Why is her wearing trousers distracting? She had actually been wearing them all episode (and the previous episode), it's not as if she got changed specially. Morgana often (always?) wore trousers in the earlier series to fight, or when they had gone on a 'quest' and would be camping. It's only that in series 4 and 5 her wardrobe was limited to literally one dress, so she never changed clothes at all. In series 5 she is fully dressed, including boots, when she is asleep, which struck me as utterly ridiculous.
Perfectly clear to you maybe. Obviously other people do not see it that way or we wouldn't be debating it. For my part I never thought that she was trying to stop him from going, I agree with Cadiva that she just wanted him to be safe. Otherwise why would she have said she was happy once Gwaine said he'd go too? If she didn't want him to go at all she'd have continued arguing surely?
Totally agree Nat, in the first few series' Morgana always wore trousers, never mind a breast plate in one episode, and it was only because they were going for the "mad woman in the woods" look for S4 and S5 that she wielded a sword while wearing a dress.
I re-watched the episode so I could get the exact quotes and it is perfectly clear that she is trying to stop him from going. He is telling her "you won't change my mind"? I don't think it was ambiguous in the slightest which is why it annoyed me so much.
We'll have to agree to disagree, I don't think it's in the slightest bit clear.
Why is her wearing trousers distracting? She had actually been wearing them all episode (and the previous episode), it's not as if she got changed specially. Morgana often (always?) wore trousers in the earlier series to fight, or when they had gone on a 'quest' and would be camping. It's only that in series 4 and 5 her wardrobe was limited to literally one dress, so she never changed clothes at all. In series 5 she is fully dressed, including boots, when she is asleep, which struck me as utterly ridiculous.
As I said it annoyed me. It just reminded me of you knew when the new person would die in Star Trek. I always knew Guinivere was going to get into a fight because she was wearing trousers. It just ruined the element of surprise.
Perfectly clear to you maybe. Obviously other people do not see it that way or we wouldn't be debating it. For my part I never thought that she was trying to stop him from going, I agree with Cadiva that she just wanted him to be safe. Otherwise why would she have said she was happy once Gwaine said he'd go too? If she didn't want him to go at all she'd have continued arguing surely?
If she wanted him to go then surely the lines and their interaction could have been written a lot better. Arthur seemed to think she didn't want him to go, and I agree with him. Still, we all interpret scenes differently and I'm given you my reasons as to why Guinnvere went from being one of my favorites to my least favourite character.
We'll have to agree to disagree, I don't think it's in the slightest bit clear.
Having watched it again I thought it was clear but, as you say it's best to agree to disagree but, it's yet another mistake by the writers when the viewer interprets a scene so differently from what they intended.
Thank you for those kind words, and your support. They mean a great deal.
I may retire to my chambers still, but out of tiredness and not with such a heavy heart as before. You will find your own chambers fully prepared for you of course.
I don't agree that she is trying to persuade him not to go and look for Merlin, just that she was worried about him going himself. I also looked in the EP discussion thread to try and find what Gwen had actually said and it wasn't mentioned at all, so I guess we must have had the discussion about it in the overall Series Four thread or in a later episode thread (perhaps the Mithian one) or during the Series Five thread.
Exactly, I don't think it's at all clear she's trying to stop Arthur from going, only that she's pointing out the dangers to him, as she's done previously.
It was in the Lamia thread. Claire and I were debating whether or not the show was sexist.
<snip> Btw I totally agree that Gwen telling Arthur not to go was out of character. Tbh it just felt like they needed someone to say those lines and they picked Gwen. Could have far more easily been Agravaine or Sir Leon.
Just popping in before I set off on my latest quest (to get a few more tons of dragon tray litter for Aithusa and more hairbrushes for Morgana) to apologize to the fair Natarhi for my excessive outburst of last night
Forgive me fair one! My behaviour was un-knightly and completely unjustified, and I withdraw my allegations completely
I'd say more but duty calls, so I'll return for some more undignified grovelling later
I agree with you Laura in that it was very out of character of Gwen, who'd shown total love for Merlin before hand. Infact series 1 and 2 Gwen would have ridden out herself to find him.
But hey if we get into the rediculous out of character moments for everyone we'l be here all day
Just popping in before I set off on my latest quest (to get a few more tons of dragon tray litter for Aithusa and more hairbrushes for Morgana) to apologize to the fair Natarhi for my excessive outburst of last night
Forgive me fair one! My behaviour was un-knightly and completely unjustified, and I withdraw my allegations completely
I'd say more but duty calls, so I'll return for some more undignified grovelling later
*sallies forth into the cold light of day*
It will have to be alot of grovelling my good Sir. I suggest you bring some flowers and chocolates.
You must love Morgana to head out before 7am for things :eek: Star wouldn't get out bed before 9pm for anyone
Oh remember if you come across any unicorns, Star still want's one
I'd have taken the chocolates and flowers... Grovelling is the easy part. I learned to do it once I was old enough to date. Same with most of the men I was with. Though Sir Stu proud knight that he is might be different... :rolleyes:
*Tiptoes into audience chamber and walks briskly over to Lady Natarhi's favourite chair. Cleans it, fluffs up her pillows and sprinkles rare orchid petals and a quick squirt of Morgana's favourite perfume over and around it...then places an exquisitely carved antique table within easy reach of the chair, and on that table places an assortment of her favourite thirst quenchers and nibbles...Has a think...has an idea ...sits down and hand paints a beautiful card. Finishes painting and writes toadying apology in ink made from his own tears of regret and remorse inside Leaves card on table. Withdraws to dark corner of audience chamber and nervously fidgets with sword while awaiting developments...*
*Tiptoes into audience chamber and walks briskly over to Lady Natarhi's favourite chair. Cleans it, fluffs up her pillows and sprinkles rare orchid petals and a quick squirt of Morgana's favourite perfume over and around it...then places an exquisitely carved antique table within easy reach of the chair, and on that table places an assortment of her favourite thirst quenchers and nibbles...Has a think...has an idea ...sits down and hand paints a beautiful card. Finishes painting and writes toadying apology in ink made from his own tears of regret and remorse inside Leaves card on table. Withdraws to dark corner of audience chamber and nervously fidgets with sword while awaiting developments...*
*Enters chamber. Sits in perfumed chair and indulges in nibbles and drinks while considering Sir Stu's full and unabashed apology*
I can see that you are truly repentant Sir Knight, and so I am prepared to forgive you on just one further condition: You must swear a solemn oath, on your honour as a knight, that you will never speak nor even imply such vile lies about me again.
*Enters chamber. Sits in perfumed chair and indulges in nibbles and drinks while considering Sir Stu's full and unabashed apology*
I can see that you are truly repentant Sir Knight, and so, I am prepared to forgive you on just one further condition: You must swear a solemn oath, on your honour as a knight, that you will never speak nor even imply such vile lies about me again.
I'd have taken the chocolates and flowers... Grovelling is the easy part. I learned to do it once I was old enough to date. Same with most of the men I was with. Though Sir Stu proud knight that he is might be different... :rolleyes:
Well IRL I'd demand all three. Sir Stu is getting off lightly.
:eek: You're just jealous that no one is grovelling to you and putting rare orchid petals on your favourite chair. So I am going to rise above such petty comments.
:eek: You're just jealous that no one is grovelling to you and putting rare orchid petals on your favourite chair. So I am going to rise above such petty comments.
Enjoy your petals . . . I have two dates next week with Sir Owain and Sir Pellinore
*Enters chamber. Sits in perfumed chair and indulges in nibbles and drinks while considering Sir Stu's full and unabashed apology*
I can see that you are truly repentant Sir Knight, and so I am prepared to forgive you on just one further condition: You must swear a solemn oath, on your honour as a knight, that you will never speak nor even imply such vile lies about me again.
*Watches Lady Natarhi enter and indulge. Steps sheepishly out of the shadows to hear her words...spoken by an angel with the heart of a saint...sigh...thinks of response appropriate to the occasion* (tsk! no 'sombre' smiley )
I, Sir Stu, swear on my honour as a knight and by my loyalty to Morgana that I will in no way imply or suggest, either directly or indirectly, that the Lady Natarhi is anything less than a model of feminine probity, and a fine companion for my young ward m'lady star
*Completes oath and waits for one of Lady Natarhi's nibbles...or a dry slap*
*Tiptoes into audience chamber and walks briskly over to Lady Natarhi's favourite chair. Cleans it, fluffs up her pillows and sprinkles rare orchid petals and a quick squirt of Morgana's favourite perfume over and around it...then places an exquisitely carved antique table within easy reach of the chair, and on that table places an assortment of her favourite thirst quenchers and nibbles...Has a think...has an idea ...sits down and hand paints a beautiful card. Finishes painting and writes toadying apology in ink made from his own tears of regret and remorse inside Leaves card on table. Withdraws to dark corner of audience chamber and nervously fidgets with sword while awaiting developments...*
*Enters chamber. Sits in perfumed chair and indulges in nibbles and drinks while considering Sir Stu's full and unabashed apology*
I can see that you are truly repentant Sir Knight, and so I am prepared to forgive you on just one further condition: You must swear a solemn oath, on your honour as a knight, that you will never speak nor even imply such vile lies about me again.
Evening my lovely
*Squeezes into the chair beside Nat and eats some nibbles*
Yes, she was disgruntled with various portrayals of women, Gwen and Morgana in particular, during the show's life time and was particularly aggrieved about Gwen's actions in the Lamia episode.
I don't think the show was sexist, it just didn't know what to do with the female characters in it's "bromance" driven narrative.
And I still don't believe Gwen was telling Arthur not to go look for Merlin
*Watches Lady Natarhi enter and indulge. Steps sheepishly out of the shadows to hear her words...spoken by an angel with the heart of a saint...sigh...thinks of response appropriate to the occasion* (tsk! no 'sombre' smiley )
I, Sir Stu, swear on my honour as a knight and by my loyalty to Morgana that I will in no way imply or suggest, either directly or indirectly, that the Lady Natarhi is anything less than a model of feminine probity, and a fine companion for my young ward m'lady star
*Completes oath and waits for one of Lady Natarhi's nibbles...or a dry slap*
*Smiles benevolently*
Very well, Sir Stu. Apology accepted. Let us speak no more of it, but instead enjoy the fine spread you have laid out here.
*pulls up cushioned chair at the exquisitely carved table for Sir Stu to sit on and partake of nibbles and refreshments*
*fetches lady star her own chair too*
ps I do believe the sleep smiley may be considered sombre. :sleep: although I allow it may need explanation, at least at first.
Comments
Totally agree Nat, in the first few series' Morgana always wore trousers, never mind a breast plate in one episode, and it was only because they were going for the "mad woman in the woods" look for S4 and S5 that she wielded a sword while wearing a dress.
We'll have to agree to disagree, I don't think it's in the slightest bit clear.
Having watched it again I thought it was clear but, as you say it's best to agree to disagree but, it's yet another mistake by the writers when the viewer interprets a scene so differently from what they intended.
I may retire to my chambers still, but out of tiredness and not with such a heavy heart as before. You will find your own chambers fully prepared for you of course.
Goodnight my lady *curtsies*
Full Post
Just popping in before I set off on my latest quest (to get a few more tons of dragon tray litter for Aithusa and more hairbrushes for Morgana) to apologize to the fair Natarhi for my excessive outburst of last night
Forgive me fair one! My behaviour was un-knightly and completely unjustified, and I withdraw my allegations completely
I'd say more but duty calls, so I'll return for some more undignified grovelling later
*sallies forth into the cold light of day*
I agree with you Laura in that it was very out of character of Gwen, who'd shown total love for Merlin before hand. Infact series 1 and 2 Gwen would have ridden out herself to find him.
But hey if we get into the rediculous out of character moments for everyone we'l be here all day
It will have to be alot of grovelling my good Sir. I suggest you bring some flowers and chocolates.
You must love Morgana to head out before 7am for things :eek: Star wouldn't get out bed before 9pm for anyone
Oh remember if you come across any unicorns, Star still want's one
Before 9pm? Do you spend all day in bed star?
If a naked Gwaine told you to meet him in the shower at 6am, I think even you would drag yourself out of bed for that.
Treat em mean and keep em keen.
Y'know I think every guy I've ever heard say that has a partner that in reality walks all over them...or doesn't have a partner at all
I can see that you are truly repentant Sir Knight, and so I am prepared to forgive you on just one further condition: You must swear a solemn oath, on your honour as a knight, that you will never speak nor even imply such vile lies about me again.
Or you'll cast a spell on him?
Oh no Avi, I'd say he's trying just about enough.
:eek: You're just jealous that no one is grovelling to you and putting rare orchid petals on your favourite chair. So I am going to rise above such petty comments.
Enjoy your petals . . . I have two dates next week with Sir Owain and Sir Pellinore
Really looking forward to those . . .
*Watches Lady Natarhi enter and indulge. Steps sheepishly out of the shadows to hear her words...spoken by an angel with the heart of a saint...sigh...thinks of response appropriate to the occasion* (tsk! no 'sombre' smiley
I, Sir Stu, swear on my honour as a knight and by my loyalty to Morgana that I will in no way imply or suggest, either directly or indirectly, that the Lady Natarhi is anything less than a model of feminine probity, and a fine companion for my young ward m'lady star
*Completes oath and waits for one of Lady Natarhi's nibbles...or a dry slap*
Oopps my mistake lol 9am I believe is the time I was going for.
Good evening my good Sir Stu *curtsies*
May I say what a fine apology that was
No! Do not do that Stu.
Serves them right!
Evening my lovely
*Squeezes into the chair beside Nat and eats some nibbles*
LMAO Bad Sminty
Yes, she was disgruntled with various portrayals of women, Gwen and Morgana in particular, during the show's life time and was particularly aggrieved about Gwen's actions in the Lamia episode.
I don't think the show was sexist, it just didn't know what to do with the female characters in it's "bromance" driven narrative.
And I still don't believe Gwen was telling Arthur not to go look for Merlin
From memory Sir Owain only looked about 12, the "fresh-faced" definition of youth could have been created just for him
Very well, Sir Stu. Apology accepted.
*pulls up cushioned chair at the exquisitely carved table for Sir Stu to sit on and partake of nibbles and refreshments*
*fetches lady star her own chair too*
ps I do believe the sleep smiley may be considered sombre. :sleep: although I allow it may need explanation, at least at first.
Bit dodgy to be dating him, I'd say.
Oww
Yes, young, but keen
But nothing bad can happen to either of them before next week . . .
Sir Pellinore was an actor called Sean Francis, he at least looked like he was old enough to be shaving and qualify as a Knight of Camelot.