I don't think that's what she means. It's more a case of accepting that those sorts of people do exist.
I always believe that rape is the fault of the rapist, just as burglary is the fault of the burglar. But if you think it's common sense to lock your front door when you leave the house, then you can think it's common sense to wear sensible clothes (particularly shoes) if there is a chance you might be walking home alone at night. Just as most people know better than to wear obviously expensive jewellery on holiday, and don't make it too easy for pickpockets.
"This was all my doing and I take full responsibility" seems a little more strident than that, though...
She's taken responsibility to what happened to her and not let the emotion control her life, I respect her for that, a lot people need to take note of that I think.
But saying that women should not complain if they dress provocatively and then get sexually assaulted is wrong.
I don't think that's what she means. It's more a case of accepting that those sorts of people do exist.
I always believe that rape is the fault of the rapist, just as burglary is the fault of the burglar. But if you think it's common sense to lock your front door when you leave the house, then you can think it's common sense to wear sensible clothes (particularly shoes) if there is a chance you might be walking home alone at night. Just as most people know better than to wear obviously expensive jewellery on holiday, and don't make it too easy for pickpockets.
Not this old chestnut *rolls eyes*. Yes women are exactly like houses and jewellery and have lockable vaginas.
You think that sensible clothes will protect you walking home alone at night?
The majority of victims are raped in casual clothing. Equally the majority of victims are not raped by strangers, but acquaintances, partners and ex-partners.
If you read interviews with convicted sex offenders you would also discover that the main criteria the choice of victims had in common was perceived vulnerability, and that clothing didn't come into it.
She's taken responsibility to what happened to her and not let the emotion control her life, I respect her for that, a lot people need to take note of that I think.
But saying that women should not complain if they dress provocatively and then get sexually assaulted is wrong.
She has let an emotion rule: self-blame.
She's still blaming herself 40 years later.
It's not healthy and it's not objectively accurate.
If you read interviews with convicted sex offenders you would also discover that the main criteria the choice of victims had in common was perceived vulnerability, and that clothing didn't come into it.
Precisely. It's frankly an insult to men to if people suggest they are so backwards and base that if you show an extra inch of thigh they will decide that they want to rape you but wear that slightly longer skirt and they won't take a second look. It's just nonsense.
She is right and wrong.Women have the right to dress as the like. If we want to walk naked down a dark alley, steaming drunk and come out the other end unscathed that is our right. However at the end of the day people have a responsibility for their own safety and should give thought to that.
I'm not saying women deserve to be assaulted. Rape is more about power, pain and humiliation than sex. These are the issues that need to be tackled.
She's taken responsibility to what happened to her and not let the emotion control her life, I respect her for that, a lot people need to take note of that I think.
But saying that women should not complain if they dress provocatively and then get sexually assaulted is wrong.
Actually, I think she hasn't come to terms with it even now. I feel bad for her. Hopefully one day she'll get to the point where she realises, sometimes bad shit happens to you, without you being to blame.
I get the impression, and I may be wrong of course, that somehow, it's easier to understand, if she blames herself.
She's taken responsibility to what happened to her and not let the emotion control her life, I respect her for that, a lot people need to take note of that I think.
But saying that women should not complain if they dress provocatively and then get sexually assaulted is wrong.
All that happened was she was too trusting and made a mistake, the rape is not her responsibility at all. She's wrong to take full responsibility for that.
I am sure many will take out of context what she was saying.
At the end of the day no means no and rape is rape and the rapist is always to blame, in an ideal world a man or woman should be able to go out get drunk and crawl home naked if they so choose and do so safely. But it isn't an ideal world so dress as you please ( though to be quite honest a rapist will generally rape whatever you are wearing unless they have some kind of fixation on certain clothing) and drink what you want but take precautions, get home safely , make plans, use a taxi , and if you are so far gone that you really cannot think straight your friends should be keeping an eye on you and not taking no for an answer and make sure you get home safely.
Though we all know that someone does not have to be drunk and wandering alone at night to be raped it can happen at any time, but there are times when people do need to take that little bit more care of themselves to guard against others.
I am sure many will take out of context what she was saying.
At the end of the day no means no and rape is rape and the rapist is always to blame, in an ideal world a man or woman should be able to go out get drunk and crawl home naked if they so choose and do so safely. But it isn't an ideal world so dress as you please ( though to be quite honest a rapist will generally rape whatever you are wearing unless they have some kind of fixation on certain clothing) and drink what you want but take precautions, get home safely , make plans, use a taxi , and if you are so far gone that you really cannot think straight your friends should be keeping an eye on you and not taking no for an answer and make sure you get home safely.
Well that's the problem isn't it? Those rapists were always going to rape, regardless of whatever Chrissie did. Therefore, in reality, she isn't to blame..
Well that's the problem isn't it? Those rapists were always going to rape, regardless of whatever Chrissie did. Therefore, in reality, she isn't to blame..
I agree she wasn't to blame the blame always lies with the rapist.
I am sure many will take out of context what she was saying.
At the end of the day no means no and rape is rape and the rapist is always to blame, in an ideal world a man or woman should be able to go out get drunk and crawl home naked if they so choose and do so safely. But it isn't an ideal world so dress as you please ( though to be quite honest a rapist will generally rape whatever you are wearing unless they have some kind of fixation on certain clothing) and drink what you want but take precautions, get home safely , make plans, use a taxi , and if you are so far gone that you really cannot think straight your friends should be keeping an eye on you and not taking no for an answer and make sure you get home safely.
Though we all know that someone does not have to be drunk and wandering alone at night to be raped it can happen at any time, but there are times when people do need to take that little bit more care of themselves to guard against others.
I agree entirely.
I was mugged last year by three guys in an area that is notoriously bad for it. I reported it to the police and the officer who was dealing with me said that the area is a problem, they know it is a problem and are trying to sort it out but, whilst I shouldn't have to modify my behaviour to feel safe, but to be on the safe side it's probably best that I don't walk through that area any more.
I don't see that as victim blaming, just common sense. In the same way we shouldn't have to lock our doors to keep criminals out but we do it.
It seems to me some kind of coping mechanism for her. To be able to cope and try and forget what happened to her, she has exonerated these men, and made herself guilty.
It seems to me some kind of coping mechanism for her. To be able to cope and try and forget what happened to her, she has exonerated these men, and made herself guilty.
thats fine if thats how she deals with it but she could leave off making other raped females feel guilty.
I was mugged last year by three guys in an area that is notoriously bad for it. I reported it to the police and the officer who was dealing with me said that the area is a problem, they know it is a problem and are trying to sort it out but, whilst I shouldn't have to modify my behaviour to feel safe, but to be on the safe side it's probably best that I don't walk through that area any more.
I don't see that as victim blaming, just common sense. In the same way we shouldn't have to lock our doors to keep criminals out but we do it.
I used to live in an area where the police stopped entering for a while.
It was full of violent drug dealers, who pretty much did whatever they wanted.
I sometimes got hassled on the way to school.
I went to the police, they told me they didn't even respond to the area any more, so perhaps I shouldn't go there either.
What was I supposed to do, move?
I just wanted to get to school without being hassled.
I couldn't and didn't want to modify my behaviour. I didn't have a choice to be honest.
You shouldn't have to modify your behaviour either, just because some douchebags can't behave themselves.
It seems to me some kind of coping mechanism for her. To be able to cope and try and forget what happened to her, she has exonerated these men, and made herself guilty.
I was mugged last year by three guys in an area that is notoriously bad for it. I reported it to the police and the officer who was dealing with me said that the area is a problem, they know it is a problem and are trying to sort it out but, whilst I shouldn't have to modify my behaviour to feel safe, but to be on the safe side it's probably best that I don't walk through that area any more.
The thing is, there's a difference between saying that to make it less likely you will be mugged, you should avoid an area that is rife with it and saying you walked down there so you have full responsibility for it happening, which is more what she is seems to be stating.
I find it incredibly sad that she feels this way:
"Now let me assure you that, technically speaking, however you want to look at it, this was all my doing and I take full responsibility.
It was in no way her doing and she has no responsibility for it at all. She took a risk and was trusting of people she shouldn't have trusted, the fact that these people then raped her is entirely their responsibility not hers.
As someone who was sexually assaulted about 10 years ago, it took me a long time to realise that it was in no way my fault. I think sometimes it can feel easier for victims to take responsibility for it as a way of finding peace, because that is more straight forward than coming to terms with the fact that someone out there just wanted to hurt you. But it isn't right and is self destructive. The fact that 42 years later Chrissie still feels that it was her fault is awful and I'd imagine a big weight to carry round all those years.
Also, we live in a society where dressing sexually is becoming the norm. The media is full of sexual imagery and a LOT of teenage girls are dressing like they are going to a pole dancing class. This is normal behaviour now. The girls and young women can't win. Everything is judged on social media, ie, Facebook and Instagram. Much of these girls' self worth comes from the number of likes they can get. So on one hand, if you've got it, flaunt it but if you attract unwanted attention well what did you expect? It's a minefield. But as previous posters have said, it really has nothing to do with the way they are dressed.
Regardless of what she said let's not fall into the trap of thinking that the majority of rapes involve drunk, scantily clad women and strangers on a night out. More girls and women are raped by partners, ex-partners, family members, work colleagues and friends than the shady stranger outside the club.
The part where she says she takes full responsibilty for it happening seems to let the gang off the hook. That surely grates for you doesn't it?
My interpretation was that she takes responsibility for her actions, and it probably helps her to cope. It doesn't mean she doesn't think what other people did was OK. If I thought she was saying they were all totally innocent, then you'd have a point, but that wasn't my interpretation.
It grates more that people get raped, then other people get judgemental for how they cope with it.
Not this old chestnut *rolls eyes*. Yes women are exactly like houses and jewellery and have lockable vaginas.
If you go looking for that interpretation, then that's what you'll see. Not what was said, nor intended. But don't let that get in the way of your agenda.
You think that sensible clothes will protect you walking home alone at night?
The majority of victims are raped in casual clothing. Equally the majority of victims are not raped by strangers, but acquaintances, partners and ex-partners.
If you read interviews with convicted sex offenders you would also discover that the main criteria the choice of victims had in common was perceived vulnerability, and that clothing didn't come into it.
Well, I don't know about you, but I feel a lot less vulnerable if I'm wearing a pair of Doc Martin boots than if I'm wearing heels I can barely walk in. I didn't say they made me invincible, any more than I think locking your front door prevents all burglaries. But are you saying that theft is OK because it's not rape? How dare you belittle the feelings of people who have been burgled etc etc. ;-)
As I was specifically talking about walking home alone at night, then I'm clearly not talking about avoiding rape by a family member, but again, if you are determined to get on your high horse, there's not a lot I can do about it. You'll find your reading comprehension fails at that altitude, but you seem to enjoy the view.;-)
It reminds me of when the iCloud was hacked, and people had naked photos published against their will. Clearly, the people in the wrong were the hackers, but I know of a university that decided to use a high profile news event to remind their students to use secure passwords. They were accused of 'victim blaming', because it seems suggesting people keep their personal information in a secure way means you think anyone who doesn't deserves it.
It's so tedious, and really not helping anyone to get so picky, and presume any action by a potential victim to avoid becoming a victim means we think the perpetrator is not at fault. And it's plain irrational to think that it's sensible to take precautions against theft, or having your bank details stolen, but anti-women to take precautions against rape or having your naked photos stolen. I'd roll my eyes, but the reality is that it's sad, and fails a lot of women.
All that happened was she was too trusting and made a mistake, the rape is not her responsibility at all. She's wrong to take full responsibility for that.
I know what you mean.
But I like this quote.
"A wise woman wishes to be no one's enemy; a wise woman refuses to be anyone's victim"
Nuns , children and old women get raped. Chrissie is sending out a dangerous message to men..
Men are actually more likely to be a victim of a violent crime.
The point is while we would like a lovely world where everyone is nice and there is no crime there are some bad people about. So minimise your chances of being a victim by not walking around dodgy areas late at night on your own particularly if you are drunk. That's a message that applies to everyone male and female.
"A wise woman wishes to be no one's enemy; a wise woman refuses to be anyone's victim"
I would agree with that. If you were standing at a bus stop late at night and a car drew up with three men offering you a lift, common sense dictates not getting in. You have every right to get in a car expecting a lift home and nothing else but that is not the reality of the world.
Comments
"This was all my doing and I take full responsibility" seems a little more strident than that, though...
But saying that women should not complain if they dress provocatively and then get sexually assaulted is wrong.
Not this old chestnut *rolls eyes*. Yes women are exactly like houses and jewellery and have lockable vaginas.
You think that sensible clothes will protect you walking home alone at night?
The majority of victims are raped in casual clothing. Equally the majority of victims are not raped by strangers, but acquaintances, partners and ex-partners.
If you read interviews with convicted sex offenders you would also discover that the main criteria the choice of victims had in common was perceived vulnerability, and that clothing didn't come into it.
She has let an emotion rule: self-blame.
She's still blaming herself 40 years later.
It's not healthy and it's not objectively accurate.
Precisely. It's frankly an insult to men to if people suggest they are so backwards and base that if you show an extra inch of thigh they will decide that they want to rape you but wear that slightly longer skirt and they won't take a second look. It's just nonsense.
I'm not saying women deserve to be assaulted. Rape is more about power, pain and humiliation than sex. These are the issues that need to be tackled.
Actually, I think she hasn't come to terms with it even now. I feel bad for her. Hopefully one day she'll get to the point where she realises, sometimes bad shit happens to you, without you being to blame.
I get the impression, and I may be wrong of course, that somehow, it's easier to understand, if she blames herself.
I know how that is. I did the same for a while...
All that happened was she was too trusting and made a mistake, the rape is not her responsibility at all. She's wrong to take full responsibility for that.
At the end of the day no means no and rape is rape and the rapist is always to blame, in an ideal world a man or woman should be able to go out get drunk and crawl home naked if they so choose and do so safely. But it isn't an ideal world so dress as you please ( though to be quite honest a rapist will generally rape whatever you are wearing unless they have some kind of fixation on certain clothing) and drink what you want but take precautions, get home safely , make plans, use a taxi , and if you are so far gone that you really cannot think straight your friends should be keeping an eye on you and not taking no for an answer and make sure you get home safely.
Though we all know that someone does not have to be drunk and wandering alone at night to be raped it can happen at any time, but there are times when people do need to take that little bit more care of themselves to guard against others.
Well that's the problem isn't it? Those rapists were always going to rape, regardless of whatever Chrissie did. Therefore, in reality, she isn't to blame..
I agree she wasn't to blame the blame always lies with the rapist.
Sorry, I'd didn't construct my post particularly well.
It's Chrissie herself who thinks she's to blame.
I don't think you think that.
I agree entirely.
I was mugged last year by three guys in an area that is notoriously bad for it. I reported it to the police and the officer who was dealing with me said that the area is a problem, they know it is a problem and are trying to sort it out but, whilst I shouldn't have to modify my behaviour to feel safe, but to be on the safe side it's probably best that I don't walk through that area any more.
I don't see that as victim blaming, just common sense. In the same way we shouldn't have to lock our doors to keep criminals out but we do it.
I used to live in an area where the police stopped entering for a while.
It was full of violent drug dealers, who pretty much did whatever they wanted.
I sometimes got hassled on the way to school.
I went to the police, they told me they didn't even respond to the area any more, so perhaps I shouldn't go there either.
What was I supposed to do, move?
I just wanted to get to school without being hassled.
I couldn't and didn't want to modify my behaviour. I didn't have a choice to be honest.
You shouldn't have to modify your behaviour either, just because some douchebags can't behave themselves.
That's what I thought too..
The thing is, there's a difference between saying that to make it less likely you will be mugged, you should avoid an area that is rife with it and saying you walked down there so you have full responsibility for it happening, which is more what she is seems to be stating.
I find it incredibly sad that she feels this way:
It was in no way her doing and she has no responsibility for it at all. She took a risk and was trusting of people she shouldn't have trusted, the fact that these people then raped her is entirely their responsibility not hers.
As someone who was sexually assaulted about 10 years ago, it took me a long time to realise that it was in no way my fault. I think sometimes it can feel easier for victims to take responsibility for it as a way of finding peace, because that is more straight forward than coming to terms with the fact that someone out there just wanted to hurt you. But it isn't right and is self destructive. The fact that 42 years later Chrissie still feels that it was her fault is awful and I'd imagine a big weight to carry round all those years.
You shouldn't have to, nobody should, but we don't live in that world. We all have to do something that makes our lives safer in some way
Good point.
My interpretation was that she takes responsibility for her actions, and it probably helps her to cope. It doesn't mean she doesn't think what other people did was OK. If I thought she was saying they were all totally innocent, then you'd have a point, but that wasn't my interpretation.
It grates more that people get raped, then other people get judgemental for how they cope with it.
If you go looking for that interpretation, then that's what you'll see. Not what was said, nor intended. But don't let that get in the way of your agenda.
Well, I don't know about you, but I feel a lot less vulnerable if I'm wearing a pair of Doc Martin boots than if I'm wearing heels I can barely walk in. I didn't say they made me invincible, any more than I think locking your front door prevents all burglaries. But are you saying that theft is OK because it's not rape? How dare you belittle the feelings of people who have been burgled etc etc. ;-)
As I was specifically talking about walking home alone at night, then I'm clearly not talking about avoiding rape by a family member, but again, if you are determined to get on your high horse, there's not a lot I can do about it. You'll find your reading comprehension fails at that altitude, but you seem to enjoy the view.;-)
It reminds me of when the iCloud was hacked, and people had naked photos published against their will. Clearly, the people in the wrong were the hackers, but I know of a university that decided to use a high profile news event to remind their students to use secure passwords. They were accused of 'victim blaming', because it seems suggesting people keep their personal information in a secure way means you think anyone who doesn't deserves it.
It's so tedious, and really not helping anyone to get so picky, and presume any action by a potential victim to avoid becoming a victim means we think the perpetrator is not at fault. And it's plain irrational to think that it's sensible to take precautions against theft, or having your bank details stolen, but anti-women to take precautions against rape or having your naked photos stolen. I'd roll my eyes, but the reality is that it's sad, and fails a lot of women.
I know what you mean.
But I like this quote.
"A wise woman wishes to be no one's enemy; a wise woman refuses to be anyone's victim"
Men are actually more likely to be a victim of a violent crime.
The point is while we would like a lovely world where everyone is nice and there is no crime there are some bad people about. So minimise your chances of being a victim by not walking around dodgy areas late at night on your own particularly if you are drunk. That's a message that applies to everyone male and female.
I would agree with that. If you were standing at a bus stop late at night and a car drew up with three men offering you a lift, common sense dictates not getting in. You have every right to get in a car expecting a lift home and nothing else but that is not the reality of the world.