Options
Germany want Holocaust denial and Nazi symbols criminalised across Europe.
As if the assault on free speech and protest isn't enough it seems that the Germans who have just started a six-month presidency are joining in by
http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,1991298,00.html
Also from the piece;
This German presidency worries me. Germany also wishes to expand Europol power by sharing of DNA, fingerprinting and car registration information among the 27 countries of the EU. Merkel also wishes to revive the EU constitution.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,1991298,00.html
Also from the piece;
This German presidency worries me. Germany also wishes to expand Europol power by sharing of DNA, fingerprinting and car registration information among the 27 countries of the EU. Merkel also wishes to revive the EU constitution.
0
Comments
Millions of people (I'm not going to argue over numbers) died and suffered horribly in the Holocaust, any one who denies it probably needs their head looking at to be honest.
Are you of the "I agree with free speech as long it agrees with me" school of thinking.
And given a criminal record? and thrown in jail?
If so why limit it what about those who deny genocide in Rawanda, Darfur or those who deny Slavery?
Surely anyone who has such strong disbelief in the Holocaust, must have some other motive... anti-semitism perhaps? A Neo-Nazi?
Rwanda, Dafur all genocides, maybe we should, would you really want to work with someone so stupid? Someone who denied the facts of the deaths of countless numbers of people purely due to their race? Why on Earth would they believe that, there must be something evil inside of them to make them believe that.
The point of slavery is much more difficult, this is simply because it is much harder to say when exactly slavery occured, and when it didn't, it is still going on today in one form or another.
Or did you mean purely the Slavery of Africans in cotton fields in the Americas? In which case don't forget we were sold those slaves by Native Africans, those slaves would have probably been slaves whether we bought them or not. I think we should focus more on the abolition of Slavery than going down the Tony Blair route and taking the blame for Slavery, despite leading the way in its abolition, and the fact that I personally had nothing to do with it.
I dont support turning people into criminals just for having a particular opinion.
Combatting holocaust denial is the business of historians and journalists. It is not the business of governments/courts/police.
A law like this would probably incriminate every publisher of WW2 literature, WW2 games and make David Irving a global martyr outside Europe. It would prevent swastika usage on protest banners in rallies.
Is holocaust denial an opinion now? I thought it was simply the intentional denial of an established fact for political gain and hatred...
Once in court the judge will suddently announce... "hold on.. making a model is nothing to do with holocaust denial... case dismissed"... criminal charges will follow for wasting the courts time and an inquest into how someone was arrested in the context of a model plane will begin... and why every copy of The Sound of Music has been impounded when someone will realise the law was actually about neo nazis strutting about spreading their poison...
So what if people want to deny something? How on earth can that be a crime? Why should the law tell people what they can and cannot believe?
Germany and Austria are incredibly strict about Nazi symbols and language. It's banned in both countries and they have good reasons for this due to fairly recent history and the growing rise of neo-Nazi organizations in both countries. I appreciate and sympathise completely with both countries and why they have these laws.
However a Europe wide ban is something i would hate to see, the extreme right would use this for their own gain while any good it might have would be diffused instantly.
Free speech isn't a right, we have to work for it and earn it. Sometimes that means listening to opinions which are vile. Fortunately free speech means those opinions can also be shown to be as disgusting as they are.
Then if it's an established fact, as you and I would agree, then why would it need enforcing via the law? If it's a fact, then it'll speak for itself, law or not. Let the idiots have their say, for it allows us to mock them and dissuade others from following their footsteps. Once you ban such opinions/idiocies, you only give those who hold such beliefs martyr status and fuel claims that there must be something to hide by governments or the so-called world Jewish conspiracy, etc.
Because some people feel they should be free to repeat what they know to be a lie in order to promote racial and religious hatred... I don;t find that particuarly important in a democracy... in fact it seems to be against the principles of freedom to support a group and an ideal that came close to crushing it...
Yet if you ban them from expressing such an opinion, then surely idiots will see this as some conspiracy and fuel support for such idiocies. You know, conspiracy theories can spread whether supported by the mainstream or not, and all banning such opinions will do is add such things. In fact, Holocaust denial isn't really necessary to promote racial and religious hatred (you only need to look at the Politics part of DS to know that
Its not the business of Governments to teach our Children? Its not the business of Government to stop anti-semitsm?
Freedom of Speech and Belief means you can believe in whatever God(/s) you want, and yell to world about it. But not to go around saying that the Jews are a bunch of liars and countless Jews were not really slaughtered by Hitler.
thats exactly what freedom of speech is, to me at least.
I dont ever take anything as truth just because authority tells me it is so...the only way i come to my truth, is by looking at the evidence, on both side, and making up my own mind.
Do you really believe everything you have been taught in school was truth?
There are numerous examples of "historical fact" that have later been found to be highly questionable.
Quite apart from anything, the nutter theorists give a reason for debate and research...and that is the only way we can ever arrive at Truth.
Dont you want your children to question what they are taught? Do you want them to blindly accept everything teacher tells them. Teaching is one thing, putting people in jail for not accepting that view is another thing entirely.
Do you think this will stop anti-smitism? I dont.
You want to forcibly impose your definition of Freedom of Speech on everyone else. Do you support the Turkish authorities banning anyone in Turkey suggesting that Armenians historically suffered Genocide in Turkey?
Why not?
Shouldn't people be allowed to say what they want? If you believe something happened and was of a particular order of magnitude and I believed that it was of a far lower order of magnitude then why should I become a criminal for what I believe?
I believe a holocaust is being committed by the Jews against the Palestinian people? Should anyone that disagrees with me be put in prison?