I suppose parents of disabled children that are really hard work who occasionally need respite and time to give to their other children to prevent them from being affected negatively are also bad parents, yes? Abandoning their children when they 'need' them?
Your ignorance is astounding. You don't even know how insulting you are to try and make assumptions about someone's mother online. You disgust me.
Dont even try insulting my mothers parenting when you do not know the full story. You have no idea what I 'needed' or what was going on...at the time actually I didnt feel I needed her at all. I am not going into the full story on here as it would be too time consuming, so please stop making insulting presumptions about a very personal matter and time of my life that you only know a tiny bit about. My mother was a great mother and likely a better one than you are, if you are one. It was partly my decision to go into care aswell.
Who said neglect isn't a criminal offence? Wtf are you talking about?
After the way society and the justice system has treated me and the shockingly low sentence (not even custodial) they gave to my rapists who admitted they did it so there was no doubt, and the way I was let down badly by the education system who did nothing when one of the boys tried to rape me again in school (this ruined my education, by the way), I am not putting myself through anything like that again and don't dare ever tell me I should.
I was kidnapped round about the time I was in care by 2 asian men with my friend (they literally pulled us off the street, it was still light!) and we did report that to the police, and the statements magically had disappeared when we tried checking up what they were doing about it. In short, they covered it up. I do not trust any system in this country, and dont ever dare try and make it my responsibility to stop that man. I am working on my own life and family now and want to forget about it. The last thing I need is more terrorizing and questioning and being made to feel its all my fault, I am a liar, what were you wearing etc etc.
I'm sorry you had the experiences that you did...no one should have to live through that. Difficult lives are complex and its impossible to examine all the variables of your life and your experiences so I am not intending to try. I too could give you war and peace if I chose to but I don't because it is not relevant to this boy being three times the weight he should be.
I suppose parents of disabled children that are really hard work who occasionally need respite and time to give to their other children to prevent them from being affected negatively are also bad parents, yes? Abandoning their children when they 'need' them?
Your ignorance is astounding. You don't even know how insulting you are to try and make assumptions about someone's mother online. You disgust me.
Why do you insist on chucking your stuff out there?? Its a bloody debating thread so if you are going to use your experiences to attack what I say how am I supposed to respond?
'Not true....section 20 is always used first and it only escalates if there are grounds to. '
How on earth is that relevant to what I said? You state that children are in care because of bad parenting and I explained that infact that isn't the case...you then come out with this crap?
Oh I didnt.....I said that children are usually already damaged by the time they come into care. You had to personalise it.
Well there you have it then, you are advocating taking the large babies off fat women, because it does happen, because fat women/women who already have diabetes often develop gestational diabetes causing their baby to be fat. This diabetes is usually caused by diet and lifestyle.
A bit of a radical stance to take don't you think? Especially given most of the population is overweight as it is, you'd be taking 1000s of babies.
It has to be said that maternity and neo natal services are stretched these days due to the large amount of fat women with diabetes having babies and women who are past it fertility wise (and often fat with diabetes/HBP/other health problems aswell). If a baby is harmed by either of these lifestyle decisions, should they be removed? An overweight woman with diabetes is more likely to have a fat/stillborn/otherwise unhealthy baby.
Oh I didnt.....I said that children are usually already damaged by the time they come into care. You had to personalise it.
Yes, you missed out where you said they are damaged by the parenting of the biological parents. This is rubbish, I'm afraid. There are cases like mine, and there are also plenty of children whose parents have died who are in care. Try telling them they are there because their parents were crap.
Dont even try insulting my mothers parenting when you do not know the full story. You have no idea what I 'needed' or what was going on...at the time actually I didnt feel I needed her at all. I am not going into the full story on here as it would be too time consuming, so please stop making insulting presumptions about a very personal matter and time of my life that you only know a tiny bit about. My mother was a great mother and likely a better one than you are, if you are one. It was partly my decision to go into care aswell.
Who said neglect isn't a criminal offence? Wtf are you talking about?
After the way society and the justice system has treated me and the shockingly low sentence (not even custodial) they gave to my rapists who admitted they did it so there was no doubt, and the way I was let down badly by the education system who did nothing when one of the boys tried to rape me again in school (this ruined my education, by the way), I am not putting myself through anything like that again and don't dare ever tell me I should.
I was kidnapped round about the time I was in care by 2 asian men with my friend (they literally pulled us off the street, it was still light!) and we did report that to the police, and the statements magically had disappeared when we tried checking up what they were doing about it. In short, they covered it up. I do not trust any system in this country, and dont ever dare try and make it my responsibility to stop that man. I am working on my own life and family now and want to forget about it. The last thing I need is more terrorizing and questioning and being made to feel its all my fault, I am a liar, what were you wearing etc etc.
It sounds like you were let down by a lot of people. You're always banging on about how crap your life has been. All the more reason not to let others down IMO.
It sounds like you were let down by a lot of people. You're always banging on about how crap your life has been. All the more reason not to let others down IMO.
Thanks for that
I cannot take you seriously if you believe being let down about being raped and sexually abused is the same as being let down in this way.... I guess no one is forcing this 11 year old to eat so much?
Well there you have it then, you are advocating taking the large babies off fat women, because it does happen, because fat women/women who already have diabetes often develop gestational diabetes causing their baby to be fat. This diabetes is usually caused by diet and lifestyle.
A bit of a radical stance to take don't you think? Especially given most of the population is overweight as it is, you'd be taking 1000s of babies.
It has to be said that maternity and neo natal services are stretched these days due to the large amount of fat women with diabetes having babies and women who are past it fertility wise (and often fat with diabetes/HBP/other health problems aswell). If a baby is harmed by either of these lifestyle decisions, should they be removed? An overweight woman with diabetes is more likely to have a fat/stillborn/otherwise unhealthy baby.
Yes, you missed out where you said they are damaged by the parenting of the biological parents. This is rubbish, I'm afraid. There are cases like mine, and there are also plenty of children whose parents have died who are in care. Try telling them they are there because their parents were crap.
If so that proves to me your stance is radical....to personalize it further my first foster mother was massively obese and so was her 14 year old daughter who lived with us...the food wasnt particularly healthy there either so why do people presume foster care- a healthier lifestyle, diet and family for this boy?
If so that proves to me your stance is radical....to personalize it further my first foster mother was massively obese and so was her 14 year old daughter who lived with us...the food wasnt particularly healthy there either so why do people presume foster care- a healthier lifestyle, diet and family for this boy?
You are going to have to tell me where I said babies should be removed from overweight mothers because I dont believe that I did.
BTW, not ignoring your other comment but I'm not responding to your posts about your personal experiences.....I dont think it is fair to either of us. Its a debating forum.
You are going to have to tell me where I said babies should be removed from overweight mothers because I dont believe that I did.
BTW, not ignoring your other comment but I'm not responding to your posts about your personal experiences.....I dont think it is fair to either of us. Its a debating forum.
I was merely making a point a foster family and home isnt necessarily going to be a beacon of salad, exercise and health.
You seem to believe if a parents lifestyle choices and the diet they inflict on their family causes their child to be overweight they should go into care...surely you must extend this to women with unhealthy diets that affect their unborn baby in the womb?
I was merely making a point a foster family and home isnt necessarily going to be a beacon of salad, exercise and health.
You seem to believe if a parents lifestyle choices and the diet they inflict on their family causes their child to be overweight they should go into care...surely you must extend this to women with unhealthy diets that affect their unborn baby in the womb?
I dont extend anything anywhere....I'd be bloody stupid if I made some of the generalisations which you are suggesting. Its like you think child protection is some sort of shopping list where you tick off boxes against a pre-determined criteria.
This thread is about a boy who is three times the size he should be....he is MORBIDLY OBESE so if things do not change this boy will die young and his life will be blighted with a huge number of health conditions which will be life changing. He is struggling to climb stairs because of his weight so is no longer getting washed...before long he will have sores and ulcers. The health services contacted the police because overfeeding an 11 year old child to the point where his health is at risk is neglect and neglect is a criminal offence.
The article states that there have been numerous attempts to work with the parents in supporting them to manage his diet but they are not engaging and continue to feed him milkshakes and take away food. How many times the normal size do you think he should get before someone takes action.....should he be unable to walk....how about he gets pressure sores which eat his skin away to the bone. At what point do you think that someone should do someone to help this child?
Just to echo what taglet said, this boy is suffering already and i think ss are at crisis point and the police were a last resort to really kick the parents into doing something.
At 11 years old he struggles to climb the stairs, and more worringly he fell over at school and was physically unable to get up unaided! Can we just imagine how humiliating and scary that must have been for him? Just think how many 11 year olds regulary dive along the floor and get up no problem. Imagine if he fell while he was alone?
Obesity is a problem in this area and its getting worse. Obesity is awful. There are adults who literally havent been out of bed in ten years because they cannot walk and cannot support themselves in a seated position. There are people with bedsores all over them who need a team to wash and dress them. A lot of them are incontinent and constantly in and out of hospital. What sort of life is that to inflict on a child?
I dont think taking him away is beneficial to his emotional wellbeing. I would like to see the diet enforced by a specialist team with regular weigh-ins and monitoring. However i doubt the parents will be willing to change. In order for the son to benefit they all need to diet. Its no good them eating takeaway while he has a small salad as he isnt going to want to diet is he?
I'm not against interventions that work but asking morbidly obese people to control a strict diet and then arresting them when they can't, which should've been obvious from the situation,is silly and its no surprise atall that it failed. A far better idea would have been to send him to one of the fat camp over the summer, so he could meet others like him and see that change is possible.
I'm not against interventions that work but asking morbidly obese people to control a strict diet and then arresting them when they can't, which should've been obvious from the situation,is silly and its no surprise atall that it failed. A far better idea would have been to send him to one of the fat camp over the summer, so he could meet others like him and see that change is possible.
That might work but as has been mentioned before, what about when he returns home? His parents will still be gorging on take aways so it wont take long until he puts all the weight back on.
The fat camp would only work long term if he and his family were commited to it. At 11 hes probably happier eating take aways, playing computer games and being overweight as its what hes used to. If it was his decision to lose weight then the camp could have positive results but only if his parents maintain the diet at home.
It is a tricky situation. Also at 11 years old even if he has some learning disabilities he will know what he want's to eat.
Now I was a fat teenager ill admit it but it was because I ate all the wrong things. I knew what foods I had to eat to loose weight but would not eat them. I refused to eat a majority of fresh vegetables and fruit as I did not like the taste or texture in my mouth and would gag everytime I tried to eat them.
In the end I was eating potatoes and fish fingers nearly everyday as mum was fed up of me leaving everything else she cooked. Mealtimes became a warzone and I also used to go to the shops and buy chocolate with my pocket money and eat it on the way home so I would be full come tea time so I would not have to eat the food that I did not like and be hungry.
However I now realise that I was right pain to my parents. I now I eat a lot better than I used too. As i am now a parent myself I give my children what they need to be eating. With the occasional treat like McDonalds every now and again.
Whilst my OH was also overweight as a teenager but she used to comfort eat chocolate and crisps because of family issues.
Thankfully our children are not overweight and I have apologised over the years to my parents for putting them through hell with my eating habbits.
That might work but as has been mentioned before, what about when he returns home? His parents will still be gorging on take aways so it wont take long until he puts all the weight back on.
The fat camp would only work long term if he and his family were commited to it. At 11 hes probably happier eating take aways, playing computer games and being overweight as its what hes used to. If it was his decision to lose weight then the camp could have positive results but only if his parents maintain the diet at home.
I agree their may be obstacles but the current situation, as is normally the case when people get to that stage, is one where they may be paying lip service but in reality they've given up. Arresting them isn't going to make them eat better, so the best solution is to get him out of the situation and into a place where he can break his habits and learn what works. Their will always be problems down the line but you have to start something to get it done and I doubt arresting them or the possible later option of putting him in care are better than putting him in a place with proper weight loss experts.
Yep....my sister and she has suffered life long ill health. She is now nearly blind and is losing her ability to walk. Why? Because my mother was mentally ill and used food to bribe her and buy her love. In this case it is neglect.
I'm going to start with this.
Regardless of interactions, the snipping and bad feelings between us I am sorry taglet that this is the case for your sister and your Mum.
My Mum was metally ill and my life as a child wasn't that good, through all the licks and her paranoia, her long moments of love for us all were just amazing and I would never have wanted anyone to arrest her.
You tell me....leave him where he is and what happens?
Not stand by--no, but leave him where he is if at all possible.
What would you do with this boy....three times the size he should be, cant get up the stairs. What would you do?[
We are talking morbidly obese here.....not fat. It means his life is at risk.
I understand the concern and as a starter I would put the family into a GFF, but what you don't do is use the police service as fat control.
You don't villanise the parents in a manoeuvre where the possible outcome is the kid being taken into care, and that is IMO what the arrest of these parents was about.
And one of my questions remain and I ask you what next, are parents arrested and charged with neglect because their kids were obese and loved in days gone?
Most children do badly in care because of their poor start in life, not because care is bad. Do your research!
I love reading research. Please find me some that - and I'm not sure how this would be possible - separates out the effects of 'a poor start in life' from the effect of being taken into care.
I think his chances of this child growing up into a well adjusted young man are fairly minimal where he is living. The majority of children are placed with other members of the family and only if that is not possible are they placed in foster care. Residential homes only accommodate those who cannot be placed with a family because their experiences have been so traumatic, their behaviour is unmanageable in an ordinary home.
Older children and those with autism are far more likely than others to be placed in residential homes. I am sure the residential programmes for people with autism are excellent - at least I hope so, for the cost - but I have to say that I recently read an account of one (very favourable) that singled out that the person concerned became extremely obese while at the residential home.
He is three times the size he should be and all the efforts to support the mother and father managing his diet fell on deaf ears. How big would you like him to be before you would accept that an intervention was necessary?
'An intervention' is a usefully vague term.
Extreme over-eating really can be closer to anorexia than people often want to admit: both conditions can have a clinically obsessive component. We do indeed offer (not very generous, on financial grounds) 'interventions' in cases where a child is identified as having anorexia, but that intervention does not involve either punishing the parents or removing their child. The unfortunate truth seems to be that whereas programmes for children with anorexia are scarce and difficult to access, programmes for children who over-eat seem to be completely absent. It really is unlikely that the parents have been holding their son down and forcing food into him. It is far more likely that, as with parents of children with other eating disorders, they have failed to find strategies that control his eating.
As I said earlier, I once chanced on a forum for parents of obese children, and it opened my eyes to a whole world of anguish and struggle. These were not uncaring parents: they were parents who lived in a world of micro-management and padlocks and endless vigilance that most of us can barely imagine.
Regardless of interactions, the snipping and bad feelings between us I am sorry taglet that this is the case for your sister and your Mum.
My Mum was metally ill and my life as a child wasn't that good, through all the licks and her paranoia, her long moments of love for us all were just amazing and I would never have wanted anyone to arrest her.
Not stand by--no, but leave him where he is if at all possible.
I understand the concern and as a starter I would put the family into a GFF, but what you don't do is use the police service as fat control.
You don't villanise the parents in a manoeuvre where the possible outcome is the kid being taken into care, and that is IMO what the arrest of these parents was about.
And one of my questions remain and I ask you what next, are parents arrested and charged with neglect because their kids were obese and loved in days gone?
Right I'm clearer now about where you are going. The two systems (police and safeguarding children) are completely separate but there are also unavoidable links between them. When a child has been harmed or there is a risk associated with neglect social services cannot act until they have a strategy meeting with the police....its not discretionary, its part of law. The systems are separate because because one uses criminal law and the other family law (the children act 1989). The police look for evidence to bring a criminal prosecution and need 'beyond reasonable doubt' evidence and the safeguarding team uses 'on the balance of probability. There are many times safeguarding intervenes and the police do not bring charges (insufficient evidence or not in the public interest) but the important issue is that interventions are not dependent on the police acting because they use different courts.
This boy could be safeguarded using the children act without any need to bring a criminal charge against the parents. For the record, I am not sure that it is helpful to bring a criminal prosecution against parents if the aim is to bring about change and get the child home (where children are on the whole, best care for) because it works against that aim. However children's safeguarding cannot tell the police what to do and if they feel they wish to bring charges they will. Obviously if a child has been assulted/abused and has been harmed then it is in the public interest for those who have harmed the child to be brought to account under criminal law. In this case I do not believe it would be helpful. in essence it appears that we hold the same view on that.
Right I'm clearer now about where you are going. The two systems (police and safeguarding children) are completely separate but there are also unavoidable links between them. When a child has been harmed or there is a risk associated with neglect social services cannot act until they have a strategy meeting with the police....its not discretionary, its part of law. The systems are separate because because one uses criminal law and the other family law (the children act 1989). The police look for evidence to bring a criminal prosecution and need 'beyond reasonable doubt' evidence and the safeguarding team uses 'on the balance of probability. There are many times safeguarding intervenes and the police do not bring charges (insufficient evidence or not in the public interest) but the important issue is that interventions are not dependent on the police acting because they use different courts.
This boy could be safeguarded using the children act without any need to bring a criminal charge against the parents. For the record, I am not sure that it is helpful to bring a criminal prosecution against parents if the aim is to bring about change and get the child home (where children are on the whole, best care for) because it works against that aim. However children's safeguarding cannot tell the police what to do and if they feel they wish to bring charges they will. Obviously if a child has been assulted/abused and has been harmed then it is in the public interest for those who have harmed the child to be brought to account under criminal law. In this case I do not believe it would be helpful. in essence it appears that we hold the same view on that.
Comments
I suppose parents of disabled children that are really hard work who occasionally need respite and time to give to their other children to prevent them from being affected negatively are also bad parents, yes? Abandoning their children when they 'need' them?
Your ignorance is astounding. You don't even know how insulting you are to try and make assumptions about someone's mother online. You disgust me.
I'm sorry you had the experiences that you did...no one should have to live through that. Difficult lives are complex and its impossible to examine all the variables of your life and your experiences so I am not intending to try. I too could give you war and peace if I chose to but I don't because it is not relevant to this boy being three times the weight he should be.
Why do you insist on chucking your stuff out there?? Its a bloody debating thread so if you are going to use your experiences to attack what I say how am I supposed to respond?
Oh I didnt.....I said that children are usually already damaged by the time they come into care. You had to personalise it.
Well there you have it then, you are advocating taking the large babies off fat women, because it does happen, because fat women/women who already have diabetes often develop gestational diabetes causing their baby to be fat. This diabetes is usually caused by diet and lifestyle.
A bit of a radical stance to take don't you think? Especially given most of the population is overweight as it is, you'd be taking 1000s of babies.
It has to be said that maternity and neo natal services are stretched these days due to the large amount of fat women with diabetes having babies and women who are past it fertility wise (and often fat with diabetes/HBP/other health problems aswell). If a baby is harmed by either of these lifestyle decisions, should they be removed? An overweight woman with diabetes is more likely to have a fat/stillborn/otherwise unhealthy baby.
Yes, you missed out where you said they are damaged by the parenting of the biological parents. This is rubbish, I'm afraid. There are cases like mine, and there are also plenty of children whose parents have died who are in care. Try telling them they are there because their parents were crap.
It sounds like you were let down by a lot of people. You're always banging on about how crap your life has been. All the more reason not to let others down IMO.
Thanks for that
I cannot take you seriously if you believe being let down about being raped and sexually abused is the same as being let down in this way.... I guess no one is forcing this 11 year old to eat so much?
Are you arguing with yourself now?
Stop making stuff up.....THIS is what I said.
Would that not include those with parents who have died.?
So you do think such babies should be removed?
If so that proves to me your stance is radical....to personalize it further my first foster mother was massively obese and so was her 14 year old daughter who lived with us...the food wasnt particularly healthy there either so why do people presume foster care- a healthier lifestyle, diet and family for this boy?
Yes, but your stance appears to be a child is default better off in foster care.....this isnt the case.
You say 'not because care is bad'- there is lots of evidence it isn't good either.
You are going to have to tell me where I said babies should be removed from overweight mothers because I dont believe that I did.
BTW, not ignoring your other comment but I'm not responding to your posts about your personal experiences.....I dont think it is fair to either of us. Its a debating forum.
I didnt say that.
I was merely making a point a foster family and home isnt necessarily going to be a beacon of salad, exercise and health.
You seem to believe if a parents lifestyle choices and the diet they inflict on their family causes their child to be overweight they should go into care...surely you must extend this to women with unhealthy diets that affect their unborn baby in the womb?
I dont extend anything anywhere....I'd be bloody stupid if I made some of the generalisations which you are suggesting. Its like you think child protection is some sort of shopping list where you tick off boxes against a pre-determined criteria.
This thread is about a boy who is three times the size he should be....he is MORBIDLY OBESE so if things do not change this boy will die young and his life will be blighted with a huge number of health conditions which will be life changing. He is struggling to climb stairs because of his weight so is no longer getting washed...before long he will have sores and ulcers. The health services contacted the police because overfeeding an 11 year old child to the point where his health is at risk is neglect and neglect is a criminal offence.
The article states that there have been numerous attempts to work with the parents in supporting them to manage his diet but they are not engaging and continue to feed him milkshakes and take away food. How many times the normal size do you think he should get before someone takes action.....should he be unable to walk....how about he gets pressure sores which eat his skin away to the bone. At what point do you think that someone should do someone to help this child?
At 11 years old he struggles to climb the stairs, and more worringly he fell over at school and was physically unable to get up unaided! Can we just imagine how humiliating and scary that must have been for him? Just think how many 11 year olds regulary dive along the floor and get up no problem. Imagine if he fell while he was alone?
Obesity is a problem in this area and its getting worse. Obesity is awful. There are adults who literally havent been out of bed in ten years because they cannot walk and cannot support themselves in a seated position. There are people with bedsores all over them who need a team to wash and dress them. A lot of them are incontinent and constantly in and out of hospital. What sort of life is that to inflict on a child?
I dont think taking him away is beneficial to his emotional wellbeing. I would like to see the diet enforced by a specialist team with regular weigh-ins and monitoring. However i doubt the parents will be willing to change. In order for the son to benefit they all need to diet. Its no good them eating takeaway while he has a small salad as he isnt going to want to diet is he?
That might work but as has been mentioned before, what about when he returns home? His parents will still be gorging on take aways so it wont take long until he puts all the weight back on.
The fat camp would only work long term if he and his family were commited to it. At 11 hes probably happier eating take aways, playing computer games and being overweight as its what hes used to. If it was his decision to lose weight then the camp could have positive results but only if his parents maintain the diet at home.
Now I was a fat teenager ill admit it but it was because I ate all the wrong things. I knew what foods I had to eat to loose weight but would not eat them. I refused to eat a majority of fresh vegetables and fruit as I did not like the taste or texture in my mouth and would gag everytime I tried to eat them.
In the end I was eating potatoes and fish fingers nearly everyday as mum was fed up of me leaving everything else she cooked. Mealtimes became a warzone and I also used to go to the shops and buy chocolate with my pocket money and eat it on the way home so I would be full come tea time so I would not have to eat the food that I did not like and be hungry.
However I now realise that I was right pain to my parents. I now I eat a lot better than I used too. As i am now a parent myself I give my children what they need to be eating. With the occasional treat like McDonalds every now and again.
Whilst my OH was also overweight as a teenager but she used to comfort eat chocolate and crisps because of family issues.
Thankfully our children are not overweight and I have apologised over the years to my parents for putting them through hell with my eating habbits.
I agree their may be obstacles but the current situation, as is normally the case when people get to that stage, is one where they may be paying lip service but in reality they've given up. Arresting them isn't going to make them eat better, so the best solution is to get him out of the situation and into a place where he can break his habits and learn what works. Their will always be problems down the line but you have to start something to get it done and I doubt arresting them or the possible later option of putting him in care are better than putting him in a place with proper weight loss experts.
Regardless of interactions, the snipping and bad feelings between us I am sorry taglet that this is the case for your sister and your Mum.
My Mum was metally ill and my life as a child wasn't that good, through all the licks and her paranoia, her long moments of love for us all were just amazing and I would never have wanted anyone to arrest her. Not stand by--no, but leave him where he is if at all possible. I understand the concern and as a starter I would put the family into a GFF, but what you don't do is use the police service as fat control.
You don't villanise the parents in a manoeuvre where the possible outcome is the kid being taken into care, and that is IMO what the arrest of these parents was about.
And one of my questions remain and I ask you what next, are parents arrested and charged with neglect because their kids were obese and loved in days gone?
'An intervention' is a usefully vague term.
Extreme over-eating really can be closer to anorexia than people often want to admit: both conditions can have a clinically obsessive component. We do indeed offer (not very generous, on financial grounds) 'interventions' in cases where a child is identified as having anorexia, but that intervention does not involve either punishing the parents or removing their child. The unfortunate truth seems to be that whereas programmes for children with anorexia are scarce and difficult to access, programmes for children who over-eat seem to be completely absent. It really is unlikely that the parents have been holding their son down and forcing food into him. It is far more likely that, as with parents of children with other eating disorders, they have failed to find strategies that control his eating.
As I said earlier, I once chanced on a forum for parents of obese children, and it opened my eyes to a whole world of anguish and struggle. These were not uncaring parents: they were parents who lived in a world of micro-management and padlocks and endless vigilance that most of us can barely imagine.
Right I'm clearer now about where you are going. The two systems (police and safeguarding children) are completely separate but there are also unavoidable links between them. When a child has been harmed or there is a risk associated with neglect social services cannot act until they have a strategy meeting with the police....its not discretionary, its part of law. The systems are separate because because one uses criminal law and the other family law (the children act 1989). The police look for evidence to bring a criminal prosecution and need 'beyond reasonable doubt' evidence and the safeguarding team uses 'on the balance of probability. There are many times safeguarding intervenes and the police do not bring charges (insufficient evidence or not in the public interest) but the important issue is that interventions are not dependent on the police acting because they use different courts.
This boy could be safeguarded using the children act without any need to bring a criminal charge against the parents. For the record, I am not sure that it is helpful to bring a criminal prosecution against parents if the aim is to bring about change and get the child home (where children are on the whole, best care for) because it works against that aim. However children's safeguarding cannot tell the police what to do and if they feel they wish to bring charges they will. Obviously if a child has been assulted/abused and has been harmed then it is in the public interest for those who have harmed the child to be brought to account under criminal law. In this case I do not believe it would be helpful. in essence it appears that we hold the same view on that.