1. Do you think the women competing in the Olympics are fat and ugly?
2. I don't think most fat people want to be fat - they're not 'emulating' fat people, they just eat too much and don't take enough exercise.
The media doesn't have to be 'consistent' to affect people. There are many anorexics as there are many girls that fake everything they can, including opting for plastic surgery.
3.I don't think you can say that, actually, that's just your opinion. Many men have and do like strong, healthy women, thin or more muscular.
Plenty of girls ARE actually large framed, or athletically built and they are still attractive to men. And these things change constantly.
To say that 'men prefer' narrow shouldered softer women, and that women know it (and therefore want to emulate it) is also odd because it also assumes that women automatically want to please men as a first priority, in spite of themselves and their natural bodyshape. In fact that they assume that they are unattractive to men if they do not have this build. That's pretty negative for most of the female population.
Mmmmm.
Also we don't 'encourage' boys in this way, because they are under pressure, but not to the same degree.
And also, the variety of male shapes, healthy and strong are considered DESIRABLE automatically.
Unlike the sporty women, that you express an unhelpful, but not atypical attitude towards.
1. i have no idea where you got that.
2. people don't "emulate" fat people that way, they set the bar for their own acceptable behavior by what they see in the real world. if everyone around you is fat and pigging out ..guess what? monkey see, monkey do. that is why despite all the poorly thought out cries about media influence and the rest, westerners get ever fatter...
um if girls "choose" their influence then its not much of an influence is it? its just not a consistent argument or theory once you get down to looking at it. you can't blame the media for boob jobs when kiera knightley makes bank doing movies flat as board.
3. yes i can say that, if many men liked it, you'd see your porn filled with broad shoulders. its really that simple.
the large frame thing has been proven to be a myth btw. whether for athletics or claiming that you aren't fat, just large framed, it just doesn't add up anatomically.
a variety of strong men aren't considered automatically attractive, i'm not sure where you are getting this from. old strong men who are fat with a belly are not considered automatically attractive for one. "bears" are not universally attractive by any measure.
boys aren't under pressure to the same degree because we assume they have brains and perhaps should grow and spine and have to deal with reality on their own. a magazine making your boy cry? doesn't really happen because we expect them to buck up and not be silly people.
you see, its the expectation of such weakness and thus the necessary coddling that is inherently sexist. that is the real problem, not the rest of this stuff. you are framing it so women are always in the position of a victim, and that is a far bigger problem than anything else. if you did that with boys it would be seen for what it is... inherently absurd and counterproductive..
Yes, they all have beautiful bodies
but for me the male divers and swimmers bodies are very beautiful.
The girls also have great bodies, very healthy body image
2. people don't "emulate" fat people that way, they set the bar for their own acceptable behavior by what they see in the real world. if everyone around you is fat and pigging out ..guess what? monkey see, monkey do. that is why despite all the poorly thought out cries about media influence and the rest, westerners get ever fatter...
um if girls "choose" their influence then its not much of an influence is it? its just not a consistent argument or theory once you get down to looking at it. you can't blame the media for boob jobs when kiera knightley makes bank doing movies flat as board.
3. yes i can say that, if many men liked it, you'd see your porn filled with broad shoulders. its really that simple.
the large frame thing has been proven to be a myth btw. whether for athletics or claiming that you aren't fat, just large framed, it just doesn't add up anatomically.
a variety of strong men aren't considered automatically attractive, i'm not sure where you are getting this from. old strong men who are fat with a belly are not considered automatically attractive for one. "bears" are not universally attractive by any measure.
boys aren't under pressure to the same degree because we assume they have brains and perhaps should grow and spine and have to deal with reality on their own. a magazine making your boy cry? doesn't really happen because we expect them to buck up and not be silly people.
you see, its the expectation of such weakness and thus the necessary coddling that is inherently sexist. that is the real problem, not the rest of this stuff. you are framing it so women are always in the position of a victim, and that is a far bigger problem than anything else. if you did that with boys it would be seen for what it is... inherently absurd.
You say that people aren't or shouldn't be affected by images. You're right in that they shouldn't.
Yet you talk about women in porn as 'setting' some standard for desirability. Isn't porn media?
And this 'ideal', you have said, is what women know to be true, so they ain't fooled? Into what? NOT trying to have the looks of a porn star?
Is it because the sort of women in porn at the moment are what you prefer, that you think this is somehow 'true'?
For everyone, at every time? I'm pretty sure that porn stars vary, and what is considered most desirable changes over time as well.
You say that people aren't or shouldn't be affected by images. You're right in that they shouldn't.
Yet you talk about women in porn as 'setting' some standard for desirability. Isn't porn media?
And this 'ideal', you have said, is what women know to be true, so they ain't fooled? Into what? NOT trying to have the looks of a porn star?
Is it because the sort of women in porn at the moment are what you prefer, that you think this is somehow 'true'?
For everyone, at every time? I'm pretty sure that porn stars vary, and what is considered most desirable changes over time as well.
I agree they shouldn't give a damn mind.
no there is a huge difference, you claim that women are brainwashed by some mass conspiracy into emuating certain images they wouldn't otherwise.
the example of porn is only to show preferences men choose for themselves as porn doesn't actually judge and only caters to the buyers interests, and oh..they vary, the niches in porn are diverse in all ways, but in general, mainstream porn does reveal wide spread and common preferences...and they tend not to include broad shoulders. there are a few men who lust over female body builders, but like chubby chasers, they are a small minority.
no there is a huge difference, you claim that women are brainwashed by some mass conspiracy into emuating certain images they wouldn't otherwise.
the example of porn is only to show preferences men choose for themselves as porn doesn't actually judge and only caters to the buyers interests, and oh..they vary, the niches in porn are diverse in all ways, but in general, mainstream porn does reveal wide spread preferences.
I take your point about porn, nonetheless porn is a cultural thing, fashions come and go, seventies hair anyone? And porn stars were generally more muscular at the end of the last century (using sketchy knowledge here as I don't really do porn).
But I will say, and I admit, that I do think that young GIRLS are under a lot of pressure to conform, and that they can be vulnerable and think they're ugly if they don't have the type of build that is 'acceptable' to those who consider only one basic stereotype of female forms as 'desirable'.
the example of porn is only to show preferences men choose for themselves as porn doesn't actually judge and only caters to the buyers interests, and oh..they vary, the niches in porn are diverse in all ways, but in general, mainstream porn does reveal wide spread and common preferences...and they tend not to include broad shoulders. there are a few men who lust over female body builders, but like chubby chasers, they are a small minor
Generally porn stars have slim, long hair, big breasts. Yes you can get a range of hairy, old, fat women if that's your thing but they are minority interests.
The typical porn star look of blonde hair, big norks, big lips has spawned a 1000 lookalikes, a massive increase in breast implants & labia surgery. Undermining your earlier contention that women aren't influenced by what they see.
The idea that porn doesn't judge when women are explicitly rated according to their looks/sexiness; are labelled 'horny sluts' ' superbabe', 'sexy **** brunette', 'chinese nice f*ck' 'busty fat chick', is absurd.
Hardly a conspiracy. Mass media images of skinny women are everywhere, they couldn't be less clandestine.
But on the other hand we are told that our country has an obesity problem. It's a curious contradiction that the media is said to be dangerously influential on that point yet at the same time many young girls (and boys) are overweight.
Why does it supposedly effect some and not others? I suppose you could balance it out by saying that junk food is also advertised in the media but then it still raises the question of why (if they are at all) certain people are susceptible to one message from the media over another message from the media.
beach womens volleyball been excellent ! except the us team decided to wear t shirts (boo) but it was cold last night yet it did not affect the ladies they was playing against.. (horray).
Actually the game is easy to understand and strangely all the tickets have been sold in all events !
That being compared with the hundreds of empty seats at wimbledon and the gymnstics.
Who will win the medals?
Australia,brazil ,cuba and the USA forget about the rest !
The only reason why the UK team entered is that they have too basically
There was a very sniffy article by a woman in the 'i' newspaper about the beach volleyball today.
She was disgusted that a lot of the male spectators she spoke to at the start of the game didn't even know the rules
But on the other hand we are told that our country has an obesity problem. It's a curious contradiction that the media is said to be dangerously influential on that point yet at the same time many young girls (and boys) are overweight.
Why does it supposedly effect some and not others? I suppose you could balance it out by saying that junk food is also advertised in the media but then it still raises the question of why (if they are at all) certain people are susceptible to one message from the media over another message from the media.
Some young girls are fat, I don't think they want to be though. Especially as even being a 'little plump' is seen by some as ugly.
Perhaps watching the girls on the Olympics will inspire them to do a bit of exercise too.
And the overly thin ones, might also be inspired to be healthier.
The fact that there are so many and varied healthy body shapes on display must make it easier for many girls to relate than the usual media fare they are offered.
But on the other hand we are told that our country has an obesity problem. It's a curious contradiction that the media is said to be dangerously influential on that point yet at the same time many young girls (and boys) are overweight.
Why does it supposedly effect some and not others? I suppose you could balance it out by saying that junk food is also advertised in the media but then it still raises the question of why (if they are at all) certain people are susceptible to one message from the media over another message from the media.
As I said to Nefiti I think that the relentless media images of perfection, & the obession with body shape may equally push people into complusive eating, food addiction as much as anorexia/bulimia. Compulsive/addictive eating are eating disorders.
Yes I think some people are more susceptible to influence by surrounding images than others, and also some people are more susceptible to mental illness.
The obesity/superskinny axis thing is also partly a social demographic thing. I live in London & don't have any female friends whom I would even call fat let alone obese. But I know 4 girls who've had anorexia. Obesity is worst in the North, Wales & parts of Scotland. It's lowest in the SE.
The whole point of the thread is that it's unusual to see so many normal healthy shaped women's bodies on TV.
They're being brainwashed into believing they should be skinny. That what they are naturally, normally is not right.
Which is not the same thing.
Or perhaps obesity & eating disorders have the same roots?
Obsessional focus on body image leads some to over-eat & some to under-eat.
At the same time there's massive advertising of food in general & junk food in particular - MacD's CocaCola & masses of ccokery programmes on TV.
olympic bodies are NOT normal. they are creations of thousands of hours of endless grueling workouts.
if eating disorders and obesity have the same roots it can't be the media. that explanation just stops making any sense at all once you think about it.
focusing on your body makes you stuff pie in your mouth? no, sorry you are bending over backwards to hold onto your beliefs at this point. you might as well say laziness and work ethic come out of the the same place as well, remove all reason and judgement from everything. you might as well say users of meth have an obsessional focus on health and dental hygiene.
advertising junk food is of no concern because by your own standards these things should cancel out. that or people are deciding for themselves that they like stuffing food down their throats more than they like being thin. hate to say it but denial, discipline is hard for most people, laziness and indulgence is easy for most people, that is why people are fat, not because they've been tricked into it. french fries don't smell delicious because of advertising, they smell delicious because of the hard wiring in our brains.
Some young girls are fat, I don't think they want to be though. Especially as even being a 'little plump' is seen by some as ugly.
Perhaps watching the girls on the Olympics will inspire them to do a bit of exercise too.
And the overly thin ones, might also be inspired to be healthier.
The fact that there are so many and varied healthy body shapes on display must make it easier for many girls to relate than the usual media fare they are offered.
again, if something like that worked the west would be thin, because of all the thin media people "inspiring" girls to do exercise!
I think the Olympics do inspire people, in many ways. Heck, I went for a flamin' walk run thing today (nearly died mind).
"any good intentions are good" no matter how misguided?
no, bad thinking is bad and should not be encouraged, next time someone pushes some bad thinking they think is good intentioned and shouldn't be questioned it might not be to your liking..
olympic bodies are NOT normal. they are creations of thousands of hours of endless grueling workouts
Totally missing the point.
You don't have to have what is regarded as a good figure to be an athlete whereas you do to be an actress or model, or certain types of presenters.
And athlete is chosen soley on ability, not the aesthetics of their body shape. So if you have big shoulders & a flat chest, fine. If you have big legs & no waist, fine. And because they have to be physically strong & fit, then they're not overly skinny.
if eating disorders and obesity have the same roots it can't be the media. that explanation just stops making any sense at all once you think about it.
I said they may have the same roots not that they're rooted in the media. The media is only one aspect. It doesn't make any sense to you because misunderstood my point.
focusing on your body makes you stuff pie in your mouth? no, sorry you are bending over backwards to hold onto your beliefs at this point.
It does with some women yes. Worrying about their weight makes some people eat more, partly because it can be on a starve/binge axis.
advertising junk food is of no concern because by your own standards these things should cancel out. that or people are deciding for themselves that they like stuffing food down their throats more than they like being thin. hate to say it but denial, discipline is hard for most people, laziness and indulgence is easy for most people, that is why people are fat, not because they've been tricked into it. french fries don't smell delicious because of advertising, they smell delicious because of the hard wiring in our brains.
On the contrary, advertising of junk food is of such concern there are limits on what can be advertised when are regards children, because of the problem with childhood obesity.
If advertising did not affect public behaviour, then food firms would spend millions a year on advertising. They do because advertising works to sell their products.
Personally I think chips smell disgusting, there's nothing hardwired about it. But I was brought up to favour fresh, healthy food.
People have always been lazy, but never before have they been so fat, so laziness is no explanation.
Comments
1. i have no idea where you got that.
2. people don't "emulate" fat people that way, they set the bar for their own acceptable behavior by what they see in the real world. if everyone around you is fat and pigging out ..guess what? monkey see, monkey do. that is why despite all the poorly thought out cries about media influence and the rest, westerners get ever fatter...
um if girls "choose" their influence then its not much of an influence is it? its just not a consistent argument or theory once you get down to looking at it. you can't blame the media for boob jobs when kiera knightley makes bank doing movies flat as board.
3. yes i can say that, if many men liked it, you'd see your porn filled with broad shoulders. its really that simple.
the large frame thing has been proven to be a myth btw. whether for athletics or claiming that you aren't fat, just large framed, it just doesn't add up anatomically.
a variety of strong men aren't considered automatically attractive, i'm not sure where you are getting this from. old strong men who are fat with a belly are not considered automatically attractive for one. "bears" are not universally attractive by any measure.
boys aren't under pressure to the same degree because we assume they have brains and perhaps should grow and spine and have to deal with reality on their own. a magazine making your boy cry? doesn't really happen because we expect them to buck up and not be silly people.
you see, its the expectation of such weakness and thus the necessary coddling that is inherently sexist. that is the real problem, not the rest of this stuff. you are framing it so women are always in the position of a victim, and that is a far bigger problem than anything else. if you did that with boys it would be seen for what it is... inherently absurd and counterproductive..
The gymnasts are pretty splendid an' all.
And the girls.
Yes, they all have beautiful bodies
but for me the male divers and swimmers bodies are very beautiful.
The girls also have great bodies, very healthy body image
You say that people aren't or shouldn't be affected by images. You're right in that they shouldn't.
Yet you talk about women in porn as 'setting' some standard for desirability. Isn't porn media?
And this 'ideal', you have said, is what women know to be true, so they ain't fooled? Into what? NOT trying to have the looks of a porn star?
Is it because the sort of women in porn at the moment are what you prefer, that you think this is somehow 'true'?
For everyone, at every time? I'm pretty sure that porn stars vary, and what is considered most desirable changes over time as well.
I agree they shouldn't give a damn mind.
no there is a huge difference, you claim that women are brainwashed by some mass conspiracy into emuating certain images they wouldn't otherwise.
the example of porn is only to show preferences men choose for themselves as porn doesn't actually judge and only caters to the buyers interests, and oh..they vary, the niches in porn are diverse in all ways, but in general, mainstream porn does reveal wide spread and common preferences...and they tend not to include broad shoulders. there are a few men who lust over female body builders, but like chubby chasers, they are a small minority.
I take your point about porn, nonetheless porn is a cultural thing, fashions come and go, seventies hair anyone? And porn stars were generally more muscular at the end of the last century (using sketchy knowledge here as I don't really do porn).
But I will say, and I admit, that I do think that young GIRLS are under a lot of pressure to conform, and that they can be vulnerable and think they're ugly if they don't have the type of build that is 'acceptable' to those who consider only one basic stereotype of female forms as 'desirable'.
Generally porn stars have slim, long hair, big breasts. Yes you can get a range of hairy, old, fat women if that's your thing but they are minority interests.
The typical porn star look of blonde hair, big norks, big lips has spawned a 1000 lookalikes, a massive increase in breast implants & labia surgery. Undermining your earlier contention that women aren't influenced by what they see.
The idea that porn doesn't judge when women are explicitly rated according to their looks/sexiness; are labelled 'horny sluts' ' superbabe', 'sexy **** brunette', 'chinese nice f*ck' 'busty fat chick', is absurd.
i know huh, look at all those skinny women in the olympics, must be part of the conspiracy.
wheres the love for the fat women? huh?
how discriminatory!:rolleyes:
anyways while you complain about how powerful the media is, take a look around, uk women are the fattest in europe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351
it seems this powerful cabal trying to brainwash women into being skinny using the media are pretty useless at their job...
or perhaps the media isn't as powerful as you say...
But on the other hand we are told that our country has an obesity problem. It's a curious contradiction that the media is said to be dangerously influential on that point yet at the same time many young girls (and boys) are overweight.
Why does it supposedly effect some and not others? I suppose you could balance it out by saying that junk food is also advertised in the media but then it still raises the question of why (if they are at all) certain people are susceptible to one message from the media over another message from the media.
Ideal male V-shape, with splendid arms and torsos.... mmmmmm
There was a very sniffy article by a woman in the 'i' newspaper about the beach volleyball today.
She was disgusted that a lot of the male spectators she spoke to at the start of the game didn't even know the rules
For balance did she ask female spectators too?
They're being brainwashed into believing they should be skinny. That what they are naturally, normally is not right.
Which is not the same thing.
Or perhaps obesity & eating disorders have the same roots?
Obsessional focus on body image leads some to over-eat & some to under-eat.
At the same time there's massive advertising of food in general & junk food in particular - MacD's CocaCola & masses of ccokery programmes on TV.
Some young girls are fat, I don't think they want to be though. Especially as even being a 'little plump' is seen by some as ugly.
Perhaps watching the girls on the Olympics will inspire them to do a bit of exercise too.
And the overly thin ones, might also be inspired to be healthier.
The fact that there are so many and varied healthy body shapes on display must make it easier for many girls to relate than the usual media fare they are offered.
Goodness' sake, I don't know the rules for most of the stuff I'm watching.:o
I'm learning all the time;)
Yes I think some people are more susceptible to influence by surrounding images than others, and also some people are more susceptible to mental illness.
The obesity/superskinny axis thing is also partly a social demographic thing. I live in London & don't have any female friends whom I would even call fat let alone obese. But I know 4 girls who've had anorexia. Obesity is worst in the North, Wales & parts of Scotland. It's lowest in the SE.
olympic bodies are NOT normal. they are creations of thousands of hours of endless grueling workouts.
if eating disorders and obesity have the same roots it can't be the media. that explanation just stops making any sense at all once you think about it.
focusing on your body makes you stuff pie in your mouth? no, sorry you are bending over backwards to hold onto your beliefs at this point. you might as well say laziness and work ethic come out of the the same place as well, remove all reason and judgement from everything. you might as well say users of meth have an obsessional focus on health and dental hygiene.
advertising junk food is of no concern because by your own standards these things should cancel out. that or people are deciding for themselves that they like stuffing food down their throats more than they like being thin. hate to say it but denial, discipline is hard for most people, laziness and indulgence is easy for most people, that is why people are fat, not because they've been tricked into it. french fries don't smell delicious because of advertising, they smell delicious because of the hard wiring in our brains.
again, if something like that worked the west would be thin, because of all the thin media people "inspiring" girls to do exercise!
Anything that can help is good yes?
And a lot of the west IS thin, and a lot isn't.
I think the Olympics do inspire people, in many ways. Heck, I went for a flamin' walk run thing today (nearly died mind).
"any good intentions are good" no matter how misguided?
no, bad thinking is bad and should not be encouraged, next time someone pushes some bad thinking they think is good intentioned and shouldn't be questioned it might not be to your liking..
So, you don't think the Olympics could inspire people to exercise, take up sport etc?
You don't have to have what is regarded as a good figure to be an athlete whereas you do to be an actress or model, or certain types of presenters.
And athlete is chosen soley on ability, not the aesthetics of their body shape. So if you have big shoulders & a flat chest, fine. If you have big legs & no waist, fine. And because they have to be physically strong & fit, then they're not overly skinny.
I said they may have the same roots not that they're rooted in the media. The media is only one aspect. It doesn't make any sense to you because misunderstood my point.
It does with some women yes. Worrying about their weight makes some people eat more, partly because it can be on a starve/binge axis.
On the contrary, advertising of junk food is of such concern there are limits on what can be advertised when are regards children, because of the problem with childhood obesity.
If advertising did not affect public behaviour, then food firms would spend millions a year on advertising. They do because advertising works to sell their products.
Personally I think chips smell disgusting, there's nothing hardwired about it. But I was brought up to favour fresh, healthy food.
People have always been lazy, but never before have they been so fat, so laziness is no explanation.