I'm conservative by nature but agree that there are far too many people who do not pay their fair share & some of the loopholes should be closed.
Those on minimum wage should not pay any tax (I believe this a new Tory policy) & should be the tax allowance.
After that simple- 30% for everyone......no matter what the salary or source of your income (and I'm quite aware that the top 10% of earners pay 50% of total income tax, or something like that)
I think what peeves people is that the government doesn't appear to spend their hard earned dollars wisely or in a way they would wish.
That isn't strictly true - all self-employed people have the choice to minimise their tax liabilities and all of them do, whether they're on £10,000 a year or £10million.
Other than by lying, I'm not sure how this applies at the bottom end. I have self-employed income, and it seems a simple matter of income vs expenses.
I think the biggest celebrity tax dodger (in a grey hinterland between avoidance and outright fraud) must be Bernie Ecclestone, whose unpaid taxes ran into the billions. He did an amazingly sharky sounding deal with the R & C by which he paid about 5p and a conker and they agreed to let him off.
The likes of Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow didn't break any laws as far as I'm aware. Therefore I don't judge them harshly.
If people want to get angry about tax avoidance schemes, they shouldn't direct their anger at the people who use them. They should direct it at the system that permits them.
I doubt it matters what the sytem is, if you want to work the sytem you will find a way, or rather the professionals will find a way for you.
They all grease each other's back, and always will.
Its the current law & not the celebs who are the problem.. closing the loopholes would be the solution
No it won't, there has to be loopholes, if politicians can't leave some loopholes open so that their chums can make even more money and give nothing back,then they threaten to throw their toys out of the pram, like the power companies, on being told that their price cuts would be forced upon them and they responded by telling us that the lights would go out and we'd be sorry.
Like Google and Amazon can't be shamed into operating ethically over taxes, they can't be forced to pay up, so they won't, and if they finally made to them they will throw all their employees onto the dole.
And on the whole Govt. is fine with that, because they are all at the same trough gobbling up everything, and getting fat.
I doubt it matters what the sytem is, if you want to work the sytem you will find a way, or rather the professionals will find a way for you.
They all grease each other's back, and always will.
Sorry, that sounds like a bit of a cop out to me.
If the government really wanted to stop these loopholes, they would. They have the power to do so. But for whatever reason you care to believe, they choose not to.
If the government really wanted to stop these loopholes, they would. They have the power to do so. But for whatever reason you care to believe, they choose not to.
Maybe they realise that taking 50% of people's earnings, meaning that they work for 6 months every year for nothing, is a bit unfair
Maybe they realise that taking 50% of people's earnings, meaning that they work for 6 months every year for nothing, is a bit unfair
Maybe they do. I'm not against people minimising their tax liability. I'm self employed and do it myself. I still pay far more than the average person does though.
If the government really wanted to stop these loopholes, they would. They have the power to do so. But for whatever reason you care to believe, they choose not to.
I really love the notion that anyone earning a lot of money is "lucky".
Utter bollocks. The vast majority of people in that earnings bracket got there through hard work and talent. Not luck.
is there any evidence of this, seeing as we are talking about celebrities do you not think Vernon Kay is 'lucky' to be earning about fifty times more than a nurse?
I really love the notion that anyone earning a lot of money is "lucky".
Utter bollocks. The vast majority of people in that earnings bracket got there through hard work and talent. Not luck.
There are always exceptions to the rule but the only people I know who are in the 50% bracket have got there by sheer hard work, study and putting in the hours. Not everybody wants to do this , I think you make to many sacrifices in your personal life but to then be told pay up half your salary and think yourself lucky is a bit ignorant.
is there any evidence of this, seeing as we are talking about celebrities do you not think Vernon Kay is 'lucky' to be earning about fifty times more than a nurse?
That's a subject for a different thread and it's all about supply and demand. We could argue until the cows come home about which celebs we think have talent or not. Fact is, the number of people who are talented enough to fill a stadium every night with crowds wanting to watch them perform music (as in the case of Gary Barlow) is much, much lower than the number who are talented enough to train as a nurse. That's just life, get over it.
Since you specifically ask about Vernon Kay, I think he's alright, I'm not a particular fan of his. But he wouldn't be paid what he's paid if the people who decide his wages didn't think they were getting a decent return for it. Same as any TV presenter.
If that is true or if it is pure speculation on your part, it is irrelevant.
People like Jimmy Carr,and the other tax dodging "celebrities" are morally bankrupt individuals who should be ashamed of themselves.
Someone's a little bit jealous methinks.
They're doing nothing illegal and most people, if they had the opportunity to minimise their tax payments and maximise their net income would jump at the chance. That doesn't make someone morally bankrupt - it makes them financially astute.
There are always exceptions to the rule but the only people I know who are in the 50% bracket have got there by sheer hard work, study and putting in the hours. Not everybody wants to do this , I think you make to many sacrifices in your personal life but to then be told pay up half your salary and think yourself lucky is a bit ignorant.
I totally agree. On DS there seems to exist this belief by many that all high earners are just lucky and don't deserve it. Jealousy, that's all.
That's a subject for a different thread and it's all about supply and demand. We could argue until the cows come home about which celebs we think have talent or not. Fact is, the number of people who are talented enough to fill a stadium every night with crowds wanting to watch them perform music (as in the case of Gary Barlow) is much, much lower than the number who are talented enough to train as a nurse. That's just life, get over it.
Since you specifically ask about Vernon Kay, I think he's alright, I'm not a particular fan of his. But he wouldn't be paid what he's paid if the people who decide his wages didn't think they were getting a decent return for it. Same as any TV presenter.
Vernon and Gary didn't create the economic system they are just benefiting from it, by any normal logic they should both consider themselves 'lucky' even if they were geniuses they should consider themselves lucky to earn such huge amounts of cash compared to other people who work really hard, I am sure they do
Mileage allowances, food allowances, avoiding national insurance, and paying a small salary and the rest as a dividend, spring to mind.
Surely you have to be a registered company to pay yourself any kind of salary? My income/ expenses are a very simple sum, a minus b. I do take off mileage, and since I have to do the mileage I don't see that as tax avoidance.
There are always exceptions to the rule but the only people I know who are in the 50% bracket have got there by sheer hard work, study and putting in the hours. Not everybody wants to do this , I think you make to many sacrifices in your personal life but to then be told pay up half your salary and think yourself lucky is a bit ignorant.
I think that's a bit of a cop-out, though I agree with those who say that entertainers and sports people are not a good example, since they need a VERY big slice of luck, talent or both to earn a fortune. But some of the hardest working and most determined people earn the least. That honestly is a plain fact, and anyone who works in elderly care would confirm it. Not only do carers work long and unsocial hours for very miserly pay, but a lot of them are graduates, even in subjects like dentistry or medicine, but find that their qualifications are not recognised in the UK and can't afford to re-qualify. And the same with self-employed people; your chances of making it are much higher if you start from a position of privilege, so you can tide yourself over the terrible first year when it is all spending and hardly any money coming in. Look at the number of people who open restaurants, take aways, shops, taxi companies and work ferociously hard, but still barely scrape by.
People are, in my experience, very unwilling to credit good fortune for helping them, because it is so much more flattering to credit everything to your own intelligence and determination, but the truth is that there are any number of clever, determined people who just didn't get the breaks; those who do might practise a bit of humility for the good of their souls and admit that they have been lucky as well as worthy.
Real people with real jobs don't have achoice about whether they pay tax as we are on PAYE when working.
It has started to sicken me to the stomach when comedians & pop singers who are worth millions even after tax such as Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow try to get out of their tax paying responisbilities.
These taxes pay for the NHS, The Police, the nations defence, schools, roads, pensions etc.
Most of us would like to pay less tax but we all know without it a cilvilsed society would collapse.
These greedy, selflish "celebrity" types should be hounded for every penny by the tax authorities.
Everyone avoids tax if possible, claiming expences is avoiding tax and is legal. Some people can afford better accountants than others. Why not turn your attentions to the likes of Amazon, Vodafone , Phillip Green etc .
Surely you have to be a registered company to pay yourself any kind of salary? My income/ expenses are a very simple sum, a minus b. I do take off mileage, and since I have to do the mileage I don't see that as tax avoidance.
If you're self-employed and that's all the accounting you're doing, you need a new accountant.
Comments
Those on minimum wage should not pay any tax (I believe this a new Tory policy) & should be the tax allowance.
After that simple- 30% for everyone......no matter what the salary or source of your income (and I'm quite aware that the top 10% of earners pay 50% of total income tax, or something like that)
I think what peeves people is that the government doesn't appear to spend their hard earned dollars wisely or in a way they would wish.
I think the biggest celebrity tax dodger (in a grey hinterland between avoidance and outright fraud) must be Bernie Ecclestone, whose unpaid taxes ran into the billions. He did an amazingly sharky sounding deal with the R & C by which he paid about 5p and a conker and they agreed to let him off.
They all grease each other's back, and always will.
Mileage allowances, food allowances, avoiding national insurance, and paying a small salary and the rest as a dividend, spring to mind.
Like Google and Amazon can't be shamed into operating ethically over taxes, they can't be forced to pay up, so they won't, and if they finally made to them they will throw all their employees onto the dole.
And on the whole Govt. is fine with that, because they are all at the same trough gobbling up everything, and getting fat.
Sorry, that sounds like a bit of a cop out to me.
If the government really wanted to stop these loopholes, they would. They have the power to do so. But for whatever reason you care to believe, they choose not to.
Maybe they realise that taking 50% of people's earnings, meaning that they work for 6 months every year for nothing, is a bit unfair
Maybe they do. I'm not against people minimising their tax liability. I'm self employed and do it myself. I still pay far more than the average person does though.
if you are earning enough to pay 50% you should be thanking your lucky stars and not moaning about paying a bit of tax :cool:
I really love the notion that anyone earning a lot of money is "lucky".
Utter bollocks. The vast majority of people in that earnings bracket got there through hard work and talent. Not luck.
is there any evidence of this, seeing as we are talking about celebrities do you not think Vernon Kay is 'lucky' to be earning about fifty times more than a nurse?
There are always exceptions to the rule but the only people I know who are in the 50% bracket have got there by sheer hard work, study and putting in the hours. Not everybody wants to do this , I think you make to many sacrifices in your personal life but to then be told pay up half your salary and think yourself lucky is a bit ignorant.
That's a subject for a different thread and it's all about supply and demand. We could argue until the cows come home about which celebs we think have talent or not. Fact is, the number of people who are talented enough to fill a stadium every night with crowds wanting to watch them perform music (as in the case of Gary Barlow) is much, much lower than the number who are talented enough to train as a nurse. That's just life, get over it.
Since you specifically ask about Vernon Kay, I think he's alright, I'm not a particular fan of his. But he wouldn't be paid what he's paid if the people who decide his wages didn't think they were getting a decent return for it. Same as any TV presenter.
Someone's a little bit jealous methinks.
They're doing nothing illegal and most people, if they had the opportunity to minimise their tax payments and maximise their net income would jump at the chance. That doesn't make someone morally bankrupt - it makes them financially astute.
I totally agree. On DS there seems to exist this belief by many that all high earners are just lucky and don't deserve it. Jealousy, that's all.
Vernon and Gary didn't create the economic system they are just benefiting from it, by any normal logic they should both consider themselves 'lucky' even if they were geniuses they should consider themselves lucky to earn such huge amounts of cash compared to other people who work really hard, I am sure they do
Many posters on DS appear to be atheist and physicalist - everything including ones own existence and predisposition is down to luck.
I'd ask why high earners get far greater slices of the pie and lower earners get much thinner slices than say twenty years ago.
I think that's a bit of a cop-out, though I agree with those who say that entertainers and sports people are not a good example, since they need a VERY big slice of luck, talent or both to earn a fortune. But some of the hardest working and most determined people earn the least. That honestly is a plain fact, and anyone who works in elderly care would confirm it. Not only do carers work long and unsocial hours for very miserly pay, but a lot of them are graduates, even in subjects like dentistry or medicine, but find that their qualifications are not recognised in the UK and can't afford to re-qualify. And the same with self-employed people; your chances of making it are much higher if you start from a position of privilege, so you can tide yourself over the terrible first year when it is all spending and hardly any money coming in. Look at the number of people who open restaurants, take aways, shops, taxi companies and work ferociously hard, but still barely scrape by.
People are, in my experience, very unwilling to credit good fortune for helping them, because it is so much more flattering to credit everything to your own intelligence and determination, but the truth is that there are any number of clever, determined people who just didn't get the breaks; those who do might practise a bit of humility for the good of their souls and admit that they have been lucky as well as worthy.
Everyone avoids tax if possible, claiming expences is avoiding tax and is legal. Some people can afford better accountants than others. Why not turn your attentions to the likes of Amazon, Vodafone , Phillip Green etc .
I do think that is more of an issue wage disparity.
Once when earned and then VAT?
Perhaps Governments are being immoral in taxing it a third time.
(although they do that on alcohol, tobacco and fuel of course)
If you're self-employed and that's all the accounting you're doing, you need a new accountant.