm not new to Fawlty Towers however and was enjoying this thread thinking ... 'Oh I remember it was pretty bad at the time but (guiltily) ... it totally cracked me up,but what did The Major say exactly? ... well here it is to the best of my knowledge ;-
The Major: Strange creatures, women. I knew one once... striking-looking girl... tall, you know... father was a banker.
Basil: Really?
The Major: Don't remember the name of the bank.
Basil: Never mind.
The Major: I must have been rather keen on her because I took her to see... India!
Basil: India?
The Major: At the Oval... fine match, marvellous finish... now, Surrey had to get thirty-three in about half an hour... she went off to powder her... powder her hands or something... women... er... never came back.
Basil: What a shame.
The Major: And the strange thing was... throughout the morning she kept referring to the Indians as ****. "No no no," I said, "the **** are the West Indians. These people are wogs." "No, no," she said. "All cricketers are ****."
Basil: They do get awfully confused, don't they? They're not thinkers. I see it with Sybil everyday.
The Major: I do wish I could remember her name. She's still got my wallet.
Basil: As I was saying, no capacity for logical thought.
The Major: Who?
Basil: Women.
The Major: Oh yes, yes... I thought you meant Indians.
Is there an equivalent of Godwin's Law that covers the appearance of this stupid term in a thread?
I've thought for a long term that part of the genius of Fawlty Towers is that Basil is seen as this really horrible person but much of the time he is not. He is just too near the edge of sanity.
The real nasty person is Sybil. Quite as much a snob as Basil but self important and lazy (ever see her doing any work?). There are times you can feel sorry for Basil, I never can for Sybil.
Whenever anyone asks the question "Do you know what day it is?" I subconciously think "Agincoiurt?"
Mrs Richards: "What is going on here? I ask him for my room,and he tells me the manager's a Mr Watt aged forty"
Manuel: "No,no,no,no,no.....FAWLLLTY"!
Mrs Richards: "Faulty? What's wrong wth him"?
And on why she wants a reduction on her bill:
Mrs Richards: "Because the room is cold,the bath is too small,the view is invisible,and the radio doesn't work".
Basil: "No,the radio works. You don't".
Mrs Richards: "What"?
Basil: "I'll see if I can fix it you scraggy old bat"!
There is nothing in that sketch that is in any way negative about people of different races. Yes, the major is using slang terms for people from other countries, but even he doesn't say or do anything that gives the impression that he thinks non-white people are inferior to white people.
As you say, an older generation that doesn't understand the sensitivities of "modern" times, but I wouldn't say the major is acting in a racist way.
Many people are offended by the n-word, the p-word and many other words, without thinking whether the speaker intends an insult or is just not aware of the potential affect of his words.
I'm sure the sketch was to highlight ignorance of the major, not to say he was racist.
Harry Enfield in his prime was actually a very "politically correct" comedian, and his success coincided with all that wave of alternative comedy going mainstream. In his grumpy and more conservative older age, he's less funny.
I thought Basil called her a "Scabby old bat" ?
Rubbish. Some of the comedy nowadays is far less PC than in the "good old days". Even in the 70s, no mainstream comedian would have done Ting Ting the mail order bride from Little Britain. And Frankie Boyle is many things, but PC isn't one of them.
That's my take on it; the Major, not Indians, was the butt of the joke.
Of course, some people miss the point. In The Germans, Basil was unequivocally the butt of the joke; they actually gave him a head injury to make his terrible behaviour to the Germans a bit more explicable. Even so, John Cleese got people coming up in the street saying "Good old Basil, sticking it to the krauts"
I find it really annoying when people keep going on about PC and how you couldn't make stuff like this nowadays when quite clearly you can, if you want to. Most comedy involves offending someone. However in the quote above about the Major and cricket it's very clear he's being ridiculed as a well meaning but racist buffoon. The joke is not a racist one aimed at West Indians or Indians.
But even he was that sort of person I don't think it's a good idea to censor language because that would be what the character of the major was written to be like.
Sometimes in drama, which I'd include comedy drama, racist characters will exist. They'd have to if drama is supposed to reflect different types of people.
When you think about it its quite incredible that its seen to be necessary to censor language uttered by a fictional character that may be racist, homophobic, or sexist. However all channels don't bat an eyelid when they show drama in films which depict the nihilistic and gratuitous slaughter and destruction of the human body in gloriously violent detail.
You can show a murderer in drama shown on TV who kills people in the most gory ways imaginable. But you can't see a character utter language which is racist, or might be seen to be possibly racist.
There's something more complex going on though. Any show which is seen as contemporary and 'in' with the media circle is allowed to go close to the edge (see Frankie Boyle, Little Braitain etc) but if any similar humour is used in a show that is less fashionble or from the 1970s or 1980s instiently its called racist/sexist etc
We are way off topic, but I always think the different standards for sex and violence are strange. Torture, gory murders and mindless violence is fine, but don't let a guy take his pants off!
This is a major issue with TV now. Violence is now somehow considered acceptable family viewing, while sex is pushed past 10, 11 pm.
I don't remember Little Britain ever being 'in with the media circle'. It was always rather looked down on by critics and they really savaged it towards the end. And I don't understand the point about 'contemporary' shows. Surely any comedy made now by definition is contemporary compared to something made in the 70s and 80s. And there is a difference between then and now: a 'poofter' joke written in an episode of Porridge, for example, was not meant 'ironically' by its writer and the laughs it generated form the audience certainly weren't. It would be correct to describe both as homophobic. But in a show like Little Britain, a line delivered by an openly gay actor in a show aimed at a young overwhelmingly gay-friendly audience is in a very different context. That's how what may appear to be similar humour can be seen as offensive in a decades old comedy and not in a contemporary one.
I always heard it as scraggy old bat but after looking it up I find you are right and I stand corrected.
Not surprised the PC brigade didn't have a go at him for stereotyping Greeks and Germans. Actually Enfield was quite funny and reminded me of a new Dick Emery.
Bu the very point of the '****' joke in Fawlty Towers was precisely to be ironic, to trick the audience into thinking that the Major is about to criticise the woman for using a racist word when he then goes on to use a different word himself.
'How often can you and your wife manage it?'
I have been watching repeats of Strike it Rich with Michael Barrymore (never watched it the first time round) and it is so funny and all the contestants didn't have a problem.
The 'do-gooders' have ruined comedy :mad::mad: