I was enjoying this but really disliked last night's episode.
I was particularly uncomfortable with Elizabeth storyline. I understand the arguments that have been put forward regarding Stockholm Syndrome but I really don't think that is what Jimmy McGovern has written.
I just think he has written a story where Girl is forced into having sex with a superior (rape), then realises he's actually not a monster but a sensitive soul and that she wants to 'make love' to him. Personally, I find it hugely mysoginistic and something only a male writer would write. Women don't fall in love with their rapists. I think it just supports (albeit unintentionally) the rape myth that 'she really wanted it all along'.
What a pile of xxxx. Hang someone, don't hang someone, hang someone, don't hang someone, etc etc etc. It's my woman, no I shagged her, it's my woman, no it's not, it's my woman. There is absolutely NO story at all. Just meaningless yatter, weeks went by on the blacksmith stealing food. This could have been so good. I will watch next weeks episode & that is it. Australia, the land where the Aborigines eat witchetty grubs. The land of a billion Kangaroos, fish a plenty, vegetables easy to grow, yet they need a bloody blacksmith & not anyone who can make or farm or fish FOOD. There is/was more food than could be dreamed of yet they are about to eat dead humans. Who wrote this tripe?
Ordinary lies on the other hand, well written well acted & believable plots. Take note Banished.
No, there wasn't. They were on rations because they were unprepared for the conditions and the climate. When the later supply ships didn't bring with them as much supplies as hoped (and more convicts) it got even worse before it got better. It was the lack of food that caused many of the convicts to die, so it is quite accurate on the show that food is such a big issue.
I was enjoying this but really disliked last night's episode.
I was particularly uncomfortable with Elizabeth storyline. I understand the arguments that have been put forward regarding Stockholm Syndrome but I really don't think that is what Jimmy McGovern has written.
I just think he has written a story where Girl is forced into having sex with a superior (rape), then realises he's actually not a monster but a sensitive soul and that she wants to 'make love' to him. Personally, I find it hugely mysoginistic and something only a male writer would write. Women don't fall in love with their rapists. I think it just supports (albeit unintentionally) the rape myth that 'she really wanted it all along'.
That's exactly how I feel about that particular story strand.
I thought this particular part of the story was pretty good, and I thought it was great to write a strong female character who showed strength in her own way.
I thought it was interesting when Ross started falling for her because it would be a bit of a payoff to see him suffer pain after the pain and deaths he must have caused to countless others.
But when it became apparent that she had fallen in love I thought FFS.>:(
Ross has shown that he's willing to have people put to death for selfish reasons, and the way that the character is I assume that he has.
Elizabeth seems to have forgotten why she's in the position she's in in the first place.
The very fact that he judges women as **** unless they prove otherwise to him that they're not, and judges people as scum unless they are of a higher status or class should tell her all she needs to know about the character of the man.
But she falls in love with him just because he told her a story about a time when he tried to be good, and doesn't see her as a **** anymore? Good grief.
I think it says something about the writer for them to have written the characters in this way.
Such a disappointment because Elizabeth looked to have been written rather well as a strong character in her quiet way, Originally in this story Ross tried to impress her with his track record as a soldier, and his status and standing, and didn't understand at all why she didn't love him. But then all that has crumbled away as the writer has opted to destroy all that and have her fall in love with him anyway and has fallen back on a cliche of having a damsel in distress fall for a dashing solider.
...And I realised I just don't care about any of the characters.
I was trying to work out why I couldn't get into the series and that is basically it. The storylines seem so contrived and there in no real action. I feel like I'm watching an 18th century soap - Home & Away - the prequel series!
All I can think is that Jimmy McGovern is on some kind of stong medication.
Story lines, character arcs, daft 'cliffhangers', repeated scenarios - it's thoroughly embarrassing. It doesn't belong on BBC1 never mind 2.
Just how many times have we had the 'you shagged my bird' crap? How many times have they been up and down the bloody hanging platform, has blondie stared out to sea , has the Governor urgently run over to ask a question, to decide if/when X will die, have the same people been in the same cell .... it's like some endless, mindless loop.
And what exactly are they building in the day time? Best I can tell the answer is 'Australia'.
All I can think is that Jimmy McGovern is on some kind of stong medication.
Story lines, character arcs, daft 'cliffhangers', repeated scenarios - it's thoroughly embarrassing. It doesn't belong on BBC1 never mind 2.
Just how many times have we had the 'you shagged my bird' crap? How many times have they been up and down the bloody hanging platform, has blondie stared out to sea , has the Governor urgently run over to ask a question, to decide if/when X will die, have the same people been in the same cell .... it's like some endless, mindless loop.
And what exactly are they building in the day time? Best I can tell the answer is 'Australia'.
I finish each episode feeling agitated and irritable, yet I know I will see this through to the end.
I know Tovey has come in for some stick on this thread, but I don't think any of the actors are going to shine with the script. I thought I was watching Julian RT in Greenwing at one point. Very surreal stuff.
That's exactly how I feel about that particular story strand.
I thought this particular part of the story was pretty good, and I thought it was great to write a strong female character who showed strength in her own way.
I thought it was interesting when Ross started falling for her because it would be a bit of a payoff to see him suffer pain after the pain and deaths he must have caused to countless others.
But when it became apparent that she had fallen in love I thought FFS.>:(
Ross has shown that he's willing to have people put to death for selfish reasons, and the way that the character is I assume that he has.
Elizabeth seems to have forgotten why she's in the position she's in in the first place.
The very fact that he judges women as **** unless they prove otherwise to him that they're not, and judges people as scum unless they are of a higher status or class should tell her all she needs to know about the character of the man.
But she falls in love with him just because he told her a story about a time when he tried to be good, and doesn't see her as a **** anymore? Good grief.
I think it says something about the writer for them to have written the characters in this way.
Such a disappointment because Elizabeth looked to have been written rather well as a strong character in her quiet way, Originally in this story Ross tried to impress her with his track record as a soldier, and his status and standing, and didn't understand at all why she didn't love him. But then all that has crumbled away as the writer has opted to destroy all that and have her fall in love with him anyway and has fallen back on a cliche of having a damsel in distress fall for a dashing solider.
Assuming you actually mean Katherine, I agree with your assessment.
(Elizabeth is Tommy's wife, and seemingly completely off limits to the soldiers as a result, unless of course she needs to do it in order to get somebody's throat cut!)
The convicts are all so unlikeable it's hard to give a damn what happens to them. I was begging Freeman to go ahead and hang himself at the end of that episode - and he could take Tommy and Elizabeth with him too.
This is my major programme with this series. I just don't give a damn about this trio. If Tommy is so desperate to get himself hanged, they should step aside and let him. I will gladly volunteer to be the hang(wo)man if James isn't up to it!
The most interesting character in this by far is the Major, and I've enjoyed seeing a slightly softer side to him with Kitty/Katherine. It's just a shame that the writing for her character has been so all over the shop. It was only a couple of episodes back that she was trying to commit suicide to avoid his advances, but now, because he confided one story about his past, she is quite literally throwing herself at him. If this series has been set over a longer period of time, her gradual softening towards him could have been more understandable. As it is, it just makes her look more mentally unstable than him!
Assuming you actually mean Katherine, I agree with your assessment.
(Elizabeth is Tommy's wife, and seemingly completely off limits to the soldiers as a result, unless of course she needs to do it in order to get somebody's throat cut!)
You're right, sorry.:D I haven't managed to remember all the names.
I also agree with the comments about Tommy. His wife Elizabeth;-):D has bent over backwards (probably literally too) in order to save his sorry hide, but he is so selfish that on more than one occasion he's tried his upmost to get himself killed.
He doesn't listen to her, doesn't show restraint when she pleads with him to, and has scant regard for any advice she offers to him.
He was at it again the other night when asked if he was prepared to apologise for beating Buckley half to death in order to save himself. Elizabeth says "Yes". To which he interrupts and answers... "No!"
Why does she bother with him? He evidently has no respect for her.
If he isn't prepared to take on board Elizabeth's words, and isn't even bothering to help himself, then let him hang. It seems to be what he wants and he doesn't seem to care about how Elizabeth feels about that.
You're right, sorry.:D I haven't managed to remember all the names.
I also agree with the comments about Tommy. His wife Elizabeth;-):D has bent over backwards (probably literally too) in order to save his sorry hide, but he is so selfish that on more than one occasion he's tried his upmost to get himself killed.
He doesn't listen to her, doesn't show restraint when she pleads with him to, and has scant regard for any advice she offers to him.
He was at it again the other night when asked if he was prepared to apologise for beating Buckley half to death in order to save himself. Elizabeth says "Yes". To which he interrupts and answers... "No!"
Why does she bother with him? He evidently has no respect for her.
If he isn't prepared to take on board Elizabeth's words, and isn't even bothering to help himself, then let him hang. It seems to be what he wants and he doesn't seem to care about how Elizabeth feels about that.
This is just how I feel about him as well - from the very first episode (why did she put herself through that flogging to save his self-righteous, selfish arse when he was nearly hung after his actions the very next night?) and then again after watching the last episode.
His male pride is far more important to him than the feelings of a woman he keeps purporting he loves.
It is now clear that the narrative of this series is a very simple one. We are supposed to have empathy/sympathy with the convicts and dislike the captors. Trouble is any we had for the convicts has been stretched to breaking point. I agree with this.
This is my major programme with this series. I just don't give a damn about this trio. If Tommy is so desperate to get himself hanged, they should step aside and let him. I will gladly volunteer to be the hang(wo)man if James isn't up to it!
!
This last week you had Sgt Timmins (the good guy) allowing Tommy to beat the hell out of Buckley. Corporal McDonald saying that he would rather Major Ross f..k Catherine than talk to her! Slowly but surely all the Brit captors are being made to be nasty individuals.
The outcome of the Catherine McVitie storyline. We are to feel sorry for her in the way she has been treated by the two soldiers. Again a victim of the Brit captors. I posted these a couple of weeks ago.
As for Catherine McVitie I agree that this is heading for her falling for the Major. That was obviously the story ark but I do think that they went too far with his treatment of her even after her attempted suicide for that story to be really believable. I know she doesn't know but his change in attitude is down to the Vicar & Governor. After the obviously rough session where she told him the story about covering for the other maid and saying goodbye (not goodnight) I thought there was a realisation that she wasn't the **** he kept saying she was. Next morning though he was still at it.
That is exactly right. In a series over a long period this storyline could be pursued. Major Ross realisation that the prisoners are not all the scum he saw them as when he started out. Letters Molloy this week being another example. The two week timeframe makes it incredulous but also in the case of Kitty dismissive of rape.
Catherine has to be a victim so her character had to be destroyed to make her one. This post sums up the mess and it makes me very uneasy that BBC is putting out drama like this. Suspect exposing our colonial past is more important though and showing women being abused is part of this.
That's exactly how I feel about that particular story strand.
I thought this particular part of the story was pretty good, and I thought it was great to write a strong female character who showed strength in her own way.
I thought it was interesting when Ross started falling for her because it would be a bit of a payoff to see him suffer pain after the pain and deaths he must have caused to countless others.
But when it became apparent that she had fallen in love I thought FFS.>:(
Ross has shown that he's willing to have people put to death for selfish reasons, and the way that the character is I assume that he has.
Elizabeth (Catherine) seems to have forgotten why she's in the position she's in in the first place.
The very fact that he judges women as **** unless they prove otherwise to him that they're not, and judges people as scum unless they are of a higher status or class should tell her all she needs to know about the character of the man.
But she falls in love with him just because he told her a story about a time when he tried to be good, and doesn't see her as a **** anymore? Good grief. I think it says something about the writer for them to have written the characters in this way.
Such a disappointment because Elizabeth (Catherine) looked to have been written rather well as a strong character in her quiet way, Originally in this story Ross tried to impress her with his track record as a soldier, and his status and standing, and didn't understand at all why she didn't love him. But then all that has crumbled away as the writer has opted to destroy all that and have her fall in love with him anyway and has fallen back on a cliche of having a damsel in distress fall for a dashing solider.
BIB - I agree this whole narrative is saying a lot about the beliefs of the writer.
It is now clear that the narrative of this series is a very simple one. We are supposed to have empathy/sympathy with the convicts and dislike the captors.
I have empathy/sympathy for both, and can see things from both perspectives 9as each side has their own strengths and weaknesses, their own objectives.
And in most respects for the convicts, it was neatly summed up by the question "Are they sent here as punishment or for punishment?", meanwhile the soldiers are led partly by their sense of military duty, partly by self-preservation in extreme circumstances, partly by self-interest. And the Governor (non-military) is treading a fine line between the two parties, firm but fair.
Slowly but surely all the Brit captors are being made to be nasty individuals.
I don't understand what you mean by 'Brit captors'. Everyone, convicts and soldiers, are British. I assume you're not British as we don't normally use the word 'Brit' to describe ourselves, that's normally a word Americans use.
I don't understand what you mean by 'Brit captors'. Everyone, convicts and soldiers, are British. I assume you're not British as we don't normally use the word 'Brit' to describe ourselves, that's normally a word Americans use.
I'm British. It's being written as the convicts being the 'future' Australians and the captors as the colonial masters.
I'm British. It's being written as the convicts being the 'future' Australians and the captors as the colonial masters.
But they're all British and therefore all colonials. They soldiers aren't "captors", it's a penal colony and therefore they need to keep law and order. Many of them will also be the ancestors of the 'future' Australians. The convicts had sentences to serve, and then they could go home or stay and make a future in Australia. They and their families weren't in penal servitude for all eternity.
That's exactly how I feel about that particular story strand.
I thought this particular part of the story was pretty good, and I thought it was great to write a strong female character who showed strength in her own way.
I thought it was interesting when Ross started falling for her because it would be a bit of a payoff to see him suffer pain after the pain and deaths he must have caused to countless others.
But when it became apparent that she had fallen in love I thought FFS.>:(
Ross has shown that he's willing to have people put to death for selfish reasons, and the way that the character is I assume that he has.
Elizabeth seems to have forgotten why she's in the position she's in in the first place.
The very fact that he judges women as **** unless they prove otherwise to him that they're not, and judges people as scum unless they are of a higher status or class should tell her all she needs to know about the character of the man.
But she falls in love with him just because he told her a story about a time when he tried to be good, and doesn't see her as a **** anymore? Good grief.
I think it says something about the writer for them to have written the characters in this way.
Such a disappointment because Elizabeth looked to have been written rather well as a strong character in her quiet way, Originally in this story Ross tried to impress her with his track record as a soldier, and his status and standing, and didn't understand at all why she didn't love him. But then all that has crumbled away as the writer has opted to destroy all that and have her fall in love with him anyway and has fallen back on a cliche of having a damsel in distress fall for a dashing solider.
Me too. I am still enjoying the series, but the storyline of Katherine falling in love with Ross, who is a thoroughly unpleasant person, not convincing at all. I mean how could she be so gullible in such a short space of time.
And I too am finding the 'shall we hang him or not theme' is getting a bit tedious.
Unlike Poldark, there is no mention of a series 2...wonder what the viewing figures are..
Me too. I am still enjoying the series, but the storyline of Katherine falling in love with Ross, who is a thoroughly unpleasant person, not convincing at all. I mean how could she be so gullible in such a short space of time.
And I too am finding the 'shall we hang him or not theme' is getting a bit tedious. Unlike Poldark, there is no mention of a series 2...wonder what the viewing figures are..
Around 2m on overnights, probably consolidates a bit higher.
Maybe not...series 2 of The Paradise was picking up well over 3m if I remember correctly and it was not renewed...
Paradise was bbc1, Banished is bbc2 so different expectations.
The figure for Thursday's overnight was 1.89 million, however it launched to 3.4m and has lost viewers each week. I am not sure of consolidated figures, it hasn't done as well as Wolf Hall though.
Paradise was bbc1, Banished is bbc2 so different expectations.
The figure for Thursday's overnight was 1.89 million, however it launched to 3.4m and has lost viewers each week. I am not sure of consolidated figures, it hasn't done as well as Wolf Hall though.
It's losing viewers week on week which doesn't surprise me. The one thing Banished has proved to me is that there is a drama to be written about this period. Are there any books written that are suitable for transfer to tv series. If a superb series like Tenko can be made then it could be done with this scenario.
As for the Catherine/Major Ross storyline. I thought last week that he would most likely get her sentence annulled via a deal with the Governor. This would be his way of getting her from Corporal McDonald. But no - she just fell in love in less than a week since he raped her and she attempted suicide!
Paradise was bbc1, Banished is bbc2 so different expectations.
The figure for Thursday's overnight was 1.89 million, however it launched to 3.4m and has lost viewers each week. I am not sure of consolidated figures, it hasn't done as well as Wolf Hall though.
Comments
I was particularly uncomfortable with Elizabeth storyline. I understand the arguments that have been put forward regarding Stockholm Syndrome but I really don't think that is what Jimmy McGovern has written.
I just think he has written a story where Girl is forced into having sex with a superior (rape), then realises he's actually not a monster but a sensitive soul and that she wants to 'make love' to him. Personally, I find it hugely mysoginistic and something only a male writer would write. Women don't fall in love with their rapists. I think it just supports (albeit unintentionally) the rape myth that 'she really wanted it all along'.
No, there wasn't. They were on rations because they were unprepared for the conditions and the climate. When the later supply ships didn't bring with them as much supplies as hoped (and more convicts) it got even worse before it got better. It was the lack of food that caused many of the convicts to die, so it is quite accurate on the show that food is such a big issue.
That's exactly how I feel about that particular story strand.
I thought this particular part of the story was pretty good, and I thought it was great to write a strong female character who showed strength in her own way.
I thought it was interesting when Ross started falling for her because it would be a bit of a payoff to see him suffer pain after the pain and deaths he must have caused to countless others.
But when it became apparent that she had fallen in love I thought FFS.>:(
Ross has shown that he's willing to have people put to death for selfish reasons, and the way that the character is I assume that he has.
Elizabeth seems to have forgotten why she's in the position she's in in the first place.
The very fact that he judges women as **** unless they prove otherwise to him that they're not, and judges people as scum unless they are of a higher status or class should tell her all she needs to know about the character of the man.
But she falls in love with him just because he told her a story about a time when he tried to be good, and doesn't see her as a **** anymore? Good grief.
I think it says something about the writer for them to have written the characters in this way.
Such a disappointment because Elizabeth looked to have been written rather well as a strong character in her quiet way, Originally in this story Ross tried to impress her with his track record as a soldier, and his status and standing, and didn't understand at all why she didn't love him. But then all that has crumbled away as the writer has opted to destroy all that and have her fall in love with him anyway and has fallen back on a cliche of having a damsel in distress fall for a dashing solider.
Story lines, character arcs, daft 'cliffhangers', repeated scenarios - it's thoroughly embarrassing. It doesn't belong on BBC1 never mind 2.
Just how many times have we had the 'you shagged my bird' crap? How many times have they been up and down the bloody hanging platform, has blondie stared out to sea , has the Governor urgently run over to ask a question, to decide if/when X will die, have the same people been in the same cell .... it's like some endless, mindless loop.
And what exactly are they building in the day time? Best I can tell the answer is 'Australia'.
I finish each episode feeling agitated and irritable, yet I know I will see this through to the end.
I know Tovey has come in for some stick on this thread, but I don't think any of the actors are going to shine with the script. I thought I was watching Julian RT in Greenwing at one point. Very surreal stuff.
Assuming you actually mean Katherine, I agree with your assessment.
(Elizabeth is Tommy's wife, and seemingly completely off limits to the soldiers as a result, unless of course she needs to do it in order to get somebody's throat cut!)
The most interesting character in this by far is the Major, and I've enjoyed seeing a slightly softer side to him with Kitty/Katherine. It's just a shame that the writing for her character has been so all over the shop. It was only a couple of episodes back that she was trying to commit suicide to avoid his advances, but now, because he confided one story about his past, she is quite literally throwing herself at him. If this series has been set over a longer period of time, her gradual softening towards him could have been more understandable. As it is, it just makes her look more mentally unstable than him!
You're right, sorry.:D I haven't managed to remember all the names.
I also agree with the comments about Tommy. His wife Elizabeth;-):D has bent over backwards (probably literally too) in order to save his sorry hide, but he is so selfish that on more than one occasion he's tried his upmost to get himself killed.
He doesn't listen to her, doesn't show restraint when she pleads with him to, and has scant regard for any advice she offers to him.
He was at it again the other night when asked if he was prepared to apologise for beating Buckley half to death in order to save himself. Elizabeth says "Yes". To which he interrupts and answers... "No!"
Why does she bother with him? He evidently has no respect for her.
If he isn't prepared to take on board Elizabeth's words, and isn't even bothering to help himself, then let him hang. It seems to be what he wants and he doesn't seem to care about how Elizabeth feels about that.
This is just how I feel about him as well - from the very first episode (why did she put herself through that flogging to save his self-righteous, selfish arse when he was nearly hung after his actions the very next night?) and then again after watching the last episode.
His male pride is far more important to him than the feelings of a woman he keeps purporting he loves.
This last week you had Sgt Timmins (the good guy) allowing Tommy to beat the hell out of Buckley. Corporal McDonald saying that he would rather Major Ross f..k Catherine than talk to her! Slowly but surely all the Brit captors are being made to be nasty individuals.
The outcome of the Catherine McVitie storyline. We are to feel sorry for her in the way she has been treated by the two soldiers. Again a victim of the Brit captors. I posted these a couple of weeks ago.
Catherine has to be a victim so her character had to be destroyed to make her one. This post sums up the mess and it makes me very uneasy that BBC is putting out drama like this. Suspect exposing our colonial past is more important though and showing women being abused is part of this.
BIB - I agree this whole narrative is saying a lot about the beliefs of the writer.
And in most respects for the convicts, it was neatly summed up by the question "Are they sent here as punishment or for punishment?", meanwhile the soldiers are led partly by their sense of military duty, partly by self-preservation in extreme circumstances, partly by self-interest. And the Governor (non-military) is treading a fine line between the two parties, firm but fair.
I don't understand what you mean by 'Brit captors'. Everyone, convicts and soldiers, are British. I assume you're not British as we don't normally use the word 'Brit' to describe ourselves, that's normally a word Americans use.
I'm British. It's being written as the convicts being the 'future' Australians and the captors as the colonial masters.
But they're all British and therefore all colonials. They soldiers aren't "captors", it's a penal colony and therefore they need to keep law and order. Many of them will also be the ancestors of the 'future' Australians. The convicts had sentences to serve, and then they could go home or stay and make a future in Australia. They and their families weren't in penal servitude for all eternity.
Me too. I am still enjoying the series, but the storyline of Katherine falling in love with Ross, who is a thoroughly unpleasant person, not convincing at all. I mean how could she be so gullible in such a short space of time.
And I too am finding the 'shall we hang him or not theme' is getting a bit tedious.
Unlike Poldark, there is no mention of a series 2...wonder what the viewing figures are..
Around 2m on overnights, probably consolidates a bit higher.
I would expect a season 2 is quite likely.
Maybe not...series 2 of The Paradise was picking up well over 3m if I remember correctly and it was not renewed...
Paradise was bbc1, Banished is bbc2 so different expectations.
The figure for Thursday's overnight was 1.89 million, however it launched to 3.4m and has lost viewers each week. I am not sure of consolidated figures, it hasn't done as well as Wolf Hall though.
I wouldn't miss Banished if it's not renewed.
I do miss The Paradise even though series 2 was nowhere as good as series 1.
It's losing viewers week on week which doesn't surprise me. The one thing Banished has proved to me is that there is a drama to be written about this period. Are there any books written that are suitable for transfer to tv series. If a superb series like Tenko can be made then it could be done with this scenario.
As for the Catherine/Major Ross storyline. I thought last week that he would most likely get her sentence annulled via a deal with the Governor. This would be his way of getting her from Corporal McDonald. But no - she just fell in love in less than a week since he raped her and she attempted suicide!
Paradise was also BBC2 wasn't it?
Another series let down by the writing.
BBC1 against X Factor juggernaut.
Now a scene with Denise & John Moray like that on Thursday would have had a different reaction