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Setting up a Turntable/pre-amp/speaker system?
OvertheUnder
Posts: 4,764 Forum Member
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I'm an avid record collector and have been using a relatively cheap all in one Steepletone record player for about 2 years. I'm thinking about upgrading to a semi professional set-up but frankly unsure on pricing to get the best vinyl tone.
I'm looking to buy a Turntable (Looking at a Project essential 2 or the SE3) but I am aware that needs a pre-amp, I'm also clueless on setting up a speaker system using a pre-amp and interconnecting leads.
Does anyone have any advice on setting up a turntable/pre-amp/speaker (Sub included) ??
I'm looking to buy a Turntable (Looking at a Project essential 2 or the SE3) but I am aware that needs a pre-amp, I'm also clueless on setting up a speaker system using a pre-amp and interconnecting leads.
Does anyone have any advice on setting up a turntable/pre-amp/speaker (Sub included) ??
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Many modern turntables have a pre-amp built in, in which case it's just a case of connecting the audio leads to any free line input on your amplifier, as you would do with a CD player.
But if the turntable doesn't, then the pre-amp just sits in between the turntable and the amplifier. Connect the audio leads from the turntable to the pre-amp, and the output leads from the pre--amp to a spare line input on the amplifier. Most pre-amps also have a screw connection for you to connect the ground wire from the turntable to as well.
Pricing is the difficult thing, turntables can range from under £100 to several hundred as can pre-amps.
If you find a decent amplifier that has inputs marked PHONO then you don't need to buy a pre-amp at all, as it's built into the amplifier.
Take a look at the Richer Sounds website, decent prices and check out the reviews for the kit that takes your fancy online.
A conventional (older) integrated amplifier usually includes the phono pre-amp, plus a standard pre-amp (typically include the volume and tone controls), and a power amplifier. All in one box. Connect turntable to phono input, speakers to speaker outputs. Job done.
Most people don't have a turntable any more, so most modern integrated amplifiers/receivers/surround systems don't include a phono pre-amp (a few older ones didn't either), hence you can buy a separate phono pre-amp to put between the turntable and any regular line-level input (labelled aux, CD, tuner, line-in, etc - they're all the same electrically) on your new-ish amplifier/receiver/surround sound thingy.
You can't plug speakers into a pre-amp. You can't use a turntable without a phono pre-amp somewhere (in a modern turntable, in an older amplifier, or separate) because the electrical signal from the itself cartridge is far too low and has a specific (treble heavy and bass light) frequency response than needs correcting. You must not have two phono pre-amps in a row - that won't work at all.
Apart from the stylus and cartridge (which should be new), I would buy all this stuff second hand. I'm not saying you should, but I would. You can pick up some complete bargains. Most decent equipment from 20-30 years ago is still going strong.
Really crap turntables do damage records, so that they sound really noisy when played back on decent equipment. Steepletone is crap, but I don't know if the model you have is really crap - I think some of theirs have a half-decent stylus and cartridge, so you may be OK. The worse it is, the more damage it will cause. The better a turntable is, the more it will expose any damage. Hence records played a lot on a really bad turntable are pretty much unlistenable when subsequently played on a really good one.
Cheers,
David.
Agreed, and is what I did.
I bought a Technics early/mid 80s separates system from the era when Technics still made superb audio equipment. I paid the grand total of £40 and it completely blows away any modern budget/mid range system in terms of sound qualify, and for less money.
Funds as always is the ultimate deciding factor, I went for a Denon amp as it was within my budget and also fitted in the the old modified Georgian piece of furniture my wife insists it all lives in and my trusty old Wharf Diamonds got some new speaker cable too. All sounds lovely and my vinyl is back in use.
Doesn't really matter now, but there can't have been very much at all wrong with it, most probably it just needed the switches cleaning.
I still have a Trio/Kenwood amp at home, a KA-660 - which is a really nice amp.
Pity Kenwood packed up
It was a KA-550, bought around 1985 with matching separate tuner, cassette deck and CD player. I was sad to see it go as it was a fine amp and would handle MM or MC turntables something you rarely see these days. The tuner is now the only one still working all the others were replaced over the years, funnily enough they started out making amatuer radios. I used the name Trio as that is what they were before rebranding as Kenwood and on the back they all said Trio, they had a very good reputation and though still going don't now make hi-fi.
Not sure what you mean by switches. The left channel on input from the phono, tape deck A and B, CD, tuner and Aux was very low and distorted even if you bypassed the tone and balance controls using the direct input source button. It only worked when playing CDs if you used the CD direct button and even then was a bit boomy on the bass which I thought was maybe the speakers but the new amp proves not.
The 550 was the smaller cheaper version of the 660, it used a hybrid IC power amplifier, rather than the 660's fully discrete one - likewise the 660 has MC/MM switching (although mines not seen a turntable for a couple of decades or so).
I've still got a KA-54 here in the workshop, that I use as a test amp, just checked - that's badged Trio as well.
The company was always Kenwood, they used the Trio name only in the UK because of the existing Kenwood food mixer brand - but they came to some arrangement (around the 550/660 era), and reverted to Kenwood in the UK as well. My 660 is labelled Kenwood, but the matching three head cassette deck I bought a few months earlier was still branded Trio
We were a major Trio/Kenwood dealer (and in fact I wrote a database program which I gave to Trio/Kenwood service which allowed dealers to search the spares database file).
The demise of Kenwood came about because they 'stabbed their dealers in the back', selling a range of audio units cheap to QVC, allowing QVC to retail them for less than the trade price dealers had to pay. A more reputable company would either have given credit to their dealers, or taken the items back - but Kenwood just said 'tough', and made excuses for their actions.
Not only that, they expected their dealer network to provide warranty service for the items sold by QVC, for the pittance they paid for warranty work.
So, most of the dealer network (including ourselves), simply closed their Kenwood accounts, leaving Kenwood with few UK dealers - not too long afterwards they ceased trading in the UK.
Incidentally the old turntable people Garrard did exactly the same thing, except they did a silly deal with Comet - result no dealers left, and went bust.
Just that there's VERY little that could be wrong, and a duff switch is the most likely cause - it's VERY, VERY unusual to ever have a preamp fault - as a preamp is under no stress.
Unfortunately I no longer have the Kenwood service manuals
Yes I recall the issue with Kenwood mixers but according to themselves it was called Trio before Kenwood.
http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/company/history/
My thoughts were a circuit board problem or a faulty connection somewhere on the left speaker output route which the CD direct button bypassed but I'm no expert and trying to find anyone to sort it would probably cost as much as a new amp.
Interesting, good to know - although it's a bit vague where and when the Kenwood name appeared? - certainly Kenwood radio amateur equipment was sold in the UK long before the audio side changed names (as the sole UK importers were local).
Even after kenwood/Trio started importing their own radio ham gear the local guys where still far better, and had better service facilities.
The 'CD direct' button does sod all really, it's more an advertising co than anything else - it doesn't affect the power amplifier at all, is simply bypasses pretty well all the preamp and tone controls, and feeds the CD player direct to the volume control, from where it goes to the power amp. My 660 has a more sensibly labelled 'tone bypass' switch which does a similar thing but for all inputs.
There's little in the preamp anyway, basically a phono-preamp (obviously only used on phono), tone controls, and a sub-sonic filter.
Repair cost shouldn't be very much, as I said it's really got to be something pretty simple - and with a service manual wouldn't take much finding. Mind you, if it turned out to be a duff switch (and not just dirty) the chances of sourcing one is unlikely.
But as you've got a replacement Technics amp, then it's not worth bothering with anyway.
There is a bit more here on wiki on hwo and when the Kenwood name came into being if you're interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenwood_Corporation
The KA550 has two bypass buttons, Direct Input Source and CD Direct. The former bypasses tone and balance circuits for all the RCA input sources including the CD. The CD Direct button does too but must also use different circuitry as it wasn't affected by the problem on the left speaker channel.
You obviously have cheaper repair men where you are but yes it is all academic as I have a new Denon amp.
I suspect the CD direct button connects the CD input directly to the volume control and hence on to the power amp stage. Thus bypassing the input selector switching. Which is possibly where the left channel problem is occurring.
I've fixed more than one bit of audio kit where a dodgy switch has caused audio drop-outs, noise or distortion (or all of the above
Not sure if amps still come with a "phono" (ie turntable" input) - which includes a pre-amp.
The other thing is you may prefer to try and find a cinema sound system with a suitable turntable input, to avoid duplicating equipment.
Out of interest, tracking weight of a stylus on a record will be as little as 1-2gms. They also have an anti-bias adjustment to prevent lateral movement of the turntable arm causing extra pressure on one side or other of the groove.
Most don't, CD effectively wiped out records decades ago - although there's been a small revival in recent years. nostalgia presumably?.
Most modern amps don't have a phono input these days, CD pretty much killed off vinyl in the mainstream market.
But if the OP shops around there are still a few new amps that have phono inputs but they are becoming rarer, and these days tend to be aimed towards the higher end enthusiast so can be expensive.
If the OP is still around, and wants a decent sounding system for a decent price consider these:
Cambridge Audio Topaz AM1 Amp:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/cambridge-audio/topaz-am1/camb-topaz-am1-blk
Cambridge Audio Azure 551P Phono Pre Amp:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/turntable-accessories/cambridge-audio/azur-551p/camb-551p-blk
Pair it with some decent speakers, these actually sound excellent on the above amp and aren't hugely expensive:
Gale 30120S Bookshelf/Standmount speakers:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/gale/3010s/gale-3010s-blk
Or these:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/wharfedale/diamond-9.0/whar-9.0-blk
That isn't really the case. e.g. Marantz, Pioneer, Teac, Onkyo, Yamaha, Cambridge and Denon all do amps with phono input all at relatively modest prices.
I've got a Rega P3 and I agree with you, they are great turntables.
Vinyl sales have been rising steadily ever year for the last few years, so I think it is more than just nostalgia.
Record Store Day boosts vinyl sales
I doubt it, sales figures are still absolutely tiny.
If it were simply nostalgia the numbers wouldn't continue to increase as they have done year on year. And whilst the numbers are still small they are significant enough for virtually every major record release to include a vinyl version now.
Vinyl sales at highest level for more than a decade
Certainly the BPI no longer see it as "retromania".
http://blog.thecurrent.org/2014/02/40-years-of-album-sales-data-in-one-handy-chart/
The top two and the very last one are the most useful.
The "vinyl revival" is strongest in the USA - can you spot it in these charts? It's that teeny tiny little sliver of green between the red and the purple on the very right hand side.
Cheers,
David.