I think most people who use the tube would see this as pure greed on the part of the unions and tube drivers.
Do you reckon?
Well if that is true it pales into insignificance compared to the vast majority of the British peoples' opposition to the average 50% pay rise the top executives of our big firms got last year.
That's greed 365 days per year, not just on Boxing Day!
Well if that is true it pales into insignificance compared to the vast majority of the British peoples' opposition to the average 50% pay rise the top executives of our big firms got last year.
That's greed 365 days per year, not just on Boxing Day!
Stop trying to deflect from the greed of these tube drivers. Executive pay does not give them the excuse to be greedy. Two wrongs do not make a right.
ASLEF have said if they want Tube Drivers to work Boxing Day they should be paid 3 days pay + Day off in lieu. London Underground said they can't expect to pay this.
Why do people want to travel on Boxing Day. Shops should be shut.
Lots of people work on Boxing Day, many of them in public services. They need to get to work.
ASLEF's demands, if this is correct, are absurd. It's time they brought in driverless trains and automate the Underground. It would make it cheaper for passengers too instead of overpaying people to sit on their backsides all day starting and stopping and doing little else.
Stop trying to deflect from the greed of these tube drivers. Executive pay does not give them the excuse to be greedy. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Oh! You're saying they're greedy now, are you?
I just thought you were speaking on behalf of all users of the tube.
I live in hope that one day you will direct your self-righteous bile at the glaringly obvious displays of ostentatious greed by the uber rich - rather than the usual outrage addressed at any union-backed industrial action.
I just thought you were speaking on behalf of all users of the tube.
I live in hope that one day you will direct your self-righteous bile at the glaringly obvious displays of ostentatious greed by the uber rich - rather than the usual outrage addressed at any union-backed industrial action.
Stop trying to deflect and turn this into a personal attack. How about you give your views on the demands of these drivers?
If there was one thing I hoped for when this fop haired loon got in was that he would deal with both RMT (the usual suspects) and ASLEF once and for all. It would mean a period of severe pain, but most Londoners would understand it would be for gain.
I'm utterly sick of these pampered, greedy, feather bedded cretins and their arrogant, opportunist unions. Ultimately they are digging their own grave, as driverless trains are planned. Can't happen quickly enough. After the fallout from 70s militancy, you would think these overpaid union barons would have learned their lesson. Seems it is beyond them.
Double time and a day off is reasonable. It's what London bus drivers will get.
Double time for a bus driver is less than single time for a Tube driver. And driving a bus is far, far more stressful than switching a Tube train on and off.
Stop trying to deflect and turn this into a personal attack. How about you give your views on the demands of these drivers?
In your view are the pay demands reasonable?
I'll have to know what other ASLEF train drivers get for working Boxing Day first- do you know?
I'm sure you wouldn't want tube drivers suggesting what your pay should be without knowing comparables!
Also, the fact that LU is changing working conditions by insisting the drivers come in seems unreasonable - it should be on a volunteer basis, as the unions want.
Double time for a bus driver is less than single time for a Tube driver. And driving a bus is far, far more stressful than switching a Tube train on and off.
Tube and train drivers are paid for what they know not what they do. A bus driver can be trained up in a week on an intensive course. Driver training on the rails takes from 6 months (tube) to 18 months (Virgin). I have a manual coach license and still drive coaches occasionally.
Tube and train drivers are paid for what they know not what they do. A bus driver can be trained up in a week on an intensive course. Driver training on the rails takes from 6 months (tube) to 18 months (Virgin). I have a manual coach license and still drive coaches occasionally.
Kindly explain the extra complexities of driving a Tube train vs a bus.
Communicating with the public obviously isn't in the 6 months training, as most can barely string a sentence together in coherent English. If a Tube driver makes a mistake, there is a whole array of automated protection systems to prevent disaster. If a bus driver misjudges, he could wipe out the whole queue at the bus stop and half his passengers.
Kindly explain the extra complexities of driving a Tube train vs a bus.
Communicating with the public obviously isn't in the 6 months training, as most can barely string a sentence together in coherent English. If a Tube driver makes a mistake, there is a whole array of automated protection systems to prevent disaster. If a bus driver misjudges, he could wipe out the whole queue at the bus stop and half his passengers.
I find the highlighted sentence crassly offensive.
Kindly explain the extra complexities of driving a Tube train vs a bus.
Communicating with the public obviously isn't in the 6 months training, as most can barely string a sentence together in coherent English. If a Tube driver makes a mistake, there is a whole array of automated protection systems to prevent disaster. If a bus driver misjudges, he could wipe out the whole queue at the bus stop and half his passengers.
I find the highlighted sentence crassly offensive.
Well, I find being stuck endlessly in a tunnel, or at a platform with barely a grunt from the cabin crassly offensive too. As I do being yelled at through the PA because someone is leaning on a door causing auto braking. I use it a lot, and you obviously don't.
They never get it right. They either never shut up, or say nothing at all. I cannot believe the correct way to announce, or how much to announce is not in the training. Of course, not every driver is incapable, just as not every station assistant is rude, sullen and lazy.
Much as I dislike Crow for playing the stereotypical union baron of the seventies and therefore giving people the opportunity to tar all other unionists with the same brush, he is effective at getting what he wants.
Furthermore isn't it the case that the pay rates negotiated for LU drivers are a good example of localised pay rates that the government wants to bring in for all public sector workers?
If I worked during a bank holiday I would be paid double time plus a day in lieu, as I have said in an earlier post I do not travel by tube (we aint got one where I live), but as an outsider looking in, surely all the tube drivers are doing is hastening their departure? the authorities will surely now wish to have driver - less trains instead of the hassle they appear to be getting now.
Also, the fact that LU is changing working conditions by insisting the drivers come in seems unreasonable - it should be on a volunteer basis, as the unions want.
And if not enough volunteer, then the public, the customer, those that pay their wages should just go whistle?
Much as I dislike Crow for playing the stereotypical union baron of the seventies and therefore giving people the opportunity to tar all other unionists with the same brush, he is effective at getting what he wants.
Furthermore isn't it the case that the pay rates negotiated for LU drivers are a good example of localised pay rates that the government wants to bring in for all public sector workers?
This dispute covers ASLEF members, not Bob Crow's RMT.
Kindly explain the extra complexities of driving a Tube train vs a bus.
Communicating with the public obviously isn't in the 6 months training, as most can barely string a sentence together in coherent English. If a Tube driver makes a mistake, there is a whole array of automated protection systems to prevent disaster. If a bus driver misjudges, he could wipe out the whole queue at the bus stop and half his passengers.
Much as I dislike Crow for playing the stereotypical union baron of the seventies and therefore giving people the opportunity to tar all other unionists with the same brush, he is effective at getting what he wants.
Furthermore isn't it the case that the pay rates negotiated for LU drivers are a good example of localised pay rates that the government wants to bring in for all public sector workers?
Crowe is doing to LU what Derek Robinson did to British Leyland - it doesn't end well.
And if not enough volunteer, then the public, the customer, those that pay their wages should just go whistle?
If the tube is an essential service on Boxing Day then surely drivers/staff should be on a rota to work, we were, but, if the rates of pay are that good it should not be difficult for a driver to fine someone who will work instead.
Comments
Do you reckon?
Well if that is true it pales into insignificance compared to the vast majority of the British peoples' opposition to the average 50% pay rise the top executives of our big firms got last year.
That's greed 365 days per year, not just on Boxing Day!
Stop trying to deflect from the greed of these tube drivers. Executive pay does not give them the excuse to be greedy. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Lots of people work on Boxing Day, many of them in public services. They need to get to work.
ASLEF's demands, if this is correct, are absurd. It's time they brought in driverless trains and automate the Underground. It would make it cheaper for passengers too instead of overpaying people to sit on their backsides all day starting and stopping and doing little else.
Oh! You're saying they're greedy now, are you?
I just thought you were speaking on behalf of all users of the tube.
I live in hope that one day you will direct your self-righteous bile at the glaringly obvious displays of ostentatious greed by the uber rich - rather than the usual outrage addressed at any union-backed industrial action.
Of course they're bloody greedy.
They're demanding 4 days compensation for working one day.
Not rocket science GGP.
Stop trying to deflect and turn this into a personal attack. How about you give your views on the demands of these drivers?
In your view are the pay demands reasonable?
If there was one thing I hoped for when this fop haired loon got in was that he would deal with both RMT (the usual suspects) and ASLEF once and for all. It would mean a period of severe pain, but most Londoners would understand it would be for gain.
I'm utterly sick of these pampered, greedy, feather bedded cretins and their arrogant, opportunist unions. Ultimately they are digging their own grave, as driverless trains are planned. Can't happen quickly enough. After the fallout from 70s militancy, you would think these overpaid union barons would have learned their lesson. Seems it is beyond them.
Double time and a day off is reasonable. It's what London bus drivers will get.
I agree - that sounds reasonable and much better than many people will be getting. Rejecting triple time and a day off is just pure greed.
Double time for a bus driver is less than single time for a Tube driver. And driving a bus is far, far more stressful than switching a Tube train on and off.
I'll have to know what other ASLEF train drivers get for working Boxing Day first- do you know?
I'm sure you wouldn't want tube drivers suggesting what your pay should be without knowing comparables!
Also, the fact that LU is changing working conditions by insisting the drivers come in seems unreasonable - it should be on a volunteer basis, as the unions want.
Tube and train drivers are paid for what they know not what they do. A bus driver can be trained up in a week on an intensive course. Driver training on the rails takes from 6 months (tube) to 18 months (Virgin). I have a manual coach license and still drive coaches occasionally.
Kindly explain the extra complexities of driving a Tube train vs a bus.
Communicating with the public obviously isn't in the 6 months training, as most can barely string a sentence together in coherent English. If a Tube driver makes a mistake, there is a whole array of automated protection systems to prevent disaster. If a bus driver misjudges, he could wipe out the whole queue at the bus stop and half his passengers.
I find the highlighted sentence crassly offensive.
But is it true?? not being a tube traveller I would not know.
Well, I find being stuck endlessly in a tunnel, or at a platform with barely a grunt from the cabin crassly offensive too. As I do being yelled at through the PA because someone is leaning on a door causing auto braking. I use it a lot, and you obviously don't.
They never get it right. They either never shut up, or say nothing at all. I cannot believe the correct way to announce, or how much to announce is not in the training. Of course, not every driver is incapable, just as not every station assistant is rude, sullen and lazy.
Just most of them.
Furthermore isn't it the case that the pay rates negotiated for LU drivers are a good example of localised pay rates that the government wants to bring in for all public sector workers?
And if not enough volunteer, then the public, the customer, those that pay their wages should just go whistle?
This dispute covers ASLEF members, not Bob Crow's RMT.
http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/dd-training.htm
Crowe is doing to LU what Derek Robinson did to British Leyland - it doesn't end well.
If the incentives are good enough, they will volunteer.
The public in the rest of the country don't have anywhere near a normal service on Boxing Day in whatever form public transport takes.
Do you condemn that too?
If the tube is an essential service on Boxing Day then surely drivers/staff should be on a rota to work, we were, but, if the rates of pay are that good it should not be difficult for a driver to fine someone who will work instead.