Have you considered it's not about sexuality but actually saying something about someone when they have told people it's not the case? I know I'd be hurt and annoyed if people kept saying I'm something I'm not.
Examples of other labels that people may tell you 'none of your business':
Tom Daley Vegetarian - but is he really, I'm sure I saw him eating a burger and he doesn't look or sound like a vegetarian.
Tom Daley Lib Dem supporter - well he seems to me to be more Conservative, he's just got that look of a Tory about him.
You're just seeing one small view in all this, try opening your mind to other possibilities, it may not be homophobia you're seeing in action.
I agree with what you say here.
I think what people need to understand is if you're in his position, it's not just your neighbour, a family member or some people in a club asking or wondering, it's millions of people and that mustn't be a very nice thing. I think if I were his age of 18, and came across a forum like this, I'd be mortified and feel a bit powerless with what I could do about it.
So while I personally don't think he's gay, I can understand that if he were and he didn't tell people, it is because of reasons like that & so wouldn't hold it against him.
I also think it's not the g-word or being gay that is particularly a problem, end of the day if your brain and impulses are telling you you're aroused by a member of the same sex, most people going through that daily don't have a problem with that, like the fact your brain tells you what food you like etc it's natural...it's the perception of gay by others that people don't want to be.
So it's not 'not wanting to admit to being gay' it's more not wanting to admit to being effeminate, camp, soft natured, poofy...whatever the label most people want to give to gay people...in which case, even if you're gay and you're really not those things, then you aren't lying you, you aren't (that idea of) gay!
And that's what I find annoying about topics like this, and so many well meaning people who want to be tolerant don't realise they're basically thinking along the lines of all black people knowing each other or all Indian people liking curry, it's really limited thinking & it's not wonder many gay people don't want to be like that...they want to be...oh maybe individual, maybe 'human' :cool:
And if Tom ever did read this, good luck with your career and life sir, you've done so well so far, may it get better for you!
We should stop making 'coming out' a big deal. Society treating it as such a 'never mentioned taboo' that contributes towards it being so.
I'm swear his parents said in that documentary they did a few years ago when asked about grandkids they said something like 'From Tom? I wouldn't have thought so' or something along those lines.
If we see homosexuality as no worse than someone preferring vanilla to strawberry ice cream, then it isn't a problem speculating. The issue comes when people ring-fence it and make it off-limits while accept gossip and speculation about 'straight' sexual activities e.g 'I think he has a girlfriend', which was said on page one and nobody picked up on. Others were called 'perverts' for essentially saying the same thing.
We should stop making 'coming out' a big deal. Society treating it as such a 'never mentioned taboo' that contributes towards it being so.
I'm swear his parents said in that documentary they did a few years ago when asked about grandkids they said something like 'From Tom? I wouldn't have thought so' or something along those lines.
If we see homosexuality as no worse than someone preferring vanilla to strawberry ice cream, then it isn't a problem speculating. The issue comes when people ring-fence it and make it off-limits while accept gossip and speculation about 'straight' sexual activities e.g 'I think he has a girlfriend', which was said on page one and nobody picked up on. Others were called 'perverts' for essentially saying the same thing.
Well no, it wasn't the same thing at all, there were some highly suggestive posts (which seem to have been removed) rather than just asking a question.
As I previously said, DS is a mixed entertainment forum, the type of language you use on another forum may not be suitable for here because you're likely to upset someone. You have to be aware of your environment and act accordingly. If a straight guy posted in a thread saying highly suggestive things about a female celebrity some female members of this site would get upset and some may even call him a pervert.
I think what people need to understand is if you're in his position, it's not just your neighbour, a family member or some people in a club asking or wondering, it's millions of people and that mustn't be a very nice thing. I think if I were his age of 18, and came across a forum like this, I'd be mortified and feel a bit powerless with what I could do about it.
So while I personally don't think he's gay, I can understand that if he were and he didn't tell people, it is because of reasons like that & so wouldn't hold it against him.
I also think it's not the g-word or being gay that is particularly a problem, end of the day if your brain and impulses are telling you you're aroused by a member of the same sex, most people going through that daily don't have a problem with that, like the fact your brain tells you what food you like etc it's natural...it's the perception of gay by others that people don't want to be.
So it's not 'not wanting to admit to being gay' it's more not wanting to admit to being effeminate, camp, soft natured, poofy...whatever the label most people want to give to gay people...in which case, even if you're gay and you're really not those things, then you aren't lying you, you aren't (that idea of) gay!
And that's what I find annoying about topics like this, and so many well meaning people who want to be tolerant don't realise they're basically thinking along the lines of all black people knowing each other or all Indian people liking curry, it's really limited thinking & it's not wonder many gay people don't want to be like that...they want to be...oh maybe individual, maybe 'human' :cool:
And if Tom ever did read this, good luck with your career and life sir, you've done so well so far, may it get better for you!
I think that might be the case for people in the public eye, whether that be a zeleb or a sportsman such as Tom Daley (if he is even gay). For example, potential sponsorship deals for Tom would likely go out the window, just because he has a link to the homosexual lifestyle, which most of a company's target audience won't relate to. Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine that would be a problem. Generally though I do not think that is the main issue at all. Several men stay in the closet for various reasons, not simply because they don't want to be associated with the more stereotypical 'gay culture'. It's certainly an interesting point though.
Also I've been reading this topic on and off and frankly I find it hilarious how it has ended up with two extremes at loggerheads with one another. On the one hand there are claims of homophobia simply because some want to respect other people's privacy, yet on the other we have people lambasting others with words such as 'What right do you have to talk about others?' Erm...what? I can talk about whoever the **** I like. If Tom Daley does not want to read speculation about him being gay on the internet, all he needs to do is not type "Tom Daley Gay" into Google.
And just out of interest, where is this interview where Tom says he is straight? I don't think a link has been provided and I can't find one. Look at me, all nosey .
Have you considered it's not about sexuality but actually saying something about someone when they have told people it's not the case? I know I'd be hurt and annoyed if people kept saying I'm something I'm not.
Examples of other labels that people may tell you 'none of your business':
Tom Daley Vegetarian - but is he really, I'm sure I saw him eating a burger and he doesn't look or sound like a vegetarian.
Tom Daley Lib Dem supporter - well he seems to me to be more Conservative, he's just got that look of a Tory about him.
You're just seeing one small view in all this, try opening your mind to other possibilities, it may not be homophobia you're seeing in action.
I think that explains one way of looking at it really well and very much agree. I kind of get where BomoLad is coming from, too, in terms of people making a bigger deal out of homosexuality rather than than heterosexuality and if sexual orientation was equally regarded, that wouldn't be happening. However, I think you're right about context. Change takes time and it's only a few decades back that homosexual activity was illegal. Although we've come a long way since then, attitude shifts take time. Some of the assumptions we make are perhaps part of that process and still evolving, so people might hold some inherent assumptions without intending to be directly homophobic- opinions can be shaped by the social discourses of the day. Hopefully, in a few year's time, we'll have progressed a bit further.
I think that explains one way of looking at it really well and very much agree. I kind of get where BomoLad is coming from, too, in terms of people making a bigger deal out of homosexuality rather than than heterosexuality and if sexual orientation was equally regarded, that wouldn't be happening. However, I think you're right about context. Change takes time and it's only a few decades back that homosexual activity was illegal. Although we've come a long way since then, attitude shifts take time. Some of the assumptions we make are perhaps part of that process and still evolving, so people might hold some inherent assumptions without intending to be directly homophobic- opinions can be shaped by the social discourses of the day. Hopefully, in a few year's time, we'll have progressed a bit further.
Hopefully in a few year's time, people won't be questioning threads like this and just accept that the discussion of homosexuality is normal and nothing anyone should feel ashamed with.
it's not about sexuality but actually saying something about someone when they have told people it's not the case?
It's more basic than that. It's simply about respecting a persons privacy. Some gay people don't want to be open about their relationships, that is respected; other times there is an assumption that the subject is a sensitive one. From my experience it works both ways as well. You can have a whole crowd of people and everyone knows that one person/couple in their presence is gay. The gay person/ couple go to great lengths to avoid any acknowledgement of their gayness being made. Uneccessary, but you have to respect their privacy. (Well, that's the etiquette, anyway). Homophobia doesn't come into it.
Where is the line drawn between speculating about a famous persons sexuality and making accusations towards them? In the case of Tom Daley there is a strong undercurrent of accusation. It is a question of the the right to privacy versus the right to free speech. If it's OK to 'speculate' on the internet is it ok to 'speculate' about someones sexuality in the newspapers? Or is the right to privacy of an individual more important?
It's posts like this that people get wound up about. What right do you have to assume he's gay? He might be, but unless you can get into his brain and bedroom you have no right to make an assumption about someone. Also if he is gay, why does he have to announce it to the world? Hetro people don't announce that they are straight in the papers.
Darling man I said if. I didn't assume anything. I don't know if he is or not.
It's more basic than that. It's simply about respecting a persons privacy. Some gay people don't want to be open about their relationships, that is respected; other times there is an assumption that the subject is a sensitive one. From my experience it works both ways as well. You can have a whole crowd of people and everyone knows that one person/couple in their presence is gay. The gay person/ couple go to great lengths to avoid any acknowledgement of their gayness being made. Uneccessary, but you have to respect their privacy. (Well, that's the etiquette, anyway). Homophobia doesn't come into it.
Where is the line drawn between speculating about a famous persons sexuality and making accusations towards them? In the case of Tom Daley there is a strong undercurrent of accusation. It is a question of the the right to privacy versus the right to free speech. If it's OK to 'speculate' on the internet is it ok to 'speculate' about someones sexuality in the newspapers? Or is the right to privacy of an individual more important?
People have speculated and gossiped about others since the dawn of time. The only difference is we have the means to do it globally within seconds. That we have to accept.
I just thought I'd mention that I heard Tom being interviewed on The Chris Moyles show on R1 a couple of months or so ago. Aled, the show's producer is gay and was a big fan of the spoof 'Sexy and I know It' LMFAO video the UK diving team had made (because of the fit half naked guys involved in it) which they'd been teasing him about, and so Chris asked Tom whether any of the team were gay. He said no, but that there were members of some other national teams who are, and I think Aled then named one of these people.
They spoke about the whole subject for a good few minutes and Tom seemed very relaxed with it all. And that's all I have to contribute to this discussion really, I just thought it was worth mentioning. This is the video in question. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bws52wtv6Ts
People have speculated and gossiped about others since the dawn of time. The only difference is we have the means to do it globally within seconds. That we have to accept.
Yeah, I know they have wallster. There's a thread on here doing just that with 1.3 million views or something. I don't think anyone's ever complained about it either.
I just thought I'd mention that I heard Tom being interviewed on The Chris Moyles show on R1 a couple of months or so ago. Aled, the show's producer is gay and was a big fan of the spoof 'Sexy and I know It' LMFAO video the UK diving team had made (because of the fit half naked guys involved in it) which they'd been teasing him about, and so Chris asked Tom whether any of the team were gay. He said no, but that there were members of some other national teams who are, and I think Aled then named one of these people.
They spoke about the whole subject for a good few minutes and Tom seemed very relaxed with it all. And that's all I have to contribute to this discussion really, I just thought it was worth mentioning. This is the video in question. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bws52wtv6Ts
The Australian diver Matthew Mitcham is openly gay so it might have been him that was mentioned.
Comments
What a load of nonsense! Stop making presumptions and if you do, don't blame that on anyone else than yourself.
I agree with what you say here.
I think what people need to understand is if you're in his position, it's not just your neighbour, a family member or some people in a club asking or wondering, it's millions of people and that mustn't be a very nice thing. I think if I were his age of 18, and came across a forum like this, I'd be mortified and feel a bit powerless with what I could do about it.
So while I personally don't think he's gay, I can understand that if he were and he didn't tell people, it is because of reasons like that & so wouldn't hold it against him.
I also think it's not the g-word or being gay that is particularly a problem, end of the day if your brain and impulses are telling you you're aroused by a member of the same sex, most people going through that daily don't have a problem with that, like the fact your brain tells you what food you like etc it's natural...it's the perception of gay by others that people don't want to be.
So it's not 'not wanting to admit to being gay' it's more not wanting to admit to being effeminate, camp, soft natured, poofy...whatever the label most people want to give to gay people...in which case, even if you're gay and you're really not those things, then you aren't lying you, you aren't (that idea of) gay!
And that's what I find annoying about topics like this, and so many well meaning people who want to be tolerant don't realise they're basically thinking along the lines of all black people knowing each other or all Indian people liking curry, it's really limited thinking & it's not wonder many gay people don't want to be like that...they want to be...oh maybe individual, maybe 'human' :cool:
And if Tom ever did read this, good luck with your career and life sir, you've done so well so far, may it get better for you!
Well, I disagree.
I'm swear his parents said in that documentary they did a few years ago when asked about grandkids they said something like 'From Tom? I wouldn't have thought so' or something along those lines.
If we see homosexuality as no worse than someone preferring vanilla to strawberry ice cream, then it isn't a problem speculating. The issue comes when people ring-fence it and make it off-limits while accept gossip and speculation about 'straight' sexual activities e.g 'I think he has a girlfriend', which was said on page one and nobody picked up on. Others were called 'perverts' for essentially saying the same thing.
I agree with you. I think unless someone is very camp or butch then most people, rightly or wrongly, assume they are straight.
Bomolad- I remember Tom's dad saying he can't wait to be a grandparent.
Well no, it wasn't the same thing at all, there were some highly suggestive posts (which seem to have been removed) rather than just asking a question.
As I previously said, DS is a mixed entertainment forum, the type of language you use on another forum may not be suitable for here because you're likely to upset someone. You have to be aware of your environment and act accordingly. If a straight guy posted in a thread saying highly suggestive things about a female celebrity some female members of this site would get upset and some may even call him a pervert.
I said reckon, not that I know, so :rolleyes: right back at you.
HA Tommy Cruise is 84% gay on that website:p;)
I think that might be the case for people in the public eye, whether that be a zeleb or a sportsman such as Tom Daley (if he is even gay). For example, potential sponsorship deals for Tom would likely go out the window, just because he has a link to the homosexual lifestyle, which most of a company's target audience won't relate to. Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine that would be a problem. Generally though I do not think that is the main issue at all. Several men stay in the closet for various reasons, not simply because they don't want to be associated with the more stereotypical 'gay culture'. It's certainly an interesting point though.
Also I've been reading this topic on and off and frankly I find it hilarious how it has ended up with two extremes at loggerheads with one another. On the one hand there are claims of homophobia simply because some want to respect other people's privacy, yet on the other we have people lambasting others with words such as 'What right do you have to talk about others?' Erm...what? I can talk about whoever the **** I like. If Tom Daley does not want to read speculation about him being gay on the internet, all he needs to do is not type "Tom Daley Gay" into Google.
And just out of interest, where is this interview where Tom says he is straight? I don't think a link has been provided and I can't find one. Look at me, all nosey
I think that explains one way of looking at it really well and very much agree. I kind of get where BomoLad is coming from, too, in terms of people making a bigger deal out of homosexuality rather than than heterosexuality and if sexual orientation was equally regarded, that wouldn't be happening. However, I think you're right about context. Change takes time and it's only a few decades back that homosexual activity was illegal. Although we've come a long way since then, attitude shifts take time. Some of the assumptions we make are perhaps part of that process and still evolving, so people might hold some inherent assumptions without intending to be directly homophobic- opinions can be shaped by the social discourses of the day. Hopefully, in a few year's time, we'll have progressed a bit further.
Hopefully in a few year's time, people won't be questioning threads like this and just accept that the discussion of homosexuality is normal and nothing anyone should feel ashamed with.
It's more basic than that. It's simply about respecting a persons privacy. Some gay people don't want to be open about their relationships, that is respected; other times there is an assumption that the subject is a sensitive one. From my experience it works both ways as well. You can have a whole crowd of people and everyone knows that one person/couple in their presence is gay. The gay person/ couple go to great lengths to avoid any acknowledgement of their gayness being made. Uneccessary, but you have to respect their privacy. (Well, that's the etiquette, anyway). Homophobia doesn't come into it.
Where is the line drawn between speculating about a famous persons sexuality and making accusations towards them? In the case of Tom Daley there is a strong undercurrent of accusation. It is a question of the the right to privacy versus the right to free speech. If it's OK to 'speculate' on the internet is it ok to 'speculate' about someones sexuality in the newspapers? Or is the right to privacy of an individual more important?
Darling man I said if. I didn't assume anything. I don't know if he is or not.
Not as in speech impediment, but the manner that some omy-polomes exxxxxxxxxssssssssssssssstend their ssssssyllablesssszzz, darlink!
In the fifties it would be named 'sibilant'.
see? Its alllllll about the sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
A perfect example of this is The Jungle Book, where Mowgli is entisssssssssssed by the sssssssssssssnake.
People have speculated and gossiped about others since the dawn of time. The only difference is we have the means to do it globally within seconds. That we have to accept.
They spoke about the whole subject for a good few minutes and Tom seemed very relaxed with it all. And that's all I have to contribute to this discussion really, I just thought it was worth mentioning. This is the video in question. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bws52wtv6Ts
Yeah, I know they have wallster. There's a thread on here doing just that with 1.3 million views or something. I don't think anyone's ever complained about it either.
The Australian diver Matthew Mitcham is openly gay so it might have been him that was mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Mitcham
He's well nice
I must remember to look out for him in the Olympics
:eek::D
http://diving.about.com/od/divingimagegalleries/ig/2010-Commonwealth-Games/Tom-Daley-and-Matthew-Mitcham.htm