Yes, I absolutely recommend them, I didn't find them any better or worse than the previous three books. They continue on with the journeys of the various characters and there's some interesting plot developments which start to become more obvious as the novels continue.
I do also think I need to clarify something regarding "story arcs". EVERY main character's story continues in either one book or the other. There are no story arcs which suddenly stop and are not returned to or developed further. The claim made previously that peoples' characters aren't written about is simply incorrect.
The argument seems to be about whether or not the two books could have been condensed (yes obviously, any book can be edited to make it tighter, the same with the first three) and that a couple of the story arcs become a bit "padded".
I had read exactly what you mentioned (about main character's arcs suddenly stopping) and thought it was a bit odd. If this isn't actually the case then I'll definitely buy the books.
Some of the descriptive texts the author uses to paint a picture of the world of westeros I find fascinating. There's so much more detail in the books than on screen to be honest. So I don't see it as "extra padding" but more meat to add to the bones of this amazing world. That part never put me iff, just people saying that characters don't get written about any more.
I had read exactly what you mentioned (about main character's arcs suddenly stopping) and thought it was a bit odd. If this isn't actually the case then I'll definitely buy the books.
Some of the descriptive texts the author uses to paint a picture of the world of westeros I find fascinating. There's so much more detail in the books than on screen to be honest. So I don't see it as "extra padding" but more meat to add to the bones of this amazing world. That part never put me iff, just people saying that characters don't get written about any more.
The narrative of the main characters is split over the two books so some peoples' story continues in AFfC, others don't take up again until ADwW and some have smaller bits in both books. No main character doesn't have their journey followed at all.
The narrative of the main characters is split over the two books so some peoples' story continues in AFfC, others don't take up again until ADwW and some have smaller bits in both books. No main character doesn't have their journey followed at all.
That's interesting to know, with roughly 4 or 5 chapters of ASOS left.
That being said would you say (without spoilers obviously) seasons 5 & 6 maybe more will be more of a mix of AFFC & ADWD rather than the traditional book per season?
The argument seems to be about whether or not the two books could have been condensed (yes obviously, any book can be edited to make it tighter, the same with the first three) and that a couple of the story arcs become a bit "padded".
You can't deny that quite a lot of AFFC and ADWD could be cut from the books without consequence, which is why I'm looking forward to how the series will streamline the two books into one or two seasons (two seasons might be stretching it, maybe one and a half?) because if you get rid of the fluff, the last two books are great and have some brilliant moments in them. I think it's pretty much certain the last two books will be combined together in the series because they both happen parallel to each other.
That's interesting to know, with roughly 4 or 5 chapters of ASOS left.
That being said would you say (without spoilers obviously) seasons 5 & 6 maybe more will be more of a mix of AFFC & ADWD rather than the traditional book per season?
That's not strictly true as season 3 hasn't covered book 3 entirely at all. Season 4 will have to cover essential book 3 events, otherwise the story won't make any sense.
That's interesting to know, with roughly 4 or 5 chapters of ASOS left.
That being said would you say (without spoilers obviously) seasons 5 & 6 maybe more will be more of a mix of AFFC & ADWD rather than the traditional book per season?
Yes they've already said they will be taking characters journeys in time chronology order not book order, that's why they've already had some elements from the later books (Theon's story for example) in Series Three.
You can't deny that quite a lot of AFFC and ADWD could be cut from the books without consequence, which is why I'm looking forward to how the series will streamline the two books into one or two seasons (two seasons might be stretching it, maybe one and a half?) because if you get rid of the fluff, the last two books are great and have some brilliant moments in them. I think it's pretty much certain the last two books will be combined together in the series because they both happen parallel to each other.
And I never have denied it. The same charge can be levelled at books 1 - 3 though, all of them contain what could be charged as "unnecessary fluff or padding".
I've just watched all three series in about two weeks, so apologies for only raising these questions now, but can anyone explain/ suggest reasons for the following, which are confusing me (although it's entirely possible I mis-understood and/ or missed the relevant explanations). If the answers relate to events that haven't yet been shown, please spoiler.
- At the end of series two, the Whitewalkers were descending on (presumably) the Wall. Shouldn't they have reached it by now and pretty much laid waste to Westeros? The Ww were riding past Tarly after he got seperated, yet he seemingly managed to get back to the Wall before them, after first rescuing Gilly and the baby and making several stops along the way.
- In S2E9, The Hound, after deciding to go AWOL, offered to take Sansa home (or at least away from King's Landing). Sansa appears to take him up on this, but obviously she doesn't and it's never referred to again. Why didn't she leave when she had the opportunity?
- Speaking of The Hound, why's he still bothering with Arya? Is he assuming that he'll still be able to find someone who'll pay him for her safe return? Arya's never made any sort of offer to reward him.
- At the end of series two, the Whitewalkers were descending on (presumably) the Wall. Shouldn't they have reached it by now and pretty much laid waste to Westeros? The Ww were riding past Tarly after he got seperated, yet he seemingly managed to get back to the Wall before them, after first rescuing Gilly and the baby and making several stops along the way.
- In S2E9, The Hound, after deciding to go AWOL, offered to take Sansa home (or at least away from King's Landing). Sansa appears to take him up on this, but obviously she doesn't and it's never referred to again. Why didn't she leave when she had the opportunity?
- Speaking of The Hound, why's he still bothering with Arya? Is he assuming that he'll still be able to find someone who'll pay him for her safe return? Arya's never made any sort of offer to reward him.
- For the first question, the White Walkers weren't descending onto the wall. If you watch the scene again, the "wall" is actually a cliff where the Fist of the First Men (where the Night's Watch are currently camped) is and the WW are therefore still several hundreds of miles away from the wall at that point. I can see why you're confused though, especially considering we do not see the following battle (well, slaughter) between the Nights Watch and the White Walkers at the Fist in the show.
- Not too entirely sure on the second question, but maybe she thought the Lannisters were going to be defeated in the battle, and was therefore waiting to be rescued by Stannis and his forces instead of trusting a viscous, hateful killer ? I'm not quite sure though, I need to watch that scene again.
- Yeah, I think he's looking for someone who'll pay for Arya's return but he hasn't got many choices at the moment- his options are Lysa (Catelyn's sister from season one) and the Blackfish if he turns up somewhere.
- For the first question, the White Walkers weren't descending onto the wall. If you watch the scene again, the "wall" is actually a cliff where the Fist of the First Men (where the Night's Watch are currently camped) is and the WW are therefore still several hundreds of miles away from the wall at that point. I can see why you're confused though, especially considering we do not see the following battle (well, slaughter) between the Nights Watch and the White Walkers at the Fist in the show.
Ah, I didn't get that. Still, I can't imagine that 'battle' would have lasted very long, so even though Tarly had a 'head start' on the Ww on reaching the Wall, surely they'd have easily made that up? Unless, perhaps, they made several other stops before marching on the Wall?
The Fist was a fortified hill where the Night's Watch fought the White Walkers. They knew about fire killing them from Jon's fight in season 1 so they were able to put up some resistance.
They then retreated to Craster's farm where there was another skirmish. Here Mormont the Old Bear was killed by his own men before they scattered. Sam took Gilly from here and headed to the Wall.
Beyond the Wall seems to be a Walking Dead style zombie apocolypse with White Walkers roaming around with no real organisation or intent. They haven't marched in force against the Wall yet.
The Fist was a fortified hill where the Night's Watch fought the White Walkers. They knew about fire killing them from Jon's fight in season 1 so they were able to put up some resistance.
They then retreated to Craster's farm where there was another skirmish. Here Mormont the Old Bear was killed by his own men before they scattered. Sam took Gilly from here and headed to the Wall.
Beyond the Wall seems to be a Walking Dead style zombie apocolypse with White Walkers roaming around with no real organisation or intent. They haven't marched in force against the Wall yet.
As good an explanation as any. This is from the books, I take it? Apart from the BIB, I don't recall any of that being implied, let alone shown.
The White Walkers haven't marched on the wall yet, because the wall has magic qualities that prevent them from getting past it. So I assume they've been building up their army (by attacking the wildlings and night's watch) in the meanwhile until they can get past the wall...somehow.
Ah, I didn't get that. Still, I can't imagine that 'battle' would have lasted very long, so even though Tarly had a 'head start' on the Ww on reaching the Wall, surely they'd have easily made that up? Unless, perhaps, they made several other stops before marching on the Wall?
They're not marching on The Wall. There's not been anything said in cannon (ie on the TV show) that the Walkers are heading for The Wall.
What they were doing, as was mentioned, was heading for The Fist of the First Men for a confrontation with the Night's Watch ranging patrol. Most of the army shown were wights - ie resurrected corpses, they're not Walkers, the Walkers are the tall thin skeleton-alikes with the piercing blue eyes and there are very few of them.
As good an explanation as any. This is from the books, I take it? Apart from the BIB, I don't recall any of that being implied, let alone shown.
All of the above was shown on the TV show, the retreat to Craster's, Mormont being killed by his men, Sam and Gilly escaping, but it's all in Season Three which I am assuming you haven't seen yet.
They're not marching on The Wall. There's not been anything said in cannon (ie on the TV show) that the Walkers are heading for The Wall.
What they were doing, as was mentioned, was heading for The Fist of the First Men for a confrontation with the Night's Watch ranging patrol. Most of the army shown were wights - ie resurrected corpses, they're not Walkers, the Walkers are the tall thin skeleton-alikes with the piercing blue eyes and there are very few of them.
Ok, my mis-understanding. In which ep. was the differences explained? I can't recall the word 'wight' even being uttered by anyone. AFAICR, they were always referred to as Whitewalkers. I'll have to re-watch.
All of the above was shown on the TV show, the retreat to Craster's, Mormont being killed by his men, Sam and Gilly escaping, but it's all in Season Three which I am assuming you haven't seen yet.
I've seen series 3, but in which ep(s) were battles between Ww/ wights and Night's Watch shown, forcing the retreat to Craster's? We saw a 'skirmish', I suppose, during which Tarly's two mates took off and we saw Tarly 'kill' a Ww (or a wight), but I certainly don't recall anything else. If it was implied, or even stated outright, by another character that Night's Watch have battled Walkers, I must have missed it, but I'm damn sure it wasn't shown.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, the whole lysa, sansa/alyane, littlefinger/vale storyline happens in the second part of the book so season 4. Wouldn't it better to push that to Season 5. In season 4, Just include the part where its shown how she escapes with it ending with the ship that sansa/LF going off.
Ok, my mis-understanding. In which ep. was the differences explained? I can't recall the word 'wight' even being uttered by anyone. AFAICR, they were always referred to as Whitewalkers. I'll have to re-watch.
I've seen series 3, but in which ep(s) were battles between Ww/ wights and Night's Watch shown, forcing the retreat to Craster's? We saw a 'skirmish', I suppose, during which Tarly's two mates took off and we saw Tarly 'kill' a Ww (or a wight), but I certainly don't recall anything else. If it was implied, or even stated outright, by another character that Night's Watch have battled Walkers, I must have missed it, but I'm damn sure it wasn't shown.
The wights versus White Walkers has been discussed in various episodes since S1. Specifically when the corpses of the rangers re-animated at Castle Black and were set on fire by Jon, Sam then tells Jon about what he's read about White Walkers and wights, in Nan's stories of the White Walkers in S1, when Ned dealt with the Night's Watch deserter, the opening scenes of said deserter and his two other Night's Watch rangers finding the deserted Wildling village and the little girl re-animating as a wight, Osha's conversation with Maester Luwin about them fleeing the White Walkers (some examples just off the top of my head).
There was no "battle" shown on screen between the Night's Watch and the White Walker led army but there have been various scenes relating to there being one. The retreat to Craster's Keep, the argument at Craster's Keep over what to do next and whether to keep retreating to the Wall, Sam's fight with one and, the big give away, when Jon, Ygritte, Mance and the rest of the Wildlings find the horses' head pattern on the Fist.
I would suggest a second watch-through, only this time leave some space between episodes. I don't find GoT very good for marathon viewing personally, it's so dense and there's so much in each episode that it needs to be digested properly, but one way or the other there's so much to be gleaned from a second viewing, things take on so much meaning when looked at in the context of later events.
Comments
I had read exactly what you mentioned (about main character's arcs suddenly stopping) and thought it was a bit odd. If this isn't actually the case then I'll definitely buy the books.
Some of the descriptive texts the author uses to paint a picture of the world of westeros I find fascinating. There's so much more detail in the books than on screen to be honest. So I don't see it as "extra padding" but more meat to add to the bones of this amazing world. That part never put me iff, just people saying that characters don't get written about any more.
The narrative of the main characters is split over the two books so some peoples' story continues in AFfC, others don't take up again until ADwW and some have smaller bits in both books. No main character doesn't have their journey followed at all.
That's interesting to know, with roughly 4 or 5 chapters of ASOS left.
That being said would you say (without spoilers obviously) seasons 5 & 6 maybe more will be more of a mix of AFFC & ADWD rather than the traditional book per season?
You can't deny that quite a lot of AFFC and ADWD could be cut from the books without consequence, which is why I'm looking forward to how the series will streamline the two books into one or two seasons (two seasons might be stretching it, maybe one and a half?) because if you get rid of the fluff, the last two books are great and have some brilliant moments in them. I think it's pretty much certain the last two books will be combined together in the series because they both happen parallel to each other.
That's not strictly true as season 3 hasn't covered book 3 entirely at all. Season 4 will have to cover essential book 3 events, otherwise the story won't make any sense.
Yes they've already said they will be taking characters journeys in time chronology order not book order, that's why they've already had some elements from the later books (Theon's story for example) in Series Three.
And I never have denied it. The same charge can be levelled at books 1 - 3 though, all of them contain what could be charged as "unnecessary fluff or padding".
- At the end of series two, the Whitewalkers were descending on (presumably) the Wall. Shouldn't they have reached it by now and pretty much laid waste to Westeros? The Ww were riding past Tarly after he got seperated, yet he seemingly managed to get back to the Wall before them, after first rescuing Gilly and the baby and making several stops along the way.
- In S2E9, The Hound, after deciding to go AWOL, offered to take Sansa home (or at least away from King's Landing). Sansa appears to take him up on this, but obviously she doesn't and it's never referred to again. Why didn't she leave when she had the opportunity?
- Speaking of The Hound, why's he still bothering with Arya? Is he assuming that he'll still be able to find someone who'll pay him for her safe return? Arya's never made any sort of offer to reward him.
- For the first question, the White Walkers weren't descending onto the wall. If you watch the scene again, the "wall" is actually a cliff where the Fist of the First Men (where the Night's Watch are currently camped) is and the WW are therefore still several hundreds of miles away from the wall at that point. I can see why you're confused though, especially considering we do not see the following battle (well, slaughter) between the Nights Watch and the White Walkers at the Fist in the show.
- Not too entirely sure on the second question, but maybe she thought the Lannisters were going to be defeated in the battle, and was therefore waiting to be rescued by Stannis and his forces instead of trusting a viscous, hateful killer ? I'm not quite sure though, I need to watch that scene again.
- Yeah, I think he's looking for someone who'll pay for Arya's return but he hasn't got many choices at the moment- his options are Lysa (Catelyn's sister from season one) and the Blackfish if he turns up somewhere.
They then retreated to Craster's farm where there was another skirmish. Here Mormont the Old Bear was killed by his own men before they scattered. Sam took Gilly from here and headed to the Wall.
Beyond the Wall seems to be a Walking Dead style zombie apocolypse with White Walkers roaming around with no real organisation or intent. They haven't marched in force against the Wall yet.
They're not marching on The Wall. There's not been anything said in cannon (ie on the TV show) that the Walkers are heading for The Wall.
What they were doing, as was mentioned, was heading for The Fist of the First Men for a confrontation with the Night's Watch ranging patrol. Most of the army shown were wights - ie resurrected corpses, they're not Walkers, the Walkers are the tall thin skeleton-alikes with the piercing blue eyes and there are very few of them.
All of the above was shown on the TV show, the retreat to Craster's, Mormont being killed by his men, Sam and Gilly escaping, but it's all in Season Three which I am assuming you haven't seen yet.
I've seen series 3, but in which ep(s) were battles between Ww/ wights and Night's Watch shown, forcing the retreat to Craster's? We saw a 'skirmish', I suppose, during which Tarly's two mates took off and we saw Tarly 'kill' a Ww (or a wight), but I certainly don't recall anything else. If it was implied, or even stated outright, by another character that Night's Watch have battled Walkers, I must have missed it, but I'm damn sure it wasn't shown.
I do apologise for that, I keep thinking everyone is a book reader. Sadly, it won't allow me to edit my post.
The wights versus White Walkers has been discussed in various episodes since S1. Specifically when the corpses of the rangers re-animated at Castle Black and were set on fire by Jon, Sam then tells Jon about what he's read about White Walkers and wights, in Nan's stories of the White Walkers in S1, when Ned dealt with the Night's Watch deserter, the opening scenes of said deserter and his two other Night's Watch rangers finding the deserted Wildling village and the little girl re-animating as a wight, Osha's conversation with Maester Luwin about them fleeing the White Walkers (some examples just off the top of my head).
There was no "battle" shown on screen between the Night's Watch and the White Walker led army but there have been various scenes relating to there being one. The retreat to Craster's Keep, the argument at Craster's Keep over what to do next and whether to keep retreating to the Wall, Sam's fight with one and, the big give away, when Jon, Ygritte, Mance and the rest of the Wildlings find the horses' head pattern on the Fist.
http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/07/game-of-thrones-season-4-comic-con-2013.html
I would suggest a second watch-through, only this time leave some space between episodes. I don't find GoT very good for marathon viewing personally, it's so dense and there's so much in each episode that it needs to be digested properly, but one way or the other there's so much to be gleaned from a second viewing, things take on so much meaning when looked at in the context of later events.
The panel and questions weren't as entertaining as previous years, but I loved Khal Drogo's Comic-Bomb.
It's better when there's more questions from the audience, and they ask stuff that hasn't been asked before.
Comic-Con 2011 was the best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmQzGKIEV2I
"He may be the Shakespeare of the Seven Kingdoms, he may be the reason we are all here... but he is not your bitch. George R. R. Martin!"
My god, episode 9 of season 3. My jaw couldn't have gone any lower to the floor
I adore this show so much. I didn't leave my room for like 2 days while trying to catch up with Season 2 and 3.