How many salesmen do you know who can get warrants to enter your home? How many salesmen are required, by law, to caution you if they have reason to believe you have committed an offence? How many salesmen are selling you something that you could be prosecuted for not having? How many salesmen are sub contracted by the government to enforce a law? (The Communications Act 2003 orders the BBC to issue and administer the licence)
Their job may be to get you to pay for something, but to claim they are "just salesmen" is not true.If a police officer stops you because you have no road tax is he "just a salesman"?
They can't get warrants, they would have to go to court and prove you didn't have a license, difficult if you don't grant them access and unless you are a high court bailiff they have no right of access. Remember these are just civil debt collectors and have no legal rights. Just look at some youtube videos.
They are not sub contracted by the government but the BBC.
He's a civilian and a debt collector and has no rights. A police officer is warranted by acts of parliament and legal powers.
To be pedantic the BBC is in turn contracted by the government to administer the TV licence, as the Post Office used to be before the task was given to the BBC twenty years ago, and all the money goes to the government which keeps an admin fee and then gives it back to the BBC. So if you point out that the BBC sub contracts Capita you have to also point out the the Government sub contracts the BBC.
No they aren't. The communications act 2003 orders the BBC to collect the TV license.
How many salesmen do you know who can get warrants to enter your home? How many salesmen are required, by law, to caution you if they have reason to believe you have committed an offence? How many salesmen are selling you something that you could be prosecuted for not having? How many salesmen are sub contracted by the government to enforce a law? (The Communications Act 2003 orders the BBC to issue and administer the licence)
Their job may be to get you to pay for something, but to claim they are "just salesmen" is not true. If a police officer stops you because you have no road tax is he "just a salesman"?
Tv licence have no powers to force there way into your home even with a seach warrent, the polce attend when a search warrent is served BUT are only there to stop a preach of the peace and have themselves no power to force entry as the warrent was given to tv licence not the police.. I can put a video up to prove this if you like. Under no law does it say you have to have any dealings with tv licence, you dont have to talk to them or have any dealing with them in any way at all. If tv licence come to your door you dont have to open it to the them, No law broken, and even if you open the door there is nothing in law says you have have to talk to them tell them your name or anything at all, you are with in the law to say no thankyou and shut the door in thier face without telling them one thing. By law you can treat tv licence like any other door to door sales men,.
How many salesmen do you know who can get warrants to enter your home? How many salesmen are required, by law, to caution you if they have reason to believe you have committed an offence? How many salesmen are selling you something that you could be prosecuted for not having? How many salesmen are sub contracted by the government to enforce a law? (The Communications Act 2003 orders the BBC to issue and administer the licence)
Their job may be to get you to pay for something, but to claim they are "just salesmen" is not true. If a police officer stops you because you have no road tax is he "just a salesman"?
How many salesmen turn up in anti-stab vests?
How many salesmen shout obscene threats through your letterbox at 1030 pm?
How many salesmen kick your neighbours car in a fit of rage when you won't let them in?
How many salesmen send monthly letters threatening court action because you don't buy something you have no legal requirement to do so?
How many salesmen demand to enter your house and rummage through your personal possessions to see if you have one of their products?
TVL are in effect salesmen, however they use some extremely nasty tactics to try and bully people into getting TV licences when often one is not required. They massively overstate their authority (anti stab vests, RIPA etc) when in fact they have as much authority as the paperboy, or the person who sells Kleeneze products door to door.
How many salesmen do you know who can get warrants to enter your home? How many salesmen are required, by law, to caution you if they have reason to believe you have committed an offence? How many salesmen are selling you something that you could be prosecuted for not having? How many salesmen are sub contracted by the government to enforce a law? (The Communications Act 2003 orders the BBC to issue and administer the licence)
Their job may be to get you to pay for something, but to claim they are "just salesmen" is not true. If a police officer stops you because you have no road tax is he "just a salesman"?
A policemen is a law enforement and has legal powers in his everyday duty, a tv licence person has no legal powers, and are not classed in law, enforcement in any way. No law says you have to talk, inform tv licence of anything and you have the legal right not to talk to them or open the door to them or give them any information about you or your home or if you own a tv. They have no more powers than any other salemen knocking on your door. Tv licence people coming to your door are NOT law enforcement.
No they aren't. The communications act 2003 orders the BBC to collect the TV license.
Well yeah, isn't that the government ordering the BBC to collect the licence? Who do you think writes that legislation? Thank you for proving my point.
They can't get warrants, they would have to go to court and prove you didn't have a license, difficult if you don't grant them access and unless you are a high court bailiff they have no right of access. Remember these are just civil debt collectors and have no legal rights. Just look at some youtube videos.
They are not sub contracted by the government but the BBC.
He's a civilian and a debt collector and has no rights. A police officer is warranted by acts of parliament and legal powers.
If they had proof they wouldn't need a warrant, would they? Warrants are issued on reasonable suspecion in order to get evidence. Again, how many "salesmen" can go to a Magistrate and get a warrant?
How many salesmen shout obscene threats through your letterbox at 1030 pm?
How many salesmen kick your neighbours car in a fit of rage when you won't let them in?
How many salesmen send monthly letters threatening court action because you don't buy something you have no legal requirement to do so?
How many salesmen demand to enter your house and rummage through your personal possessions to see if you have one of their products?
TVL are in effect salesmen, however they use some extremely nasty tactics to try and bully people into getting TV licences when often one is not required. They massively overstate their authority (anti stab vests, RIPA etc) when in fact they have as much authority as the paperboy, or the person who sells Kleeneze products door to door.
There are isolated cases, just as there were for the fifty years the Post Office collected and enforced the TV licence (and radio licence before that) including the same letters, visits, prosecutions etc.
And who needs "authority" to wear a stab vest? And they are legally obliged to follow PACE, which is for your protection, not their benefit.
A policemen is a law enforement and has legal powers in his everyday duty, a tv licence person has no legal powers, and are not classed in law, enforcement in any way. No law says you have to talk, inform tv licence of anything and you have the legal right not to talk to them or open the door to them or give them any information about you or your home or if you own a tv. They have no more powers than any other salemen knocking on your door. Tv licence people coming to your door are NOT law enforcement.
The government seems to think otherwise. Why ele would magistrates listen to them and grant warrants? Why does the government order them to follow PACE?
I never said they were police or had the same powers,just that they were not " just salesmen"
The government seems to think otherwise. Why ele would magistrates listen to them and grant warrants? Why does the government order them to follow PACE?
I never said they were police or had the same powers,just that they were not " just salesmen"
So, again, how many "just salesmen" do the government require to follow PACE?
The DVLA will "sell" you road tax. That doesn't make them "just salesmen". Like TVL they are not "selling" you something, they are collecting a tax that you are legally required to pay if you watch live TV, and have access to powers of search and/or prosecution.
They are not "just salesmen".
And remember that nowhere have I ever claimed they have any police powers or that you must talk to them, in fact on this very board I have posted this excellent video several times that says you should never talk to the police, and I'd advide the OP and others that you may very well be advised to adopt the same policy to TVLA as well. (But if you have a licence or don't have a TV it might be simpler to cooperate, depending on your situation. They are after all trying to enforce the law on the order of Parliament, as others in this thread have proved.)
So, again, how many "just salesmen" do the government require to follow PACE?
The DVLA will "sell" you road tax. That doesn't make them "just salesmen". Like TVL they are not "selling" you something, they are collecting a tax that you are legally required to pay if you watch live TV, and have access to powers of search and/or prosecution.
They are not "just salesmen".
And remember that nowhere have I ever claimed they have any police powers or that you must talk to them, in fact on this very board I have posted this excellent video several times that says you should never talk to the police, and I'd advide the OP and others that you may very well be advised to adopt the same policy to TVLA as well. (But if you have a licence or don't have a TV it might be simpler to cooperate, depending on your situation. They are after all trying to enforce the law on the order of Parliament, as others in this thread have proved.)
The point is it is nothing to do with tv licence if i do or do not have a TV
The point is it is nothing to do with tv licence if i do or do not have a TV
If you have a TV and watch live broadcasts then you are breaking the law. And TVL, like it or not, are legally required by an act of parliament to administer, investigate and enforced that law. If it wasn't the BBC doing it it would be the Post Office, who used to do it the exact same way, or the government could contract Capita directly.
The government seems to think otherwise. Why ele would magistrates listen to them and grant warrants? Why does the government order them to follow PACE?
I never said they were police or had the same powers,just that they were not " just salesmen"
Courts these days will rubber stamp anything if a company goes crying to them aka tv licence, film studios, music studios etc.
If you have a TV and watch live broadcasts then you are breaking the law. And TVL, like it or not, are legally required by an act of parliament to administer, investigate and enforced that law. If it wasn't the BBC doing it it would be the Post Office, who used to do it the exact same way, or the government could contract Capita directly.
And still nothing to do with tv licence if i own a tv or not, and no legal requirement for me to tell them, no legal requirement for me to give them my name or any other information. No legal requirement for me to inform them on anything.
Courts these days will rubber stamp anything if a company goes crying to them aka tv licence, film studios, music studios etc.
Can you give an example of a court giving a search warrant to a commercial company? To actually let a private individual knock on your door with a warrant?
And still nothing to do with tv licence if i own a tv or not, and no legal requirement for me to tell them, no legal requirement for me to give them my name or any other information. No legal requirement for me to inform them on anything.
I never said otherwise. But all that doesn't change thefact that a TVL inspector/officer/agent/employee is not " just a salesperson". The government has contracted them to enforce the law.
Can you give an example of a court giving a search warrant to a commercial company? To actually let a private individual knock on your door with a warrant?
It was more a dig at isps more than anything.
Personally i'd invite tv licence in, offer them a cuppa and laugh as they discover i don't need a tv licence as i only watch on demand services and play my xbox.
I believe BBC should be subscription funded personally but that's just my opinion.
I never said otherwise. But all that doesn't change thefact that a TVL inspector/officer/agent/employee is not " just a salesperson". The government has contracted them to enforce the law.
And how is knocking on the door of someone house, and saying TV licence and the person says no thanks and closes the door, And that is the right of the general public and they have done nothing wrong, have not broken any laws. You would have thought that if the government wanted the tv licence to have real powers, they might have made it law that you must coperate and give them information, strange way to try enforce the law
It was more a dig at isps more than anything.
Personally i'd invite tv licence in, offer them a cuppa and laugh as they discover i don't need a tv licence as i only watch on demand services and play my xbox.
I believe BBC should be subscription funded personally but that's just my opinion.
Not as bad as the laws in the US. The maximum prison sentence for downloading a Michael Jackson song is longer than the sentence the doctor who killed him got!
And how is knocking on the door of someone house, and saying TV licence and the person says no thanks and closes the door, And that is the right of the general public and they have done nothing wrong, have not broken any laws. You would have thought that if the government wanted the tv licence to have real powers, they might have made it law that you must coperate and give them information, strange way to try enforce the law
It's worked for seventy odd years so why bother? Now with streaming, catchup, downloading etc the situation is far more complicated. I suspect that's why both Ireland and Germany have scrapped their TV licence and replaced it with a mandatory fee for every business and household, whether they have a TV or not. No question of what you are watching or if you own a TV and no need for letters, visits, warrants etc.
We already pay for lots of things irrespective of whether we use them or not so the TV licence wouldn't be any different. I pay for schools even if I have no children, libraries even if I don't use them, council sports centres even if I belong to a gym, the NHS even if I have BUPA and many more.
As a bonus we'd save several hundred million lost each year to evasion, collection costs, admin etc so the licence could be lower for the vast majority while still giving the BBC the same income, and including it with council tax would allow it to be priced in line with tax bands dealing with one of the biggest complaints, that it is a regressive tax.
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They can't get warrants, they would have to go to court and prove you didn't have a license, difficult if you don't grant them access and unless you are a high court bailiff they have no right of access. Remember these are just civil debt collectors and have no legal rights. Just look at some youtube videos.
They are not sub contracted by the government but the BBC.
He's a civilian and a debt collector and has no rights. A police officer is warranted by acts of parliament and legal powers.
No they aren't. The communications act 2003 orders the BBC to collect the TV license.
How many salesmen turn up in anti-stab vests?
How many salesmen shout obscene threats through your letterbox at 1030 pm?
How many salesmen kick your neighbours car in a fit of rage when you won't let them in?
How many salesmen send monthly letters threatening court action because you don't buy something you have no legal requirement to do so?
How many salesmen demand to enter your house and rummage through your personal possessions to see if you have one of their products?
TVL are in effect salesmen, however they use some extremely nasty tactics to try and bully people into getting TV licences when often one is not required. They massively overstate their authority (anti stab vests, RIPA etc) when in fact they have as much authority as the paperboy, or the person who sells Kleeneze products door to door.
A policemen is a law enforement and has legal powers in his everyday duty, a tv licence person has no legal powers, and are not classed in law, enforcement in any way. No law says you have to talk, inform tv licence of anything and you have the legal right not to talk to them or open the door to them or give them any information about you or your home or if you own a tv. They have no more powers than any other salemen knocking on your door. Tv licence people coming to your door are NOT law enforcement.
Well yeah, isn't that the government ordering the BBC to collect the licence? Who do you think writes that legislation? Thank you for proving my point.
If they had proof they wouldn't need a warrant, would they? Warrants are issued on reasonable suspecion in order to get evidence. Again, how many "salesmen" can go to a Magistrate and get a warrant?
There are isolated cases, just as there were for the fifty years the Post Office collected and enforced the TV licence (and radio licence before that) including the same letters, visits, prosecutions etc.
And who needs "authority" to wear a stab vest? And they are legally obliged to follow PACE, which is for your protection, not their benefit.
The government seems to think otherwise. Why ele would magistrates listen to them and grant warrants? Why does the government order them to follow PACE?
I never said they were police or had the same powers,just that they were not " just salesmen"
Yet capita themselves say they are, They use the term sales, selling the tv licence, the word sales is used 3 times. http://youtu.be/DI39WRiuxhg?list=PL9ToxN2JQmkI9ZFBQME3UhVE2KrRmpdHg. So someone who is selling you something is a sales person.
So, again, how many "just salesmen" do the government require to follow PACE?
The DVLA will "sell" you road tax. That doesn't make them "just salesmen". Like TVL they are not "selling" you something, they are collecting a tax that you are legally required to pay if you watch live TV, and have access to powers of search and/or prosecution.
They are not "just salesmen".
And remember that nowhere have I ever claimed they have any police powers or that you must talk to them, in fact on this very board I have posted this excellent video several times that says you should never talk to the police, and I'd advide the OP and others that you may very well be advised to adopt the same policy to TVLA as well. (But if you have a licence or don't have a TV it might be simpler to cooperate, depending on your situation. They are after all trying to enforce the law on the order of Parliament, as others in this thread have proved.)
They only rarely grant warrants to Capita for TVL purposes, and the tiny number that are granted are often because Capita lies to the court.
The point is it is nothing to do with tv licence if i do or do not have a TV
If you have a TV and watch live broadcasts then you are breaking the law. And TVL, like it or not, are legally required by an act of parliament to administer, investigate and enforced that law. If it wasn't the BBC doing it it would be the Post Office, who used to do it the exact same way, or the government could contract Capita directly.
Courts these days will rubber stamp anything if a company goes crying to them aka tv licence, film studios, music studios etc.
And still nothing to do with tv licence if i own a tv or not, and no legal requirement for me to tell them, no legal requirement for me to give them my name or any other information. No legal requirement for me to inform them on anything.
Can you give an example of a court giving a search warrant to a commercial company? To actually let a private individual knock on your door with a warrant?
I never said otherwise. But all that doesn't change thefact that a TVL inspector/officer/agent/employee is not " just a salesperson". The government has contracted them to enforce the law.
It was more a dig at isps more than anything.
Personally i'd invite tv licence in, offer them a cuppa and laugh as they discover i don't need a tv licence as i only watch on demand services and play my xbox.
I believe BBC should be subscription funded personally but that's just my opinion.
And how is knocking on the door of someone house, and saying TV licence and the person says no thanks and closes the door, And that is the right of the general public and they have done nothing wrong, have not broken any laws. You would have thought that if the government wanted the tv licence to have real powers, they might have made it law that you must coperate and give them information, strange way to try enforce the law
Not as bad as the laws in the US. The maximum prison sentence for downloading a Michael Jackson song is longer than the sentence the doctor who killed him got!
It's worked for seventy odd years so why bother? Now with streaming, catchup, downloading etc the situation is far more complicated. I suspect that's why both Ireland and Germany have scrapped their TV licence and replaced it with a mandatory fee for every business and household, whether they have a TV or not. No question of what you are watching or if you own a TV and no need for letters, visits, warrants etc.
We already pay for lots of things irrespective of whether we use them or not so the TV licence wouldn't be any different. I pay for schools even if I have no children, libraries even if I don't use them, council sports centres even if I belong to a gym, the NHS even if I have BUPA and many more.
As a bonus we'd save several hundred million lost each year to evasion, collection costs, admin etc so the licence could be lower for the vast majority while still giving the BBC the same income, and including it with council tax would allow it to be priced in line with tax bands dealing with one of the biggest complaints, that it is a regressive tax.