I'm not sure that is accurate, Bookfan2. I don't believe Louisa said she didn't like London in College. I think she both had a good time in London at College; there's inferences she partied, etc. I think perhaps that's one reason she went back there, as she knew the city and had enjoyed going to College there.
Twenty years later, and finding herself pregnant, and alone, and no Isobel, no Holly, and getting dispproving looks from her school administration, it was a much different experience for her.
I don't know where I heard she didn't like London (fan fiction?), but certainly she didn't like it enough to stay after college. But even before she knows of Martin's intention to return to London, she has already declared she didn't like it. She had no interest in going to London with Danny. So for whatever reason, Louisa prefers Portwenn.
Should she move to London if that is Martin's preference, personally and professionally?
I was just trying to figure out what is fair for them both.
I think the only reason Martin ever wanted to go to London in the first place was because Louisa was gone. Even though he still had AJ in Portwenn, the only thing that made him happy about being in this town was because every day he might get a glimpse of Louisa. With Louisa gone, there was nothing left for him.
But when Louisa appeared he had already set the ball rolling. I think if Louisa had given him a sign that she wanted him in her life he would have put a stop to the process. And if Edith had not been sitting in his kitchen when Louisa arrived at the back door, some of that might have happened. But it didn't, and Louisa was very adamant that she didn't want him involved. So he just let things keep rolling and, as Portwenn59 said tonight, he didn't seem all that pleased when it finally did happen. But he is also one to honor his commitments, so even after the birth of his son he felt the need to go, but now wanted Louisa and James to go with him.
Also, during the much discussed scene at the back door, when Louisa mentions the word "London", did anyone else notice that she glances to her left, almost looking to make sure that Edith isn't sitting at the table like she was several times in S4? Hmmmm.....
I have to disagree with this. From the get go, Martin was in exile in Port Wenn. Yes, he had his Aunt Joan, but I think every single day Martin wished he was over his hemophobia and could return to the city and being a surgeon.
He hates Port Wenn and most of the inhabitants; pretty much always has. He is there because he has to be, and as such, is the best doc he can be to the villagers. The fact that he fell in love with Louisa complicates things, but in my mind, I would imagine that DM would see himself back in London as a surgeon, living with Louisa there.
I don't know where I heard she didn't like London (fan fiction?), but certainly she didn't like it enough to stay after college. But even before she knows of Martin's intention to return to London, she has already declared she didn't like it. She had no interest in going to London with Danny. So for whatever reason, Louisa prefers Portwenn.
Should she move to London if that is Martin's preference, personally and professionally?
I was just trying to figure out what is fair for them both.
Well, she didn't want to be with Danny, so that's one thing.
LG has a complicated relationship to Port Wenn. She was raised there and feels on one level, I think, safest there.
Change is not something either LG or DM like or welcome, in life, or in themselves. Neither are very good at it. LG likes Port Wenn because she has a good job (her self-identity), and has her habits, her stores, her friends, the same paths she has walked for nearly 40 years.
When LG has been surprised, and change has happened, it hasn't been good--her mother left, her father was completely unreliable so many times, and no doubt neglectful. Port Wenn the town itself has been the most stable "thing" in her life and she depends on that.
My point of view, yes, she should move to London, where Martin can go back to surgery and she can get another job teaching. We've discussed that her job is much more mobile than Heads of Vascular Departments at hospitals.
HOWEVER, DM would have to agree to not put his job solely first, and commit to spending time with her and James, and be willing to socialize with others as couples to help her make friends. He would also have to be okay with her getting a teaching job and JH having two working parents. They would both need to make big changes in their attitudes and their lives to succeed in London.
There was a discussion about the finch in the window during S5. I looked up the symbolism of the finch which briefly states: When finches come into our awareness it is a sure sign of ebullient times ahead. Finches are a sparkly omen of high energy and bright days on the horizon. Finches are never satisfied to just go from point A to point B. They seem to boogie from place to place. Now, as to the dream sequence at the beginning of the series in which DM talks to LG about the finch landing on his finger-- and afterwards the earth opens up between them, then never again was there a mention or sign of a finch until S5. Are the writers and/or prop people winding us up once again as we discover the finch being mentioned or used in this series? Anybody care to analyze that dream sequence LG had?
I don't know where I heard she didn't like London (fan fiction?), but certainly she didn't like it enough to stay after college. But even before she knows of Martin's intention to return to London, she has already declared she didn't like it. She had no interest in going to London with Danny. So for whatever reason, Louisa prefers Portwenn.
Should she move to London if that is Martin's preference, personally and professionally?
I was just trying to figure out what is fair for them both.
In the S4 scene on the porch after LG showed up pregnant, she did tell DM she didn't like London. Back in S3 when Holly asked her if she missed London, LG implied that she didn't. She said she sometimes missed college but that was a long time ago. And in S5 when DM and AR discuss the upcoming move to London, AR suggests that LG doesn't (or won't) like London, and DM agrees. I need to re-watch the scene, but doesn't AR say something like, "I don't imagine she likes it," and DM responds, "No."
As for the question about whether LG should move to London to make DM happy, I tend to waver on that. Maybe it depends on my mood. For one thing, it's been pointed out that LG's career is more "portable". She could be a teacher or headmistress in London or PW. DM, on the other hand, can't be a surgeon in PW. But there's also the fact that PW is a kind of security blanket for LG. Her attachment to the village is embedded. It's a big part of who she is. It's about more than career for LG.
They've set up a situation where there doesn't appear to be a win-win option. One of them is going to lose something that's extremely important. How do you decide who wins and who loses? In the S5 finale, DM says he'll be the one to make the sacrifice. Since there has to be a conflict in each series, I have a feeling that in S6 this could be it. There are several options for how it gets resolved, the obvious London resolution, or the PW resolution, the DM & LG go their separate ways resolution (ick!), or even a compromise. Surely the hospital in Truro needs surgeons, right? It's only about 40 miles from PW. Depending on where that brilliant white flat in London is located, DM could have a commute there that takes as long as a daily drive from PW to Truro. Could be that this solution isn't dramatic enough for the storyline, or that these two aren't capable of compromising.
I do expect that all of S6 will be set in PW. If London or Truro hops into the picture and there's a change, it will be part of the dramatic conclusion. Just my two cents.
In the S4 scene on the porch after LG showed up pregnant, she did tell DM she didn't like London. Back in S3 when Holly asked her if she missed London, LG implied that she didn't. She said she sometimes missed college but that was a long time ago. And in S5 when DM and AR discuss the upcoming move to London, AR suggests that LG doesn't (or won't) like London, and DM agrees. I need to re-watch the scene, but doesn't AR say something like, "I don't imagine she likes it," and DM responds, "No."
As for the question about whether LG should move to London to make DM happy, I tend to waver on that. Maybe it depends on my mood. For one thing, it's been pointed out that LG's career is more "portable". She could be a teacher or headmistress in London or PW. DM, on the other hand, can't be a surgeon in PW. But there's also the fact that PW is a kind of security blanket for LG. Her attachment to the village is embedded. It's a big part of who she is. It's about more than career for LG.
They've set up a situation where there doesn't appear to be a win-win option. One of them is going to lose something that's extremely important. How do you decide who wins and who loses? In the S5 finale, DM says he'll be the one to make the sacrifice. Since there has to be a conflict in each series, I have a feeling that in S6 this could be it. There are several options for how it gets resolved, the obvious London resolution, or the PW resolution, the DM & LG go their separate ways resolution (ick!), or even a compromise. Surely the hospital in Truro needs surgeons, right? It's only about 40 miles from PW. Depending on where that brilliant white flat in London is located, DM could have a commute there that takes as long as a daily drive from PW to Truro. Could be that this solution isn't dramatic enough for the storyline, or that these two aren't capable of compromising.
I do expect that all of S6 will be set in PW. If London or Truro hops into the picture and there's a change, it will be part of the dramatic conclusion. Just my two cents.
I don't know the ins and outs of the NHS. But I have friend in England who has recently gone through a health issue. I'm not sure where he lives, but I'm pretty sure it's a more populated area than Cornwall. Anyway, after various tests he was told that his local hospital could not perform the procedure he needed to fix his condition. He had to go to a hospital in London to do that. It's not an extremely complicated procedure by our US health standards, but apparently his local hospital did not have the equipment, and maybe personel, to perform the procedure he needed.
So I'm not sure that the Doc would be happy in Truro. It seems that maybe some of the more complex surgeries are centralized in the bigger cities. I think he would want to be where there are more challenging cases. I could be wrong, this is just a situation I know about because of my friend. It might not be indicative of the whole system.
There was a discussion about the finch in the window during S5. I looked up the symbolism of the finch which briefly states: When finches come into our awareness it is a sure sign of ebullient times ahead. Finches are a sparkly omen of high energy and bright days on the horizon. Finches are never satisfied to just go from point A to point B. They seem to boogie from place to place. Now, as to the dream sequence at the beginning of the series in which DM talks to LG about the finch landing on his finger-- and afterwards the earth opens up between them, then never again was there a mention or sign of a finch until S5. Are the writers and/or prop people winding us up once again as we discover the finch being mentioned or used in this series? Anybody care to analyze that dream sequence LG had?
There was a mention of the green finch. The old smelly guy...was missing his "green finch"...ended up dead in his bag! How does this relate to the dream sequence? In fact in the dream sequence, Martin says "there was an old man whose green finch used to sing to him" then it ends up being the smelly guy? Does that all fit?
Ladyhoop brought up the subject of the bird in the kitchen window. I had noticed the bird in S5 and thought that it was there sometimes and not there at other times. So....some of you may have figured out by now that I really like to pay attention to the background props (I did the Buddha survey a few months ago). I took some time this afternoon to go through S5 to see what is happening with the bird.
The first view we get of the kitchen window in S5 is in E1 when DM is running through the kitchen chasing after Dr. Dibbs. The bird is there, so it obviously belongs to Dr Dibbs. I don't ever remember seeing it before S5.
After DM and LG move back into the house, every scene that gives us a shot of that window (from E2 - E7) shows the bird still in place. Then at the end of E7, Louisa leaves the house. The first time we see the window in E8 is when Louisa arrives at the back door to give Martin the details for the christening - the bird is missing. The bird does not reappear until the scene at the end of E8 when Louisa shows up and we have the talk about did he enjoy being a surgeon again. Interestingly, when the scene starts, Martin's shoulder is hiding the bird. Then the shot moves to a closeup of the window and it is a perfectly arranged shot with the side of Martin's face and his shoulder on the left, Louisa's face and upper body looking at him on the right, and the bird centered perfectly between them. This is also the best closeup we have ever seen of the bird. The only kitchen scene we get in E8 is when Louisa arrives at the back door to ask Martin to watch James the next day. The bird is gone again.
So, the bird disappears when Louisa leaves, except for one scene that we have all been puzzling about - and a scene that seems like it might have a lot of meaning. Interesting that this is when the bird briefly reappears.
Shop Girl, thanks so much for going to the trouble to gather all of that detail. It's very interesting and the next time I watch S5, you can be sure that I'll be watching for the positioning of the bird.
There's been speculation on who is responsible for assorted symbolic items. The writers don't seem involved or even aware of this stuff: the Buddhas, the clocks, the onions, and now the bird. I think it makes sense that the writers aren't involved in this when you consider what MC has said about the creative process they use. Based on assorted interviews (including some related to what MC called the "poor writer" who "just happened" to be assigned to write the non-wedding episode), it appears that PB and MC come up with the main story arc, they consult with the medical adviser, and then they get down to more detail, deciding what's going to happen in each episode. Then the episodes are assigned to different writers. The writers are told what's to happen in each episode. They turn the ideas into scripts, write the dialogue, etc. And then PB and MC revise, send scripts back, make changes, etc. Once they're actually filming, it seems there are still many changes that happen when they feel there's a scene that isn't working as written.
The point of all my long-winded yammering is that I think things happen as the sets are prepared, as rehearsals take place, as filming begins that happen then and there. I think some of the mysterious but apparently symbolic items may come from the minds of Ben Bolt, or PB, or even MC. Here, put this onion in Louisa's car window. Let's put a finch in the window when Louisa and Martin are together and take it away when they're apart or struggling. While Louisa's pregnant and getting closer and closer to giving birth, let's put a clock in Martin's window to show that his time to resolve things is getting shorter and shorter.
That kind of thing. Yep, I know, it's just speculation.
In the S4 scene on the porch after LG showed up pregnant, she did tell DM she didn't like London. Back in S3 when Holly asked her if she missed London, LG implied that she didn't. She said she sometimes missed college but that was a long time ago. And in S5 when DM and AR discuss the upcoming move to London, AR suggests that LG doesn't (or won't) like London, and DM agrees. I need to re-watch the scene, but doesn't AR say something like, "I don't imagine she likes it," and DM responds, "No."
As for the question about whether LG should move to London to make DM happy, I tend to waver on that. Maybe it depends on my mood. For one thing, it's been pointed out that LG's career is more "portable". She could be a teacher or headmistress in London or PW. DM, on the other hand, can't be a surgeon in PW. But there's also the fact that PW is a kind of security blanket for LG. Her attachment to the village is embedded. It's a big part of who she is. It's about more than career for LG.
They've set up a situation where there doesn't appear to be a win-win option. One of them is going to lose something that's extremely important. How do you decide who wins and who loses? In the S5 finale, DM says he'll be the one to make the sacrifice. Since there has to be a conflict in each series, I have a feeling that in S6 this could be it. There are several options for how it gets resolved, the obvious London resolution, or the PW resolution, the DM & LG go their separate ways resolution (ick!), or even a compromise. Surely the hospital in Truro needs surgeons, right? It's only about 40 miles from PW. Depending on where that brilliant white flat in London is located, DM could have a commute there that takes as long as a daily drive from PW to Truro. Could be that this solution isn't dramatic enough for the storyline, or that these two aren't capable of compromising.
I do expect that all of S6 will be set in PW. If London or Truro hops into the picture and there's a change, it will be part of the dramatic conclusion. Just my two cents.
At some point, someone posted about the life of a surgeon, which they suggested involved extremely long hours, a lot of stress, etc., etc. and that even commuting to Truro would be too much of a burden. whoever the Post-er was suggested that it was almost an insuperable burden for a marriage for one of the partners to be a surgeon. They also suggested there was no such thing as a part-time appointment as a surgeon, or commuting to Truro.
don't know whether any of that stands up to closer examination, but suggests another complication to the choice.
It may actually be that this issue remains unresolved at end of S6, and all that is clear is that they will likely -- have a good chance to -- remain together, wherever they wind up. Maybe the answer is that they remain lovers and partners -- perhaps spouses -- with a commuting marriage. People do it, although perhaps not between London and Cornwall.
I am of the mind that LG would be very unhappy in London, both because it is outside of her comfort zone, but because DM's work commitment will mean that they won't have much time together as a family. So I sort of hope that the resolution isn't that she and JH move to LOndon with him.
Shop Girl, thanks so much for going to the trouble to gather all of that detail. It's very interesting and the next time I watch S5, you can be sure that I'll be watching for the positioning of the bird.
There's been speculation on who is responsible for assorted symbolic items. The writers don't seem involved or even aware of this stuff: the Buddhas, the clocks, the onions, and now the bird. I think it makes sense that the writers aren't involved in this when you consider what MC has said about the creative process they use. Based on assorted interviews (including some related to what MC called the "poor writer" who "just happened" to be assigned to write the non-wedding episode), it appears that PB and MC come up with the main story arc, they consult with the medical adviser, and then they get down to more detail, deciding what's going to happen in each episode. Then the episodes are assigned to different writers. The writers are told what's to happen in each episode. They turn the ideas into scripts, write the dialogue, etc. And then PB and MC revise, send scripts back, make changes, etc. Once they're actually filming, it seems there are still many changes that happen when they feel there's a scene that isn't working as written.
The point of all my long-winded yammering is that I think things happen as the sets are prepared, as rehearsals take place, as filming begins that happen then and there. I think some of the mysterious but apparently symbolic items may come from the minds of Ben Bolt, or PB, or even MC. Here, put this onion in Louisa's car window. Let's put a finch in the window when Louisa and Martin are together and take it away when they're apart or struggling. While Louisa's pregnant and getting closer and closer to giving birth, let's put a clock in Martin's window to show that his time to resolve things is getting shorter and shorter.
That kind of thing. Yep, I know, it's just speculation.
Makes a lot of sense. I think it has to be down to BB or PB, working with the prop department. Certainly not the writers.
There was a mention of the green finch. The old smelly guy...was missing his "green finch"...ended up dead in his bag! How does this relate to the dream sequence? In fact in the dream sequence, Martin says "there was an old man whose green finch used to sing to him" then it ends up being the smelly guy? Does that all fit?
OMG, the smelly guy. This just gets wierder and weirder.
I don't know the ins and outs of the NHS. But I have friend in England who has recently gone through a health issue. I'm not sure where he lives, but I'm pretty sure it's a more populated area than Cornwall. Anyway, after various tests he was told that his local hospital could not perform the procedure he needed to fix his condition. He had to go to a hospital in London to do that. It's not an extremely complicated procedure by our US health standards, but apparently his local hospital did not have the equipment, and maybe personel, to perform the procedure he needed.
So I'm not sure that the Doc would be happy in Truro. It seems that maybe some of the more complex surgeries are centralized in the bigger cities. I think he would want to be where there are more challenging cases. I could be wrong, this is just a situation I know about because of my friend. It might not be indicative of the whole system.
Obviously I have no idea how things like that happen there. But isn't the hospital where LG/JH/DM went after JH was born actually something like the North Cornwall Regional Medical Center? Here that kind of place even in a semi-rural area normally would have surgeons and specialists, etc., so that only the most complicated cases have to be sent to the nearest big city hospital.
Could someone in the UK fill us in on how that works there? It just seems strange to me that patients in Cornwall would have to be sent more than five hours away to London, but maybe that's what happens and my fantasy of a compromise for DM and LG is just a pipe dream.
At some point, someone posted about the life of a surgeon, which they suggested involved extremely long hours, a lot of stress, etc., etc. and that even commuting to Truro would be too much of a burden. whoever the Post-er was suggested that it was almost an insuperable burden for a marriage for one of the partners to be a surgeon. They also suggested there was no such thing as a part-time appointment as a surgeon, or commuting to Truro.
don't know whether any of that stands up to closer examination, but suggests another complication to the choice.
It may actually be that this issue remains unresolved at end of S6, and all that is clear is that they will likely -- have a good chance to -- remain together, wherever they wind up. Maybe the answer is that they remain lovers and partners -- perhaps spouses -- with a commuting marriage. People do it, although perhaps not between London and Cornwall.
I am of the mind that LG would be very unhappy in London, both because it is outside of her comfort zone, but because DM's work commitment will mean that they won't have much time together as a family. So I sort of hope that the resolution isn't that she and JH move to LOndon with him.
Good points. There goes my neat little compromise. So I guess I have to accept that it's all or nothing; it's London or Portwenn, and either DM or LG will have to make the sacrifice. He's already said he'll do it, but events in S6 could change that.
You know, this really has nothing to do with anything, but whenever I hear DM complain about PW or Cornwall, I wish I could tell him, "Open your eyes, man, and look around you at the breathtaking beauty!" So far he doesn't seem to see it. He sees pinched faces, ridiculous accents, people attracted to shiny things, etc. Poor Doc.
Well, she didn't want to be with Danny, so that's one thing.
LG has a complicated relationship to Port Wenn. She was raised there and feels on one level, I think, safest there.
Change is not something either LG or DM like or welcome, in life, or in themselves. Neither are very good at it. LG likes Port Wenn because she has a good job (her self-identity), and has her habits, her stores, her friends, the same paths she has walked for nearly 40 years.
When LG has been surprised, and change has happened, it hasn't been good--her mother left, her father was completely unreliable so many times, and no doubt neglectful. Port Wenn the town itself has been the most stable "thing" in her life and she depends on that.
My point of view, yes, she should move to London, where Martin can go back to surgery and she can get another job teaching. We've discussed that her job is much more mobile than Heads of Vascular Departments at hospitals.
HOWEVER, DM would have to agree to not put his job solely first, and commit to spending time with her and James, and be willing to socialize with others as couples to help her make friends. He would also have to be okay with her getting a teaching job and JH having two working parents. They would both need to make big changes in their attitudes and their lives to succeed in London.
You've got me really thinking about it, but do you think they can do this? DM may be willing, but can he really pull it off, putting family before his job, socializing with others, changing his attitude toward LG's career? And what about her? Is she capable of adapting, considering her insecurities and abandonment issues? I've actually been there, in that situation. Home alone with an infant, living in a strange city away from friends and family, with a husband who seldom got home before 9 or 10 at night. Many times I felt on the verge of losing it, and often was tempted to just toss a few things in the car, grab the baby, and drive back to my hometown.
I think it will take a lot of change on both of their parts to make the London option work. Maybe we'll see enough growth in S6 so that, if by the end of the series they really do point the Lexus toward London, we have some amount of confidence that they've learned that home really is where the heart is.
You've got me really thinking about it, but do you think they can do this? DM may be willing, but can he really pull it off, putting family before his job, socializing with others, changing his attitude toward LG's career? And what about her? Is she capable of adapting, considering her insecurities and abandonment issues? I've actually been there, in that situation. Home alone with an infant, living in a strange city away from friends and family, with a husband who seldom got home before 9 or 10 at night. Many times I felt on the verge of losing it, and often was tempted to just toss a few things in the car, grab the baby, and drive back to my hometown.
I think it will take a lot of change on both of their parts to make the London option work. Maybe we'll see enough growth in S6 so that, if by the end of the series they really do point the Lexus toward London, we have some amount of confidence that they've learned that home really is where the heart is.
It is a lot of change for DM, but maybe not so much for LG, aside from being away from Port Wenn. But, maybe LG needs to grow up and change, too, into a married woman with a husband who has a stupendous career at an important hospital in London, while she finds a new teaching career herself. In relationships, everything cannot always go one person's way to maintain happiness all around. People have to give.
With LG having a husband she loves and a baby she adores, being in London may not be that horrific to her.
Let's assume that DM is working hard to make LG happy, by spending time with her and James, and being affectionate, saying I love you, respecting her opinions, continuing to help out at home and with the baby, and so forth.
Now it's up to Louisa. London is a big city. There are all kinds of ways to meet people. Perhaps she can join a MEETUP.com group for mothers in London, or teachers or a woman's social group, until she gets going with her new job and makes friends. I just checked MEETUP.COM London--we have teacher groups, Mothers Naturally, nature walkers, etc. Loads of ways to meet other women. Let's realize this is 2012! She doesn't have to sit at home in their apartment, lost and alone, all day while Martin is at hospital. LG is friendly, social and has resources to make contacts with the motivation that her husband works at Imperial and she is learning how to fit in. Then, when she starts working herself, she'll meet other friends there, and have a rich life in London.
I have no idea if they will or will not wind up in London or not. I'm not emotionally invested in it one way or the other. I have confidence that everyone with the show is organizing the best last season they can and they do have very difficult decisions to make. But, my point is that living in London for LG does not have to be their terrible, lonely, miserable time in this day and age.
I think it will take a lot of change on both of their parts to make the London option work. Maybe we'll see enough growth in S6 so that, if by the end of the series they really do point the Lexus toward London, we have some amount of confidence that they've learned that home really is where the heart is.
It is a lot of change for DM, but maybe not so much for LG, aside from being away from Port Wenn. But, maybe LG needs to grow up and change, too, into a married woman with a husband who has a stupendous career at an important hospital in London, while she finds a new teaching career herself. In relationships, everything cannot always go one person's way to maintain happiness all around. People have to give.
With LG having a husband she loves and a baby she adores, being in London may not be that horrific to her.
Let's assume that DM is working hard to make LG happy, by spending time with her and James, and being affectionate, saying I love you, respecting her opinions, continuing to help out at home and with the baby, and so forth.
Now it's up to Louisa. London is a big city. There are all kinds of ways to meet people. Perhaps she can join a MEETUP.com group for mothers in London, or teachers or a woman's social group, until she gets going with her new job and makes friends. I just checked MEETUP.COM London--we have teacher groups, Mothers Naturally, nature walkers, etc. Loads of ways to meet other women. Let's realize this is 2012! She doesn't have to sit at home in their apartment, lost and alone, all day while Martin is at hospital. LG is friendly, social and has resources to make contacts with the motivation that her husband works at Imperial and she is learning how to fit in. Then, when she starts working herself, she'll meet other friends there, and have a rich life in London.
I have no idea if they will or will not wind up in London or not. I'm not emotionally invested in it one way or the other. I have confidence that everyone with the show is organizing the best last season they can and they do have very difficult decisions to make. But, my point is that living in London for LG does not have to be their terrible, lonely, miserable time in this day and age.
Don't forget that MC & PB left London to raise their daughter in a small town in the country. Wonder if that will color how they want the couple they created to end up?
It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that Mr. and Mrs. Clunes are the proud guardians of several nests of green finches on their Dorset farm, and that Philppa. e.g., is an ardent bird-watcher. Or Ben Bolt. (Or maybe Ben Bolt is a Buddhist.)
My point is that the show is larded with personal references -- the most prominent example being the baby's name of James Henry, after their Jack Russell Terrier (for heaven's sake!)
But there is also the little girl named Emily Braithwaite, MC's whole childhood history of bed-wetting, the onions -- which I maintain are a reference to the cameraman Roger ((Robert?) onions and I am sure there are many more.
So to the extent that green finch shows up many times, I'm inclined to think it's just as likely to be an inside-joke/reference made just for fun. I do sincerely regret thinking that, b/c it's much more fun to tease apart the symbolism.
I wonder what the chances are of someday someone who knows something about the show actually getting to interact with Ben Bolt and ask him some of these questions.
It is a lot of change for DM, but maybe not so much for LG, aside from being away from Port Wenn. But, maybe LG needs to grow up and change, too, into a married woman with a husband who has a stupendous career at an important hospital in London, while she finds a new teaching career herself. In relationships, everything cannot always go one person's way to maintain happiness all around. People have to give.
With LG having a husband she loves and a baby she adores, being in London may not be that horrific to her.
Let's assume that DM is working hard to make LG happy, by spending time with her and James, and being affectionate, saying I love you, respecting her opinions, continuing to help out at home and with the baby, and so forth.
Now it's up to Louisa. London is a big city. There are all kinds of ways to meet people. Perhaps she can join a MEETUP.com group for mothers in London, or teachers or a woman's social group, until she gets going with her new job and makes friends. I just checked MEETUP.COM London--we have teacher groups, Mothers Naturally, nature walkers, etc. Loads of ways to meet other women. Let's realize this is 2012! She doesn't have to sit at home in their apartment, lost and alone, all day while Martin is at hospital. LG is friendly, social and has resources to make contacts with the motivation that her husband works at Imperial and she is learning how to fit in. Then, when she starts working herself, she'll meet other friends there, and have a rich life in London.
I have no idea if they will or will not wind up in London or not. I'm not emotionally invested in it one way or the other. I have confidence that everyone with the show is organizing the best last season they can and they do have very difficult decisions to make. But, my point is that living in London for LG does not have to be their terrible, lonely, miserable time in this day and age.
I agree, she is an adaptive person. I think she "didn't like London" because of her circumstances - in a bed-sit @ a school that didn't like her pregnancy.
Also, as far as I could tell, she was sort of keen to move to London. She seemed happy about her decision when telling her friend Pippa and her mom. It wasn't until she realized that he didn't want her to work there that she had second thoughts about it. She was thinking about how they would decorate the apartment, she was planning her life there.
She can make him go to social events with the other doctors, she will meet people at the school, etc. She's not one to sit around and stew. That's why she picked up and left when the situation got bad for her there. She didn't even have a job when she came back - pretty good chance she would get the part time position, but still she took the risk.
I think since he has told her he would stay for her she knows how much he loves her. I think she'll realize it's better for all of them to move. They can still maintain their connections in Cornwall.
I think they will move to London. But I thought they would move there in series 5 when I was speculating about that series.
It is a lot of change for DM, but maybe not so much for LG, aside from being away from Port Wenn. But, maybe LG needs to grow up and change, too, into a married woman with a husband who has a stupendous career at an important hospital in London, while she finds a new teaching career herself. In relationships, everything cannot always go one person's way to maintain happiness all around. People have to give.
With LG having a husband she loves and a baby she adores, being in London may not be that horrific to her.
Let's assume that DM is working hard to make LG happy, by spending time with her and James, and being affectionate, saying I love you, respecting her opinions, continuing to help out at home and with the baby, and so forth.
Now it's up to Louisa. London is a big city. There are all kinds of ways to meet people. Perhaps she can join a MEETUP.com group for mothers in London, or teachers or a woman's social group, until she gets going with her new job and makes friends. I just checked MEETUP.COM London--we have teacher groups, Mothers Naturally, nature walkers, etc. Loads of ways to meet other women. Let's realize this is 2012! She doesn't have to sit at home in their apartment, lost and alone, all day while Martin is at hospital. LG is friendly, social and has resources to make contacts with the motivation that her husband works at Imperial and she is learning how to fit in. Then, when she starts working herself, she'll meet other friends there, and have a rich life in London.
I have no idea if they will or will not wind up in London or not. I'm not emotionally invested in it one way or the other. I have confidence that everyone with the show is organizing the best last season they can and they do have very difficult decisions to make. But, my point is that living in London for LG does not have to be their terrible, lonely, miserable time in this day and age.
You're right, of course, that there are many options for someone like LG to meet and make friends in London. And this is yet another reason that DM has just got to let go of his issues with her working.
Am I right that in his "none of it matters" declarations at the castle, DM mentioned London and what school JH goes to, but he didn't say anything about LG's career? I wonder if that fell into the "none of it matters" category and he just didn't verbalize it or if this may continue to be a problem to be worked through.
There was a discussion about the finch in the window during S5. I looked up the symbolism of the finch which briefly states: When finches come into our awareness it is a sure sign of ebullient times ahead. Finches are a sparkly omen of high energy and bright days on the horizon. Finches are never satisfied to just go from point A to point B. They seem to boogie from place to place. Now, as to the dream sequence at the beginning of the series in which DM talks to LG about the finch landing on his finger-- and afterwards the earth opens up between them, then never again was there a mention or sign of a finch until S5. Are the writers and/or prop people winding us up once again as we discover the finch being mentioned or used in this series? Anybody care to analyze that dream sequence LG had?
That's very interesting info! I like your phrase, "...boogie from place to place."
My assumptions about the dream have always been pretty straightforward. Every time LG and DM start to make progress, something happens to set them back, keep them apart. Interruptions, misunderstandings, arguments, always something. In the case of the dream, it's the earth opening up. Your explanation of the meaning of the finch fits right in. DM is telling her about the beautiful greenfinch, which, as you said, could mean bright days are on the horizon for them, but then, as always, something happens to stop their progress.
Don't forget that MC & PB left London to raise their daughter in a small town in the country. Wonder if that will color how they want the couple they created to end up?
I hope not--Conan Doyle said it best when he wrote the author is not the character and the character is not the author. (paraphrase) It's fun to put little personal references in the episodes, but they shouldn't make DM and LG live like they do based on personal preferences. MC and BP are SO different than DM and LG!
I hadn't thought about MC/PB decision to live outside of London. But it may well be that Louisa agrees to move to London, then Martin goes ahead for a meeting or something and HE decides it's not the life he wants for his child. That way it's not Louisa making Martin give up his dream, but rather that Martin appreciates PW
I hadn't thought about MC/PB decision to live outside of London. But it may well be that Louisa agrees to move to London, then Martin goes ahead for a meeting or something and HE decides it's not the life he wants for his child. That way it's not Louisa making Martin give up his dream, but rather that Martin appreciates PW
I've always hoped for that resolution. That DM would come to appreciate Portwenn and that Portwenn would come to appreciate him, but that may be asking for too much.
Comments
I don't know where I heard she didn't like London (fan fiction?), but certainly she didn't like it enough to stay after college. But even before she knows of Martin's intention to return to London, she has already declared she didn't like it. She had no interest in going to London with Danny. So for whatever reason, Louisa prefers Portwenn.
Should she move to London if that is Martin's preference, personally and professionally?
I was just trying to figure out what is fair for them both.
I have to disagree with this. From the get go, Martin was in exile in Port Wenn. Yes, he had his Aunt Joan, but I think every single day Martin wished he was over his hemophobia and could return to the city and being a surgeon.
He hates Port Wenn and most of the inhabitants; pretty much always has. He is there because he has to be, and as such, is the best doc he can be to the villagers. The fact that he fell in love with Louisa complicates things, but in my mind, I would imagine that DM would see himself back in London as a surgeon, living with Louisa there.
Well, she didn't want to be with Danny, so that's one thing.
LG has a complicated relationship to Port Wenn. She was raised there and feels on one level, I think, safest there.
Change is not something either LG or DM like or welcome, in life, or in themselves. Neither are very good at it. LG likes Port Wenn because she has a good job (her self-identity), and has her habits, her stores, her friends, the same paths she has walked for nearly 40 years.
When LG has been surprised, and change has happened, it hasn't been good--her mother left, her father was completely unreliable so many times, and no doubt neglectful. Port Wenn the town itself has been the most stable "thing" in her life and she depends on that.
My point of view, yes, she should move to London, where Martin can go back to surgery and she can get another job teaching. We've discussed that her job is much more mobile than Heads of Vascular Departments at hospitals.
HOWEVER, DM would have to agree to not put his job solely first, and commit to spending time with her and James, and be willing to socialize with others as couples to help her make friends. He would also have to be okay with her getting a teaching job and JH having two working parents. They would both need to make big changes in their attitudes and their lives to succeed in London.
In the S4 scene on the porch after LG showed up pregnant, she did tell DM she didn't like London. Back in S3 when Holly asked her if she missed London, LG implied that she didn't. She said she sometimes missed college but that was a long time ago. And in S5 when DM and AR discuss the upcoming move to London, AR suggests that LG doesn't (or won't) like London, and DM agrees. I need to re-watch the scene, but doesn't AR say something like, "I don't imagine she likes it," and DM responds, "No."
As for the question about whether LG should move to London to make DM happy, I tend to waver on that. Maybe it depends on my mood. For one thing, it's been pointed out that LG's career is more "portable". She could be a teacher or headmistress in London or PW. DM, on the other hand, can't be a surgeon in PW. But there's also the fact that PW is a kind of security blanket for LG. Her attachment to the village is embedded. It's a big part of who she is. It's about more than career for LG.
They've set up a situation where there doesn't appear to be a win-win option. One of them is going to lose something that's extremely important. How do you decide who wins and who loses? In the S5 finale, DM says he'll be the one to make the sacrifice. Since there has to be a conflict in each series, I have a feeling that in S6 this could be it. There are several options for how it gets resolved, the obvious London resolution, or the PW resolution, the DM & LG go their separate ways resolution (ick!), or even a compromise. Surely the hospital in Truro needs surgeons, right? It's only about 40 miles from PW. Depending on where that brilliant white flat in London is located, DM could have a commute there that takes as long as a daily drive from PW to Truro. Could be that this solution isn't dramatic enough for the storyline, or that these two aren't capable of compromising.
I do expect that all of S6 will be set in PW. If London or Truro hops into the picture and there's a change, it will be part of the dramatic conclusion. Just my two cents.
I don't know the ins and outs of the NHS. But I have friend in England who has recently gone through a health issue. I'm not sure where he lives, but I'm pretty sure it's a more populated area than Cornwall. Anyway, after various tests he was told that his local hospital could not perform the procedure he needed to fix his condition. He had to go to a hospital in London to do that. It's not an extremely complicated procedure by our US health standards, but apparently his local hospital did not have the equipment, and maybe personel, to perform the procedure he needed.
So I'm not sure that the Doc would be happy in Truro. It seems that maybe some of the more complex surgeries are centralized in the bigger cities. I think he would want to be where there are more challenging cases. I could be wrong, this is just a situation I know about because of my friend. It might not be indicative of the whole system.
Shop Girl, thanks so much for going to the trouble to gather all of that detail. It's very interesting and the next time I watch S5, you can be sure that I'll be watching for the positioning of the bird.
There's been speculation on who is responsible for assorted symbolic items. The writers don't seem involved or even aware of this stuff: the Buddhas, the clocks, the onions, and now the bird. I think it makes sense that the writers aren't involved in this when you consider what MC has said about the creative process they use. Based on assorted interviews (including some related to what MC called the "poor writer" who "just happened" to be assigned to write the non-wedding episode), it appears that PB and MC come up with the main story arc, they consult with the medical adviser, and then they get down to more detail, deciding what's going to happen in each episode. Then the episodes are assigned to different writers. The writers are told what's to happen in each episode. They turn the ideas into scripts, write the dialogue, etc. And then PB and MC revise, send scripts back, make changes, etc. Once they're actually filming, it seems there are still many changes that happen when they feel there's a scene that isn't working as written.
The point of all my long-winded yammering is that I think things happen as the sets are prepared, as rehearsals take place, as filming begins that happen then and there. I think some of the mysterious but apparently symbolic items may come from the minds of Ben Bolt, or PB, or even MC. Here, put this onion in Louisa's car window. Let's put a finch in the window when Louisa and Martin are together and take it away when they're apart or struggling. While Louisa's pregnant and getting closer and closer to giving birth, let's put a clock in Martin's window to show that his time to resolve things is getting shorter and shorter.
That kind of thing. Yep, I know, it's just speculation.
At some point, someone posted about the life of a surgeon, which they suggested involved extremely long hours, a lot of stress, etc., etc. and that even commuting to Truro would be too much of a burden. whoever the Post-er was suggested that it was almost an insuperable burden for a marriage for one of the partners to be a surgeon. They also suggested there was no such thing as a part-time appointment as a surgeon, or commuting to Truro.
don't know whether any of that stands up to closer examination, but suggests another complication to the choice.
It may actually be that this issue remains unresolved at end of S6, and all that is clear is that they will likely -- have a good chance to -- remain together, wherever they wind up. Maybe the answer is that they remain lovers and partners -- perhaps spouses -- with a commuting marriage. People do it, although perhaps not between London and Cornwall.
I am of the mind that LG would be very unhappy in London, both because it is outside of her comfort zone, but because DM's work commitment will mean that they won't have much time together as a family. So I sort of hope that the resolution isn't that she and JH move to LOndon with him.
OMG, the smelly guy. This just gets wierder and weirder.
Obviously I have no idea how things like that happen there. But isn't the hospital where LG/JH/DM went after JH was born actually something like the North Cornwall Regional Medical Center? Here that kind of place even in a semi-rural area normally would have surgeons and specialists, etc., so that only the most complicated cases have to be sent to the nearest big city hospital.
Could someone in the UK fill us in on how that works there? It just seems strange to me that patients in Cornwall would have to be sent more than five hours away to London, but maybe that's what happens and my fantasy of a compromise for DM and LG is just a pipe dream.
Good points. There goes my neat little compromise. So I guess I have to accept that it's all or nothing; it's London or Portwenn, and either DM or LG will have to make the sacrifice. He's already said he'll do it, but events in S6 could change that.
You know, this really has nothing to do with anything, but whenever I hear DM complain about PW or Cornwall, I wish I could tell him, "Open your eyes, man, and look around you at the breathtaking beauty!" So far he doesn't seem to see it. He sees pinched faces, ridiculous accents, people attracted to shiny things, etc. Poor Doc.
You've got me really thinking about it, but do you think they can do this? DM may be willing, but can he really pull it off, putting family before his job, socializing with others, changing his attitude toward LG's career? And what about her? Is she capable of adapting, considering her insecurities and abandonment issues? I've actually been there, in that situation. Home alone with an infant, living in a strange city away from friends and family, with a husband who seldom got home before 9 or 10 at night. Many times I felt on the verge of losing it, and often was tempted to just toss a few things in the car, grab the baby, and drive back to my hometown.
I think it will take a lot of change on both of their parts to make the London option work. Maybe we'll see enough growth in S6 so that, if by the end of the series they really do point the Lexus toward London, we have some amount of confidence that they've learned that home really is where the heart is.
It is a lot of change for DM, but maybe not so much for LG, aside from being away from Port Wenn. But, maybe LG needs to grow up and change, too, into a married woman with a husband who has a stupendous career at an important hospital in London, while she finds a new teaching career herself. In relationships, everything cannot always go one person's way to maintain happiness all around. People have to give.
With LG having a husband she loves and a baby she adores, being in London may not be that horrific to her.
Let's assume that DM is working hard to make LG happy, by spending time with her and James, and being affectionate, saying I love you, respecting her opinions, continuing to help out at home and with the baby, and so forth.
Now it's up to Louisa. London is a big city. There are all kinds of ways to meet people. Perhaps she can join a MEETUP.com group for mothers in London, or teachers or a woman's social group, until she gets going with her new job and makes friends. I just checked MEETUP.COM London--we have teacher groups, Mothers Naturally, nature walkers, etc. Loads of ways to meet other women. Let's realize this is 2012! She doesn't have to sit at home in their apartment, lost and alone, all day while Martin is at hospital. LG is friendly, social and has resources to make contacts with the motivation that her husband
I have no idea if they will or will not wind up in London or not. I'm not emotionally invested in it one way or the other. I have confidence that everyone with the show is organizing the best last season they can and they do have very difficult decisions to make. But, my point is that living in London for LG does not have to be their terrible, lonely, miserable time in this day and age.
Yes! Excellent last thought.
Don't forget that MC & PB left London to raise their daughter in a small town in the country. Wonder if that will color how they want the couple they created to end up?
My point is that the show is larded with personal references -- the most prominent example being the baby's name of James Henry, after their Jack Russell Terrier (for heaven's sake!)
But there is also the little girl named Emily Braithwaite, MC's whole childhood history of bed-wetting, the onions -- which I maintain are a reference to the cameraman Roger ((Robert?) onions and I am sure there are many more.
So to the extent that green finch shows up many times, I'm inclined to think it's just as likely to be an inside-joke/reference made just for fun. I do sincerely regret thinking that, b/c it's much more fun to tease apart the symbolism.
I wonder what the chances are of someday someone who knows something about the show actually getting to interact with Ben Bolt and ask him some of these questions.
I agree, she is an adaptive person. I think she "didn't like London" because of her circumstances - in a bed-sit @ a school that didn't like her pregnancy.
Also, as far as I could tell, she was sort of keen to move to London. She seemed happy about her decision when telling her friend Pippa and her mom. It wasn't until she realized that he didn't want her to work there that she had second thoughts about it. She was thinking about how they would decorate the apartment, she was planning her life there.
She can make him go to social events with the other doctors, she will meet people at the school, etc. She's not one to sit around and stew. That's why she picked up and left when the situation got bad for her there. She didn't even have a job when she came back - pretty good chance she would get the part time position, but still she took the risk.
I think since he has told her he would stay for her she knows how much he loves her. I think she'll realize it's better for all of them to move. They can still maintain their connections in Cornwall.
I think they will move to London. But I thought they would move there in series 5 when I was speculating about that series.
You're right, of course, that there are many options for someone like LG to meet and make friends in London. And this is yet another reason that DM has just got to let go of his issues with her working.
Am I right that in his "none of it matters" declarations at the castle, DM mentioned London and what school JH goes to, but he didn't say anything about LG's career? I wonder if that fell into the "none of it matters" category and he just didn't verbalize it or if this may continue to be a problem to be worked through.
That's very interesting info! I like your phrase, "...boogie from place to place."
My assumptions about the dream have always been pretty straightforward. Every time LG and DM start to make progress, something happens to set them back, keep them apart. Interruptions, misunderstandings, arguments, always something. In the case of the dream, it's the earth opening up. Your explanation of the meaning of the finch fits right in. DM is telling her about the beautiful greenfinch, which, as you said, could mean bright days are on the horizon for them, but then, as always, something happens to stop their progress.
What was the name of the old man's pet greenfinch? I've gone blank.
I hope not--Conan Doyle said it best when he wrote the author is not the character and the character is not the author. (paraphrase) It's fun to put little personal references in the episodes, but they shouldn't make DM and LG live like they do based on personal preferences. MC and BP are SO different than DM and LG!