Luke A/Lauren/Kellie

tmjtmj Posts: 1,571
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When Luke A was a contestant, I basically forgot that he was transgendered and simply saw him as a guy. Calling him 'him' was absolutely natural. In fact, saying 'she' would have felt bizarre. Same with Lauren.

But for some reason, and I'm sure I'll be called ignorant/insensitive/etc, writing Kellie instead of Frank, and saying she instead of he feels strange. I don't see a woman, all I see a seemingly not so pleasant man in a wig and a dress. Perhaps it's because I know that physically he's still all male, I don't know. Is it just me I wonder.
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 502
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    And Nadia? How did you view her?

    Did you know of frank in the boxing circles first? Maybe that's why?

    I see her as a woman, and a lot of woman wear wigs so that's not even a thing for me. I think though, she's always wearing skirts, whereas in reality women don't wear skirts daily, you can be femine in trousers. That's maybe why you don't see her as a natural woman
  • tmjtmj Posts: 1,571
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    I haven't watched Nadia's series so can't really comment there. Maybe it's because he's always talking about 'frankie' and 'kelie' in the 3rd person, it just doesn't feel like even he sees himself as fully Kelly.
  • Desy BoyDesy Boy Posts: 2,971
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    It's the voice as well. Sounds like a dude's to me. Add to her constantly talking about being a "laydee" and it starts to feel like a dark and morose Little Britain sketch.
  • ~V~~V~ Posts: 17,319
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    With Kelliie it seems to be so early on that so many of the stages haven't been met yet

    All of the others were much further along transition road. Kellie's not off her drive hardly and seems to keep changing her mind and reverting back to familiar Frank
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 847
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    As I've posted on another thread I immediately accepted Nadia and Lauren as Transwomen because both were post-op and had been living as women for many years. Everything about them was female, which is as it should be.

    The problem with Frank/Kellie is that even after two years of therapy, counselling and hormones he evidences not one 'feminine' trait. Many forum members view him with suspicion because he seems totally male. His every gesture, his voice, even his walk mark him out as male. By now he should have been coached in how to speak and walk in a more feminine manner, at the very least.

    He never ever celebrates being 'female'. Never says how wonderful it is to be living his lifelong dream. Never says he can't wait for the surgery because it will make him 'complete'.

    He just goes on and on about the downside of being a woman! Nasty, aggressive Frank is ever-present. All this self-pitying weeping and 'woe is me' crap suggest a person a million miles away from being ready to fully transition. It just doesn't ring true. This is why so many here do not refer to Kellie as 'she'. He does not strike us as in any way female.

    I'm starting to suspect that he may have serious mental health issues. Any therapist who, having observed Kellie's behaviour in the House, would still give the green light to his gender reassignment surgery, should be struck off at once.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 847
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    ~V~ wrote: »
    With Kelliie it seems to be so early on that so many of the stages haven't been met yet

    All of the others were much further along transition road. Kellie's not off her drive hardly and seems to keep changing her mind and reverting back to familiar Frank

    Kellie has been receiving counselling and hormones for two years. He says that he finally made the decision to pursue gender reassignment surgery in 2009. Despite having earned vast sums of cash as a boxing promoter he seeks, and has been granted, full NHS funding. If his 'team' see and hear the Kellie we see and hear, how on earth can they have agreed to perform the surgery later this year?

    The stipulation is to live for one year as the desired sex - or at least, it was when my very close friend prepared to transition. Kellie, after two years, is an emotional mess, and utterly lacking in any discernible female traits and behaviour.

    Is it any wonder his back story is being questioned?
  • hisdogspothisdogspot Posts: 23,348
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    tmj wrote: »
    When Luke A was a contestant, I basically forgot that he was transgendered and simply saw him as a guy. Calling him 'him' was absolutely natural. In fact, saying 'she' would have felt bizarre. Same with Lauren.

    But for some reason, and I'm sure I'll be called ignorant/insensitive/etc, writing Kellie instead of Frank, and saying she instead of he feels strange. I don't see a woman, all I see a seemingly not so pleasant man in a wig and a dress. Perhaps it's because I know that physically he's still all male, I don't know. Is it just me I wonder.

    I think that gets to the crux of it

    I, too, never for a moment thought of Luke A or Lauren ( or Nadia ) as being anything other than the genders they presented themselves as being

    It's just not happening with Mallony

    It's not just that he 'looks' like a bloke in a frock ... it's that he 'acts' like a bloke in a frock

    FM's who reject that opinion ( aggresively in some cases ) seem ready to accept Mallony as being unquestionably a 'genuine' transgender, but I don't see what they are basing that sureness on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 847
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    hisdogspot wrote: »
    I think that gets to the crux of it

    I, too, never for a moment thought of Luke A or Lauren ( or Nadia ) as being anything other than the genders they presented themselves as being

    It's just not happening with Mallony

    It's not just that he 'looks' like a bloke in a frock ... it's that he 'acts' like a bloke in a frock

    FM's who reject that opinion ( aggresively in some cases ) seem ready to accept Mallony as being unquestionably a 'genuine' transgender, but I don't see what they are basing that sureness on


    Agree 100%.

    Many here respond to Kellie instinctively. We sense that all is not as it is being made out to be! It's a gut reaction. Kellie seems in every respect to be male. I have yet to spot even one remotely feminine trait.

    With Luke A, Nadia and Lauren H a negative gut reaction did not happen. FMs rightly accepted all three as the sex they became when they transitioned. No doubts, not a moment's hesitation.

    I tried to give Frank/Kellie the benefit of the doubt at first but five days 'in' I no longer consider him credible.
  • Andy_GAndy_G Posts: 11,442
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    Agree 100%.

    Many here respond to Kellie instinctively. We sense that all is not as it is being made out to be! It's a gut reaction. Kellie seems in every respect to be male. I have yet to spot even one remotely feminine trait.

    With Luke A, Nadia and Lauren H a negative gut reaction did not happen. FMs rightly accepted all three as the sex they became when they transitioned. No doubts, not a moment's hesitation.

    I tried to give Frank/Kellie the benefit of the doubt at first but five days 'in' I no longer consider him credible.

    Agreed, Kellie is just too masculine to be a convincing female, the aggression, the walk, the voice etc.

    I'm sorry but Kellie just seems to be a poor drag act gone wrong.
  • zeebrazeebra Posts: 6,885
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    Kellie's problem is that she is transitioning so late in life. She has had about 50 years exposure to testosterone and all the female hormones in the world will not fully reverse the effects of such a powerful male hormone.

    My many trans friends have had varying degrees of success in their transitions, and in general the younger they have commenced transition , the better result they get. My own son (female assigned at birth) began living in role at 16, commenced testosterone at 18 and had top surgery in Florida at 20. He is stealth, and is always recognised as male by anyone who does not know his history.

    In contrast Kellie has lived in an ultra masculine world, is a public figure so is known as having been male, and is relatively new in her transition. It may be very difficult for her to rid herself of her masculine voice, walk, and facial look, but if she perseveres I'm sure she will eventually have some success.

    Facial feminisation surgery and Adam's apple reduction can work wonders, and she maybe will decide to go that route.

    If her gender specialist and counsellor, who are experts in the field of gender identity disorders, are convinced that she is authentic, then whatever people on this forum think is of no consequence.

    I wish her well.
  • GrandmotherGrandmother Posts: 2,091
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    zeebra wrote: »
    Kellie's problem is that she is transitioning so late.

    Arguably, but James Harries transitioned in his teens. Look what happened there; it's hard to picture a worse outcome.
  • zeebrazeebra Posts: 6,885
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    Arguably, but James Harries transitioned in his teens. Look what happened there; it's hard to picture a worse outcome.

    In all honesty, Lauren isn't particularly representative of younger people who transition. There are lots of beautiful young women around who transitioned early, many of whom I had the pleasure of meeting recently at Trans Pride 2014 in Brighton.

    This is Paris Lees - an articulate and intelligent trans journalist. I'm sure you would agree she is very feminine and beautiful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/15/transgender-coming-of-age-paris-lees
  • 09beyoncefan09beyoncefan Posts: 2,831
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    Kellie is very early in her transition, she identifies as female and is living as a woman so I feel it's wrong to say "he", but I think to all intents and purposes, she is technically a man in a wig and dress? I think the BB fee is for her surgery probably.

    As for nadia, she seemed a little masculine at times I think, and that didn't go unnoticed by the other housemates, but nothing to the extent of Kellie!
  • hisdogspothisdogspot Posts: 23,348
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    Kellie is very early in her transition, she identifies as female and is living as a woman so I feel it's wrong to say "he", but I think to all intents and purposes, she is technically a man in a wig and dress? I think the BB fee is for her surgery probably.

    You may be right

    I think there is a possibility that Malloney does not meet the criteria necessary to have surgery on the NHS and is 'going private'

    It is almost inconcievable that if Malloney is being counselled by NHS professionals ( with a view to radical and irreversible surgery ) they would have approved of him publicly playing out his transition on a game show
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 847
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    Why does a MTF Transsexual have to be beautiful? Beauty is not the issue. A person who was not beautiful prior to transitioning is hardly going to emerge looking like a potential Miss World!

    Most of the MTF Transwomen I know transitioned later in life - many were or are married with kids. Most decided to wait until the kids were grown and independent before pursuing their dream of transitioning to female. Alas middle-aged male features do not always adapt 'prettily' to the transition. The same is true of male pattern baldness. Kellie has little or no hair 'on top' and has, like many in this situation, chosen to wear wigs.

    Say what you will about Lauren Harries, she is a totally convincing Transwoman. She can't help her facial features! She looks and sounds exactly as she should - a grown-up female version of James Harries. That she is very tall and thin, and has a curved spine, is in no way her 'fault'.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 847
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    hisdogspot wrote: »
    You may be right

    I think there is a possibility that Malloney does not meet the criteria necessary to have surgery on the NHS and is 'going private'

    It is almost inconcievable that if Malloney is being counselled by NHS professionals ( with a view to radical and irreversible surgery ) they would have approved of him publicly playing out his transition on a game show

    I read in the Telegraph (I think) that he is being funded by the NHS. And I agree that Kellie's medical 'team' would surely counsel against appearing in any reality show.
  • Mrs RiversMrs Rivers Posts: 214
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    zeebra wrote: »
    Kellie's problem is that she is transitioning so late in life. She has had about 50 years exposure to testosterone and all the female hormones in the world will not fully reverse the effects of such a powerful male hormone.

    My many trans friends have had varying degrees of success in their transitions, and in general the younger they have commenced transition , the better result they get. My own son (female assigned at birth) began living in role at 16, commenced testosterone at 18 and had top surgery in Florida at 20. He is stealth, and is always recognised as male by anyone who does not know his history.

    In contrast Kellie has lived in an ultra masculine world, is a public figure so is known as having been male, and is relatively new in her transition. It may be very difficult for her to rid herself of her masculine voice, walk, and facial look, but if she perseveres I'm sure she will eventually have some success.

    Facial feminisation surgery and Adam's apple reduction can work wonders, and she maybe will decide to go that route.

    If her gender specialist and counsellor, who are experts in the field of gender identity disorders, are convinced that she is authentic, then whatever people on this forum think is of no consequence.

    I wish her well.

    ..this is a quite excellent post, especially the last paragraph which should apply generally.
    ..I have little time for Ms Malloney personally, but you should write more often on this subject.
    Best wishes.. your son deserves to do well in life with your support..
  • Desy BoyDesy Boy Posts: 2,971
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    Arguably, but James Harries transitioned in his teens. Look what happened there; it's hard to picture a worse outcome.

    To be fair Lauren Harries was a strange looking boy as well. If only 'lizard' was a gender..
  • jeanojjeanoj Posts: 21,852
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    zeebra wrote: »
    Kellie's problem is that she is transitioning so late in life. She has had about 50 years exposure to testosterone and all the female hormones in the world will not fully reverse the effects of such a powerful male hormone.

    My many trans friends have had varying degrees of success in their transitions, and in general the younger they have commenced transition , the better result they get. My own son (female assigned at birth) began living in role at 16, commenced testosterone at 18 and had top surgery in Florida at 20. He is stealth, and is always recognised as male by anyone who does not know his history.

    In contrast Kellie has lived in an ultra masculine world, is a public figure so is known as having been male, and is relatively new in her transition. It may be very difficult for her to rid herself of her masculine voice, walk, and facial look, but if she perseveres I'm sure she will eventually have some success.

    Facial feminisation surgery and Adam's apple reduction can work wonders, and she maybe will decide to go that route.

    If her gender specialist and counsellor, who are experts in the field of gender identity disorders, are convinced that she is authentic, then whatever people on this forum think is of no consequence.

    I wish her well.

    Well said - and to anyone that continues to refer to Kellie as he/him you are just showing ignorance. Whatever you believe, Kellie wishes to be known as female and it is disrespectful to refer to her otherwise.
  • SegaGamerSegaGamer Posts: 29,068
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    As I've posted on another thread I immediately accepted Nadia and Lauren as Transwomen because both were post-op and had been living as women for many years. Everything about them was female, which is as it should be.

    The problem with Frank/Kellie is that even after two years of therapy, counselling and hormones he evidences not one 'feminine' trait. Many forum members view him with suspicion because he seems totally male. His every gesture, his voice, even his walk mark him out as male. By now he should have been coached in how to speak and walk in a more feminine manner, at the very least.

    He never ever celebrates being 'female'. Never says how wonderful it is to be living his lifelong dream. Never says he can't wait for the surgery because it will make him 'complete'.

    He just goes on and on about the downside of being a woman! Nasty, aggressive Frank is ever-present. All this self-pitying weeping and 'woe is me' crap suggest a person a million miles away from being ready to fully transition. It just doesn't ring true. This is why so many here do not refer to Kellie as 'she'. He does not strike us as in any way female.

    I'm starting to suspect that he may have serious mental health issues. Any therapist who, having observed Kellie's behaviour in the House, would still give the green light to his gender reassignment surgery, should be struck off at once.

    Couldn't have said it better myself.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,499
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    ~V~ wrote: »
    With Kelliie it seems to be so early on that so many of the stages haven't been met yet

    All of the others were much further along transition road. Kellie's not off her drive hardly and seems to keep changing her mind and reverting back to familiar Frank

    It's been my understanding that Kellie has been on hormones for quite some time. Admittedly I don't know that much about the transgender operations, but I believe they, as crude as it sounds, make you take a test run first to be sure it really is what you want since it's such a huge procedure and change.

    Luke A was already half way through the operations. I think he did still have girlie bits but this was because he couldn't afford the penis at the time. I would suspect by now he's, physically speaking, all man.

    I'm not really sure how far along Lauren is.

    In either case though, both are dead certain it was the right choice for them as they are being true to themselves and who they are.

    I'm not entirely convinced the same can be said about Kellie. She still seems to be going back and forth. I'm not sure she's really convinced of who she is herself, which is a shame. I don't particularly like her, but I can't imagine being that unsure of your own identity would be easy for anyone.
  • GibsonSGGibsonSG Posts: 23,681
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    tmj wrote: »
    When Luke A was a contestant, I basically forgot that he was transgendered and simply saw him as a guy. Calling him 'him' was absolutely natural. In fact, saying 'she' would have felt bizarre. Same with Lauren.

    But for some reason, and I'm sure I'll be called ignorant/insensitive/etc, writing Kellie instead of Frank, and saying she instead of he feels strange. I don't see a woman, all I see a seemingly not so pleasant man in a wig and a dress. Perhaps it's because I know that physically he's still all male, I don't know. Is it just me I wonder.

    No its me too.
  • AddisonianAddisonian Posts: 16,377
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    As I've posted on another thread I immediately accepted Nadia and Lauren as Transwomen because both were post-op and had been living as women for many years. Everything about them was female, which is as it should be.

    The problem with Frank/Kellie is that even after two years of therapy, counselling and hormones he evidences not one 'feminine' trait. Many forum members view him with suspicion because he seems totally male. His every gesture, his voice, even his walk mark him out as male. By now he should have been coached in how to speak and walk in a more feminine manner, at the very least.

    He never ever celebrates being 'female'. Never says how wonderful it is to be living his lifelong dream. Never says he can't wait for the surgery because it will make him 'complete'.

    He just goes on and on about the downside of being a woman! Nasty, aggressive Frank is ever-present. All this self-pitying weeping and 'woe is me' crap suggest a person a million miles away from being ready to fully transition. It just doesn't ring true. This is why so many here do not refer to Kellie as 'she'. He does not strike us as in any way female.

    I'm starting to suspect that he may have serious mental health issues. Any therapist who, having observed Kellie's behaviour in the House, would still give the green light to his gender reassignment surgery, should be struck off at once.
    hisdogspot wrote: »
    I think that gets to the crux of it

    I, too, never for a moment thought of Luke A or Lauren ( or Nadia ) as being anything other than the genders they presented themselves as being

    It's just not happening with Mallony

    It's not just that he 'looks' like a bloke in a frock ... it's that he 'acts' like a bloke in a frock

    FM's who reject that opinion ( aggresively in some cases ) seem ready to accept Mallony as being unquestionably a 'genuine' transgender, but I don't see what they are basing that sureness on
    Great posts. Both absolutely spot on.
  • cavallicavalli Posts: 18,738
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    GibsonSG wrote: »
    No its me too.

    Me three.
  • yellowfurbabyyellowfurbaby Posts: 195
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    Sorry he's a bloke in a dress to me. Every single mannerism is male, he has very male features, the walk is male and most certainly the aggression is male. Women don't square off like that.
    I'm with everyone else. Lauren, luke and nadia very easy to accept and I didn't even think about their gender but everytime 'kellie' comes on screen I just think that's a bloke in a dress and bad wig. I'm also sick of 'her' story. Tell us yes then move on and be a normal HM. Noone else is going about their gender or sexuality
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