OK, it was Brooker's version of The Running Man but The Running man has long been due a remake. And I liked the subtle differences - in The Running Man it is a bit of film that exonerates Schwatzernegger's character, where here it is a bit of film that damns Leonna's. In The Running Man we the audience don't have much room to feel superior to the TV Audience where as Brooker's version is uncomfortable viewing at times and in keeping the reveal to the end, we are not participants in the same way as in the original and can perhaps look down on the baying mob.
There are bigger differences of course. The Running Man was broadcast on a huge scale to make money by pleasing the mob, where as Brooker's version the emphasis is on pleasing the mob rather than profit making. Interesting difference and one that works well I think.
And of course - Shwatzernegger's character was innocent. But then - after having her memory wiped - so was Leonna's.
I'm glad I didn't guess the twist - I thought it was a 'set up' but as a therapy or punishment for an attempted suicide - sort of 'see, you are running for your life so you can't be that suicidal' (which has a parallel with the Fiancé killing himself) - other wise I'd have been comparing it all the way through instead of enjoying it.
... and it's brought to us by Endemol, purveyors of the voyeuristic Big Brother. Good on Charlie Brooker for biting the hand that feeds him.
Charlie's a Big Brother fan, he's friends with ex-housemate Aisleyne, who he went on a road trip across the US with, and made a drama centred around the show once (Deadset), in which Aisleyne guest starred.
I'm glad I didn't guess the twist - I thought it was a 'set up' but as a therapy or punishment for an attempted suicide - sort of 'see, you are running for your life so you can't be that suicidal' (which has a parallel with the Fiancé killing himself) - other wise I'd have been comparing it all the way through instead of enjoying it.
I didn't guess what the twist was, but never doubted there would be one - my guess was some sort of total immersion game like Red Dwarf's "Back to reality" where it would turn out Leona had paid big bucks to play.
Mind you I think Charlie ment that to be, hence the threat of the taser when Leona tried to look at the phone.
I'm not going to turn round and tell you anything.
As it's a discussion I asked you a sincere question to find out what specific examples you had in mind.
Well I hope you find that I did attempt to answer your question.
I'm really not sure why you answered me in that way.
Am I right in thinking that you're arguing over something?
Not with you personally; more the suggestion voiced earlier on in the thread that anyone who doesn't think this episode worked well, is clearly simple-minded and would be better off watching Mrs Brown's Boys. It's possible to think Brooker is a genius and still see this episode as something of a misfire. Besides, Black Mirror isn't exactly Tarkovsky, is it? The idea that if you didn't like it it must be because you don't have the mental capacity to appreciate it is a bit daft.
But I don't think that the aim of the drama was to make people happy to see her have a Black and Decker shoved up her bottom.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that up to the 45 min mark you're supposed to think of her as an innocent woman trapped in a nightmare world. To introduce from the start that she's actually a convicted child murder would kill the drama because you wouldn't actually be rooting for her to escape her tormentors at all (even if you don't actually want to see her dead.) So she has to be portrayed as an innocent for the first part of the film to function as a straightforward horror tale. But if we have to think of her as innocent, then she has to think of herself as innocent too, otherwise her confusion about what's happening to her would make no sense either. Hence the introduction of the memory loss. It just seems to me a case of the structure of the drama dictating the storyline, rather than the storyline dictating the structure (which his how I prefer my dramas.)
I really loved this episode! Made me think that maybe the girl had got caught up in this scenario for the benefit of others for no reason apart from being portrayed as vulnerable. However, it does pose a very good question...
Would anyone want to see this being the norm for punishing people who have broken the law? It's kind of similar to being hung or tortured to death for the entertainment of others. Is Charlie Brooker trying to say; should we be going forwards by going back to a previous set of attitudes to punishment in the 21st century? Eye-for-an-eye, but with technology.
I quite liked yesterdays show although im glad i recorded it and didnt watch before bed! It was the only one where i hadnt seen a trailer for the show so didnt know what to expect.
One question though, she recognised the man from the van but didnt know where from. Is that relevant to the story? Wasnt he revealed at the end to be the man who presents her to the audience? So maybe she recognises him from the previous day but cant quite work out why.
One question though, she recognised the man from the van but didnt know where from. Is that relevant to the story? Wasnt he revealed at the end to be the man who presents her to the audience? So maybe she recognises him from the previous day but cant quite work out why.
I took it as meaning that wiping someone's memory is an inexact science and it sometimes works better than other times. Also his reaction seemed to imply that he wasn't exactly surprised, like he or the other "actors" had experienced something similar previously.
I don't agree at all. It was just the same as dystopian future writers of the 30s and 40s.
They too were writing about the time they were actually living in.
They may introduce advances in technology to their stories, but they were still writing a social commentary on what was going on around them at the time in the guise of science fiction or future fiction.
Take George Orwell as just one example.
What makes you think that we know better as modern people than people who lived in the 30s and 40s when it comes to knowing how crowds of people behave or how they react to world events?
It's not as though we are somehow smarter than them simply by virtue of us happening to be 'modern'.
Mainly because the main ways of finding out news of events was via the mainstraeam media and government propoganda. Now we have many and disparate sources which allows a view n the round.
why the disbelief then? are you part of the baying mob?
No disbelief, I just wondered why you said you couldn't watch more than 10 minutes of it and then a few minutes later went on 4od to watch the rest of it.
No disbelief, I just wondered why you said you couldn't watch more than 10 minutes of it and then a few minutes later went on 4od to watch the rest of it.
Ok i understand what you mean now... I said i'd switched off in relation to my viewing of it last night...(posted this morning) after which I then went and watched it on 4od.
Mainly because the main ways of finding out news of events was via the mainstraeam media and government propoganda. Now we have many and disparate sources which allows a view n the round.
I'm sorry but thats just another con , people think they're getting more rounded info because there's so much news , but a look at some of Brooker's Wipes series revealed how so much of it is manipulated , there's more propaganda now than ever , and journalists seem to have abandoned all ethics .
and the internet is manipulated too , PR firms have all sorts of ways of spreading bs on the internet (in fact they get us to do it for them !).
I'm sorry but thats just another con , people think they're getting more rounded info because there's so much news , but a look at some of Brooker's Wipes series revealed how so much of it is manipulated , there's more propaganda now than ever , and journalists seem to have abandoned all ethics .
and the internet is manipulated too , PR firms have all sorts of ways of spreading bs on the internet .
I sometimes wonder if there are any actual journalists left - news sites just seem to cut 'n paste articles from other news sites then pad out the rest with press releases and 'twitter rows'. Oh and the occasional OUTRAGE from mumsnet and even Digital Spy!
I'm sorry but thats just another con , people think they're getting more rounded info because there's so much news , but a look at some of Brooker's Wipes series revealed how so much of it is manipulated , there's more propaganda now than ever , and journalists seem to have abandoned all ethics .
and the internet is manipulated too , PR firms have all sorts of ways of spreading bs on the internet (in fact they get us to do it for them !).
I'm perfectly aware of how things are manipulated but as more and more information is published regimes such as the Syrians can't quash the news 'vendors' like they used to and the oposition can't get awy with stage managing videos either.
I'm perfectly aware of how things are manipulated but as more and more information is published regimes such as the Syrians can't quash the news 'vendors' like they used to and the oposition can't get awy with stage managing videos either.
they'll just find different tactics , the real problem is that journalism has lost so much integrity , it's been polluted by so much garbage .
If her mind was wiped then it really wasn't the same person being punished as the person who did the original crime.
All that was being punished was the body of the person, and a new person formed from the new memories.
That's kind of the point (as far as I interpret it); in the public's fervor to get satisfaction and 'justice' they've come up with a system which satisfies that fervor through repeated and futile torture, without serving any purpose in terms of delivering justice.
I loved it, I was gripped from the off (although the first act owes a big debt to The Walking Dead) and by the end I was feeling all beaten up inside. That = good TV for me.
a bit like 28 Days Later crossed with The Running Man.....but the end was a bit 'wtf'?
Did she commit murder? And why did they get her to repeat the ordeal ad nauseum - what was the point? And who'd want to watch that repeatedly?
You not been in the Daily Mail comments section recently? The mentality shown in White Bear is a caricatured extension of the "Hanging's too good for em" mentality.
a bit like 28 Days Later crossed with The Running Man.....but the end was a bit 'wtf'?
Did she commit murder? And why did they get her to repeat the ordeal ad nauseum - what was the point? And who'd want to watch that repeatedly?
It seems her partner did and she recorded it and encouraged him. I don't think she did the actual killing though I may have missed that. It seemed very similar to Brady and Hindley. The point was she suffers every day for her crime again and again, like an endless loop of torture.
I think it was for the audience who were there and not for TV. Like a theme park where you could be part of making her suffer and watch. So I assumed it was a different audience each time.
I really like it. It made me have a think and there's nothing wrong with a bit of thinking! I was guessing all along what was going on, but never came up with the justice take.
Comments
OK, it was Brooker's version of The Running Man but The Running man has long been due a remake. And I liked the subtle differences - in The Running Man it is a bit of film that exonerates Schwatzernegger's character, where here it is a bit of film that damns Leonna's. In The Running Man we the audience don't have much room to feel superior to the TV Audience where as Brooker's version is uncomfortable viewing at times and in keeping the reveal to the end, we are not participants in the same way as in the original and can perhaps look down on the baying mob.
There are bigger differences of course. The Running Man was broadcast on a huge scale to make money by pleasing the mob, where as Brooker's version the emphasis is on pleasing the mob rather than profit making. Interesting difference and one that works well I think.
And of course - Shwatzernegger's character was innocent. But then - after having her memory wiped - so was Leonna's.
I'm glad I didn't guess the twist - I thought it was a 'set up' but as a therapy or punishment for an attempted suicide - sort of 'see, you are running for your life so you can't be that suicidal' (which has a parallel with the Fiancé killing himself) - other wise I'd have been comparing it all the way through instead of enjoying it.
Charlie's a Big Brother fan, he's friends with ex-housemate Aisleyne, who he went on a road trip across the US with, and made a drama centred around the show once (Deadset), in which Aisleyne guest starred.
I didn't guess what the twist was, but never doubted there would be one - my guess was some sort of total immersion game like Red Dwarf's "Back to reality" where it would turn out Leona had paid big bucks to play.
Mind you I think Charlie ment that to be, hence the threat of the taser when Leona tried to look at the phone.
Not with you personally; more the suggestion voiced earlier on in the thread that anyone who doesn't think this episode worked well, is clearly simple-minded and would be better off watching Mrs Brown's Boys. It's possible to think Brooker is a genius and still see this episode as something of a misfire. Besides, Black Mirror isn't exactly Tarkovsky, is it? The idea that if you didn't like it it must be because you don't have the mental capacity to appreciate it is a bit daft.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that up to the 45 min mark you're supposed to think of her as an innocent woman trapped in a nightmare world. To introduce from the start that she's actually a convicted child murder would kill the drama because you wouldn't actually be rooting for her to escape her tormentors at all (even if you don't actually want to see her dead.) So she has to be portrayed as an innocent for the first part of the film to function as a straightforward horror tale. But if we have to think of her as innocent, then she has to think of herself as innocent too, otherwise her confusion about what's happening to her would make no sense either. Hence the introduction of the memory loss. It just seems to me a case of the structure of the drama dictating the storyline, rather than the storyline dictating the structure (which his how I prefer my dramas.)
Would anyone want to see this being the norm for punishing people who have broken the law? It's kind of similar to being hung or tortured to death for the entertainment of others. Is Charlie Brooker trying to say; should we be going forwards by going back to a previous set of attitudes to punishment in the 21st century? Eye-for-an-eye, but with technology.
ever hear of channel 4od ??
One question though, she recognised the man from the van but didnt know where from. Is that relevant to the story? Wasnt he revealed at the end to be the man who presents her to the audience? So maybe she recognises him from the previous day but cant quite work out why.
Makes me laugh when people glib assumptions!
Mainly because the main ways of finding out news of events was via the mainstraeam media and government propoganda. Now we have many and disparate sources which allows a view n the round.
You thought it so bad you couldn't watch anymore of it but then forced yourself to watch it a few minutes later.... Makes sense.
For your information I watched 10mins of it last night and the rest this morning on channel 4od.
I know, you said.
why the disbelief then? are you part of the baying mob?
No disbelief, I just wondered why you said you couldn't watch more than 10 minutes of it and then a few minutes later went on 4od to watch the rest of it.
Ok i understand what you mean now... I said i'd switched off in relation to my viewing of it last night...(posted this morning) after which I then went and watched it on 4od.
I'm sorry but thats just another con , people think they're getting more rounded info because there's so much news , but a look at some of Brooker's Wipes series revealed how so much of it is manipulated , there's more propaganda now than ever , and journalists seem to have abandoned all ethics .
and the internet is manipulated too , PR firms have all sorts of ways of spreading bs on the internet (in fact they get us to do it for them !).
I sometimes wonder if there are any actual journalists left - news sites just seem to cut 'n paste articles from other news sites then pad out the rest with press releases and 'twitter rows'. Oh and the occasional OUTRAGE from mumsnet and even Digital Spy!
I'm perfectly aware of how things are manipulated but as more and more information is published regimes such as the Syrians can't quash the news 'vendors' like they used to and the oposition can't get awy with stage managing videos either.
they'll just find different tactics , the real problem is that journalism has lost so much integrity , it's been polluted by so much garbage .
If her mind was wiped then it really wasn't the same person being punished as the person who did the original crime.
All that was being punished was the body of the person, and a new person formed from the new memories.
That's kind of the point (as far as I interpret it); in the public's fervor to get satisfaction and 'justice' they've come up with a system which satisfies that fervor through repeated and futile torture, without serving any purpose in terms of delivering justice.
I loved it, I was gripped from the off (although the first act owes a big debt to The Walking Dead) and by the end I was feeling all beaten up inside. That = good TV for me.
Did she commit murder? And why did they get her to repeat the ordeal ad nauseum - what was the point? And who'd want to watch that repeatedly?
You not been in the Daily Mail comments section recently? The mentality shown in White Bear is a caricatured extension of the "Hanging's too good for em" mentality.
I think it was for the audience who were there and not for TV. Like a theme park where you could be part of making her suffer and watch. So I assumed it was a different audience each time.
I really like it. It made me have a think and there's nothing wrong with a bit of thinking! I was guessing all along what was going on, but never came up with the justice take.