You sure you weren't at a summer camp organised by Conservative Future?
In Clerkenwell, in the 60's, hardly.
I suppose it was being in that area and the war leaving so many reminders, let alone there wasn't an adult/parent who it hadn't affected.
I remember when they put sirens on the corner of our playground to warn about Thames flooding (just before the barrier was built), all the children were convinced it was because we were going to get bombed. Always caused great excitement when they tested them.:D
Don't you know, it's the 'right-on' thing to do these days because, according to the liberals, distinctions between males and females must be eliminated in order to 'liberate' children from the unnecessary stereotypes about what it means to be male or female.
I thought they were all gay except the lead singer who was married to Debbie (fame) Allen.
Did you just make that up? I had to go check Debbie Allen's wiki, because I knew her sister was the wife in The Cosby Show, and thought it should be common knowledge if she was married to one of the VP. It doesn't seem she was.
Aha checked the guy himself, he was married to Phylicia Rashad, Debbie Allen's sister and the one from The Cosby show.
Haven't read the rest of the thread, so bear this in mind.
No, I definitely wouldn't, not for any of my kids (two girls and a boy).
I view it my responsibility as a parent to guide my children away from decisions that may be bad for them until they're of an age to fully understand the ramifications of their choices. Even then I would try and persuade them to do what will be the best for them in my opinion.
If they are determined to go against that and understand the consequences etc, then I'd possibly relent.
In the circumstances the OP described, if my boy was seen or known to have dressed in a princess costume by his peers then it could make his life a misery. (Not as bad for the girls in the opposite direction, but that's the world we live in).
The fact that it shouldn't matter is beside the point, in real life it does matter and that's what you should take into consideration for your child.
It wasn't the world we lived in 100 years ago when pink was a masculine colour.
I don't see how becoming part of the problem is going to help.
Is this argument about the colour pink or whether you should dress your son up in a fairy princess costume?
That was the where it started but its gone round the houses and been turned into questions of repressing kids, misogyny, homophobia, 16th century fashion and 70's popular music.
It is a positive thing to aim for, but how many people want to offer up their kids as the trailblazers who will have to take the most amount of shit for it? I wouldn't.
(and people, or one loud mouth in particular, who keep saying kids that young wouldn't notice the difference or say a word about it, reveal themselves to be naive and childless)
Nail on head isn't it, no-one wants their kid to be bullied (by kids who are also told by their parents it's wrong) so nothing changes. We're not talking about parents forcing their kids to break the gender stereotype, but for adults to challenge their own perceptions and prejudices and not mock others. That would be a great start. Kids learn from their parents, so parents should change their attitudes first.
As an aside on bullying, if your child was being bullied because they were ginger, would you dye their hair? If they had to wear glasses and were being bullied for that, would you tell them not to? If they were bright and were being bullied for that, would you tell them to dumb down? Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?
Nail on head isn't it, no-one wants their kid to be bullied (by kids who are also told by their parents it's wrong) so nothing changes. We're not talking about parents forcing their kids to break the gender stereotype, but for adults to challenge their own perceptions and prejudices and not mock others. That would be a great start. Kids learn from their parents, so parents should change their attitudes first.
As an aside on bullying, if your child was being bullied because they were ginger, would you dye their hair? If they had to wear glasses and were being bullied for that, would you tell them not to? If they were bright and were being bullied for that, would you tell them to dumb down? Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?
Their is a big difference between changing things they were born with and stopping them from adding things that can cause unneeded issues. Children may need glasses. They do not need a fairy dress.
Their is a big difference between changing things they were born with and stopping them from adding things that can cause unneeded issues. Children may need glasses. They do not need a fairy dress.
The point you missed was "Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?"
The point you missed was "Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?"
All the schools I went to focused on various ways of "re educating" children about bullying. Its not a new idea atall and it has a very poor track record, which is why we still have so much bullying in schools and now we also have the added pleasure of cyber bullying, which seems to be becoming more popular.
The point you missed was "Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?"
The bullies are the ones with the problem, why should the victim have to assimilate their behaviour >:( to stop it.
That was the where it started but its gone round the houses and been turned into questions of repressing kids, misogyny, homophobia, 16th century fashion and 70's popular music.
Don't forget that thing you made up about liberals driving children to suicide.
<snip>
As an aside on bullying, if your child was being bullied because they were ginger, would you dye their hair? If they had to wear glasses and were being bullied for that, would you tell them not to? If they were bright and were being bullied for that, would you tell them to dumb down? Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?
BiB: That was suggested to me on here before when I questioned the idea that bullying gingers was relatively ok in the grand scheme of things.
The bullies are the ones with the problem, why should the victim have to assimilate their behaviour >:( to stop it.
They shouldn't. But in the real world that maybe the best way to stop the teasing so if it us over something they can easily change and that won't effect their sense if self why not do it?
They shouldn't. But in the real world that maybe the best way to stop the teasing so if it us over something they can easily change and that won't effect their sense if self why not do it?
So, would you risk (and it will be a risk, both mentally and physically) your child's welfare just to prove that point?
No sensible parent would.
Yes we can all wish for it to be so but it will always come back to the real world, and the real world is a bastard that will bite you and the ones you love in the arse.
Wishing it were different won't make it so, and most parents wouldn't be willing to put their kids in the firing line.
Comments
Oh lighten up.
In Clerkenwell, in the 60's, hardly.
I suppose it was being in that area and the war leaving so many reminders, let alone there wasn't an adult/parent who it hadn't affected.
I remember when they put sirens on the corner of our playground to warn about Thames flooding (just before the barrier was built), all the children were convinced it was because we were going to get bombed. Always caused great excitement when they tested them.:D
Oh bugger, I thought this was "being hit on the head".
I thought they were all gay except the lead singer who was married to Debbie (fame) Allen.
It's funny because it's true.
Did you just make that up? I had to go check Debbie Allen's wiki, because I knew her sister was the wife in The Cosby Show, and thought it should be common knowledge if she was married to one of the VP. It doesn't seem she was.
Aha checked the guy himself, he was married to Phylicia Rashad, Debbie Allen's sister and the one from The Cosby show.
Nice, I'm learning something new every day.
It wasn't the world we lived in 100 years ago when pink was a masculine colour.
I don't see how becoming part of the problem is going to help.
Both. Also the relative gayness of various members of the Village People.
That was the where it started but its gone round the houses and been turned into questions of repressing kids, misogyny, homophobia, 16th century fashion and 70's popular music.
Nail on head isn't it, no-one wants their kid to be bullied (by kids who are also told by their parents it's wrong) so nothing changes. We're not talking about parents forcing their kids to break the gender stereotype, but for adults to challenge their own perceptions and prejudices and not mock others. That would be a great start. Kids learn from their parents, so parents should change their attitudes first.
As an aside on bullying, if your child was being bullied because they were ginger, would you dye their hair? If they had to wear glasses and were being bullied for that, would you tell them not to? If they were bright and were being bullied for that, would you tell them to dumb down? Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?
Or "The Emperors New Lingerie".
Their is a big difference between changing things they were born with and stopping them from adding things that can cause unneeded issues. Children may need glasses. They do not need a fairy dress.
The point you missed was "Should we change ourselves and who we are to stop bullying? Shouldn't the focus be on the bullies behaviour rather than on what the victim did to "make themselves a target"?"
Because the world sees it and it's out there forever, a potential embarrassment in later years, a source of mockery from his peer group.
All the schools I went to focused on various ways of "re educating" children about bullying. Its not a new idea atall and it has a very poor track record, which is why we still have so much bullying in schools and now we also have the added pleasure of cyber bullying, which seems to be becoming more popular.
The bullies are the ones with the problem, why should the victim have to assimilate their behaviour >:( to stop it.
Don't forget that thing you made up about liberals driving children to suicide.
Ok. That too, not that I made it up but if saying I did makes you happy then I don't mind.
BiB: That was suggested to me on here before when I questioned the idea that bullying gingers was relatively ok in the grand scheme of things.
They shouldn't. But in the real world that maybe the best way to stop the teasing so if it us over something they can easily change and that won't effect their sense if self why not do it?
then the bullies win,>:(
So, would you risk (and it will be a risk, both mentally and physically) your child's welfare just to prove that point?
No sensible parent would.
Yes we can all wish for it to be so but it will always come back to the real world, and the real world is a bastard that will bite you and the ones you love in the arse.
Wishing it were different won't make it so, and most parents wouldn't be willing to put their kids in the firing line.